[Peace-discuss] [Peace] [sf-core] Against hysteria

Wed Jan 4 23:16:28 UTC 2017

Control, partition, destruction, of Syria, is the goal of the West. US, Saudi, Qatar, England, France, Turkey, as long as regime change is achieved.

Putin cannot allow that to take place, because he knows the next step is Iran. Congress is already attempting to reverse the Obama nuclear deal, returning to the previous sanctions, Putin knows that after Iran, Russia is next. It’s the US long term game plan.

Nothing will be gained at the Geneva Peace Talks, as the West will never give up “Assad must go”. Syria’s survival unfortunately depends on the battlefield. The foreign Jihadists must go.

The Pentagon or Trump’s Advisors know that taking on Russia and China at the same time, is suicide, so I don’t see any plus for Trump, merely a tactic or strategy, that of rapprochement with Russia in order to drive a wedge between Russia and China.

Time is on China’s side so Trump’s handlers have already insisted he take on China now. Eradicating the “One China Policy” is the beginning.

Right now, we need to be vigilant in respect to the Obama Administration, as he continue’s to send troops to the MENA, and Eastern Europe as Nato continues the provocations against Russia.

Yes, once Trump is in power, we need to be very proactive in respect to not just his foreign policy, but based upon his Cabinet appointments, domestic policy. He is continuing the policies of austerity and war promoted by the Obama Administration, only now using a hammer, rather than a smile.

On Jan 4, 2017, at 14:32, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

I’m absolutely charmed that you could think so, John. It’s part of W. H. Auden’s “September 1, 1939” - on my mind from the first line of my comment to Belden.

In 'The Defence of Poetry’ (1821), Shelley claimed that "poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world.”

I admit the evidence for the claim is weak, but I’ve been reading "Childe Harold's Pilgrimage” to my new granddaughter - and now think I should switch to Shelley, viz.

“...Rise, like lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number!
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you:
Ye are many—they are few!"

("The Masque of Anarchy" is a British political poem written in 1819 by Percy Bysshe Shelley following the Peterloo Massacre of that year. In his call for freedom, it is perhaps the first modern statement of the principle of nonviolent resistance. [Wikipedia])

—CGE

On Jan 4, 2017, at 4:12 PM, John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com<mailto:jbw292002 at gmail.com>> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Belden—

Certainly it’s right to ‘criticize both sides.’ I assume you would have done so on September 1, 1939, as well.

(Those who are tempted not to, should see Nicholson Baker’s  “Human Smoke.”)

But we’re citizens of only one side and (presumably) can affect what that side does: the war in Syria exists because Obama armed jihadists.

Surely we should be calling (as AWARE does) for the withdrawal of all US troops, weapons, and bases from MENA.  Do you agree?

The poets often get there first:

Unfortunately they're never the decision-makers.  :-(

Since there's no attribution, I presume this is your own composition, Carl?  It's quite excellent!

"...As the clever hopes expire
Of a low dishonest decade
Waves of anger and fear
Circulate over the bright
And darkened lands of the earth,
Obsessing our private lives....

"I and the public know
What all schoolchildren learn,
Those to whom evil is done
Do evil in return.

"Exiled Thucydides knew
All that a speech can say
About Democracy,
And what dictators do,
The elderly rubbish they talk
To an apathetic grave;
Analysed all in his book,
The enlightenment driven away,
The habit-forming pain,
Mismanagement and grief:
We must suffer them all again.

"Into this neutral air
Where blind skyscrapers use
Their full height to proclaim
The strength of Collective Man,
Each language pours its vain
Competitive excuse:
But who can live for long
In an euphoric dream;
Out of the mirror they stare,
Imperialism’s face
And the international wrong...

"All I have is a voice
To undo the folded lie,
The romantic lie in the brain
Of the sensual man-in-the-street
And the lie of Authority
Whose buildings grope the sky:
There is no such thing as the State
And no one exists alone;
Hunger allows no choice
To the citizen or the police;
We must love one another or die…”

Regards, Carl

On Jan 4, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu<mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:

I criticize both sides Mort.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu<mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:

What do you know about the situation in Aleppo, Belden?  I suggest you look elsewhere than to the NYT and other main stream media. Perhaps even RN, horror of horrors, or Antiwar.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__antiwar.com_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=n6JRMY9MUM688yBIvRWf8CVX9HX19FWUxLXIk1iuGlk&s=0dVpldFdKRYvy4HgY55Qa-N7GNLPMNsNbEJtVuoiyFs&e=>, etc. .
Yes the Russians have interests in not having radical Islamists taking over Syria, and were called in by the only legitimate government there, even if you don’t approve of it. Meanwhile the USA, Saudi Arabia, and friends, Israel too, have been supplying weapons, intelligence(?) and funds to the so-called rebels, many/most not even Syrians—instigating the conflict there. Regime change has long been on the table by the U.S. government for Syria, part of our hegemonic outlook.
Your criticism is perverse.
On Jan 4, 2017, at 12:30 PM, 'Fields, A Belden' a-fields at illinois.edu<mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu> [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com<mailto:sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

Karl,

I find it obscene when you say that the Russian air force was in Syria "legally," justifying the hellish nightmare that it unleashed upon the people of Aleppo.  This  was a war crime of incredible magnitude.  Your " anti-war" posture is pure hypocrisy. If other in AWARE share your view, the name should be changed.  You are neither anti-war nor anti-racist.  Drop the mask.
Belden

________________________________
From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Carl G. Estabrook via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 6:48 AM
To: Debra Schrishuhn
Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net<mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?

The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.

Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.

The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next.

—CGE

On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com<mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:

Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?

That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you.

Debra

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