[IMC-US] RE: Indymedia Newsreal Tour Grant Proposal

Fri Jun 18 17:50:32 CDT 2004

This is not a large scale philosophical issue.

The newsreal is an indymedia project and claims to abide by the 
principles of unity

I made the point that this proposal is a violation of the indymedia 
principles of unity. That is very specific.

POU #5 - The IMC Network and all local IMC collectives shall be 
not-for-profit.

What I have discovered over the past couple weeks (I was blissfully 
unaware that there are people who openly speak of making a career of 
indymedia. ), is that POU #5 has basically no meaning because of the 
widely different interpretations. It is barely useful to have it in 
there when there is no agreement over what it means.

Accordingly, portland imc has collectively decided to refine the 
definition for the portland POU which derive from the indymedia POU 
document. portland imc is adding the wording that not-for-profit means 
that nobody contributing to portland indymedia shall be paid for their 
indymedia work.

This is not just a 'philosophical' discussion. It is very pertinent to 
the health and survival of indymedia as a useful tool. That is why it 
made its way into the principles of unity in the first place. People 
recognized its importance, even if they could not fulfill its promise.

Turning indymedia into a career opportunity will mark its death.

As for the tour, it is supposed to be going to 30 cities with local 
imc's but I have seen no list, nor heard of any outreach to those local 
imc's. I assume this explains the budget for hotels in the grant.

As you say, the tour may go on regardless of what is said in this 
discussion, but whether each local imc chooses to support this tour and 
work with it is a decision each local imc will make. Having a real 
conversation about it on lists shared by these local imcs will provide 
some of the substance from which to make a decision. That is the value 
in it being talked about.

regards
deva

On Jun 17, 2004, at 4:30 PM, Chris Anderson wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Look, the large-scale philosophical questions about
> the value or evil of money, pay, or consumption are
> not going to be resolved today on this forum.  There
> are widely diverging attitudes about these questions
> within the Indymedia network itself, and they are
> probably not going to be resolved either-- nor, in my
> opinion, should they be.
>
> In my time on this and other Indymedia lists, I've
> noticed a common pattern that any ambitious projects
> are invariably greeted with a rash of very broad and
> ideologically loaded philosophical questions.
> Invariably, these questions are never answered and the
> discussion trickles off due to sheer exhaustion. Then,
> the group that had the big idea usually does what it
> wanted to do in the first place ago-- if there is
> still the time to do it. So far, the Indymedia network
> has not collapsed as a result of these decisions, the
> world has not ended, nor, for that matter, has
> capitalism been overthrown-- leading me to believe
> that all the discussion, while entertaining, doesn't
> really do much for good or for ill.
>
> Since we all know this is going to happen, can we try
> to avoid it for once? And can we please try to focus
> on the specific questions are related to this project?
> After reading all the emails, i'm not sure I really
> know what those questions actually are. Why are we
> even talking about this?
>
> all the best,
> Chris Anderson
> nyc-imc
>
>
>  --- deva <drdartist at riseup.net> wrote:
>> I am not across the board opposed to grants. It does
>> concern me when I
>> see over and over such statements as "I don't see
>> how accepting grant
>> money could do anything besides help us better
>> achieve our goals."
>>
>> Money has destroyed many an organization. It is
>> dangerous. The lack of
>> recognition of its danger makes it more dangerous.
>> Please see this and
>> step into it with caution and open eyes.
>>
>> I will make this statement as a challenge to the
>> money mindset.
>>
>> If you received $1,000,000 tomorrow, it would not
>> help you at all.
>> Money cannot build. money cannot grow life, it
>> cannot build intimacy or
>> trust. More often than not, it is used to shield
>> from the necessity of
>> building trust and intimacy because that is hard
>> work. More often than
>> not, it is a setback.
>>
>> The mind seeks for the easy route, and that means
>> money.
>>
>> Mark Burdett made the point that money is not evil,
>> that it is the love
>> of money that is. My reply is, show me the people
>> who can separate the
>> two. Show me the person who does not secretly desire
>> money, who does
>> not say I want money, who does not think that money
>> will solve any
>> important problem. Show me the person who can walk
>> away from that
>> $1,000,000 without looking back. Then I will show
>> you the person who is
>> no longer a slave to money.
>>
>> As for this issue. The problem is not the grant
>> itself, but how the
>> money from it is intended to be used. to pay people
>> to do indymedia
>> work, and for car rental and hotel costs. It is a
>> problem because the
>> grant is being applied for in the indymedia name,
>> and that name is the
>> result of countless people donating so much time and
>> energy. Then
>> someone is going to take money for themselves. This
>> is a misuse of all
>> the people who work hard for no pay who are the ones
>> who make indymedia
>> something worthwhile in the first place.
>>
>> deva
>> portland imc
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 17, 2004, at 2:54 PM, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
>>
>>>> Why not ask local IMCs for help first, instead of
>> seeking a grant?
>>>
>>> What's wrong with seeking a grant from the Funding
>> Exchange? Please
>>> explain why this is not a worthwhile course of
>> action.
>>>
>>>> Look, I have nothing personal against the people
>> working on the tour
>>>> and
>>>> FSTV... but I think this tour throws the door
>> open for people getting
>>>> paid
>>>> to work on Indymedia projects.
>>>
>>> God forbid.
>>>
>>>> By chance did anyone reading this email see the
>> "We Are Everywhere"
>>>> Tour?
>>>> If was excellent! Indymedia activists were a
>> major part of the tour!
>>>> People learned a lot about Indymedia! And, it was
>> called "We Are
>>>> Everywhere."
>>>
>>> Actually, I organized the We Are Everywhere
>> presentation in Nashville.
>>> It was a great presentation and a great example of
>> doing an
>>> educational tour primarily off of donations. Same
>> for the CrimethinInc
>>> tour. It is not, however, the only way of doing
>> things, nor should it
>>> be. Ironically I had a long discussion with Andrew
>> Stern (the
>>> photographer for We Are Everywhere) while he was
>> in town about grants
>>> and I can assure you he is a big fan of applying
>> for grant money. The
>>> Tennessee IMC has applied for several grants as
>> well, and although we
>>> have never actually received any, I don't see how
>> accepting grant
>>> money could do anything besides help us better
>> achieve our goals. Just
>>> my 2 cents.
>>>
>>> Ryan Kaldari, Tennessee IMC
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> IMC-US mailing list
>>> IMC-US at lists.cu.groogroo.com
>>>
>> http://lists.cu.groogroo.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/imc-us
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> IMC-US mailing list
>> IMC-US at lists.cu.groogroo.com
>> http://lists.cu.groogroo.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/imc-us
>>
>
>
> 		
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> _______________________________________________
> IMC-US mailing list
> IMC-US at lists.cu.groogroo.com
> http://lists.cu.groogroo.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/imc-us
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 8228 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://lists.cu.groogroo.com/mailman/archive/imc-us/attachments/20040618/ccd5855b/attachment-0001.bin