[OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] 9/11 inside job....

Sat Jul 27 10:26:27 UTC 2013

Here is a list of dual US/Israel citizenship people who basically drove the run-up to the Iraq War. Because of the massive attention this issue has received these people have cleansed their profiles of evidence of dual US/Israel citizenship, but they cannot deny being Jewish and having high-ranking positions in the Bush administration and advocating for war with Iraq.  Look at what Israel gained for their efforts.... Iraq is now a ally of Iran... We spent 2 trillion dollars, countless lives were lost, .....a tragedy beyond belief.
I am really curious to find out your reaction to this list...Mr. Gehrig, Mr. Baldwin and Mr Helbig ... even Carl Estabrook.

Michael Mukasey, former US Attorney General
 Mukasey also was the judge in the litigation between developer Larry Silverstein and several insurance companies arising from the destruction of the World Trade Center.
 Michael Chertoff
Former Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division, at the Justice Department; now head of Homeland Security.
 Richard Perle
One of Bush's foreign policy advisors, he is the chairman of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board
 Paul Wolfowitz
Former Deputy Defense Secretary, and member of Perle's Defense Policy Board, in the Pentagon. Wolfowitz is a close associate of Perle, and reportedly has close ties to the Israeli military. His sister lives in Israel. Wolfowitz came from the above mentioned Jewish thinktank, JINSA. Wolfowitz was the number two leader within the administration behind this Iraq war mongering 
Douglas Feith
Under Secretary of Defense and Policy Advisor at the Pentagon. He is a close associate of Perle and served as his Special Counsel. Like Perle and the others, Feith is a pro-Israel extremist, who has advocated anti-Arab policies in the past. He is closely associated with the extremist group, the Zionist Organization of America, which even attacks Jews that don't agree with its extremist views. Feith frequently speaks at ZOA conferences. Feith runs a small law firm, Feith and Zell, which only has one International office, in Israel. The majority of their legal work is representing Israeli interests. His firm's own website stated, prior to his appointment, that Feith "represents Israeli Armaments Manufacturer." Feith basically represents the Israeli War Machine. Feith also came from the Jewish thinktank JINSA. Feith, like Perle and Wolfowitz, are campaigning hard for this Israeli proxy war against Iraq.

Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
The former Defense Intelligence Agency analyst with expertise in Iranian policy issues who worked in the office of Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith and reported directly to Feith's deputy, William Luti, was sentenced January 20, 2006, "to more than 12 years in prison for giving classified information to an Israeli diplomat" and members of the pro-Israel lobbying group American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).

Franklin will "remain free while the government continues with the wider case" and his "prison time could be sharply reduced in return for his help in prosecuting" former AIPAC members Steven J. Rosen and Keith Weissman, [who] are scheduled to go on trial in April [2006]. Franklin admitted that he met periodically with Rosen and Weissman between 2002 and 2004 and discussed classified information, including information about potential attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq. Rosen and Weissman would later share what they learned with reporters and Israeli officials." (source: sourcewatch.com).

Edward Luttwak
Member of the National Security Study Group of the Department of Defence at the Pentagon. Luttwak is reportedly an Israeli citizen and has taught in Israel. He frequently writes for Israeli and pro-Israeli newspapers and journals. Luttwak is an Israeli extremist whose main theme in many of his articles is the necessity of the U.S. waging war against Iraq and Iran.

Henry Kissinger
One of many Pentagon Advisors, Kissinger sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle. For detailed information about Kissinger's evil past, read Seymour Hersch's book (Price of Power: Kissinger in the Nixon White House). Kissinger likely had a part in the Watergate crimes, Southeast Asia mass murders (Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos), Installing Chilean mass murdering dictator Pinochet, Operation Condor's mass killings in South America, and more recently served as Serbia's Ex-Dictator Slobodan Milosevic's Advisor. He consistently advocated going to war against Iraq. Kissinger is the Ariel Sharon of the U.S. Unfortunately, President Bush nominated Kissinger as chairman of the September 11 investigating commission. It's like picking a bank robber to investigate a fraud scandal. He later declined this job under enormous protests.

Dov Zakheim
Dov Zakheim is an ordained rabbi and reportedly holds Israeli citizenship. Zakheim attended Jew's College in London and became an ordained Orthodox Jewish Rabbi in 1973. He was adjunct professor at New York's Jewish Yeshiva University. Zakheim is close to the Israeli lobby.

