Mike,<br>I just reset the imc-space list admin password. You should receive an email with it. <br><br>Chris<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Mike Lehman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rebelmike@earthlink.net">rebelmike@earthlink.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Chris,<br>
Just to be clear. I'm not at all questioning the need to reserve the
uber-PW. But it serves as a prime example of what can go wrong when
things are less than perfect -- as they always are in real life.<br>
<br>
It's just that anyone managing multiple lists with individual PWs is
going to to run into issues keeping it all straight sooner -- if
you're like me -- or later. Add in multiple admins or mods and
things explode exponentially. Then people start taking various
shortcuts...<br>
That's how I ended up with the uber-PW in the first place.<br>
<br>
That is what I called an admin issue. If a mod or admin has a
sitewide PW for the lists they are authorized to handle, it
automatically removes a large realm of things that can go wrong
(while also introducing a few new ones) from the human frailty zone.<br>
<br>
*** Anyway, now I need the IMC-Space PW reset, please, somehow
locked myself out rejiggering things and I'm the only one on it. ***<br>
<br>
I certainly agree that documenting things and training on mail list
basics is a great idea. Having one IMC-wide policy/protocol would be
a dream -- and probably is if we expect people to actually follow
it. <br>
<br>
However, right now I'm the last person who has time for any of that.
I'm hoping that once all the energy wasted on arguing about
structure ends with that it can be redirected to more practical and
pressing needs like these, so maybe there's a pool of interest
there...<br>
OK, I'm just kidding.<br><font color="#888888">
<br>
Mike Lehman</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 9/25/2011 1:32 PM, Chris Ritzo wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">Mike, <br>
While setting these passwords, I thought of a way we can share
these passwords between admins until some other solution is put
into place. Documenting on the IMC wiki.<br>
<br>
I've made a page on the Finance wiki section as an example: <a href="http://wiki.ucimc.org/bin/view/Finance/ListeservInformation" target="_blank">http://wiki.ucimc.org/bin/view/Finance/ListeservInformation</a><br>
<br>
Wiki topics can be restricted to be only viewable by folks in the
group, and the login and password to acecss the wiki is provided
by our central account service at <a href="http://accounts.chambana.net" target="_blank">http://accounts.chambana.net</a><br>
<br>
So in theory, as long as current list admins maintain access to
their central <a href="http://chambana.net" target="_blank">chambana.net</a> account, and the
group documents the shared admin and/or moderator passwords on the
group's wiki pages, multiple admins can share the responsibility
of admining the lists.<br>
<br>
This is a proposed solution of course, & groups should do what
works best for them.<br>
<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Chris
Ritzo <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chris.ritzo@gmail.com" target="_blank">chris.ritzo@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex">Another part of the issue here is that we
all could do a better job of passing admin information along
as people change within working groups. Tech has thankfully
done a much better job of that recently so we actually have
had knowledge/info transfer when folks move into new roles.<br>
<br>
We can certainly look into more robust listserv software, or
modifying/upgrading what we have to support the needs of the
collective. That being said, Mike, your comments in this
thread about things not working are the first tech has really
heard about lists not working or barriers to shared
administration for new people. We can help by providing new
people with information on how the current setup works and
mentor them as new moderators/admins. We need to spend the FTF
time necessary for these core issues. <br>
<br>
I'll reset the admin password for the lists you mentioned. You
and the other listed admins will receive an email with the new
password. For the forseeable future though, admins will need
to share a common list password per list. <br>
<br>
I think that keeping the master password private to IMC Tech
folks is paramount at this point. If it facilitates more
communication between members who are actively
administering/moderating lists, I think that's a good thing.
I'm sure that sharing the master list password was done out of
convenience, but it's clearly been shared too widely. I
recognize the need for individualized password and will work
on that but for security purposes we just can't be sharing the
master list password for regular list administering anymore.<br>
<br>
Maybe we need to have a Mailman list admin/moderator training?
Mike would you be willing to help with that? While it's tough
to get people in a room together sometimes, it would
facilitate current list admins communicating how to properly
admin lists and how often.<br>
<font color="#888888">
<br>
Chris</font>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 9:20 AM,
Mike Lehman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rebelmike@earthlink.net" target="_blank">rebelmike@earthlink.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Chris,<br>
No problem, except I'm going to need PWs for the
following lists:<br>
IMC-Bookkeeper<br>
IMC-Production<br>
IMC-Fundraising<br>
<br>
There are probably more, but I'll note those as
needed.<br>
<br>
How we found ourselves here is instructive. I ended
up with the uber-PW -- I suspect -- is because of
the multiple admin requests that needed to be made
to the person who gave it to me (note that I did not
ask for it.) Now, part of this is due to the list
proliferation of the early years -- a list for
everything and everything in its place. <br>
<br>
But the main reason this happened is because current
list software doesn't accommodate multiple
admins/mods who each have personalized PWs that are
useful across multiple lists. Instead, each list is
stuck with sharing a specific list PW, which has to
be coordinated among whoever is associated with each
list.<br>
<br>
I know at one time there was some discussion about
an update to the list software that could
accommodate indvidualized admin/mod PW across
multiple lists. Not sure about the status of that
now.<br>
<br>
I do know that dealing with multiple PWs that need
to be managed and disseminated across diverse groups
of people associated with each list is a PITA, even
when one has plenty of time on one's hands. I share
your concern about limiting access to the site code
and agree that this needed tightening up. Don't
mind not having it, as it's easier to direct people
to the Tech list than to actually assist them.<br>
<br>
But I fear we've left the same situation in place
that led to me ending up with that code in the first
place. Eventually, a different, better solution is
needed to the way PWs are handled. I'm sure we'll
muddle along until then, but some sort of better
solution needs to be made. We simply don't sit F2F
enough anymore to make sharing one PW really viable
in most cases, which is going to lead to a lot of
frustration and people avoiding helping with
admin/mod tasks that see them unwilling to take on
the burden of managing multiple PWs like we do now.
