[Peace-discuss] Re: petition period has begun for next year's D and R primaries

Thu Aug 27 12:20:48 CDT 2009

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:06 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>wrote:

Amongst those for whom identity politics have replaced class politics --
> i.e.,
> diversity (politics as etiquette) is all the more tenaciously insisted upon
> as a
> substitute for economic equality as a real political goal -- voicing such
> opinions about homosexuality becomes a "hate crime," the worst delict in
> the
> liberal decalogue.
>
> American society today seems to have a Victorian prudishness about the
> actual
> consideration of sexual morality, which is quite different from relegating
> the
> matter to the rather minor importance it deserves.
>
> But as a political matter we attribute far too much importance to it,
> ignoring
> e.g. the wisdom of Gore Vidal from long ago,
>
> "Actually, there is no such thing as a homosexual person, any more than
> there is
> such a thing as a heterosexual person. The words are adjectives describing
> sexual acts, not people ... The reason no one has yet been able to come up
> with
> a good word to describe the homosexualist (sometimes known as gay, fag,
> queer,
> etc.) is because he does not exist. The human race is divided into male and
> female. Many human beings enjoy sexual relations with their own sex, many
> don't;
> many respond to both. This plurality is the fact of our nature and not
> worth
> fretting about."  --"Sex Is Politics" (1979)

Except that Wayne, and others like him, do not believe that sexual plurality
is a "fact of our nature".  Wayne  believes - as I once did - that
homosexuality is a human choice and an abomination to God, and further that
society should "contain and extinguish" homosexuality or homosexual acts, as
he states below.  With Wayne it's not a private matter between consenting
adults and their God.

> E. Wayne Johnson wrote:

>  It's not clear to me what sort of standards for etiquette and language
>> exist
>> for blogs and the internet.
>>
>> Certainly the FCC ban on Carlin's "7 Words" doesnt apply, and one probably
>> can't write for the Rolling Stone or Wonkette without being well-versed in
>> punctuating ones remarks with a profusion of explicit calumnious
>> metaphoric.
>>
>> What bothers me most is the hypocrisy implicit in calling the expressed
>> admonitions of a group "homophobic", "wacko", and "hate-mongering".   Some
>> of
>> the so-called left liberals are the most likely to engage in intensely
>> disparaging and often obscene remarks about those who oppose their
>> immorality.  Isn't it "hate-mongering" to call someone a "hate-monger"?
>> Isn't it Wack to call someone a wacko?
>>
>> If I lived in Ms. Pulido's district, I would be likely to vote for her,
>> knowing that she understands the dangers of homosexuality and is therefore
>> more likely to favour measures that would tend to contain and extinguish
>> homosexuality rather than encourage it.
>>
>> I would guess that those who engage in homosexual behaviour and those who
>> actively condone and promote homosexual behaviour would have a similar
>> response to any opposition to their ideas regardless of what descriptive
>> colloquialism is employed.
>>
>>
>> On 8/27/2009 8:55 AM, Ricky Baldwin wrote:
>>
>>> Wayne,
>>>
>>> Are you endorsing these "fudge-packing" remarks in the original context?
>>>
>>> Ricky
>>>
>>> "Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
>>>
>>> --- On *Thu, 8/27/09, Matt Reichel /<mattreichel at hotmail.com>/* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Matt Reichel <mattreichel at hotmail.com> Subject: RE:
>>> [Peace-discuss]
>>> Re: petition period has begun for next year's D and R primaries To:
>>> ewj at pigs.ag Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net Date: Thursday, August
>>> 27,
>>> 2009, 8:03 AM
>>>
>>> Given the short time period of the special election, the fact that the
>>> Democrat was the presumed winner in the gerrymandered district, and the
>>> relative unknown nature of Pulido outside of various wacko channels,
>>> there
>>> aren't a whole lot of gold standards reporting on her. The value of the
>>> article I linked to had nothing to do with its investigative rigor, but
>>> rather with the fact that several quotes of Rosanna's were carefully laid
>>> out in succession. You only need listen to Rosanna to understand that she
>>> is an imbecile.
>>>
>>>  From what I am reading here, perhaps the Campaign for Liberty
>>>>
>>> ought be renamed the "Campaign for Liberty for Heterosexual White Men."
>>>
>>> Truly Scary Stuff.
>>>
>>> Best, Matt
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:24:09 -0500 From: ewj at pigs.ag To:
>>> mattreichel at hotmail.com CC: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net Subject:
>>> Re:
>>> [Peace-discuss] Re: petition period has begun for next year's D and R
>>> primaries
>>>
>>> Matt,
>>>
>>> Wonkette is certainly the gold standard of truth and carefully considered
>>> journalism.
>>>
>>> I am really with you on this one.  I am so disappointed that Rosanna
>>> "apologized".  I don't much go for flip-floppers. Thanks for pointing
>>> this
>>> out.  I will ask her what point of weakness led her to apologize when I
>>> see
>>> her in Du Quoin.  Hope you will be able to make it to come speak to us in
>>> Du Quoin and maybe you can see how she answers my question.
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>> On 8/26/2009 2:57 PM, Matt Reichel wrote:
>>>
>>> I merely wanted to correct your misconception about Rosanna. She couldn't
>>> be more separated from the liberty movement, which is precisely why David
>>> threw his hat into the primary.
>>>
>>> More on Rosanna:
>>> http://wonkette.com/407392/anonymous-racist-freeper-is-actually-republican-candidate-to-replace-rahm
>>>
>>>
>>> She was unveiled during the last election as the "Chicagolady" on the
>>> Free
>>> Republic website, where, among other things, she scribed "I would rather
>>> live in a meat-packing town than a fudge-packing town. Fudge-packing
>>> should
>>> be outlawed."
>>>
>>> This and other homophobic remarks were uncovered prior to her, Quigley
>>> and
>>> I being invited to speak at a gay rights forum organized by Gay Chicago
>>> magazine. She "apologized" for her remarks and went on into a tirade
>>> about
>>> how the Mexican government is intentionally exporting poverty to the
>>> United
>>>  States and how people need to rise to the defense of our homeland from
>>> these illegal immigrants.
>>>
>>> If this is the kind of politician that you support as part of the liberty
>>> movement, I would be compelled to seriously question your credentials as
>>> a
>>> "peace activist."
>>>
>>> Cheers, Matt
>>>
>>>  Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:34:24 -0500 From: ewj at pigs.ag
>>>>
>>> <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ewj@pigs.ag>
>>>
>>>> To: mattreichel at hotmail.com
>>>>
>>> <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mattreichel@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>>> CC: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com
>>>>
>>> <http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=naiman.uiuc@gmail.com>;
>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <
>>> http://us.mc306.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
>>> >
>>>
>>>  Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Re: petition period has begun
>>>>
>>> for next year's D and R primaries
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fascist in what sense?
>>>>
>>>> I dont live in her district but I'll ask Rosanna about you
>>>>
>>> and Mr. Ratowitz.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are surely a pleasant enough fellow, helping us identify
>>>> hate-mongers
>>>> like you do.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/26/2009 2:07 PM, Matt Reichel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Rosanna Pulido is not a Ron Paulista; she is a fascist, racist
>>>>> hate-monger who heads the Illinois Minuteman. I am not sure where you
>>>>> have her identified as belonging to the Ron
>>>>> Paul movement. She did show up at the July 4th Tea Party, but
>>>>> demonstrated no idea as to what it was about. She is being opposed in
>>>>> the Republican Primary by David Ratowitz, who
>>>>> is a genuine Ron Paulista, and a far superior candidate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Either one will lose to me in the general election.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best, Matt Reichel www.mattreichel.us <http://www.mattreichel.us/>
>>>>>
>>>>
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