Dov Zakheim is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and in 2000 a co-author of the Project for the New American Century's position paper, Rebuilding America's Defenses, advocating the necessity for a Pearl-Harbor-like incident to mobilize the country into war with its enemies, mostly Middle Eastern Muslim nations.

He was appointed by Bush as Pentagon Comptroller from May 4, 2001 to March 10, 2004. At that time he was unable to explain the disappearance of $1 trillion dollars. Actually, nearly three years earlier, Donald Rumsfeld announced on September 10, 2001 that an audit discovered $2.3 trillion was also missing from the Pentagon books. That story, as mentioned, was buried under 9-11's rubble. The two sums disappeared on Zakheim's watch. We can only guess where that cash went.

Despite these suspicions, on May 6, 2004, Zakheim took a lucrative position at Booz Allen Hamilton, one of the most prestigious strategy consulting firms in the world. One of its clients then was Blessed Relief, a charity said to be a front for Osama bin Laden. Booz, Allen & Hamilton then also worked closely with DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, which is the research arm of the Department of Defense.

Judicial Inc's bio of Dov tells us Zakheim is a dual Israeli/American citizen and has been tracking the halls of US government for 25 years, casting defense policy and influence on Presidents Reagan, Clinton, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. Judicial Inc points out that most of Israel's armaments were gotten thanks to him. Squads of US F-16 and F-15 were classified military surplus and sold to Israel at a fraction of their value.

Kenneth Adelman
One of many Pentagon Advisors, Adelman also sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle, and is another extremist pro-Israel advisor, who supported going to war against Iraq. Adelman frequently is a guest on Fox News, and often expresses extremist and often ridiculus anti-Arab and anti-Muslim views. Through his racism or ignorance, he actually called Arabs "anti-Semitic" on Fox News (11/28/2001), when he could have looked it up in the dictionary to find out that Arabs by definition are Semites.

I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby
Vice President Dick Cheney's ex-Chief of Staff. As chief pro-Israel Jewish advisor to Cheney, it helps explains why Cheney is so gun-ho to invade Iran. Libby is longtime associate of Wolfowitz. Libby was also a lawyer for convicted felon and Israeli spy Marc Rich, whom Clinton pardoned, in his last days as president. Libby was recently found guilty of lying to Federal investigators in the Valerie Plame affair, in which Plame, a covert CIA agent, was exposed for political revenge by the Bush administration following her husband's revelations about the lies leading to the Iraq War.

Robert Satloff
U.S. National Security Council Advisor, Satloff was the executive director of the Israeli lobby's "think tank," Washington Institute for Near East Policy. Many of the Israeli lobby's "experts" come from this front group, like Martin Indyk.

Elliott Abrams
National Security Council Advisor. He previously worked at Washington-based "Think Tank" Ethics and Public Policy Center. During the Reagan Adminstration, Abrams was the Assistant Secretary of State, handling, for the most part, Latin American affairs. He played an important role in the Iran-Contra Scandal, which involved illegally selling U.S. weapons to Iran to fight Iraq, and illegally funding the contra rebels fighting to overthrow Nicaragua's Sandinista government. He also actively deceived three congressional committees about his involvement and thereby faced felony charges based on his testimony. Abrams pled guilty in 1991 to two misdemeanors and was sentenced to a year's probation and 100 hours of community service. A year later, former President Bush (Senior) granted Abrams a full pardon. He was one of the more hawkish pro-Israel Jews in the Reagan Administration's State Department.

Marc Grossman
Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs. He was Director General of the Foreign Service and Director of Human Resources at the Department of State. Grossman is one of many of the pro-Israel Jewish officials from the Clinton Administration that Bush has promoted to higher posts.

Richard Haass
Director of Policy Planning at the State Department and Ambassador at large. He is also Director of National Security Programs and Senior Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). He was one of the more hawkish pro-Israel Jews in the first Bush (Sr) Administration who sat on the National Security Council, and who consistently advocated going to war against Iraq. Haass is also a member of the Defense Department's National Security Study Group, at the Pentagon.

Robert Zoellick
U.S. Trade Representative, a cabinet-level position. He is also one of the more hawkish pro-Israel Jews in the Bush (Jr) Administration who advocated invading Iraq and occupying a portion of the country in order to set up a Vichy-style puppet government. He consistently advocates going to war against Iran.

