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That's a different problem. This change solves yahoo's problem,
but hotmail's problem is that they think *anything* coming from the
IMC mail server is spam, regardless of content.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/9/14 8:03 AM, Jay Schubert wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CANq7ZudqEuZ3z4OZRiBdaTGRxvzLAH3ZFR4OR3mPi3RA-HE9=w@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">ok. Since making this setting (mung) and manually
re-adding some hotmail users then posting to the list, I see
that hotmail address are still bouncing and their bounce scores
are incrementing, suggesting that this didn't solve the problem.
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>thanks,</div>
<div>Jay</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:21 PM, Josh
King <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jking@chambana.net" target="_blank">jking@chambana.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">To be
honest, I'm not entirely clear how wrap message works. On
further<br>
inspection, I think what they're talking about with DKIM is
just that<br>
using 'Mung From' makes DKIM possible for lists, whereas
before it<br>
really wasn't. DKIM associates a cryptographic key with a
particular<br>
domain, but given that mailinglists typically have the
'From' address be<br>
that of the original sender of the message, the DKIM key is
mismatched<br>
and so Mailman usually strips out DKIM headers. Since this
function<br>
changes the 'From' address to be the list and the 'Reply-to'
to be the<br>
original sender, DKIM should work where it usually wouldn't.
But despite<br>
their confusing wording, I don't think it's _necessary_. I
would<br>
probably try 'Mung from' first.<br>
<br>
On 05/08/2014 07:30 AM, Jay Schubert wrote:<br>
> thanks. So until that time, do you recommend *Mung
From* or *Wrap<br>
> Message* setting for/from_is_list/?<br>
<div class="">><br>
> - Jay<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 9:25 PM, Josh King <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jking@chambana.net">jking@chambana.net</a><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jking@chambana.net">jking@chambana.net</a>>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> I upgraded mailman late last night, apologies
for needing time to do a<br>
> little additional research.<br>
><br>
> The options are now permitted under General
Options in list<br>
> administration. I figure I'll leave it up to
you guys to experiment with<br>
> the settings you want for from_is_list, unless
you want me to do it,<br>
> which is fine too. Mailman seems to recommend
that we set up DKIM<br>
> signing for domains for which we enable
munging. I had been planning on<br>
> setting this up at some point anyway, but I
likely won't get to it until<br>
> at least this weekend.<br>
><br>
> On 05/06/2014 11:58 AM, Stuart Levy wrote:<br>
> > Yes, thank you, having that 2.1.16
from_is_list workaround, even<br>
> though<br>
> > imperfect, would be a great relief!<br>
> ><br>
> > And, thanks, too, for pursuing hotmail.
Blast them.<br>
> ><br>
> > On 5/6/14 9:28 AM, Josh King wrote:<br>
> >> Actually, it looks like there is a
(not as good) DMARC workaround in<br>
> >> 2.1.16. I'm going to try updating to
that in order to try it out, and<br>
> >> see if that will allow us to get
around Yahoo until 2.1.18 ends up in<br>
> >> the repositories officially.<br>
> >><br>
> >> On 05/06/2014 10:25 AM, Josh King
wrote:<br>
> >>> Thanks for tracking down this
issue. Unfortunately the newest<br>
> version<br>
> >>> of Mailman available for Debian
(even unstable) is 2.1.16. We do<br>
> have<br>
> >>> our own apt repository, though.
I'll see if I can roll an<br>
> updated dpkg,<br>
> >>> though it'll be a little risky.
