[Peace-discuss] Fwd: Grubacic / Eisenhower'sMistake: A Taleof an Astonishing Letter tothe Former German Chancellor / Feb 18

Fri Feb 23 13:54:16 CST 2007

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
To: "Chas. 'Mark' Bee" <c-bee1 at itg.uiuc.edu>
Cc: <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Grubacic / Eisenhower'sMistake: A Taleof 
an Astonishing Letter tothe Former German Chancellor / Feb 18

> Practically only in America (and the UK) did the propaganda line succeed 
> that the US/NATO was engaged in a humanitarian exercise, rather than a 
> minor bit of murderous imperialism.  Much of the rest of the world, 
> including those who were bombed for 80 days, easily recognized the attack 
> for the crime that it was.  The US by financial manipulation and killing, 
> and threats of more of the same, established a government that would 
> follow orders in Serbia.
>
> In the "American right" I include of course most of the Democratic party 
> in the Congress, who backed Clinton's war.  The left that opposed it was 
> mostly outside the Congress, with a few honorable exceptions.  --CGE

  Of course you do.  Misrepresenting the rest of the left is de rigueur for 
a far left demagogue.  God forbid you be unable to backpedal by claiming a 
special definition of the word 'left'.

>
>
> Chas. 'Mark' Bee wrote:
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
>> To: <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
>> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 10:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Grubacic / Eisenhower'sMistake: A 
>> Taleof an Astonishing Letter tothe Former German Chancellor / Feb 18
>>
>>
>>> The point is that a right-wing German politician admitted the truth 
>>> about that war, against the general support that it had on the European 
>>> (and American) right.
>>
>>  Yes, well, historical revisionists typically swim against the tide, as 
>> it were.  As far as support from the American right, that's just utterly 
>> delusional.  The republican party brought up resolutions against it, 
>> using the same arguments antiwar activists use against them today.  I've 
>> got one if you want it, along with quotes of many protestations from 
>> right wingers - it's quite the outrage fest.
>>
>>>  His analysis agrees with the critique offered by the left, then and 
>>> now.
>>
>>  Nope, don't think so.  Your exclusionary misrepresentation of the left, 
>> certainly.
>>
>>>  It was a fake "humanitarian intervention" -- the US commander of the 
>>> NATO forces admitted that the bombing made things worse.
>>
>>  Oddly enough, Americans are treated with reverence in the region today.
>>
>>>  But that's not the reason it was done -- as former Clinton admin 
>>> figures now admit, it was done to bring Serbia to heel.
>>
>>  Well, probably - when you take a bunch of people out of a refugee camp 
>> and kill them, based on their ethnicity, I'd say bringing someone to heel 
>> is probably a pretty good option.
>>
>>>
>>> Cf. Sudan. It was reveled just today that the USG was much more involved 
>>> in overthrowing the popular government of Somalia than they have 
>>> dmitted.  --CGE
>>
>>  You left off your cite.
>>
>>>
>>> ---- Original message ----
>>>> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 09:18:41 -0600
>>>> From: "Chas. 'Mark' Bee" <c-bee1 at itg.uiuc.edu>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Grubacic / Eisenhower's Mistake: A 
>>>> Taleof an Astonishing Letter to the Former German Chancellor / Feb 18
>>>> To: <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. G. Estabrook" 
>>>> <galliher at uiuc.edu>
>>>> To: <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 9:41 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Grubacic / Eisenhower's Mistake: A 
>>>> Taleof
>>>> an Astonishing Letter to the Former German Chancellor / Feb 18
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> An important comment, I think.  Mutatis mutandis, the parallels in
>>>>> humanitarian concern for Serbia and Sudan seem rather close to 
>>>>> me. --CGE
>>>>
>>>>  Looks to me like another product of the Kosovo historical revisionism 
>>>> that
>>>> has taken hold there since the intervention.  That the reporter is 
>>>> quoting
>>>> the American Enterprise Institute on policy, a republican lie mill, 
>>>> from a
>>>> time when the republicans were dragging Clinton over the coals on 
>>>> everything
>>>> they could, is telling.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Morton K. Brussel wrote:
>>>>>> Looking backward; a note about the war in Yugoslavia/Kosovo.---mkb
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From: *ZNet Commentaries <sysop at zmag.org <mailto:sysop at zmag.org>>
>>>>>>> *Date: *February 18, 2007 5:29:44 PM CST
>>>>>>> *To: *brussel at uiuc.edu <mailto:brussel at uiuc.edu>
>>>>>>> *Subject: **Grubacic / Eisenhower's Mistake:  A Tale of an 
>>>>>>> Astonishing
>>>>>>> Letter to the Former German Chancellor  / Feb 18*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Today's commentary:
>>>>>>> http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2007-02/18grubacic.cfm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ==================================
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ZNet Commentary
>>>>>>> Eisenhower's Mistake:  A Tale of an Astonishing Letter to the Former
>>>>>>> German Chancellor February 18, 2007
>>>>>>> By Andrej Grubacic ...
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>
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