[Peace-discuss] DN: NAACP Report Ties Tea Party to Militia and Racist Groups

Thu Oct 21 16:33:20 CDT 2010

Are you seriously suggesting that Ron Paul and his followers aren't part of the 
Teaparty movement??

Aren't you reduced to a no-true-Scotchman argument?

Look, I really wish there were a serious antiwar movement on the left of the 
Democratic party.  But there isn't.  Obama has seen to that.

If we want to oppose the war, we have to talk to other people who oppose the 
war, not wait for liberal Myrmidons to leap from the ground...

On 10/21/10 4:21 PM, Laurie Solomon wrote:
> >Make a list of anti-war Democrats - ones who are willing to vote against 
> funding the current war, for example - not just those who say "I'm against 
> war."  (Everyone is for peace - on their own terms.)
> While the point about those who merely say that they are something are often 
> only so in their own minds and on their own terms is a valid point to an 
> extent, I might point out that the same thing can be said for your assertion 
> that you are an (actual) socialist.
> Having said that, I also will not that you have just changed the nature and 
> terms of your original assertion that there are more anti-war tea-partiers 
> than there are anti-war Democrats to one that restricts the populations of 
> each heading to specific sub=populations that were never specified before.  
> You have restricted those that are considered for the purpose of  your 
> challenge to not only members of a formally organized group (e.g., the 
> Democratic Party) but to elected officials who are members of that political 
> party  and not just the ordinary membership of that political party or those 
> who identify as Democrats but are not formally members or participants in the 
> formal organization (e.g., ordinary voters who identify as Democrats but have 
> not direct affiliation with the party and its machinery except to contribut 
> money to it and vote in elections for its candidates).  Similarly you have 
> extended your population of  tea-partiers to those who are informally or 
> loosely associated with the loosely defined tea-party movement , for want of a 
> better term, as well as those who are formally members of formally organized 
> and established tea-party organizations.  Moreover, you have arbitrarily 
> assigned several formally organized groups that may have members who are part 
> of or support the tea-party movement and its members but which themselves do 
> not claim to be tea-party organizations or that all their members are 
> tea-partiers.  Futhermore, none of the formally associated people identified 
> as formal members of an established and organized tea-party organization is an 
> elected official who has actually voted against funding the current war as 
> opposed to merely saying that they are willing to or would if elected and 
> placed in a position where they were given the choice.  As far as I know, 
> neither Ron Paul or Tim Johnson claim to be tea-partiers or formally belong to 
> a organized tea-party political party or established tea-party organization.  
> They are both Republicans, as far as I know, and may have organized groups of 
> people who are their followers or they may associate or affiliate with certain 
> formal journals.
> None of this was specified in your original assertion but only now are being 
> specified.  Somehow, you have confirmed what Mort said you would do - changed 
> the nature of the assertion you made
>
>
>
> *From:* C. G. Estabrook <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 21, 2010 3:18 PM
> *To:* Brussel <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>
> *Cc:* Peace-discuss List <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] DN: NAACP Report Ties Tea Party to Militia and 
> Racist Groups
>
> Mort--
>
> Make a list of anti-war Democrats - ones who are willing to vote against 
> funding the current war, for example - not just those who say "I'm against 
> war."  (Everyone is for peace - on their own terms.)
>
> Send me your list, and I'll send you a longer one - beginning with Ron Paul's 
> and Justin Raimondo's people - of those associated with the teapartiers who 
> are against this war.
>
> I remember, from a math class long ago, that this was a way to prove the 
> existence of multiple infinities, by a process of iteration...
>
> Neither group is infinite, but they do differ in magnitude.
>
> Furthermore, the ones I refer to are organized - into Paul's R3VOLution, the 
> Libertarian party, the paleoconservatives around several journals - while 
> there is no organized Democratic party opposition to the Democratic president 
> and administration.
>
> Those of us with memories of a generation ago want to believe that there is an 
> anti-war movement on the left wing of the Democratic party.
>
> Unfortunately, no one's home.  It's been Obama's great contribution to the war 
> effort to make that so.  --CGE
>
>
> On 10/21/10 2:38 PM, Brussel wrote:
>> Karen,
>>
>> Ask Carl where he gets his data (re. his first line below). Ask where most of 
>> the funding, who are the biggest contributors, and where most of the PR for 
>> the Tea party comes from. And so what conclusion may one draw?
>>
>> Don't be surprised if he switches the subject, refuses to answer, or cannot 
>> answer, because he doesn't have reliable sources.
>>
>> --mkb
>>
>> On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:18 AM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>
>>> Come on, Karen. There are more anti-war teapartiers than anti-war Democrats.
>>>
>>> Obama's co-option of the anti-war movement meant that there is no parallel 
>>> among the Democrats to Ron Paul's movement of principled opposition to the 
>>> war, nor to that of libertarians and paleoconservatives around the website 
>>> Antiwar.com <http://Antiwar.com> or the journal /The American Conservative/.
>>>
>>> As an (actual) socialist, I deplore that fact.
>>>
>>> On 10/21/10 9:30 AM, Karen Medina wrote:
>>>> I did notice that there were very few "constitutionalists" around
>>>> before the scare tactic of "they are going to give health care to
>>>> undocumented immigrants" became popular.
>>>>
>>>> Very few of the tea-partiers are in the anti-war movement.
>>>>
>>>> All I am saying is that it is easy to count the ones that are consistent.
>>>>
>>>> With the ones that are inconsistent, it is harder to count them, but
>>>> it is easy to tell if they have read the constitution.
>>>>
>>>> -karen medina
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