It's pretty ridiculous of Yahoo<br>
> to do<br>
> >>> this.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Btw, I've applied for hotmail
delisting twice, but gotten just<br>
> >>> automated messages repeating the
nonsense about namespace mining<br>
> that<br>
> >>> shows up in the logs anyway. I'm
currently looking at whether I can<br>
> >>> switch just the mailinglists to a
different IP in our allocation to<br>
> >>> work around it.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> On Tue 06 May 2014 07:25:18 AM
EDT, Jay Schubert wrote:<br>
> >>>> I can't do the mailman
upgraded, but I will mention that BTP really<br>
> >>>> needs this fixed. We're dead
in the water with our three lists<br>
> until<br>
> >>>> this is resolved.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:56
PM, Stuart Levy<br>
> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stuartnlevy@gmail.com">stuartnlevy@gmail.com</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stuartnlevy@gmail.com">stuartnlevy@gmail.com</a>><br>
</div>
</div>
> >>>> <mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:stuartnlevy@gmail.com">stuartnlevy@gmail.com</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stuartnlevy@gmail.com">stuartnlevy@gmail.com</a>>>><br>
<div>
<div class="h5">> wrote:<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> Dear IMC Tech people,<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> I'm sorry to bother you
again, but am wondering if you can help<br>
> >>>> with this, or if I can, or
both.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> Having read last month
that Yahoo's DMARC mail trust<br>
> settings were<br>
> >>>> breaking mailing lists
including the IETF's own -<br>
> >>>><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg87153.html"
target="_blank">http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg87153.html</a><br>
> >>>> ... I wondered why it
wasn't happening here. Well, it is.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> The effect is that, when a
Yahoo user writes to an IMC mailing<br>
> >>>> list which has other Yahoo
users as non-digest recipients,<br>
> all of<br>
> >>>> them - sender and
receivers - get bounce messages. The<br>
> receivers<br>
> >>>> get fatal bounces which
immediately suspend them from the list.<br>
> >>>> This is happening now.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> There are workarounds for
this in the latest version of<br>
> Mailman,<br>
> >>>> 2.1.18, released just this
last weekend --<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> release notes here:<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2014-May/076787.html"
target="_blank">https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2014-May/076787.html</a><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> including this:<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> [...] a new Privacy
options -> Sender filters -><br>
> dmarc_moderation_action<br>
> >>>> feature which
applies to list messages where the<br>
> From: address is in a<br>
> >>>> domain which
publishes a DMARC policy of reject or<br>
> possibly quarantine.<br>
> >>>> This is a list
setting with values of Accept, Wrap<br>
> Message, Munge From, Reject or Discard.<br>
> >>>> There is a new
DEFAULT_DMARC_MODERATION_ACTION<br>
> configuration setting to set the<br>
> >>>> default for this,
and the list admin UI is not able<br>
> to set an action<br>
> >>>> which is 'less' than
the default.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> What would it take to get
Mailman 2.1.18 on the<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://chambana.net" target="_blank">chambana.net</a>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://chambana.net"
target="_blank">http://chambana.net</a>><br>
> >>>> <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://chambana.net"
target="_blank">http://chambana.net</a>> mailing
list server?<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
> >>>> IMC-Tech mailing list<br>
> >>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net">IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net">IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net</a>><br>
</div>
</div>
> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net">IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
<div class="">> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net">IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net</a>>><br>
> >>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech"
target="_blank">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech</a><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
> >>>> IMC-Tech mailing list<br>
</div>
> >>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net">IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net">IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net</a>><br>
<div class="">> >>>> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech"
target="_blank">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech</a><br>
> >>> --<br>
> >>> Josh King<br>
> >>> PGP Fingerprint: 8269 ED6F EA3B 7D78
F074 1E99 2FDA 4DA1 69AE 4999<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>>
_______________________________________________<br>
> >>> IMC-Tech mailing list<br>
> >>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net">IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net">IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net</a>><br>
> >>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech"
target="_blank">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech</a><br>
> >>><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >>
_______________________________________________<br>
> >> IMC-Tech mailing list<br>
</div>
> >> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net">IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net">IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net</a>><br>
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5">> >> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech"
target="_blank">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech</a><br>
> ><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Josh King<br>
> PGP Fingerprint: 8269 ED6F EA3B 7D78 F074 1E99
2FDA 4DA1 69AE 4999<br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
--<br>
Josh King<br>
PGP Fingerprint: 8269 ED6F EA3B 7D78 F074 1E99 2FDA 4DA1
69AE 4999<br>
<br>
</div>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
IMC-Tech mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net">IMC-Tech@lists.chambana.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech">https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech</a>
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