[OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] [Discuss] [sf-core] Re: [Peace] Governor signs Israeli bill; not opposed by local Democrats

Sun Jul 26 13:09:34 EDT 2015

CE - again, please DO NOT hit REPLY ALL to include CUCPJ in this convo. BD

On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 12:04 PM, C. G. Estabrook via OccupyCU <
occupycu at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

> At my age, those suggestions represent, as Hamlet says, “a consummation
> devoutly to be wished.”
>
> "Slanders, sir; for the satirical rogue says here that old men
> have grey beards; that their faces are wrinkled; their eyes
> purging thick amber and plum-tree gum; and that they have a
> plentiful lack of wit, together with most weak hams. All which,
> sir, though I most powerfully and potently believe, yet I hold it
> not honesty to have it thus set down…”
>
> —CGE
>
>
> > On Jul 26, 2015, at 11:50 AM, Gregg Gordon via Peace-discuss <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >
> > I agree that comparing Carl to a two-year-old was unfair and belittled
> the sophistication of his argument.  I would have said 12-year-old.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sunday, July 26, 2015 10:15 AM, James Kilgore <jjincu at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I don't want to get immersed in this ideological battle but I do have
> two things to say:
> > 1. It is totally offensive and disrespectful to refer to anyone as a
> "two year old" and engage in other personal slander. This is precisely the
> kinds of vitriol we hear directed at those fighting for liberation.
> Certainly we can keep the discussion on the issues and keep away from petty
> personal attacks. As someone who has been the target of such attacks from
> the mainstream media, I am particularly irate at these kinds of comments
> from people representing a Left politics.
> >
> > 2. You have no right to state who has to be accountable to Black Lives
> Matter. That is for BLM to determine.
> >
> > In solidarity,
> > James
> >
> > James Kilgore
> > Research Scholar
> > Center for African Studies
> > University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign)
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 9:59 AM, David Green via
> Discuss-CommunityCourtwatch <
> discuss-communitycourtwatch at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> > Astrid, I've never known you to engage in any extended coherent
> discussion of anything in good faith. Perhaps you see the entire world as a
> 2-year-old.
> >
> > But of course I'm willing to publicly debate you about Israel, SB 1761,
> etc.
> >
> > Yes, the situations in South Africa and Israel/Palestine are somewhat
> different. The racist nature of SA was well understood; yet, even so, the
> US supported it, and Israel developed nuclear weapons with it and provided
> it with arms to support its murderous onslaughts against Angola and
> Mozambique in the 1980s.
> >
> > Israel is equally and in many ways more perversely racist in its
> institutional practices, but for some time has been much more central as a
> strategic asset to the US. It's on this basis that the American people, and
> Jews in particular, are supposed to exalt Israel's alleged virtues. Among
> those, of course, are an apartheid system in the occupied territories, a
> genocidal siege on Gaza with regular massacres, a thriving arms industry,
> and a body of propaganda that rivals Nazi Germany for its inventiveness
> (which is not to gainsay US propaganda).
> >
> > This is not even to mention the religious fanaticism that has been
> stoked by illegal Jewish settlement, and the moral desiccation of the
> Jewish community in our own country (and community).
> >
> > Illinois legislators were asked to except being disciplined by the
> Israel Lobby; they were asked to assure the public and the powers that be
> that there would not be a hint of dissent to the Lobby's mafia-like hold on
> the governmental discourse in our state regarding Israel's crimes (and our
> own). This is partly, of course, related to the repressive measures against
> Steven Salaita.
> >
> > These goals were achieved in a secretive, stealthy, and undemocratic
> manner in Springfield. Nevertheless, Ammons and Bennett are perfectly well
> aware of the import of their actions. And Carol's explanation to the
> Prairie Greens meeting a couple of weeks ago was utterly disingenuous.
> >
> > These are serious issues, which of course have to be avoided by those
> who engage in despicable (and, ironically, childish) personal attacks.
> >
> > David Green
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Saturday, July 25, 2015 6:06 PM, Astrid Berkson via Peace-discuss <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > the situations are entirely different, but no one has the sheer
> endurance to continue an a discussion with you when you simply repeat
> yourself ad infinitum. One thing i learned as a mother is never to engage
> in a contest of wills with a two year old because he has nothing better to
> do.
> > On 7/25/2015 5:26 PM, 'C. G. Estabrook' carl at newsfromneptune.com
> [sf-core] wrote:
> >>
> >> I take your failure to answer to be a recognition that our
> representatives should vote against apartheid, in South Africa and Israel.
> >>
