[IMC-US] PROPOSAL (was indymedia and google)

deva drdartist at riseup.net
Thu Jul 22 12:11:42 CDT 2004 

A couple things -

Josh suggested an idea that is similar to how things are done here in 
Portland. In Portland, there is no original content created by the 
editorial group for the center column. However, anyone, including 
someone who contributes to the editorial group can write an excellent 
newswire article which is like a feature with links etc and that then 
becomes a feature. People here believe it is an important distinction.

So Josh suggested this for the US Site. Synthesis and Analysis in the 
form of compiled articles can always happen. Create it, and post it to 
your local imc, and it is then on the US site.

The advantage of this approach is that it encourages a wider variety of 
stories, writing styles, viewpoints and opinions on what constitutes 
important news. It also keeps the focus on local sources and sites. It 
levels the ground so every local imc, with their differing views and 
interests will have a strong voice on the site.

An editorial group writing for the center column will be a very small 
number of people who will then have a rather disproportionate voice. 
Add this to the lack of ability of everyone else to post anything at 
all (without the open publishing wire) and the site has traveled far 
from the original vision of providing a forum for anyone to post news. 
I do not automatically say traveling far is a bad idea in all cases, 
but in this case I do think it is.

Ideas of what constitutes good 'journalism', or what empowers people, 
of the value of looking 'legitimate' all differ. An editorial group 
will make its decision about these things, and then other ways will 
fight to be included, or accept being excluded. The approach Josh is 
suggesting, makes it less likely to fight over editorial content and 
style, while promoting greater diversity. (which is needed)

Tribal raises a good point about the breaking news. I agree that the 
editorial group should post breaking news.

The editorial group could still add some links to syndicated features

I do not know if anyone likes the idea, but it pleases me to have a 
general guideline of only adding links to local indymedia articles and 
features. This way all added links would point towards a local imc 
site. At the same time, the editorial group could work with local 
indymedias to add other links and info to their features. This would 
promote more interaction between imc's and better collaboration and 
strengthen local imc's. I like this idea.

cheers
deva





On Jul 22, 2004, at 6:51 AM, max wrote:

