From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 19:49:07 2020 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 14:49:07 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] What he saw in the riots (excerpt) Message-ID: https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/07/interview-journalist-michael-tracey-riots-protests/ In terms of targets and patterns of destruction, it varies somewhat by city. Minneapolis and St. Paul are what set off the nationwide convulsion and underwent the most extreme destruction, so the patterns there may be most instructive. The initial target was the Third Police Precinct building, which Minneapolis police ultimately fled upon orders from the mayor, Jacob Frey ? allowing protesters/rioters to seize it for a time. A nearby Target store was then bombarded. But one fallacy that was often heard in the early days of the riots was that the ?targets? were merely corporate chains that could easily cover the damage. It?s plausible that the insurrectionary activists, many of whom came from out of town, did initially ?target? corporate chains to some degree. But once the chaos breaks out, it?s impossible to contain. One block away from the Third Police Precinct building, a resident named Rick told me about an Indian restaurant and a brunch restaurant that had been burned to the ground. Was the initial target some ?corporate? chain? Maybe, but it?s not as though that could be strictly adhered to as some kind of clearly delineated rioting ethos. In the Lake Street area of Minneapolis, entire blocks are boarded up and/or destroyed. Elsewhere in the region, individual parcels of land are reduced to rubble, almost without rhyme or reason. For instance, it?s not clear to me why an Ethiopian restaurant in St. Paul was subjected to an arson attack and reduced to rubble. Or why a Goodwill?s windows were smashed. It could simply be that many of the rioters were so amped-up (and probably intoxicated) that they had no ability to discern what they were going after. Elsewhere, such as the heavily black areas of cities like Chicago and Milwaukee, ?looting? broke out when there was a vacuum of municipal resources caused by the mass protests and other riot-like activity. I would distinguish this form of opportunistic ?looting? from the ideologically driven insurrectionary rioting that initially sparked the unrest. If you are a black 16-year-old and there?s no police around, and all your friends are rushing into a busted-up streetfront store to take sneakers, it?s understandable why you?d follow suit. According to residents, the ?looting? in heavily black areas like Chicago?s West Side started in earnest at apparel stores like Foot Locker and branched out from there. Police had generally stood down. In Philadelphia and the Bronx, I was told by residents that the acquired goods ended up being sold in black markets, such as the K&A (Kensington and Allegheny) intersection in Philadelphia. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Sat Aug 1 20:23:51 2020 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 20:23:51 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Chomsky on the great danger of Trump In-Reply-To: References: <2F0C1491-D5BA-4E16-B3BE-FCF70F047876@newsfromneptune.com> <22388a21-621e-4017-36ee-dd3a54e0fd55@forestfield.org> Message-ID: I?ll take Chomsky?s words and analysis, his warnings about threats to human existence. far more seriously then the chipping away of Nicholson and Green, who seems not to appreciate the truly dire threats brought forward by the present conjuncture. One can admit the desperate political situation in the U.S., not only, but foremost, Trump and his followers, but also of its Democratic party opposition. I think there is perversity in not recognizing what Chomsky emphasizes as current existential threats, criticizing issues important for many but not having the gravity of Chomsky?s views. Would a Biden election be any better than what now exists? I think the answer is yes, as much as I detest Biden and company on so many ?issues/details?. All this carping sickens sickens me. Valid points struck, perhaps, but beside the point. ?mkb On Jul 30, 2020, at 8:18 AM, David Green via Peace-discuss > wrote: Yes, I think that what Jeff says is fundamentally correct. DG On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 1:34 AM J.B. Nicholson via Peace-discuss > wrote: C. G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: > See the second and third parts of this interview (linked at end): > > https://www.democracynow.org/2020/7/24/noam_chomsky_on_trump_s_troop I'm afraid I don't agree with Chomsky in much of this interview because large portions of it came off to me as leaving out significant context and participating in Trump Derangement Syndrome. Yes, Trump is awful, but the Democrats offer nobody better because they're okay with Trump and Biden is merely a useful neolib/neocon insurance policy. Chomsky was said to have shown "massive differences" between Trump and Biden but as far as policy goes the two major corporate parties (and Trump & Biden in particular) share so much in common that it seems unrepresentative to get into what separates them as though there's enough to make a big deal out of that. When I take into consideration what is likely to be on most Americans minds during a depression and a pandemic with an upcoming election ahead, I can't concur with so much of what Chomsky or DN's Nermeen Shaikh got into here. Domestically, neither supports a UBI, jobs program, or Medicare for All (in fact, as Jimmy Dore pointed out in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv21BLO-JwI and as I've written to peace-discuss previously, it wouldn't be hard for Trump to shame the Democrats by even offering to pass Medicare for All into law knowing the Democrats will never bring such a bill to the House floor for a vote. Pelosi will see to that.). Medicare for All alone is an election winner and is massively important to Americans now. Medicare for All will only become more important as the coming weeks pass: evictions, more people losing their jobs, and the loss of whatever healthcare was tied to that job. Medicare for All didn't show up as a talking point in any of the three parts of this Chomsky interview linked from https://www.democracynow.org/2020/7/24/noam_chomsky_on_trump_s_troop and that's probably because there's nothing a Democratic Party supporter could say about Medicare for All that would make the Democrats look good. I dare say that Medicare for All for Americans is more important than traveling to Europe (a topic Chomsky does reference). The interview spends a fair bit of time on speculation around imposing martial law and canceling the elections (perhaps so they don't have to talk about far more pressing issues where no speculation is necessary like the lack of Medicare for All, lack of a national jobs program, and no UBI and that this tells us the Democrats are fine with Trump). It's worth noting that in 2016 the largest bloc of registered voters did not vote for president. So if 2020 repeats what happened in 2016 the largest bloc of registered voters might not miss a chance to participate in a presidential election they would have skipped due to loathing the two most prominent candidates and their horrid policy choices. We also get a bit of psychoanalysis -- the kind of talk we'd rightly reject coming from anyone else (and it's not clear why we should hold Chomsky to different standards) -- Chomsky said Trump is "desperate", "psychotic. He is in extreme danger of losing his position in the White House", and "psychologically incapable of losing". But there's no acknowledgement that establishment pollsters got the 2016 election wrong (and there's no price to pay for being so wrong). Hillary Clinton lost her 2nd attempt at becoming US President to a TV game show host who had no electoral history. To shift the blame she backed a now 4-year-long baseless conspiracy theory (which DN is apparently happy to echo) blaming Russia for her loss known colloquially as Russiagate. But somehow Trump's speculated "[refusal] to commit to accepting the outcome of the 2020 election" is supposed to be troubling. Would that refusal come with sanctions against Russia like Russiagate has? Sanctions hurt and kill the poor. One would think those sanctions and the harms they cause would merit mention. I'm suspicious that the main reason DN wants to interview Chomsky on this topic now is because Chomsky is saying things that are compatible with DN's neoliberalist Trump Derangement Syndrome. Around election time Chomsky seems to favor the Democrats (witness this interview and the letter Chomsky signed on to not too long ago which reached a conclusion much like 'any Blue will do'). In another part of the same overall interview -- https://www.democracynow.org/2020/7/24/man_woman_camera_person_tv_noam -- which DN titled "Noam Chomsky Responds to Trump Bragging He Aced a Dementia Test" -- nobody brought up Biden's readily-apparent mental problems (which the establishment media try to paper over by calling them "gaffes"). And his team knows it; Obama "bluntly counseled Mr. Biden to keep his speeches brief, interviews crisp and slash the length of his tweets" so as to not give Biden more opportunity to showcase his obvious mental inadequacy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmoln-XK3Gw). Recently a Biden staffer cut off Biden's interview with docile media outlet before Biden could go off-script too much further (https://youtube.com/watch?v=SaX1i4EeQRI). So I fail to see how Trump is dangerous enough to merit the single-minded mentions he gets in that DN interview; it would be far more useful to the audience to point out that Trump is all too typical a US President which means he's merely the latest leader of a line of rapacious oligarchs (quoting Dylan Ratigan). We got Trump because of what the Obama/Biden administration did. The country rejected Mrs. Clinton in part because of what we'd already seen her do as a Senator (which includes voting for authorizing