Ari Fleischer
Ex- White House Spokesman for the Bush (Jr) Administration. Prominent in the Jewish community, some reports state that he holds Israeli citizenship. Fleischer is closely connected to the extremist Jewish group called the Chabad Lubavitch Hasidics, who follow the Qabala, and hold very extremist and insulting views of non-Jews. Fleischer was the co-president of Chabad's Capitol Jewish Forum. He received the Young Leadership Award from the American Friends of Lubavitch in October, 2001.

James Schlesinger
One of many Pentagon Advisors, Schlesinger also sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle and is another extremist pro-Israel advisor, who supported going to war against Iraq. Schlesinger is also a commissioner of the Defense Department's National Security Study Group, at the Pentagon.

David Frum
White House speechwriter behind the "Axis of Evil" label. He lumped together all the lies and accusations against Iraq for Bush to justify the war.

Joshua Bolten
White House Deputy Chief of Staff, Bolten was previously a banker, former legislative aide, and prominent in the Jewish community.

John Bolton
Former UN Representative and Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security. Bolton is also a Senior Advisor to President Bush. Prior to this position, Bolton was Senior Vice President of the above mentioned pro-Israel thinktank, AEI. He recently (October 2002) accused Syria of having a nuclear program, so that they can attack Syria after Iraq. He must have forgotten that Israel has 400 nuclear warheads, some of which are thermonuclear weapons (according to a recent U.S. Air Force report).

David Wurmser
Special Assistant to John Bolton (above), the under-secretary for arms control and international security. Wurmser also worked at the AEI with Perle and Bolton. His wife, Meyrav Wurmser, along with Colonel Yigal Carmon, formerly of Israeli military intelligence, co-founded the Middle East Media Research Institute (Memri),a Washington-based Israeli outfit which distributes articles translated from Arabic newspapers portraying Arabs in a bad light.

Eliot Cohen
Member of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle and is another extremist pro-Israel advisor. Like Adelman, he often expresses extremist and often ridiculus anti-Arab and anti-Muslim views. More recently, he wrote an opinion article in the Wall Street Journal openly admitting his rascist hatred of Islam claiming that Islam should be the enemy, not terrorism.

Mel Sembler
President of the Export-Import Bank of the United States. A Prominent Jewish Republican and Former National Finance Chairman of the Republican National Committee. The Export-Import Bank facilitates trade relationships between U.S. businesses and foreign countries, specifically those with financial problems.

Steve Goldsmith
Senior Advisor to the President, and Bush's Jewish domestic policy advisor. He also served as liaison in the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives (White House OFBCI) within the Executive Office of the President. He was the former mayor of Indianapolis. He is also friends with Israeli Jerusalem Mayor Ehud Olmert and often visits Israel to coach mayors on privatization initiatives.

Adam Goldman
White House's Special Liaison to the Jewish Community.

Joseph Gildenhorn
Bush Campaign's Special Liaison to the Jewish Community. He was the DC finance chairman for the Bush campaign, as well as campaign coordinator, and former ambassador to Switzerland.

Christopher Gersten
Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families at HHS. Gersten was the former Executive Director of the Republican Jewish Coalition, Husband of Labor Secretary.

Mark Weinberger
Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs.

Samuel Bodman
Deputy Secretary of Commerce. He was the Chairman and CEO of Cabot Corporation in Boston, Massachusetts.

Bonnie Cohen
Under Secretary of State for Management.

Ruth Davis
Director of Foreign Service Institute, who reports to the Office of Under Secretary for Management. This Office is responsible for training all Department of State staff (including ambassadors).

Daniel Kurtzer
Ambassador to Israel.

Cliff Sobel
Ambassador to the Netherlands.

Stuart Bernstein
Ambassador to Denmark.

Nancy Brinker
Ambassador to Hungary

Frank Lavin
Ambassador to Singapore.

Ron Weiser
Ambassador to Slovakia.

Mel Sembler
Ambassador to Italy.

Martin Silverstein
Ambassador to Uruguay.

Lincoln Bloomfield
Assistant Secretary of State for Political Military Affairs.

Jay Lefkowitz
Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of the Domestic Policy Council.

Ken Melman
White House Political Director.

Brad Blakeman
White House Director of Scheduling.

________________________________
 From: Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com>
To: Roger Helbig <rwhelbig at gmail.com> 
Cc: occupycu <occupyCU at lists.chambana.net>; David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org> 
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss]  9/11 inside job....

I'm just one of the 25 -30% of the world's population that questions the official version of 9/11 and have done extensive research that leads me to believe that 9/11 was executed to usher in a new era of Islamophobia, more wars, NSA surveillance and TSA groping..  I thought by joining the local activists organizations I would be addressing social justice, but it looks like I've found something quite different.