Then there's just a few of us to handle everything,
which is where we're stuck at now. <br>
<br>
In my own case, I'm doing my best to slip this work
to others, but that's not been happening as fast as
I'd like it to. The marginal PW management
capabilities of the current software will only slow
that further because it discourages people from
getting involved and complicates the admin/mod
experience when anyone has more than one list to
manage.<br>
<font color="#888888"> Mike</font>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/23/2011 8:10 PM, Chris Ritzo wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">Hi Mike, Andrew,<br>
<br>
I did update the master site mailman password
recently which I don't plan to disseminate
outside IMC-tech members who are actively
needed to have blanket access across all
lists. <br>
<br>
I'm happy however to set the list admin
password for any that's needed. Mike is
correct that there is one admin password per
list that is to be shared among list admins.
Here's a list of the existing lists for RFU:<br>
<br>
<table border="0" width="100%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/rfu" target="_blank"><b>RFU</b></a></td>
<td>Radio Free Urbana mail list</td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor="#dddddd">
<td><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/rfu-automation" target="_blank"><b>rfu-automation</b></a></td>
<td>rfu automation, traffic, and music</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/rfu-finance" target="_blank"><b>Rfu-finance</b></a></td>
<td>WRFU Budget/Fundraising Working
Group</td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor="#dddddd">
<td><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/rfu-membership" target="_blank"><b>rfu-membership</b></a></td>
<td>RFU Membership and Training</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/rfu-outreach" target="_blank"><b>Rfu-outreach</b></a></td>
<td>Fundraising and Outreach effort</td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor="#dddddd">
<td><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/rfu-schedule" target="_blank"><b>Rfu-schedule</b></a></td>
<td>Administrative list for WRFU
schedule working group</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/rfu-station" target="_blank"><b>Rfu-station</b></a></td>
<td>RFU Official Station Communications</td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor="#dddddd">
<td><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/rfu-tech" target="_blank"><b>rfu-tech</b></a></td>
<td>RFU Technical</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
I'll change the RFU list admin password and
any others you need. When the password is
changed, the current list admins will be
emailed the password automatically by mailman.<br>
<br>
Regarding deactivation of inactive lists, we
generally don't do anything unless the list
admins let us know to do so. <br>
If there's anything else needed just let us
know.<br>
<br>
-Chris<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote"> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011
at 6:23 PM, Mike Lehman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rebelmike@earthlink.net" target="_blank">rebelmike@earthlink.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex"> Hi Andrew,<br>
Yes, Chris updated the site-wide PW
recently. I actually don't have one
myself, although have requested the new
one, as I have roughly half-a-dozen lists
I admin and regularly have people (You!:-)
) come to me to fix things for them. I
know that they have been updating
list-specific PWs on request, but I've
been laying low and so far watching for
critical stuff hasn't yielded the need to
do that for the multiple lists I deal
with, which could get complicated.<br>
<br>
Chris,<br>
Can you advise what you want to do to help
Andrew out. I know we're probably wisely
constraining the renewed site-wide PW, but
Andrew at least needs access to RFU.<br>
<br>
Also, don't know if it's relevant, but I
think we're still stuck with a single
specific PW per list, right? If that's the
case, then we'll have to coordinate its
dissemination with RFU, which can be dicey
-- or maybe Andrew can get it and notify
those who also need to know it about the
change?<br>
Mike<br>
<br>
On 9/23/2011 4:43 PM, Dr Andrew Ó Baoill
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex"> Mike,<br>
<br>
Not sure who to contact about this, and
hoping you can throw it onward to
someone who can deal with it.<br>
<br>
In the past week or two I've been unable
to access the RFU mailing list to
administer it. It seems the master
password, which I'd been using to access
mailing list administration, has been
changed (probably not a bad thing).
However, I'm not sure of the
list-specific password I can use to log
in and moderate posts.<br>
<br>
Thanks for your help.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
Dr. Andrew Ó Baoill<br>
<a href="mailto:andrew@funferal.org" target="_blank">andrew@funferal.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
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