invading Iraq alongside Sen. Biden who would later go on to brag that he'd make the same vote again, then when realizing that line is reading the room wholly wrongly, lie about the reason for his authorization vote). The Democrats currently give Trump what he asks for while calling Trump a traitor to the US. The Democrats & Republicans work together against our needs. The Democrats are not an opposition party. It's shameful to point out only one part of the trouble we're in with the Democrats and Republicans without the context that the other major corporate party agrees on all the major issues of the day. Joe Biden promised his wealthy campaign investors that "Nothing will fundamentally change". In that same speech he waxed fondly about "memories of working alongside segregationist senators, and telling wealthy donors they have nothing to fear from his presidency" according to establishment media outlet Vox, which continued: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/19/18690910/biden-fundraiser-controversy-segregationists-donors > [Biden] didn?t want to ?demonize? the wealthy and added that, though ?income > inequality? is a problem that must be addressed, under his presidency, ?no one?s > standard of living will change, nothing will fundamentally change.? He went on: ?I > need you very badly. I hope if I win this nomination, I won?t let you down.? Biden should be taken at his word. That's a bad promise for anyone trying to pitch the idea that Trump is "desperate" and "psychotic" in an effort to only talk about a part of the story (particularly problematic in the context of a presidential election). _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Sat Aug 1 19:06:34 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 14:06:34 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Tackling homelessness and why you can't trust the duopoly In-Reply-To: <4e5c5d9a-d653-8c8c-5816-b0a0b73923f1@forestfield.org> References: <4e5c5d9a-d653-8c8c-5816-b0a0b73923f1@forestfield.org> Message-ID: <8943ade0-2985-884e-b042-ca6fddf94a09@forestfield.org> I wrote: > Lee Camp (host of "Redacted Tonight") spoke about the coming eviction crisis in > https://invidio.us/watch?v=nsf_o0LqcvU -- as rent and eviction moratoriums end (with > no federal rent forgiveness in sight) and people lose their jobs thus making it less > likely to be able to pay back rent since March, there is a general expectation that > lots of people won't be able to pay their rent at the end of this month. Therefore > there will be lots of evictions and the homeless population will increase: More on this from Jimmy Dore in https://invidio.us/watch?v=LmvGqbayMN4 or https://youtube.com/watch?v=LmvGqbayMN4 In this segment, Jimmy Dore points to multiple articles on this topic and he puts his advice in the context of not supporting the people currently in charge in both major parties. https://www.wdsu.com/article/local-officials-brace-for-evictions-and-uptick-in-homeless-with-federal-aid-ending/33464645 > Jimmy Dore: "New Orleans officials brace for evictions and uptick in homeless with > Federal Aid ending". We're just going to kick people out in the streets in > America! That's their plan! That's Nancy Pelosi's plan, that's Donald Trump's > plan. That's Joe Biden's plan. > > [Reading from the WDSU.com article] > > Families across Louisiana are bracing for the inevitable. > > The final protection for tenants will end August 24th, and the additional Federal > Unemployment is set to end July 31st. Advertisement > > "Louisiana is one of three states in the entire country where in the next few > months it is estimated a third of our residents will not be able to make mortgage > or a house payment, said Andreanecia Morris, the Executive Director of Housing > NOLA. > > Jimmy Dore [speaking extemporaneously]: We're still in a pandemic and they're > evicting people after they closed down everyone's businesses. They didn't do this > in other countries. This isn't happening in other countries. [Where is] this > happening? The United States. Not happening in other countries, happening here. > Why? Because people keep telling you to vote for Democrats. Because people are a > bunch of fucking gutless pricks who won't do what's right; because we don't have a > government in our country that represents people and people keep telling you to > keep voting for them and then they pretend that they're progressives. They're > not. They're go-along party hacks. Anybody telling you to vote Democrat is a > goddamn go-along party hack. Because that ain't working. Do you see what's > happening? People are having to chain themselves to courtroom doors[1] because > they know what's coming and they know that [Nancy] Pelosi and Joe Biden ain't > gonna help them one goddamn bit. [1] Referring to https://nitter.net/wdsu/status/1288889594348412935 or https://twitter.com/wdsu/status/1288889594348412935 > Dore: This is what's called a 'failed state' [...] Bernie Sanders won't even > fucking scream for you right now. What Bernie Sanders is doing is telling you to > shut up and vote for Joe Biden. That's what he's doing: 'you'd be irresponsible if > you didn't vote for a guy who promises not to help you'. What every person who's in > power should be doing who cares about anyone should be making demands of the > government and saying you shouldn't vote for anybody who's not going to give you > Medicare for All. You shouldn't vote for anybody who's not going to give you a UBI > in the middle of shutting down your business. They gave $5 trillion to the richest > 1,000 people in the country and you know what they gave you? Nothing. They're > gonna kick you out of your house. That's right. And who's doing it? Nancy Pelosi. > Who's doing it? Joe Biden. Who's doing it? Donald Trump. Who's doing it? Mitch > McConnnell. It's bipartisan screwing. Then Jimmy Dore played https://invidio.us/watch?v=FqRNnIMDkUY (or https://youtube.com/watch?v=FqRNnIMDkUY) which is Lawrence O'Donnell in clip from the Ralph Nader documentary "An Unreasonable Man" > Lawrence O'Donnell: If you want to pull the party, the major party, that is > closest to the way you're thinking to what you're thinking, you must, you /must/ > show them that you're capable of not voting for them. If you don't show them > you're capable of not voting for them, they don't have to listen to you. I promise > you that. I worked within the Democratic Party. I didn't listen or have to listen > to anything on the Left while I was working in the Democratic Party because the > Left had nowhere to go. From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 20:38:26 2020 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 15:38:26 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Chomsky on the great danger of Trump In-Reply-To: References: <2F0C1491-D5BA-4E16-B3BE-FCF70F047876@newsfromneptune.com> <22388a21-621e-4017-36ee-dd3a54e0fd55@forestfield.org> Message-ID: Mort, I have no problem with Chomsky's appropriate alarmism. I do have a problem with his implying that Biden will in any serious way challenge the institutional forces that are leading us to the abyss. Nevertheless, Biden has been a centrist, consensus political creature for his entire career, which for the past 30 years has meant neoliberalism and neoconservatism. He may have the political survival instincts (in spite of basically having a lame duck, one-term presidency) to behave in a "politically rational" way regarding imminent threats perceived by the majority of the population. However, he will be beholden to economic elites (don't forget, the Democrats in the House represent 41 of the 50 most wealthy districts in the country) who will not easily shift from an emphasis on the short-terms goals of the financial class. DG DG On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 3:23 PM Brussel, Morton K wrote: > I?ll take Chomsky?s words and analysis, his warnings about threats to > human existence. far more seriously then the chipping away of Nicholson and > Green, who seems not to appreciate the truly dire threats brought forward > by the present conjuncture. One can admit the desperate political situation > in the U.S., not only, but foremost, Trump and his followers, but also of > its Democratic party opposition. I think there is perversity in not > recognizing what Chomsky emphasizes as current existential threats, > criticizing issues important for many but not having the gravity of > Chomsky?s views. > > Would a Biden election be any better than what now exists? I think the > answer is *yes*, as much as I detest Biden and company on so many > ?issues/details?. > All this carping sickens sickens me. Valid points struck, perhaps, but > beside the point. > > ?mkb > > > On Jul 30, 2020, at 8:18 AM, David Green via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > Yes, I think that what Jeff says is fundamentally correct. > > DG > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 1:34 AM J.B. Nicholson via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> C. G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: >> > See the second and third parts of this interview (linked at end): >> > >> > https://www.democracynow.org/2020/7/24/noam_chomsky_on_trump_s_troop >> >> I'm afraid I don't agree with Chomsky in much of this interview because >> large >> portions of it came off to me as leaving out significant context and >> participating in >> Trump Derangement Syndrome. Yes, Trump is awful, but the Democrats offer >> nobody >> better because they're okay with Trump and Biden is merely a useful >> neolib/neocon >> insurance policy. Chomsky was said to have shown "massive differences" >> between Trump >> and Biden but as far as policy goes the two major corporate parties (and >> Trump & >> Biden in particular) share so much in common that it seems >> unrepresentative to get >> into what separates them as though there's enough to make a big deal out >> of that. >> When I take into consideration what is likely to be on most Americans >> minds during a >> depression and a pandemic with an upcoming election