[OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] My Resignation From the Occupy CUListserv

Sat Nov 17 01:22:43 UTC 2012

" and those wearing tin-foil hats "

Colan,

Could you explain this statement ?
That is, what you mean and how it relates to Occupy organizing ?

David Johnson

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Colan Holmes 
  To: C. G. Estabrook 
  Cc: Peace-discuss List ; Ricky Baldwin ; Sarah Lazare ; OccupyCU at lists.chambana.net 
  Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 6:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] My Resignation From the Occupy CUListserv

  At this point, "email belligerence" has obviously negatively effected local anti-war efforts. Many good, dedicated people have left this listserv in the last few weeks. 

  Further, the "child-killer" in the White House certainly doesn't have anything to fear from the anti-war movement/OcCUpy, as this movement currently appears to be more concerned with being "right" and "just" than being effective at righting wrongs or realizing justice. 

  Why is OcCUpy tolerating a few blow-hards, the outright disrespectful, and those wearing tin-foil hats at the expense of being welcoming to many, many others?

  No, I'm sorry, but we cannot all get along. 

  The refrain "why can't we all just get along?" has almost always been more effective for the privileged and elite so they might derail or pacify. In an unjust society, we cannot get along with those who have something to lose unless they are willing to give it up.

  We must lead, the wealthy and privileged be damned.

  This group is in serious need of cleaning up. It may never be able to recover from the depths to which it has sunk.

  Chandler

  On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 6:02 PM, C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:

    That's a difficult argument to answer, but I still don't see how "... email belligerence ... is actively hampering local organized opposition to war."

    If that 'organized opposition' can be turned aside by an unkind word, the child-killer in the White House probably doesn't have much to fear from it. 

    --CGE

    On Nov 16, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Ricky Baldwin <rbaldwin at seiu73.org> wrote:

      Gibberish and psycho-babble.

      RB
      ________________________________________
      From: C. G. Estabrook [carl at newsfromneptune.com]
      Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 3:57 PM
      To: Ricky Baldwin
      Cc: Alex Cline; Sarah Lazare; Peace-discuss List; OccupyCU at lists.chambana.net; E. Wayne Johnson
      Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] My Resignation From the Occupy CU Listserv

      "... email belligerence ... is actively hampering local organized opposition to war"?  I don't think that's what's going on.

      I think some decent people who consider themselves "opponents of war" have a bit of a bad conscience about actively supporting the child-killer in the White House.

      They look to salve that conscience by producing a political discussion where never is heard a discouraging word, and the skies are not cloudy all day.

      On Nov 16, 2012, at 2:31 PM, Ricky Baldwin <rbaldwin at seiu73.org> wrote:

        That's preposterous.  The insults we've seen here have nothing to do with stopping war or other forms of murder, except in that this email belligerence is directed at the opponents of war and is actively hampering local organized opposition to war. Don't insult our intelligence with this self-important nonsense.

        Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

        "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:

        Does 'treating decently' mean not saying what you think because someone on the list might be offended?

        On Nov 16, 2012, at 2:11 PM, Alex Cline <rev.a.r.cline at gmail.com<mailto:rev.a.r.cline at gmail.com>> wrote:

        I'm so glad to understand that there's no need to treat each other decently because there are armed drones flying over the middle east! I would have never made that connection on my own.

        On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 11:44 AM, C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com<mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com>> wrote:
        Stuart--

        I think it's a mistake to give in to Identity Politics' taste for censorship.

        It's a mark of the (self-imposed) weakness of liberalism over the last generation, that it's given up real attempts to stop wrong things from being done - and instead turned to furious attempts to make sure wrong things aren't said. (Cf. Hedges' 'Death of the Liberal Class.')

        The local Occupy group has seemed to me particularly susceptible to this error (and it's hardly alone).

        I do trust however you won't remove Wayne from the peace lists, whatever his sins against decorum.

        Stopping taunting (if that's what it is) in a political group is no substitute for stopping murder by a president. The morning headlines show us again how much needs to be done there.

        Regards, Carl

        On Nov 15, 2012, at 11:41 PM, Stuart Levy <stuartnlevy at gmail.com<mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com>> wrote:

          Wayne,

          Look.  You can do better than this.   You're too often acting in this forum like a childish bully, taunting some of the best activists I know.   Why?

          Maybe you're testing the system.   If so, you win.  I've snapped. I am cutting you off the OccupyCU list as of now.   I trust you will find better words to say, but you can say them to other people.

          Stuart Levy
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