________________________________
 From: Roger Helbig <rwhelbig at gmail.com>
To: Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com> 
Cc: David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org> 
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] 9/11 inside job....

So Stephen, you are the flat earth idiot who refuses to believe the
facts or the hundreds of first hand observations - I mistakenly
accused someone else who was replying to you of being that person and
yes, anyone who throws out the "Zionists" card is an anti-semite who
probably believes The American Free Press founded by Willis Carto.  If
you don't believe that is Neo Nazi, look at this blog and guess again!

Neo Nazi American Free Press/The Barnes Review convention
http://www.chairmanofnordwave.blogspot.com

Do you make anything off of pushing the Truthers or do you just shill
for them and not even get a cut of the action?

On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 6:51 PM, Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Amen brother,
> And that is coming from my official capacity as a bonafide, certified member
> of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monsters.  I'm not kidding... I'm
> really registered.  I think their take on the creation of the universe is
> just as valid as the hundreds of other creationist myths and no less
> provable which is a valid issue when discussing such things.
> Steve Francis
>
> ________________________________
> From: E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森 <ewj at pigsqq.org>
> To: David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org>
> Cc: Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com>;
> "peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; Ricky
> Baldwin <rbaldwin at seiu73.org>; Chris Goodrow <c_goodrow at hotmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 6:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss]
 [OccupyCU] 9/11 inside job....
>
> The radical semicaustics and holocaustics seem to have
> similar lapses in rational thought, but they dont
> claim to be rational, they thrive on contrived emotional
> responses.  They are a pitiful lot, that's for sure.
>
> Mr Gehrig protests the matter too much and too much tries
> to poison the well by playing the anti-semitism card.
>
> There is no doubt that some of the groups that constantly
> point the finger on anti-semitism are not-quite-pure evil.
> The ADL and SPLC come to mind.  I am sure that some of our
> Davids in residence on this list can name some more.
>
> For me, one thing that this whole matter and the polls point out
> most clearly is that the Amerikan people are by no means in charge
> of their destiny and are by-and-large a deluded and manipulated
> bunch of patsies, saps, and
 quasi-zombies who are
> kept in subservience to a powerful, wealthy, well-entrenched
> oligarchy.
>
> That is not a conspiracy theory.  It is a fact and
> it is a rational analysis of the present situation.
>
>
>
>
> On 07/27/13 8:12, David Gehrig wrote:
>
> Yes, and you believe a lot of other bull---- too. But that's only because of
> the fluoridated water sapping and impurifying your bodily fluids.
>
> End of discussion.
>
> @%<
>
> On Jul 26, 2013, at 6:53 PM, Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I think your afraid to watch them (2 parts)..
>
> ________________________________
> From: David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org>
> To: Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Ricky Baldwin <rbaldwin at seiu73.org>; Chris Goodrow
> <c_goodrow at hotmail.com>; "peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net"
> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; "davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net"
> <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>
> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 4:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] 9/11 inside job....
>
> Just point me to the part that specifically disproves my ironclad Dr. Who
> true facts about the Tardis evacuation. He does address that, right?
>
> Okay, done here too. Until the next time someone hawking Holocaust denial
> wanders through.
>
> @%<
>
> On Jul 26, 2013, at 6:37 PM, Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I'm actually very curious to know if Mr. Baldwin will actually watch and
> comment on John Lear's (apologize for wrong name, he is Bill Lear's son)
> videos...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaLK6XJyJcQ.  He has no political
> or financial stake in
 presenting his thoughts on this.  Again, will you
> actually watch them and also comment.
>
> ________________________________
> From: David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org>
> To: Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Ricky Baldwin <rbaldwin at seiu73.org>; Chris Goodrow
> <c_goodrow at hotmail.com>; "peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net"
> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; "davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net"
> <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>
> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 4:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] 9/11 inside job....
>
> It can easily be proven that Dr. Who whisked all three thousand victims away
> in the Tardis. I read that on the Internet somewhere, possibly from a proud