ahead, I can't concur >> with so >> much of what Chomsky or DN's Nermeen Shaikh got into here. >> >> Domestically, neither supports a UBI, jobs program, or Medicare for All >> (in fact, as >> Jimmy Dore pointed out in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv21BLO-JwI >> and as I've >> written to peace-discuss previously, it wouldn't be hard for Trump to >> shame the >> Democrats by even offering to pass Medicare for All into law knowing the >> Democrats >> will never bring such a bill to the House floor for a vote. Pelosi will >> see to >> that.). Medicare for All alone is an election winner and is massively >> important to >> Americans now. Medicare for All will only become more important as the >> coming weeks >> pass: evictions, more people losing their jobs, and the loss of whatever >> healthcare >> was tied to that job. Medicare for All didn't show up as a talking point >> in any of >> the three parts of this Chomsky interview linked from >> https://www.democracynow.org/2020/7/24/noam_chomsky_on_trump_s_troop and >> that's >> probably because there's nothing a Democratic Party supporter could say >> about >> Medicare for All that would make the Democrats look good. I dare say that >> Medicare >> for All for Americans is more important than traveling to Europe (a topic >> Chomsky >> does reference). >> >> The interview spends a fair bit of time on speculation around imposing >> martial law >> and canceling the elections (perhaps so they don't have to talk about far >> more >> pressing issues where no speculation is necessary like the lack of >> Medicare for All, >> lack of a national jobs program, and no UBI and that this tells us the >> Democrats are >> fine with Trump). It's worth noting that in 2016 the largest bloc of >> registered >> voters did not vote for president. So if 2020 repeats what happened in >> 2016 the >> largest bloc of registered voters might not miss a chance to participate >> in a >> presidential election they would have skipped due to loathing the two >> most prominent >> candidates and their horrid policy choices. >> >> We also get a bit of psychoanalysis -- the kind of talk we'd rightly >> reject coming >> from anyone else (and it's not clear why we should hold Chomsky to >> different >> standards) -- Chomsky said Trump is "desperate", "psychotic. He is in >> extreme danger >> of losing his position in the White House", and "psychologically >> incapable of >> losing". But there's no acknowledgement that establishment pollsters got >> the 2016 >> election wrong (and there's no price to pay for being so wrong). Hillary >> Clinton lost >> her 2nd attempt at becoming US President to a TV game show host who had >> no electoral >> history. To shift the blame she backed a now 4-year-long baseless >> conspiracy theory >> (which DN is apparently happy to echo) blaming Russia for her loss known >> colloquially >> as Russiagate. But somehow Trump's speculated "[refusal] to commit to >> accepting the >> outcome of the 2020 election" is supposed to be troubling. Would that >> refusal come >> with sanctions against Russia like Russiagate has? Sanctions hurt and >> kill the poor. >> One would think those sanctions and the harms they cause would merit >> mention. >> >> I'm suspicious that the main reason DN wants to interview Chomsky on this >> topic now >> is because Chomsky is saying things that are compatible with DN's >> neoliberalist Trump >> Derangement Syndrome. Around election time Chomsky seems to favor the >> Democrats >> (witness this interview and the letter Chomsky signed on to not too long >> ago which >> reached a conclusion much like 'any Blue will do'). >> >> In another part of the same overall interview -- >> https://www.democracynow.org/2020/7/24/man_woman_camera_person_tv_noam >> -- which DN >> titled "Noam Chomsky Responds to Trump Bragging He Aced a Dementia Test" >> -- nobody >> brought up Biden's readily-apparent mental problems (which the >> establishment media >> try to paper over by calling them "gaffes"). And his team knows it; Obama >> "bluntly >> counseled Mr. Biden to keep his speeches brief, interviews crisp and >> slash the length >> of his tweets" so as to not give Biden more opportunity to showcase his >> obvious >> mental inadequacy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmoln-XK3Gw). >> Recently a Biden >> staffer cut off Biden's interview with docile media outlet before Biden >> could go >> off-script too much further (https://youtube.com/watch?v=SaX1i4EeQRI). >> >> So I fail to see how Trump is dangerous enough to merit the single-minded >> mentions he >> gets in that DN interview; it would be far more useful to the audience to >> point out >> that Trump is all too typical a US President which means he's merely the >> latest >> leader of a line of rapacious oligarchs (quoting Dylan Ratigan). We got >> Trump because >> of what the Obama/Biden administration did. The country rejected Mrs. >> Clinton in part >> because of what we'd already seen her do as a Senator (which includes >> voting for >> authorizing invading Iraq alongside Sen. Biden who would later go on to >> brag that >> he'd make the same vote again, then when realizing that line is reading >> the room >> wholly wrongly, lie about the reason for his authorization vote). >> >> The Democrats currently give Trump what he asks for while calling Trump a >> traitor to >> the US. The Democrats & Republicans work together against our needs. The >> Democrats >> are not an opposition party. It's shameful to point out only one part of >> the trouble >> we're in with the Democrats and Republicans without the context that the >> other major >> corporate party agrees on all the major issues of the day. >> >> Joe Biden promised his wealthy campaign investors that "Nothing will >> fundamentally >> change". In that same speech he waxed fondly about "memories of working >> alongside >> segregationist senators, and telling wealthy donors they have nothing to >> fear from >> his presidency" according to establishment media outlet Vox, which >> continued: >> >> >> https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/19/18690910/biden-fundraiser-controversy-segregationists-donors >> > [Biden] didn?t want to ?demonize? the wealthy and added that, though >> ?income >> > inequality? is a problem that must be addressed, under his presidency, >> ?no one?s >> > standard of living will change, nothing will fundamentally change.? He >> went on: ?I >> > need you very badly. I hope if I win this nomination, I won?t let you >> down.? >> Biden should be taken at his word. That's a bad promise for anyone trying >> to pitch >> the idea that Trump is "desperate" and "psychotic" in an effort to only >> talk about a >> part of the story (particularly problematic in the context of a >> presidential election). >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Sat Aug 1 21:14:08 2020 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 21:14:08 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] What he saw in the riots (excerpt) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <451362BA-44B5-4558-BFC4-3187B76F6810@illinois.edu> This seems pretty bad, but just as I am suspicious of reports from the NYT on how bad things are in Russia and China, so I am suspicious and skeptical of the reporting from The National Review. The Economist didn?t relay such a report. Did the NYT or WP report on these things? I wasn?t there, so I don?t know what transpired, but I didn?t get such views of scenes of destruction from CNN or PBS?curious. Also, I don?t know if provocateurs were involved, as well they might have been. Also, I don?t know what provocations emanated from police actions, and then federal militia actions. ?mkb On Aug 1, 2020, at 2:49 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss > wrote: https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/07/interview-journalist-michael-tracey-riots-protests/ In terms of targets and patterns of destruction, it varies somewhat by city. Minneapolis and St. Paul are what set off the nationwide convulsion and underwent the most extreme destruction, so the patterns there may be most instructive. The initial target was the Third Police Precinct building, which Minneapolis police ultimately fled upon orders from the mayor, Jacob Frey ? allowing protesters/rioters to seize it for a time. A nearby Target store was then bombarded. But one fallacy that was often heard in the early days of the riots was that the ?targets? were merely corporate chains that could easily cover the damage. It?s plausible that the insurrectionary activists, many of whom came from out of town, did initially ?target? corporate chains to some degree. But once the chaos breaks out, it?s impossible to contain. One block away from the Third Police Precinct building, a resident named Rick told me about an Indian restaurant and a brunch restaurant that had been burned to the ground. Was the initial target some ?corporate? chain? Maybe, but it?s not as though that could be strictly adhered to as some kind of clearly delineated rioting ethos. In the Lake Street area of Minneapolis, entire blocks are boarded up and/or destroyed. Elsewhere in the region, individual parcels of land are reduced to rubble, almost without rhyme or reason. For instance, it?s not clear to me why an Ethiopian restaurant in St. Paul was subjected to an arson attack and reduced to rubble. Or why a Goodwill?s windows were smashed. It could simply be that many of the rioters were so amped-up (and probably intoxicated) that they had no ability to discern what they were going after. Elsewhere, such as the heavily black areas of cities like Chicago and Milwaukee, ?looting? broke out when there was a vacuum of municipal resources caused by the mass protests and other riot-like activity. I would distinguish this form of opportunistic ?looting? from the ideologically driven insurrectionary rioting that initially sparked the unrest. If you are a black 16-year-old and there?s no police around, and all your friends are rushing into a busted-up streetfront store