<div dir="ltr">I absolutely hear what you are saying Seamus, and understand the reasoning and all of the work you have put into the warning label.<div><br></div><div style>Also - I don't think we should make any massive changes without looking at some data. My initial suggestion was to explore some options, for us to consider. It would also make sense to look at some data. The handful of feedback from the hackday, is simply that, a handful. It'd be good to look at how many people click on the links Seamus is referring to as well as downloads and how many people land on the page and don't download. </div>
<div style><br></div><div style>Along the lines of these questions, do we have piwik setup and working? Or is that still being fixed?<br></div><div style><br></div><div style>Another aspect to consider for when we are doing trainings is to approach the downloading of the router image step differently. Especially in the classroom setting it might make more sense to have the files ready for use (on USB or local storage), rather than being dependent on access to the commotion website. One challenge I've noticed when we've done this in Red Hook (and at hackdays) is that we then put ourselves in a situation where everyone is downloading the same file at the same time, over somewhat limited networks the users/trainees and have a generally slow experience.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>I vote - let's look at the data, decide the priority of this within the website overhaul, and think about what it means in the training context.</div><div style><br></div><div style>-Georgia</div>
<div style><br></div><div style><br></div><div style><br></div><div style><br></div><div style><br></div><div style><br></div><div style><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Seamus Tuohy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:s2e@opentechinstitute.org" target="_blank">s2e@opentechinstitute.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Commotion has been publicly advertised as a security and circumvention<br>
tool. A warning that can be disregarded, or examines Commotions security<br>
in terms of liability, or from the perspective of it simply as router<br>
firmware disregards the social realities surrounding the tool.<br>
<br>
The Commotion warning label is an intervention. It uses global standards<br>
for warning construction that were researched to cause exactly the<br>
reaction we are seeing. This includes placement, size, color, and<br>
language. Because it follows global standards users understand that it<br>
is important and read the contents.<br>
<br>
I would argue that it does in fact help a user navigate the risks since<br>
each warning is directly linked to an overview of the risk and tools<br>
that the user can use instead, or on top of commotion, in order to<br>
address risks that they are concerned about.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://commotionwireless.net/understanding-commotions-warning-label#internet" target="_blank">https://commotionwireless.net/understanding-commotions-warning-label#internet</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Wireless risks and security are very rarely understood, let alone mesh<br>
security and risks. With our placement as "circumvention technology" in<br>
the public we have a responsibility to educate any possible user on the<br>
current state of the Commotion platform for circumvention and security.<br>
<br>
Camouflaging the warning label below the fold, or in a color scheme that<br>
is not immediately understood as a warning is in my opinion dishonest.<br>
Until public opinion matches the current capabilities and safe use cases<br>
of the Commotion platform I think that this intervention is the only<br>
morally correct option. Safety should always trump style and comfort.<br>
<br>
s2e<br>
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
<br>
On 06/12/2013 02:38 PM, Ben West wrote:<br>
</div><div><div class="h5">> Along these lines of public perception, is Commotion perhaps the only<br>
> embedded router firmware out there (compared to DD-WRT, Freifunk, and other<br>
> OpenWRT derivatives) that includes such warning language on its download<br>
> page?<br>
><br>
> If so, and if those other firmware distros are likewise capable of doing<br>
> 90% to 100% of what Commotion does anyway (albeit with more user<br>
> configuration effort needed), then I also agree with Ryan. The warning is<br>
> not serving its intended purpose, and intimidating would-be users.<br>
><br>
> Boilerplate about "no warranty given or implied / no liability for damage"<br>
> should likely be adequate.<br>
><br>
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Ryan Gerety<br>
> <<a href="mailto:gerety@opentechinstitute.org">gerety@opentechinstitute.org</a>>wrote:<br>
><br>
>> I agree. I would advocate for removing it--it looks like an error--and<br>
>> also doesnt really help the user navigate the risks. I agree with Georgia<br>
>> that Commotion's often inaccurate press requires us to be proactive around<br>
>> what it cant do (also most software should), but in the end the security is<br>
>> very similar to any router firmware. In most browers the warning takes up<br>
>> most the page, so you cant even see the downloads. I think a link or<br>
>> button that says "Learn more about Security with Commotion" would be<br>
>> sufficient, and then it can say, "as with most home wireless systems, xxx."<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Jun 12, 2013, at 1:29 PM, Dan Staples wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> @Georgia: I think trying some alternative displays of the warning label on<br>
>> the download page is definitely worth trying. However, I would just as that<br>
>> you clone the page and send us links to that instead of modifying the<br>
>> actual download page until we've decided on any changes.<br>
>><br>
>> In general, I think it's better to make users feel empowered than scared.<br>
>> It's already hard enough getting folks to adopt this technology. If someone<br>
>> is concerned about their security, they will likely take note of any<br>