> neo-Nazi, and therefore it passes the Stephen Francis Veracity test.
> Unassailably.
>
> Now pardon me, I've got to go fluoridate some water in order to sap and
> impurity your precious bodily fluids.
>
> @%<
>
> On Jul 26, 2013, at 6:07 PM, Stephen Francis
 <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Can your engineers explain how a Boeing 757 went through only a fifteen foot
> wide whole in the Pentagon, while only damaging two windows on the second
> floor. Photos prove this beyond doubt. The building section did not collapse
> for more than a half an hour after it was struck.  There was absolutely no
> damage to the lawn.  There was no damage from massive engines...etc  on and
> on. Watch videos by Bill Lear of Learjet.  I'll say it again... but with no
> connection to polls.... Zionists murdered 3000 people on 9/11.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ricky Baldwin <rbaldwin at seiu73.org>
> To: Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com>; Chris Goodrow
> <c_goodrow at hotmail.com>; "peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net"
> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; "davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net"
> <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>; occupycu <occupyCU at lists.chambana.net>
> Sent: Friday,
 July 26, 2013 3:33 PM
> Subject: RE: [OccupyCU] 9/11 inside job....
>
> I think the question of polls is not the biggest point here.  Although
> misunderstanding things like (1) how polls work, and (2) what polls have
> indicated, are potentially symptoms of the same thinking, the most worrying
> thing in my opinion is the continued assertion of statements like this one:
>
> "It can easily be proven that Zionist's murdered 3000 people on 9/11."
> [below]
>
> The statement is obviously nonsense if referring to the World Trade Center.
> Even if it is true that "Zionist's murdered 3000 people on 9/11" -- which
> they may have done in the Occupied Palestinian Territories or somewhere, but
> I don't know it for a fact -- the remark that "It can easily be proven"
> might as well read "The flying spaghetti monster told me".  The meaning
> would seem to be
 that the statement about who killed these people is clearly
> true and convincing evidence shows it.  In reality, nothing of the kind is
> credible (like the friend of a friend who allegedly has seen fairies, or
> some other incredible thing, but never seems to show up in person with any
> proof) .
>
> There are reasons to question the US government's handling of the attacks,
> and certainly its response, and maybe to doubt the official story about what
> happened to the World Trade Center, at best.  Even those claims to undermine
> the official story, at least the ones I've seen, tend to be wildly
> exaggerated, (e.g. statements to the effect that it is "impossible" for the
> airline fuel in those planes to start a fire hot enough to bring down the
> buildings).
>
> Statements of this type are generally made by people with considerably less
> education
 and experience in the fields involved than the community of
> specialists in structural mechanics and structural engineering who have
> concluded that the buildings were not destroyed by planted explosives, but
> by a series of events triggered by the planes hitting them (e.g. Bazant,
> Zdenek P. and Mathieu Verdure. "Mechanics of Progressive Collapse: Learning
> from World Trade Center and Building Demolitions" in Journal of Engineering
> Mechanics ASCE, Volume 133, Issue 3, pp. 308–319, March 2007).
>
> But even if we agree that the official story has flaws, or were wholly
> untrue, this does nothing at all to prove any particular alternative story.
> I've seen arguments that George Bush planned it in order to start a war and
> demolish civil liberties (in the manner of the Reichstag fire of the early
> 20th century), or that Israeli agents set bombs in the building in order
 to
> draw the poor innocent US into a war against their enemies in the Muslim
> world, or oil companies such as Unocal were behind it for reasons of piping.
> Maybe it was extraterrestrials or Belgium and the Queen of England as a ploy
> to undermine US sovereignty (I haven't checked with the Larouchies).  There
> is scant evidence, as far as I know, for any of these so-called "conspiracy
> theories" -- much less than the evidence for the official story, we have to
> admit.
>
> Rational people will admit whichever way the most evidence leans, except
> MAYBE if they have personally witnessed something they can't prove - and
> even then, enough evidence ought to suggest to a rational being that he or
> she could be mistaken in what he or she believes he or she remembers.
>
> Objectors to these theories often cite "Okham's razor" -- which may appear
> as an
 appeal to unwarranted authority, but in reality the basic idea boils
> down to something a fellow birdwatcher once said to me: "What's common is
> common."  In other words, we might want to find a more interesting
> explanation, given some uncertainty or leeway, but the most likely scenario
> is generally ... you guessed it, the most likely scenario.
>
> And in this case, the most likely scenario is that the government neglected
> reports and other signs and possibilities - either through incompetence or
> misplaced priorities, or both -- and failed to take certain measures,