to take sneakers, it?s understandable why you?d follow suit. According to residents, the ?looting? in heavily black areas like Chicago?s West Side started in earnest at apparel stores like Foot Locker and branched out from there. Police had generally stood down. In Philadelphia and the Bronx, I was told by residents that the acquired goods ended up being sold in black markets, such as the K&A (Kensington and Allegheny) intersection in Philadelphia. _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 21:51:36 2020 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 16:51:36 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] What he saw in the riots (excerpt) In-Reply-To: <451362BA-44B5-4558-BFC4-3187B76F6810@illinois.edu> References: <451362BA-44B5-4558-BFC4-3187B76F6810@illinois.edu> Message-ID: Michael Tracey is *not *a National Review pundit. He is an honest, well-informed independent journalist with a sterling track record, including regarding Russiagate. He is supported by his Patreon contributors, of which I am one. I think it's well worth it to give $5 per month to the only journalist telling the truth about what's going on as a result of Antifa/anarchist destruction following the death of George Floyd. He publishes his reports in various journals, some of which are "conservative." For example, he and Angela Nagle published a post-mortem of the Bernie Sanders campaign at American Affairs: https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2020/05/first-as-tragedy-then-as-farce/ He has travelled across the country in his car to report from various cities: https://medium.com/@mtracey/two-months-since-the-riots-and-still-no-national-conversation-12a7e3e4e006 He puts up a lot of stuff on both youtube and twitter; his interviews with local residents as he drives around the country are often revealing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n7_E2xBtbg Beyond his current work, he has questioned transgender doctrines, among other things; of course he has been vilified by the Woke Left. Regarding much of the devastation that was caused in Minneapolis, it's pretty clear that it was not "provoked" by the police or other state forces. Tracey, in general, feels that the main destruction has been by "multi-racial" (mostly white) anarchists, etc., often from out of state which has been followed by local vandalism by the black population. I know the "outside agitator" claim sounds suspicious in light of the 1960s, but that appears to be the case, given that cars from other states have different license plates. For his trouble, Tracey is routinely vilified and threatened on twitter. Nevertheless, he is literally the only one doing this kind of work. Mort, I'm not sure why you're surprised that NPR etc. are not doing this sort of work. The reason they don't do it is that they are opposed to Donald Trump, and don't want to do anything to facilitate his re-election. It's not surprising, historically, as you know, that there would be a media blackout on unpleasant truths. What we have with the "BLM" responses to the death of George Floyd, as Tracey has documented, is a violent and quasi-religious paroxysm. Tracey has documented the latter aspect of it as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUz3dKdeHrQ&t=101s Tracey also points out the obvious hypocrisy of the "left" justifying protests during a pandemic, while not affording the same dispensation to Trump supporters. This exaltation of the antifa/anarchist "left" is absolutely misplaced. Black Lives Matter has been a political travesty since the day of it's invention. DG On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 4:14 PM Brussel, Morton K wrote: > This seems pretty bad, but just as I am suspicious of reports from the NYT > on how bad things are in Russia and China, so I am suspicious and skeptical > of the reporting from The National Review. The Economist didn?t relay such > a report. Did the NYT or WP report on these things? > I wasn?t there, so I don?t know what transpired, but I didn?t get such > views of scenes of destruction from CNN or PBS?curious. Also, I don?t know > if provocateurs were involved, as well they might have been. Also, I don?t > know what provocations emanated from police actions, and then federal > militia actions. > > ?mkb > > On Aug 1, 2020, at 2:49 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > > https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/07/interview-journalist-michael-tracey-riots-protests/ > > > In terms of targets and patterns of destruction, it varies somewhat by > city. Minneapolis and St. Paul are what set off the nationwide convulsion > and underwent the most extreme destruction, so the patterns there may be > most instructive. The initial target was the Third Police Precinct > building, which Minneapolis police ultimately fled upon orders from the > mayor, Jacob Frey ? allowing protesters/rioters to seize it for a time. A > nearby Target store was then bombarded. But one fallacy that was often > heard in the early days of the riots was that the ?targets? were merely > corporate chains that could easily cover the damage. It?s plausible that > the insurrectionary activists, many of whom came from out of town, did > initially ?target? corporate chains to some degree. But once the chaos > breaks out, it?s impossible to contain. > > One block away from the Third Police Precinct building, a resident named > Rick told me about an Indian restaurant and a brunch restaurant that had > been burned to the ground. Was the initial target some ?corporate? chain? > Maybe, but it?s not as though that could be strictly adhered to as some > kind of clearly delineated rioting ethos. In the Lake Street area of > Minneapolis, entire blocks are boarded up and/or destroyed. Elsewhere in > the region, individual parcels of land are reduced to rubble, almost > without rhyme or reason. For instance, it?s not clear to me why an > Ethiopian restaurant in St. Paul was subjected to an arson attack and > reduced to rubble. Or why a Goodwill?s windows were smashed. It could > simply be that many of the rioters were so amped-up (and probably > intoxicated) that they had no ability to discern what they were going after. > > Elsewhere, such as the heavily black areas of cities like Chicago and > Milwaukee, ?looting? broke out when there was a vacuum of municipal > resources caused by the mass protests and other riot-like activity. I would > distinguish this form of opportunistic ?looting? from the ideologically > driven insurrectionary rioting that initially sparked the unrest. If you > are a black 16-year-old and there?s no police around, and all your friends > are rushing into a busted-up streetfront store to take sneakers, it?s > understandable why you?d follow suit. According to residents, the ?looting? > in heavily black areas like Chicago?s West Side started in earnest at > apparel stores like Foot Locker and branched out from there. Police had > generally stood down. In Philadelphia and the Bronx, I was told by > residents that the acquired goods ended up being sold in black markets, > such as the K&A (Kensington and Allegheny) intersection in Philadelphia. > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Sun Aug 2 02:51:20 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 21:51:20 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Chomsky on the great danger of Trump In-Reply-To: References: <2F0C1491-D5BA-4E16-B3BE-FCF70F047876@newsfromneptune.com> <22388a21-621e-4017-36ee-dd3a54e0fd55@forestfield.org> Message-ID: <5e110e74-cdd1-e0b3-78b5-6bd1e5d67683@forestfield.org> David Green wrote: > Mort, I have no problem with Chomsky's appropriate alarmism. I do have a > problem with his implying that Biden will in any serious way challenge the > institutional forces that are leading us to the abyss. I concur with what David said. I'll add a few notes, none of which are in objection to what David said. Today's establishment-friendly review of Biden reminds me of the light-touch criticism Hillary Clinton received 4 years ago (and from some of the same people). There's no clear and detailed coverage of his political record in establishment media which includes DN. And like Hillary Clinton's political history, doesn't bear close scrutiny for her supporters. Problems with Biden are waved away as if one of the two major party candidates simply must be deemed better than the other. I think that these DN Chomsky interviews are very much about stumping for the Democrats ahead of election time. I think climate change and nuclear war are very important. But I don't think that these issues will be the way voters pick whether to vote or whom to vote for. As I understand it, voters are far more likely to make an election decision based on their immediate financial situation. So I won't be surprised if we see a repeat of what happened in 2016 -- the largest bloc of registered voters didn't vote for US President, likely out of disgust with both major party candidates. I find it telling and sad that Medicare for All and Universal Basic Income don't come up at all in the 6 parts of that Chomsky interview posted so far. These two policies strike me as practical, majoritarian-support approaches to help the poor avoid the immiseration they're facing or will likely face soon. But anyone endorsing Biden can't bring up these policy choices without highlighting how awful the Democrats are for basically refusing Medicare for All 3 times in recent history (when Democrats had both houses of Congress & the presidency under Obama with HR676, and now with 2 bills Congress apparently refuses to bring to the floor now). From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 03:02:03 2020 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 22:02:03 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Chomsky on the great danger of Trump In-Reply-To: <5e110e74-cdd1-e0b3-78b5-6bd1e5d67683@forestfield.org> References: <2F0C1491-D5BA-4E16-B3BE-FCF70F047876@newsfromneptune.com> <22388a21-621e-4017-36ee-dd3a54e0fd55@forestfield.org> <5e110e74-cdd1-e0b3-78b5-6bd1e5d67683@forestfield.org> Message-ID: If the Congress had agreed on a generous maintenance package in order to keep people home and suppress the virus, that would have resounded to Trump's credit, depending on the politics behind it's passage. It's important politically for Trump not to get credit for a successful recovery. At some level the Dems likely understand that. But in lieu of that they can blame non-compliant Trump voters while supporting BLM protests. And of course Trump's stupidity has made things easy for them. On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 9:51 PM J.B. Nicholson via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > David Green wrote: > > Mort, I have no problem with Chomsky's appropriate alarmism. I do have a > > problem with his implying that Biden will in any serious way challenge > the > > institutional forces that are leading us to the abyss. > > I concur with what David said. I'll add a few notes, none of which are in > objection > to what David said. > > Today's establishment-friendly review of Biden reminds me of the > light-touch > criticism Hillary Clinton received 4 years ago (and from some of the same > people). > There's no clear and detailed coverage of his political record in > establishment media > which includes DN. And like Hillary Clinton's political history, doesn't > bear close > scrutiny for her supporters. Problems with Biden are waved away as if one > of the two > major party candidates simply must be deemed better than the other. > > I think that these DN Chomsky interviews are very much about stumping for > the > Democrats ahead of election time. I think climate change and nuclear war > are very > important. But I don't think that these issues will be the way voters pick > whether to > vote or whom to vote for. As I understand it, voters are far more likely > to make an > election decision based on their immediate financial situation. So I won't > be > surprised if we see a repeat of what happened in 2016 -- the largest bloc > of > registered voters didn't vote for US President, likely out of disgust with > both major > party candidates. > > I find it telling and sad that Medicare for All and Universal Basic Income > don't come > up at all in the 6 parts of that Chomsky interview posted so far. These > two policies > strike me as practical, majoritarian-support approaches to help the poor > avoid the > immiseration they're facing or will likely face soon. But anyone endorsing > Biden > can't bring up these policy choices without highlighting how awful the > Democrats are > for basically refusing Medicare for All 3 times in recent history (when > Democrats had > both houses of Congress & the presidency under Obama with HR676, and now > with 2 bills > Congress apparently refuses to bring to the floor now). > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Sun Aug 2 03:43:03 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 22:43:03 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Reflections on a recent Greenwald interview about BLM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2bd909fd-673b-0085-32aa-79c9c6770608@forestfield.org> Brussel, Morton K wrote: > The BLM ?movement", which arouses such fervent antagonism by David, has had worthy > manifestations throughout the country, and elsewhere. I have not seen the evidence > that they were financed/supported by Soros and/or specific groups. There were all > kinds of participants in the protests, aroused by the killing of George Floyd. > David seems to relegate the protests to a false issue; i.e., by ignoring willfully > the crucial class and revolutionary issues. It?s as if the mass protests were bad, > i.e., counterproductive. But they did reveal the pernicious actions of the present > system and the Trump government, viz Portland. I was watching Glenn Greenwald's latest interview (https://youtube.com/watch?v=I_2CVBN4mlo) which is with Andray Domise (described as "definitely a militant supporter of [Black Lives Matter]" at 2m40s). I think this interview eventually gets into something relevant to this discussion: BLM co-optation. I think this ends up backing up David Green's criticism of BLM (particularly when he wrote that "[BLM's] analysis is preposterous, with no material component whatsoever."). I think that Greenwald is too generous to Domise in trying to find a nice way to say that BLM needed to have announced what they stood for a while ago. I'm hesitant to recommend this video for running during either AWARE on the Air or News from Neptune because it's too long for what little value the interview has. The video is worth seeing for about 15 minutes worth of BLM critique starting around 23 minutes in, and for the talk after about 1 hour in. Here's some more detail on my take on BLM based on what I saw in this interview. I'll try to hit the highlights because, frankly, this interview felt to me like quite a slog to go through. I still don't know what BLM stands for even after watching this talk. BLM's choices strike me as indistinguishable from ethics-washing neoliberalism (I'm not sure what the right term is here, but I think of "ethics-washing" for neoliberal interests to be akin to what the term "greenwashing" means for businesses that operate in anti-environmental ways). I'm all for cops not killing people, but there has to be a plan of action to make that come about. It can't just be a vision with implementation detail left unsaid which is what gives me the impression the practical, challenging-police-policy part is left out. And what's left (painting slogans on signs, floors, streets, and the phrase "defund the police") seem to me to be distractions. It's not clear to me how Domise holds the views he does and is still a "militant supporter of BLM". I doubt even he could give the 10-point list of demands he said BLM might need. Domise said, "I don't even know where a [Black Lives Matter] manifesto would begin...they [Black Lives Matter] have on their website their policy goals, their ideology -- everything is already there" which doesn't address how little any goals are seen in the protests on the street, what the adversely affected need now, and that goals without clear strategy reads as lofty ideas with no implementation details. Domise claims that BLM doesn't want to put effort into making "specific and cogent demands" because the media won't accurately echo BLM's demands. He claims this repeats an experience he had with his speaking to people at Occupy Wall St.: > Domise: When I spoke to people at Occupy, they made a pretty convincing case to me > that, well, yes: it would be a lot easier for people to digest at home if we had a > crisp and tight set of demands. But then the question is, are those demands going > to be good enough? Are they [the media] actually going to repeat what we say on > the evening news? Even the things that we have been saying that we say right in > front of news cameras when we're being interviewed. They're getting, let's say, > like two-second snippets out of everything that we've just said and they're > describing us as being not only leaderless but pointless as well. And I kind of > got that; there is going to be that obscurantist mode that media takes that even > when you've done the work of making these very specific and very cogent demands > they're still going to make it seem like disorganized movement of the disaffected > and apathetic anyway. So I kind of get that. I found this to be a very revealing quote because to me it says that BLM's organizers haven't yet learned that in life you can only control what you do, not what other people do. You're always better off explaining what you stand for as clearly as you can (even revising it later as you learn more or are better at explaining what's in your head). By the same token, this is why I find that the best evidence against BLM's choices are found on their own website: there they have full control over their own message. No other media gets in the way of passing their message on to us. Yet there I find nothing specific, actionable, and cogent. Real-world needs such as Medicare for All, rent forgiveness/control/strikes, a universal basic income, guaranteed housing, and a national jobs program are all class concerns that speak to what we urgently need (now more than ever) yet go unaddressed on BLM's website. Community control over police is a good idea but going about getting that is difficult, even after the recent police murders. Later Domise said: > Domise: I don't think you're ever going to be able to stop the process of > recuperation and co-optation regardless. You know, four years ago I don't know > that we would have seen corporations tweeting out and saying on instagram, or > putting in hashtags, "Black Lives Matter". But does that matter anyway? That > itself is the process of capitalist recuperation: that is, willing to say the > thing that you want to hear because it's going to adapt, it's going to organize > itself in such a fashion that it's going to tamp out resistance to itself. So when > corporations are tweeting out "Black Lives Matter" but then continuing practices > as status quo they're still lobbying the federal government for money, they're > still lobbying to keep the minimum wage low, they're still stamping out unions > does that actually make any difference? And I don't know that words are going to > be enough. I think it's going to be specific actions to limit the power of > corporations, to get money out of politics, to give more power to people [...] I found this revealing too. Here are some points that came to mind during this section of the interview: - One problem with BLM is framing this in terms of "stop[ping] the process [of co-optation]" instead of asking why BLM's name is so easily co-opted by the establishment. Domise asked "does that [co-optation] matter anyway?": Yes, if those are BLM goals being minimized or rendered toothless in the co-optation. Domise said "I don't know that words are going to be enough". Words are enough to indicate what side BLM is on. If