> >> The legal maxim is, ‘If the facts are for you, argue the facts; if the
> law is for you, argue the law; if neither, attack opposing counsel.'
> >>
> >> > On Jul 25, 2015, at 3:03 PM, Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Not surprisingly you're missing the point. The point has nothing to
> do with South Africa, or even Israel. The point is you're a -- well,
> pompous ass is accurate enough, but too cliched. Donald Trump comes to mind
> as an apt comparison, except some people take him seriously, so I guess I'm
> at a loss. Nevertheless, that your missives are uniformly hostile and
> boorish, I can tolerate. Sometimes they even amuse me for their total lack
> of judgment and sense of scale, much the way Trump does. What does not
> amuse me is they are counterproductive to moving toward the better world
> everyone on these lists wants to see. So I wish you'd shut up, but I know
> you won't.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Saturday, July 25, 2015 12:45 PM, C. G. Estabrook <
> carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Sorry. I meant to ask, What did you think of South African apartheid?
> >> >
> >> > If the South African government had engineered a vote in its favor in
> the Illinois legislature a generation ago, what do you think your
> representatives should have done?
> >> >
> >> > The parallel isn’t exact: Israeli apartheid in the Occupied
> Territories is worse than South African apartheid ever was.
> >> >
> >> > —CGE
> >> >
> >> >> On Jul 25, 2015, at 12:24 PM, Carl G. Estabrook <
> galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> > Have you score on South African apartheid?
> >> >
> >> > Sent from my iPhone
> >> >
> >> > On Jul 25, 2015, at 11:28 AM, Gregg Gordon via Peace-discuss <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I agree with Mr. Kay. Thanks for speaking up.
> >> >
> >> > Gregg Gordon
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Friday, July 24, 2015 10:40 PM, C. G. Estabrook via Peace <
> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Would you say the same if they’d failed to vote against apartheid in
> South Africa?
> >> >
> >> > (BTW, I haven’t done a radio program in years: are you sure you’re
> listening to others’ points of view?)
> >> >
> >> > Regards, CGE
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> On Jul 24, 2015, at 10:21 PM, Bruce KAY <bruce.kay at homemail.com.au>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Mr Estabrook,
> >> >>
> >> >> You are a painfully single-issue twat. You have zero political nous.
> You fail to understand that Scott Bennett and Carol Ammons are good
> representatives of Champaign Urbana despite that they are not Green Party
> members and despite that they do not always agree with you sir, You show no
> tolerance of the compromises Carol and Scott are forced to make as working
> politicians attempting to achieve the policies they perceive as most
> important for our C-U constituency. You fail to understand, let alone
> acknowledge the cut and thrust of state politics. You try to bask in your
> former glory as a past candidate, without ever grasping the real reason why
> you never got elected. Because you are uncompromising. You pontificate on
> your radio program with obnoxious opinions, consistently displaying your
> inability to listen to others’ points of view.
> >> >>
> >> >> For the past few weeks I have desisted from commenting on your
> tirade of harassment of Carol Ammons and Scott Bennett. But you are so
> one-eyed that your opinions amount to harassment.
> >> >>
> >> >> I too favor the Green Party, and support Jill Stein for President.
> But I don’t subscribe to your brand of hateful chauvinist aggression
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Please Mr C G Estabrook, pull your head in.
> >> >>
> >> >> Nobody wants to be harangued by your diatribe of hatred.
> >> >> Bruce
> >> >> bruce.kay at homemail.com.au
> >> >> +1 217 419 9140 (in the USA)
> >> >> +61 412 213 689 (in Australia)
> >> >> Home address: 96 Murranji Street Hawker ACT Australia 2614
> >> >> Address in USA: 4018 N. Lincoln Avenue Champaign ILL USA 61822
> >> >> _________________________________
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> On Jul 24, 2015, at 20:34, C. G. Estabrook <
> carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/nora-barrows-friedman/new-illinois-law-does-not-make-bds-illegal
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The self-styled liberals from C-U, state senator Scott Bennett and
> state representative Carol Ammons, refused to vote against this bill,
> promoted by the government of Israel. The bill supports Israeli apartheid:
> they would not have refused to vote against a bill supporting South African
> apartheid a generation ago.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> —CGE
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> __._,_.___
> >> Posted by: "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
> >> Reply via web post   •       Reply to sender         •       Reply to
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> >>
> >>
> >> __,_._,___
> >
> >
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> >
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-- 
Brian Dolinar, Ph.D.
briandolinar.com
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