> INDIRECTLY allowing certain individuals to cause a great calamity in
> somewhat similar ways that have led to the terrible deaths of civilians
> around the world for decades -- in trains and train stations, bars and
> buses, etc. -- and from which the US was largely shielded until 2001. 
 Since
> it happened to us, we think it was something very special, so it must have
> special causes.  But probably not.
>
> Is the US government responsible?  Of course.  But it's responsible for its
> foreign policy for decades that led to this event (thwarting self-rule in
> numerous countries for the purposes of its own rich elites, backing terror
> states like Israel, Iran under the Shah, Iraq under Saddam at one time,
> etc.), for training terrorist guerrillas in Afghanistan and elsewhere (many
> not directly related to this incident: Nicaragua, etc.) -- and therefore for
> the horrific deaths of around 3000 of its own people who, perhaps most
> tragically, were most likely pretty ignorant of why they were dying.
>
> The US government also, naturally, promotes this sort of ignorance, about
> world affairs and the role of power in the world, and about
 what people can
> do together (e.g. the myth that Rosa Parks just decided she was too tired
> one day and sat down, etc.).
>
> And this, in my opinion, leads to the vastly more important point of how we
> effect change.  If history is any guide, very little ever happens because of
> few people had a good idea one day and decided to start meeting to discuss
> what's wrong with the world.  People have been doing this ever since beer
> became widely available, and before.  There are some very thorough studies
> of how change can be brought about and how it cannot usually happen -- e.g.
> by Frances Fox Piven and Richard Cloward (Poor People's Movements, Why
> Americans Don't Vote, Why Americans Still Don't Vote, Regulating the Poor),
> by Kate Bronfenbrenner (Organizing to Win), Fred Ross (Conquering Goliath).
>
> People will come up with all sorts of
 explanations for why people are not in
> the streets, why they don't insist on better government, and so on, (and
> some of these raise good points) but the simple fact is that people are not
> there because they have not been organized to be there.  They are not doing
> those things because they are not organized to do those things.  The people
> who run this country have one great advantage over the rest of us - far more
> important in my opinion than the fact that they are rich,  or that they
> control the media, the police, the military, the legal system -- all these
> are secondary to the more important fact that they are very well organized,
> "wall to wall" as we say in the labor movement, -- and we are mostly not.
> That is a hard pill to swallow, but swallow it we must if we are to do what
> must be done.
>
> Ricky
>
 ________________________________
> From: OccupyCU [occupycu-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Stephen
> Francis [stephenf1113 at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 5:47 AM
> To: Chris Goodrow; peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net;
> davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net; occupycu
> Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] 9/11 inside job....
>
> Chris
> Yes, I have to work harder at keeping my emotions out of my beliefs when it
> comes to public comments.  I don't post much, but have been making a private
> effort
 over the last few months to consolidate my views and prepare them for
> public consumption.
> In fact, I've embarked on an ambitious effort to learn more mathematics in
> this regard.  I was struck about a year ago by the comments by Roger Penrose
> (one of the most respected living mathematicians) on his concepts around
> 'truth'.  Just to be brief, Penrose lectures on three kinds of truths: a
> Platonic mathematical world, a mental world and a physical world (see book
> 'The Road to Reality' by Penrose.  The way axioms, theorems and postulates
> are used in mathematics is a good lesson on how to conduct one's own
> thoughts so as to keep conjecture out of the conversation.  I will be more
> careful.
> And about polls.  Yes, they are unreliable when done incorrectly, but also
> can reflect the distortions and deviations from the truth that a society
 has
> as a whole.  The American populace is one of the most duped in the world,
> especially about religion (Creationism), world politics, and Sadam
> Hussein... you name it.  Polls definitely reflect this.
> There is a vast amount of classified information that has been withheld from
> public view, including all the surveillance tapes made of the attack on the
> Pentagon on 9/11.  If these and other massive amounts of information
> concerning the Israelis, Saudi Arabians etc... was released, we would not be
> quibbling about 20,30 or 40 percent doubting the official version of 9/11.
> Cheney, Bush, Barak, Olmert and would all be in jail.
> Steve
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Chris Goodrow <c_goodrow at hotmail.com>
> To: Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com>;
> "peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>;
> "davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net" <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>
> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 8:22 PM
> Subject: RE: 9/11 inside job....