BLM had published a series of clear, specific, and actionable statements on its own website detailing what needs to be done and how to reach those goals, perhaps it would be much more difficult to co-opt what BLM was saying. For example, I occasionally hear BLM activists advocate for raising the minimum wage but the action on that comes from other activists that don't have any visible connection to BLM. I see nothing on BLM's website actionably describing steps to raise the minimum wage, create more (presumably worker-run) unions, or organizing people to lobby their Congresspeople to not give big businesses more money (ala CARES Act largesse). Domise's framing helps BLM to try to make the task of being specific and actionable seem insurmountable or unnecessary, even unwise. And the results from when BLM began and now appear to be that there will be no serious policy changes in police behavior. Without serious police policy change and proof of compliance with the new policy, it seems fair to ask what BLM's goals are and how are those goals being met? - "Getting money out of politics" is a phrase I've heard before in progressive political interviews. I've yet to hear an interviewer require the speaker to define what that means or point out a direct conflict with freedom of speech. It seems more practical to me to come up with ways to deal with that than repeat this long-repeated but apparently inactionable catchphrase. Carl Estabrook came up with a way to accomplish this in the context of political candidates not being heard from on TV and radio: as a condition of keeping a public broadcast license, add a requirement that any public-airwave broadcaster must run during prime-time a 1-hour, uninterrupted, and uncensored piece from each ballot-qualified candidate who submits such a piece to be run. This allows political candidates running for office to get one hour of airtime that costs a campaign real money and helps the public who sees/hears it make a more informed choice when they vote. Regarding this exchange when Greenwald pressed Domise to say what BLM stands for: > Greenwald: [...] What, to you, are those really meaty critical issues, like? What > are the goals of this movement whether unrealistic but nonetheless worthy to > strive for and advocate, or actually realistic? > > Domise: I mean...If I was to say, for example, that the goal is the abolition of > police in the carceral state, a lot of people will say 'well, what does that even > mean?'. Well, it means the abolition of police in the carceral state. It means no > more prisons. It means no more police officers. It means that we are able to > manage our own affairs. 'Well, how do you get rid of police in the carceral > state?' You cannot have a system that doesn't produce criminals unless you get rid > of the system altogether which means ending capitalism. That means realigning our > social arrangements such that we are operating under a socialist system. Is having > a social system going to solve the cultural state? No absolutely not. There are > societal problems that we're going to have to address at the micro level. So then > the question becomes, well, how do solve all these problems at once and you have > to take steps towards it. So the tough part and getting to people to radically > reimagine our system of social relations is people are a lot more comfortable, or > I shouldn't say comfortable, but they're a lot more willing to move away from pain > than they are toward pleasure and the pain of unfamiliarity, that is, what does a > system look like without police, if you read "The End of Policing" for example, > there are many examples and many suggestions for which a system that doesn't have > policing actually looks. You know, who do we bring in in the place of these armed > agents of the state, the people that have the monopoly on the use of violence? But > getting people to actually read a book or getting people to understand a different > form of social relations -- people talk about, like you know, capitalism and > socialism et cetera as if it's economics, it's not, it's how we related to one > another. And I don't quite know how you do that. [...] and later when Domise offered some "steps that we can to get there if we're talking about specific policy solutions": > Domise: Well, I don't even think that taxing billionaires more is even going to be > the answer. I think having a strict set of guidelines, that is: a CEO and the > executive board [of a] company cannot earn more than this multiplier of their > workers. That bringing back labor power to the workplace where workers can > collectively organize without being undermined by their bosses. [Example of an > unnamed worker-led union being fired immediately after unionizing, and he says the > US needs "a real left party" if we're going to pursue policy changes through > electoral politics which he has abandoned] - Domise's policy points are all given in the hypothetical. This left me unclear as to whether this is what BLM stands for or if this is what Domise wants independently of BLM. - It took almost an hour to get to this point. That is way too long to get to something approaching a description of what BLM might stand for. - Assuming, for a moment, that this is what BLM stands for, BLM is not spelling this out to their audience in their protests or on their website. But this is an example of a message which establishment figures would not have echoed (co-opted) if establishment figures knew that that's what BLM stands for. - I see some goals (such as having no police) but no means to reach those goals. This particular example is troublesome (see what David Green mentioned -- Chaz/Chop was an unmitigated disaster). Chop was arrived at undemocratically as well. While having no police might be realistic, it clearly needs to be thought through more than it was with Chop. And it's the responsibility of someone who advocates for an end to police to be clear about how police tasks will be handled. - "[A] system that doesn't produce criminals" would seem to mean decriminalizing the actions that we call criminal, but which actions are those? To me this too needs some more consideration. I suggest understanding why criminal acts occur and addressing those issues more specifically: if, for example, people are stealing food to feed their families, perhaps we should provide everyone with good food gratis. Another example of something to consider: Portugal decriminalized all drugs and is using police to help addicts get rehabilitation. This appears to have significantly reduced drug abuse. That seems more specific and actionable than what I heard Domise say, certainly something worth looking into for those who understand and advocate for the goals Domise described. I'm sure there are other 'threats of a good example' we ought to consider. - a more minor point: I think that Domise should get used to repeating what he wants people to know instead of glibly repeating the exact same words again (as he did in his own example of "abolition of police in the carceral state" and what that means), or laughing at the idea that we need policy decisions (which Domise did just before the last quote above), or pointing to a book (such as "The End of Police") followed by criticizing his audience for not reading that book. It's reasonable to expect people to ask you to explain what you mean when you're addressing something unfamiliar. I think there's a great agreement that we don't want to see the police be a killing squad. How to get there in a sustainable way and understanding the tradeoffs in denying the police that power will need some thinking through and some explaining. -J From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 03:54:56 2020 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 22:54:56 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Reflections on a recent Greenwald interview about BLM In-Reply-To: <2bd909fd-673b-0085-32aa-79c9c6770608@forestfield.org> References: <2bd909fd-673b-0085-32aa-79c9c6770608@forestfield.org> Message-ID: It's Anarcho-neoliberalism with an unlimited time horizon, in order to milk as much $ from foundations in the meantime. On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 10:43 PM J.B. Nicholson via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > Brussel, Morton K wrote: > > The BLM ?movement", which arouses such fervent antagonism by David, has > had worthy > > manifestations throughout the country, and elsewhere. I have not seen > the evidence > > that they were financed/supported by Soros and/or specific groups. There > were all > > kinds of participants in the protests, aroused by the killing of George > Floyd. > > David seems to relegate the protests to a false issue; i.e., by ignoring > willfully > > the crucial class and revolutionary issues. It?s as if the mass protests > were bad, > > i.e., counterproductive. But they did reveal the pernicious actions of > the present > > system and the Trump government, viz Portland. > > I was watching Glenn Greenwald's latest interview > (https://youtube.com/watch?v=I_2CVBN4mlo) which is with Andray Domise > (described as > "definitely a militant supporter of [Black Lives Matter]" at 2m40s). I > think this > interview eventually gets into something relevant to this discussion: BLM > co-optation. I think this ends up backing up David Green's criticism of > BLM > (particularly when he wrote that "[BLM's] analysis is preposterous, with > no material > component whatsoever."). > > I think that Greenwald is too generous to Domise in trying to find a nice > way to say > that BLM needed to have announced what they stood for a while ago. > > I'm hesitant to recommend this video for running during either AWARE on > the Air or > News from Neptune because it's too long for what little value the > interview has. The > video is worth seeing for about 15 minutes worth of BLM critique starting > around 23 > minutes in, and for the talk after about 1 hour in. > > Here's some more detail on my take on BLM based on what I saw in this > interview. I'll > try to hit the highlights because, frankly, this interview felt to me like > quite a > slog to go through. > > > > I still don't know what BLM stands for even after watching this talk. > BLM's choices > strike me as indistinguishable from ethics-washing neoliberalism (I'm not > sure what > the right term is here, but I think of "ethics-washing" for neoliberal > interests to > be akin to what the term "greenwashing" means for businesses that operate > in > anti-environmental ways). I'm all for cops not killing people, but there > has to be a > plan of action to make that come about. It can't just be a vision with > implementation > detail left unsaid which is what gives me the impression the practical, > challenging-police-policy part is left out. And what's left (painting > slogans on > signs, floors, streets, and the phrase "defund the police") seem to me to > be > distractions. > > It's not clear to me how Domise holds the views he does and is still a > "militant > supporter of BLM". I doubt even he could give the 10-point list of demands > he said > BLM might need. Domise said, "I don't even know where a [Black Lives > Matter] > manifesto would begin...they [Black Lives Matter] have on their website > their policy > goals, their ideology -- everything is already there" which doesn't > address how > little any goals are seen in the protests on the street, what the > adversely affected > need now, and that goals without clear strategy reads as lofty ideas with > no > implementation details. > > Domise claims that BLM doesn't want to put effort into making "specific > and cogent > demands" because the media won't accurately echo BLM's demands. He claims > this > repeats an experience he had with his speaking to people at Occupy Wall > St.: > > > Domise: When I spoke to people at Occupy, they made a pretty convincing > case to me > > that, well, yes: it would be a lot easier for people to digest at home > if we had a > > crisp and tight set of demands. But then the question is, are those > demands going > > to be good enough? Are they [the media] actually going to repeat what we > say on > > the evening news? Even the things that we have been saying that we say > right in > > front of news cameras when we're being interviewed. They're getting, > let's say, > > like two-second snippets out of everything that we've just said and > they're > > describing us as being not only leaderless but pointless as well. And I > kind of > > got that; there is going to be that obscurantist mode that media takes > that even > > when you've done the work of making these very specific and very cogent > demands > > they're still going to make it seem like disorganized movement of the > disaffected > > and apathetic anyway. So I kind of get that. > > I found this to be a very revealing quote because to me it says that BLM's > organizers > haven't yet learned that in life you can only control what you do, not > what other > people do. You're always better off explaining what you stand for as > clearly as you > can (even revising it later as you learn more or are better at explaining > what's in > your head). By the same token, this is why I find that the best evidence > against > BLM's choices are found on their own website: there they have full control > over their > own message. No other media gets in the way of passing their message on to > us. Yet > there I find nothing specific, actionable, and cogent. Real-world needs > such as > Medicare for All, rent forgiveness/control/strikes, a universal basic > income, > guaranteed housing, and a national jobs program are all class concerns > that speak to > what we urgently need (now more than ever) yet go unaddressed on BLM's > website. > Community control over police is a good idea but going about getting that > is > difficult, even after the recent police murders. > > Later Domise said: > > Domise: I don't think you're ever going to be able to stop the process > of > > recuperation and co-optation regardless. You know, four years ago I > don't know > > that we would have seen corporations tweeting out and saying on > instagram, or > > putting in hashtags, "Black Lives Matter". But does that matter anyway? > That > > itself is the process of capitalist recuperation: that is, willing to > say the > > thing that you want to hear because it's going to adapt, it's going to > organize > > itself in such a fashion that it's going to tamp out resistance to > itself. So when > > corporations are tweeting out "Black Lives Matter" but then continuing > practices > > as status quo they're still lobbying the federal government for money, > they're > > still lobbying to keep the minimum wage low, they're still stamping out > unions > > does that actually make any difference? And I don't know that words are > going to > > be enough. I think it's going to be specific actions to limit the power > of > > corporations, to get money out of politics, to give more power to people > [...] > > I found this revealing too. Here are some points that came to mind during > this > section of the interview: > > - One problem with BLM is framing this in terms of "stop[ping] the process > [of > co-optation]" instead of asking why BLM's name is so easily co-opted by > the > establishment. Domise asked "does that [co-optation] matter anyway?": Yes, > if those > are BLM goals being minimized or rendered toothless in the co-optation. > Domise said > "I don't know that words are going to be enough". Words are enough to > indicate what > side BLM is on. > > If BLM had published a series of clear, specific, and actionable > statements on its > own website detailing what needs to be done and how to reach those goals, > perhaps it > would be much more difficult to co-opt what BLM was saying. For example, I > occasionally hear BLM activists advocate for raising the minimum wage but > the action > on that comes from other activists that don't have any visible connection > to BLM. I > see nothing on BLM's website actionably describing steps to raise the > minimum wage, > create more (presumably worker-run) unions, or organizing people to lobby > their > Congresspeople to not give big businesses more money (ala CARES Act > largesse). > > Domise's framing helps BLM to try to make the task of being specific and > actionable > seem insurmountable or unnecessary, even unwise. And the results from when > BLM began > and now appear to be that there will be no serious policy changes in > police behavior. > Without serious police policy change and proof of compliance with the new > policy, it > seems fair to ask what BLM's goals are and how are those goals being met? > > - "Getting money out of politics" is a phrase I've heard before in > progressive > political interviews. I've yet to hear an interviewer require the speaker > to define > what that means or point out a direct conflict with freedom of speech. It > seems more > practical to me to come up with ways to deal with that than repeat this > long-repeated > but apparently inactionable catchphrase. Carl Estabrook came up with a way > to > accomplish this in the context of political candidates not being heard > from on TV and > radio: as a condition of keeping a public broadcast license, add a > requirement that > any public-airwave broadcaster must run during prime-time a 1-hour, > uninterrupted, > and uncensored piece from each ballot-qualified candidate who submits such > a piece to > be run. This allows political candidates running for office to get one > hour of > airtime that costs a campaign real money and helps the public who > sees/hears it make > a more informed choice when they vote. > > > > > Regarding this exchange when Greenwald pressed Domise to say what BLM > stands for: > > > Greenwald: [...] What, to you, are those really meaty critical issues, > like? What > > are the goals of this movement whether unrealistic but nonetheless > worthy to > > strive for and advocate, or actually realistic? > > > > Domise: I mean...If I was to say, for example, that the goal is the > abolition of > > police in the carceral state, a lot of people will say 'well, what does > that even > > mean?'. Well, it means the abolition of police in the carceral state. It > means no > > more prisons. It means no more police officers. It means that we are > able to > > manage our own affairs. 'Well, how do you get rid of police in the > carceral > > state?' You cannot have a system that doesn't produce criminals unless > you get rid > > of the system altogether which means ending capitalism. That means > realigning our > > social arrangements such that we are operating under a socialist system. > Is having > > a social system going to solve the cultural state? No absolutely not. > There are > > societal problems that we're going to have to address at the micro > level. So then > > the question becomes, well, how do solve all these problems at once and > you have > > to take steps towards it. So the tough part and getting to people to > radically > > reimagine our system of social relations is people are a lot more > comfortable, or > > I shouldn't say comfortable, but they're a lot more willing to move away > from pain > > than they are toward pleasure and the pain of unfamiliarity, that is, > what does a > > system look like without police, if you read "The End of Policing" for > example, > > there are many examples and many suggestions for which a system that > doesn't have > > policing actually looks. You know, who do we bring in in the place of > these armed > > agents of the state, the people that have the monopoly on the use of > violence? But > > getting people to actually read a book or getting people to understand a > different > > form of social relations -- people talk about, like you know, capitalism > and > > socialism et cetera as if it's economics, it's not, it's how we related > to one > > another. And I don't quite know how you do that. [...] > > and later when Domise offered some "steps that we can to get there if > we're talking > about specific policy solutions": > > > Domise: Well, I don't even think