> I am all in favor of getting this site up in a "least common 
> demominator"
> fashion ASAP.  but I think personally that it would be a shame if we 
> didn't
> allow for some synthesis and analysis in the form of compiled articles 
> from
> an editorial team of some kind.  I think the syndication will work 
> fine for
> now, but it is not my ideal for the site, which I think should have an
> editorial voice of its own (in addition to the syndication of course).
>
> I agree with the critique deva made regarding the uselessness of a 
> newswire
> that's not local (at least that's how I understood it).
>
> I agree with john in that it would be bad to just change the nature of 
> the
> project if that's not what was approved by new imc.
>
> but regarding the idea of having a site without a newswire but with an
> editorial voice: just because it hasn't been done before, doesn't mean 
> it
> should never happen.  I don't see the "all indy sites are either just 
> pure
> syndication or have open newswires" as having any real inherent logic 
> or
> value.  I think that this is a unique project and it will therefore 
> have a
> unique manifestation.
>
> max
>
> ---
>
>
> Quoting Tribal Scribal <valeoftheoaks at hotmail.com>:
>
>> Does this mean we're not addressing the concern i voiced last night 
>> about
>>
>> the editorial team being able to put up center column features on
>> breaking
>> news not covered by any local's?
>>
>>
>> d.o.
>>
>>
>>
>> ****************************************
>> "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and 
>> as
>> necessary in the political world as storms in the physical world."
>>
>>                               - Thomas Jefferson
>> ***************************************
>> more rebellion here:
>> http://concertobi.blogspot.com/
>>
>> ***************************************
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: john duda <john at manifestor.org>
>>> To: deva <drdartist at riseup.net>
>>> CC: imc-us at lists.cu.groogroo.com
>>> Subject: Re: [IMC-US] PROPOSAL (was indymedia and google)
>>> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:10:06 -0700
>>>
>>> ok, i fixed a bunch of stuff on:
>>>
>>> http://usimc.kicks-ass.net/en/
>>>
>>> with the basic idea being a syndication site (with featured
>>> sydicated stories)
>>>
>>> i also got rid of the somewhat funny but fairly cryptic bowling ball
>>> banner, making the top banner rotate at random.
>>>
>>> hopefully this will be in good enough shape by tomorrow or friday 
>>> that
>>> we can think about launching really soon.....
>>>
>>> john
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 04:42:34PM -0700, deva wrote:
>>>> I am in favour of this idea
>>>>
>>>> deva
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 21, 2004, at 4:03 PM, john duda wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> why don't i go ahead and set up usimc as a very basic syndication
>> site
>>>>> a la oceania.indymedia(pretty much working now except for some
>>>>> template bugs)?  in other words, no editorial features and no open
>>>>> publishing...
>>>>>
>>>>> like bht said, editors can remove things that are obviously local,
>> and
>>>>> we can also use the "startpage special" category in mir to feature
>>>>> syndicated articles of exceptional relevance.  also, editors can
>> make
>>>>> up for what the feeds don't provide by grabbing abstracts for
>> features
>>>>> from local sites that lack a detailed feed.  editors can also do
>> the
>>>>> work of sorting local features into topics, so that what we wind up
>>>>> with is an intelligible, comprehensive, categorized, archived, and
>>>>> searchable site of all us indymedia features.
>>>>>
>>>>> this way the site could be up and running as early as *tomorrow*.
>> and
>>>>> we can have the discussion about the google/open publishing issues
>>>>> after the dnc...maybe even after the rnc.
>>>>>
>>>>> my two cents,
>>>>> john
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 03:25:59PM -0700, bht wrote:
>>>>>> hey all, i have been reading the discussion over google and
>> listened
>>>>>> to it
>>>>>> at the allied media conference.  I would like to say a few words
>>>>>> about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not against people trying to get google to list indymedia
>>>>>> articles, I
>>>>>> actually think it would be great to get them up there, it would be
>>>>>> great
>>>>>> outreach and advertisement, and make all of us work a little
>> harder
>>>>>> moderating the sites :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, this discussion is turning into "how can we not be
>> indymedia
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> google yet still be indymedia enough for indymedia"...and i dont
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> like it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having said that getting google listing is great, I would also 
>>>>>> like
>> to
>>>>>> think that sticking to what indymedia is is also important, it
>> this
>>>>>> respect it is more imnportant to stay indymedia instead of
>> pandering
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> the interests of larger entities to get exposure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> THere is a gap of whether we are tactical and whther we are
>>>>>> alternatives
>>>>>> to corporate media.  I like to think that we are tactical and 
>>>>>> offer
>> a
>>>>>> community support role and should stick to our communities.  If we
>> do
>>>>>> enough outreach there the people that need to read our sites will
>> and
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> wont be cluttered with all these people that dont have the
>> interests
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> our communities at heart.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Therefore, I think it would better to stick to being indymedia and
>>>>>> not try
>>>>>> to change /enough/ to be accepted by google.  I know that it is
>> some
>>>>>> peoples heartsong for this and I guess that there isnt much I can
>> do
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> change that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the us site that is supposed to represent us imcs and
>> reflect
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> indymedia tactic.  So, personally, it would make me happy if we
>> could
>>>>>> talk
>>>>>> about how to get indymedia us finished int ime for these larger
>> events
>>>>>> that are taking place NOW.  Or we can deliberate about this for a
>>>>>> couple
>>>>>> of months.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bht
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe if the site directed people to another site set up just for
>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>> publishing with a
>>>>>>> different root address that would be enough distance to make
>> google
>>>>>>> happy.
>>>>>>> us.indmedia.org linked to us.openpublishing.org or something.
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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