>
> 30% of US citizens doubt the official story about 9/11 ---> 30% of the
> world's population believe that zionists killed 3000 people on 9/11 --->
> inside job
>
> I
 would argue that we're not talking about a few easy steps to get from one
> to the other. Also, your use of the exaggeration is very troubling to me. If
> you're going to cite polls and change the wording to help your argument,
> then we have a serious issue which could result in credibility issues for
> what you're trying to convey. Also, as far as doubting the official story
> about 9/11, what exactly does that mean when people feel that way? I think
> there is a broad spectrum that people could fall into in doubting the
> official story. One end of that spectrum is that the government wasn't
> diligent in preventing it, which is a far cry from being responsible for it.
>
> Furthermore, do you suggest that polls equate to truth?  Here are a few
> polls you may find interesting.
>
> The Newsweek<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsweek> magazine poll "What
> America Knows," conducted Princeton Survey Research Associates
> International, regularly asks American citizens a wide range of questions
> relating to world events both past and present, and a number of more trivial
> questions of general knowledge. On five occasions the following question has
> been asked:
>
>
> "Do you think Saddam Hussein’s regime in Iraq was directly involved in
> planning, financing, or carrying out the terrorist attacks of September
> 11th, 2001?"
>
>   *  September 2003 responses: 47% Yes, 37% No, 16% not sure.
>   *  January 2004 responses: 49% Yes, 39% No, 12% not sure.
>   *  September 2004 responses: 42% Yes, 44% No, 14% not sure.
>   *  October 2004 responses: 36% Yes, 51% No, 13% not sure.
>  
 *  June 2007 responses: 41% Yes, 50% No, 9% not sure.
>
> Those are some disturbingly increasing percentages in the yes column through
> the years. What should we take from that?
>
> There was also a poll out last year that 46% of Americans believe that God
> created the human race in a single day 10,000 years ago. What's my point? My
> point is that polls certainly don't change my opinion or beliefs nor are
> they indicative of the truth.
>
> Chris Goodrow
> (217) 898-5039
>
>
> ________________________________
> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 19:36:17 -0700
> From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com
> Subject: 9/11 inside job....
> To: c_goodrow at hotmail.com; peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net;
> occupyCU at lists.chambana.net; davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net
>
> The phrase 'murdered 3000 people' is an exaggeration.  Obviously no poll
> would be worded that way.    But here's one site that I'm relying on.
> http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/international_security_bt/535.php
> 2008    Here is the relevant sentence:
> On average, 46 percent said that al Qaeda was behind the attacks while 15
> percent say the US government, seven percent
 Israel, and seven percent some
> other perpetrator. One in four said they do not know.
> Only 46% think it was al Queda... the MSM sure has a different view .... 29%
> thought it was either US/Israel/other....I'm not that far off...Anti
> Americanism and anti Israel sentiment is substantially higher now in 2013
> because of disastrous wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria...on and on...
> I'm sure if one disagreed with my premise they would interpret the data
> differently.
>
> and from an Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth promotion .... see
> THIS IS THE YEAR WE MAKE IT HAPPEN!
> In spite of the fact that the 9/11 truth message has been censored by many
> in the media, ignored by Congress and the President, and shunned by most
> academic institutions, polls still show that more than 30% of US citizens
> doubt the official story about 9/11. Let’s reach out to
 the rest!
> This is probably where I pulled the statistic from in the moment that I
> wrote the sentence.  Obviously, if you think that the official story is
> wrong, there's only a few easy steps toward calling it an inside job.
>
>
>
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>
>
> Stephen:
> or
> I would love to see some sort of documentation supporting the assertion that
> 30% of the world's population is convinced that Zionists murdered 3000
> people on 9/11. Also, I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not, but most
> holocaust deniers do not like that term and prefer to be called holocaust
> revisionists. Semantics? I don't know. It does seem that many of who you
> reference
 on your page are people who are considered holocaust deniers.
>
> David Gehrig:
>
> I don't know that I necessarily agree that a holocaust denier (revisionist)
> is anti-semitic. I mean, having a distorted view of history and being wrong
> about it does not necessarily mean that you hate or have a prejudice against
> Jewish people. While I would agree that anti-semitics are more likely to be
> holocaust deniers, I don't think that equates to all holocaust deniers being
> anti-semitic.
>
>
>
> Chris Goodrow
> (217) 898-5039
>
> I don't know that I necessarily agree that a holocaust denier (revisionist)
> is anti-semitic. I mean, having a distorted view of history and being wrong
> about it does not necessarily mean that you hate or have a prejudice against