>> warning labels they see, even if it isn't quite the center of attention of<br>
>> the page. I think it's worth considering alterations to the page to make<br>
>> the warning label lower down and/or somewhat smaller.<br>
>><br>
>> On 06/12/2013 11:28 AM, Andrew Reynolds wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> I'm moving this discussion to the commotion-discuss list.<br>
>><br>
>> For those just joining in, the issue in question is how to present usage<br>
>> warnings related to Commotion's current capabilities[1] in a way that<br>
>> does not imply that the user has misconfigured the software.<br>
>><br>
>> On one hand, we need to be very clear about Commotion's current<br>
>> capabilities, especially given the press around the project. On the<br>
>> other hand, we don't want to give the impression that a correct<br>
>> installation has failed somehow.<br>
>><br>
</div></div>>> 1. Seehttps://<a href="http://commotionwireless.net/blog/warning-label-development-part-1" target="_blank">commotionwireless.net/blog/warning-label-development-part-1</a> andhttps://<a href="http://commotionwireless.net/blog/warning-label-development-part-2" target="_blank">commotionwireless.net/blog/warning-label-development-part-2</a><br>
<div class="im">>><br>
>> -andrew<br>
>><br>
>> On 06/12/2013 11:23 AM, Preston Rhea wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> I maintain that when the first thing someone sees upon clicking a link<br>
>> and landing is a warning - someone who isn't a l33t hacker - they will<br>
>> think they have come to some page in error, and that creates the wrong<br>
>> kind of caution. It can cause confusion and mistrust in one's ability<br>
>> to follow the documentation, instead of invite caution about the<br>
>> decision you're making to use this sofware.<br>
>><br>
</div><div class="im">>> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Georgia Bullen<<a href="mailto:georgia@opentechinstitute.org">georgia@opentechinstitute.org</a>> <<a href="mailto:georgia@opentechinstitute.org">georgia@opentechinstitute.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> I think there's a happy medium, which is maybe just a color change to the<br>
>> warning label? Or something like that? Pick one of the colors from the color<br>
>> palette?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
</div>>> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:53 AM, Seamus Tuohy <<a href="mailto:s2e@opentechinstitute.org">s2e@opentechinstitute.org</a>> <<a href="mailto:s2e@opentechinstitute.org">s2e@opentechinstitute.org</a>><br>
<div><div class="h5">>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> That means it works! Seriously though, this is the intended effect. A<br>
>> user should feel uneasy and read the warning when they are going to<br>
>> download Commotion. Users in non-risky scenarios feeling uncomfortable<br>
>> is a small price to pay for those at risk being confronted with the<br>
>> limits of this tool.<br>
>><br>
>> s2e<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 06/11/2013 04:39 PM, Preston Rhea wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Some of the feedback I got when walking folks through installation had<br>
>> to do with the "WARNING" sign on the download site:<a href="https://commotionwireless.net/download" target="_blank">https://commotionwireless.net/download</a><br>
>><br>
>> A couple of folks said that when the first thing they see after<br>
>> clicking according to the instructions<br>
>><br>
>> (<a href="https://code.commotionwireless.net/projects/commotion/wiki/Stock_Ubiquiti_Install_Guide" target="_blank">https://code.commotionwireless.net/projects/commotion/wiki/Stock_Ubiquiti_Install_Guide</a>)<br>
>> is a warning sign, they feel like they've done something wrong. When<br>
>> we discussed the purpose of the warning label, they agree that it<br>
>> should exist, but that it should be moved down below the initial fold<br>
>> of the page - but before the download links - so that it still serves<br>
>> its purpose without giving the user a feeling of having committed an<br>
>> error, or having gone somewhere dangerous.<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Preston Rhea<br>
>> Program Associate, Open Technology Institute<br>
>> New America Foundation<a href="tel:%2B1-202-570-9770" value="+12025709770">+1-202-570-9770</a><br>
>> Twitter: @prestonrhea<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Georgia Bullen<br>
>> Field Operations Technologist, Open Technology Institute<br>
>> New America Foundation<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
</div></div>>> Commotion-discuss mailing listCommotion-discuss@lists.chambana.nethttps://<a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/commotion-discuss" target="_blank">lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/commotion-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Dan Staples<br>
>><br>
>> Open Technology Institutehttps://<a href="http://commotionwireless.net" target="_blank">commotionwireless.net</a><br>
</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Commotion-discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Commotion-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Commotion-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/commotion-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/commotion-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Commotion-discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Commotion-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Commotion-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/commotion-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/commotion-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Commotion-discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Commotion-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Commotion-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
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><br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Georgia Bullen<div>Field Operations Technologist, <a href="http://oti.newamerica.net/" target="_blank">Open Technology Institute</a></div><div>New America Foundation</div>
</div>