> Jewish people. While I would agree that anti-semitics are more likely to be
>
 holocaust deniers, I don't think that equates to all holocaust deniers being
> anti-semitic.
>
>
>
> Chris Goodrow
> (217) 898-5039
>
>
> ________________________________
> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 11:57:52 -0700
> From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com<mailto:stephenf1113 at yahoo.com>
> To: david-cu at nukulele.org<mailto:david-cu at nukulele.org>
> CC:
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>;
> occupyCU at lists.chambana.net<mailto:occupyCU at lists.chambana.net>
> Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Online activism...
>
> It can easily be proven that Zionist's murdered 3000 people on 9/11.  Thirty
> percent of the world's population is convinced of this.  The tide is
> turning.  I'm not antisemitic.  I'm anti Zionist. and also not a holocaust
> denier, but a holocaust revisionist.  The world also is waking up to the
> fact that the Zionists have used the holocaust to advance their politically
> and financial ends like no others in the history of the world.  Their have
> been
 countless genocides and only the Zionists use for gain.... Period.
>
> ________________________________
> From: David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org<mailto:david-cu at nukulele.org>>
> To: Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com<mailto:stephenf1113 at yahoo.com>>
> Cc: ocCUpy
> <occupyCU at lists.chambana.net<mailto:occupyCU at lists.chambana.net>>;
> Peace-discuss List
>
 <Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>>
> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Online activism...
>
> I see your News Follow-Up site still says that "the Holocaust is the
> greatest hoax ever perpetrated on mankind" and still links to videos from
> the world's leading Holocaust deniers.
>
> Which is to say, you still have an overtly antisemitic site.
>
> @%<
>
> On Jul 25, 2013, at 9:19 AM, Stephen Francis
> <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com<mailto:stephenf1113 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> Hello all.  This post concerns the issue of whether spending a lot of time
> posting things on Facebook or local discussion lists is a productive thing
> to do in the world of social justice and activism.
> Yesterday (July 24th)a staffer at the Facebook page 'Prepare to Take America
> Back' made a link to a page of my
> websiteNewsFollowUp.com<http://newsfollowup.com/>
> http://www.newsfollowup.com/obama_body_count_obama_death_list_re-election_cia_gay.htm
> concerning a list that is known as the Obama Body Count...etc.  The link
> garnered 121 shares and 174 likes in just a few hours (see
>
 http://www.newsfollowup.com/facebook.html.)  This is quite difficult to do
> as you all know on Facebook.  Prepare to Take America Back is a right wing
> conservative page that I actually don't like, but at this point any credible
> political attack from either side of the isle on Obama is needed.  As Jimmy
> Carter recently put it: "We know longer have a functioning democracy".
> Anyway, Prepare to Take America Back Facebook has about 120,000 likes and
> 216,000 people 'talking about this'.  This is nationally substantial.  It is
> very encouraging to me that my work is seen by people in these numbers.
> NewsFollowUp.com<http://newsfollowup.com/>
> http://www.newsfollowup.com/index.html enjoys about 50,000 to 100,000 page
> views per month
 and about 10% of  NFU viewers spend almost 600 hours per
> month on the site..  But this is nothing compared to the 20 million or so
> per month that Fox News has.  ...but...  from what I can tell, the average
> Facebook post gets one or two likes/shares per post if any at all.  I
> (Facebook name Occupy Occupy) have about 4700 Facebook friends and 516
> people who 'follow' me and occasionally my posts will get shared a dozen
> times or so but usually not and many times no shares or likes.  Even someone
> like the nationally known activist Cindy Sheehan only has a couple of dozen
> shares and maybe 50-100 likes each on her posts.  My point here is that ...
> is it worth it to be spending hours and hours online posting remarks that
> only a few people see?  I think yes is the answer, but only in the context
> of you being in a sea of protesters doing
 the same thing.  Individually it
> is pretty pathetic, but social media on a world wide basis has made a huge
> difference... ie Egypt, Tunisia...etc.
> As you can see from the front page of http://www.newsfollowup.com/index.html
> my focus is on 9/11 Truth.  I just believe that this is the most important
> issue in modern times.  It is the 'head of the snake'.  There is mountains
> of proof that the Cheneys/Bushes/Zionists of the world murdered 3000 people
> on 9/11 which has ushered in the Patriot Act/NSA/TSA... etc.  2000 engineers
> and architects of the website http://www.ae911truth.org/ Architects &
> Engineers for 9/11 Truth professional prove that 3 WTC towers were
> demolished with explosives.  We need to put these people in
 jail.  Working
> on anything else is important but doesn't threaten them in any way.... they
> just keep on doing what they do.
> Anyway, I'm done.  Thanks for listening.
> Steve Francis
> NewsFollowUp.com<http://newsfollowup.com/>
>
>
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