that taxing billionaires more is even > going to be > > the answer. I think having a strict set of guidelines, that is: a CEO > and the > > executive board [of a] company cannot earn more than this multiplier of > their > > workers. That bringing back labor power to the workplace where workers > can > > collectively organize without being undermined by their bosses. [Example > of an > > unnamed worker-led union being fired immediately after unionizing, and > he says the > > US needs "a real left party" if we're going to pursue policy changes > through > > electoral politics which he has abandoned] > > > - Domise's policy points are all given in the hypothetical. This left me > unclear as > to whether this is what BLM stands for or if this is what Domise wants > independently > of BLM. > > - It took almost an hour to get to this point. That is way too long to get > to > something approaching a description of what BLM might stand for. > > - Assuming, for a moment, that this is what BLM stands for, BLM is not > spelling this > out to their audience in their protests or on their website. But this is > an example > of a message which establishment figures would not have echoed (co-opted) > if > establishment figures knew that that's what BLM stands for. > > - I see some goals (such as having no police) but no means to reach those > goals. This > particular example is troublesome (see what David Green mentioned -- > Chaz/Chop was an > unmitigated disaster). Chop was arrived at undemocratically as well. While > having no > police might be realistic, it clearly needs to be thought through more > than it was > with Chop. And it's the responsibility of someone who advocates for an end > to police > to be clear about how police tasks will be handled. > > - "[A] system that doesn't produce criminals" would seem to mean > decriminalizing the > actions that we call criminal, but which actions are those? To me this too > needs some > more consideration. I suggest understanding why criminal acts occur and > addressing > those issues more specifically: if, for example, people are stealing food > to feed > their families, perhaps we should provide everyone with good food gratis. > Another > example of something to consider: Portugal decriminalized all drugs and is > using > police to help addicts get rehabilitation. This appears to have > significantly reduced > drug abuse. That seems more specific and actionable than what I heard > Domise say, > certainly something worth looking into for those who understand and > advocate for the > goals Domise described. I'm sure there are other 'threats of a good > example' we ought > to consider. > > - a more minor point: I think that Domise should get used to repeating > what he wants > people to know instead of glibly repeating the exact same words again (as > he did in > his own example of "abolition of police in the carceral state" and what > that means), > or laughing at the idea that we need policy decisions (which Domise did > just before > the last quote above), or pointing to a book (such as "The End of Police") > followed > by criticizing his audience for not reading that book. It's reasonable to > expect > people to ask you to explain what you mean when you're addressing > something > unfamiliar. I think there's a great agreement that we don't want to see > the police be > a killing squad. How to get there in a sustainable way and understanding > the > tradeoffs in denying the police that power will need some thinking through > and some > explaining. > > -J > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Sun Aug 2 04:13:45 2020 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 04:13:45 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Chomsky on the great danger of Trump In-Reply-To: <5e110e74-cdd1-e0b3-78b5-6bd1e5d67683@forestfield.org> References: <2F0C1491-D5BA-4E16-B3BE-FCF70F047876@newsfromneptune.com> <22388a21-621e-4017-36ee-dd3a54e0fd55@forestfield.org> <5e110e74-cdd1-e0b3-78b5-6bd1e5d67683@forestfield.org> Message-ID: The issue is not one of voting for either of the parties on one?s election ballot. Chomsky?s view, and mine, is that we are in a uniquely grave (existential) situation for the three issues Chomsky cites: 1. the climate-environmental crisis, 2. nuclear war, and 3. a democracy crisis. For all of which Trump represents the worst danger one can imagine. Biden may not be far better here for reasons which are evident, but generally we have some hope that his policies and government will be less toxic and perhaps maleable on individual aspects of these issues. The election is a means of avoiding, or mitigating, the worst of these toxicities, and perhaps saving human society and the global biome in the process. Other issues such as health care are secondary in the present situation, even with the coronavirus. Even clearly the very important issues such as corporate influence and money in government, military and ?national security?, foreign policy generally, a (state-? capitalist economy, civil rights, racism, education, societal inequality, etc, must be of lesser priority in this context. The fight will have to be waged on these vital ?secondary? issues after the present governmental horror is eliminated. Chomsky is sounding the alarm as forcefully as he can. Too bad the alarm is denigrated, or ignored. > On Aug 1, 2020, at 9:51 PM, J.B. Nicholson via Peace-discuss wrote: > > David Green wrote: >> Mort, I have no problem with Chomsky's appropriate alarmism. I do have a >> problem with his implying that Biden will in any serious way challenge the >> institutional forces that are leading us to the abyss. > > I concur with what David said. I'll add a few notes, none of which are in objection to what David said. > > Today's establishment-friendly review of Biden reminds me of the light-touch criticism Hillary Clinton received 4 years ago (and from some of the same people). There's no clear and detailed coverage of his political record in establishment media which includes DN. And like Hillary Clinton's political history, doesn't bear close scrutiny for her supporters. Problems with Biden are waved away as if one of the two major party candidates simply must be deemed better than the other. > > I think that these DN Chomsky interviews are very much about stumping for the Democrats ahead of election time. I think climate change and nuclear war are very important. But I don't think that these issues will be the way voters pick whether to vote or whom to vote for. As I understand it, voters are far more likely to make an election decision based on their immediate financial situation. So I won't be surprised if we see a repeat of what happened in 2016 -- the largest bloc of registered voters didn't vote for US President, likely out of disgust with both major party candidates. > > I find it telling and sad that Medicare for All and Universal Basic Income don't come up at all in the 6 parts of that Chomsky interview posted so far. These two policies strike me as practical, majoritarian-support approaches to help the poor avoid the immiseration they're facing or will likely face soon. But anyone endorsing Biden can't bring up these policy choices without highlighting how awful the Democrats are for basically refusing Medicare for All 3 times in recent history (when Democrats had both houses of Congress & the presidency under Obama with HR676, and now with 2 bills Congress apparently refuses to bring to the floor now). > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 10:40:37 2020 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 06:40:37 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Reflections on a recent Greenwald interview about BLM In-Reply-To: References: <2bd909fd-673b-0085-32aa-79c9c6770608@forestfield.org> Message-ID: Which is doing more to change history: Black Lives Matter or the Green Party? On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 11:55 PM David Green via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > It's Anarcho-neoliberalism with an unlimited time horizon, in order to > milk as much $ from foundations in the meantime. > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 10:43 PM J.B. Nicholson via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> Brussel, Morton K wrote: >> > The BLM ?movement", which arouses such fervent antagonism by David, has >> had worthy >> > manifestations throughout the country, and elsewhere. I have not seen >> the evidence >> > that they were financed/supported by Soros and/or specific groups. >> There were all >> > kinds of participants in the protests, aroused by the killing of George >> Floyd. >> > David seems to relegate the protests to a false issue; i.e., by >> ignoring willfully >> > the crucial class and revolutionary issues. It?s as if the mass >> protests were bad, >> > i.e., counterproductive. But they did reveal the pernicious actions of >> the present >> > system and the Trump government, viz Portland. >> >> I was watching Glenn Greenwald's latest interview >> (https://youtube.com/watch?v=I_2CVBN4mlo) which is with Andray Domise >> (described as >> "definitely a militant supporter of [Black Lives Matter]" at 2m40s). I >> think this >> interview eventually gets into something relevant to this discussion: BLM >> co-optation. I think this ends up backing up David Green's criticism of >> BLM >> (particularly when he wrote that "[BLM's] analysis is preposterous, with >> no material >> component whatsoever."). >> >> I think that Greenwald is too generous to Domise in trying to find a nice >> way to say >> that BLM needed to have announced what they stood for a while ago. >> >> I'm hesitant to recommend this video for running during either AWARE on >> the Air or >> News from Neptune because it's too long for what little value the >> interview has. The >> video is worth seeing for about 15 minutes worth of BLM critique starting >> around 23 >> minutes in, and for the talk after about 1 hour in. >> >> Here's some more detail on my take on BLM based on what I saw in this >> interview. I'll >> try to hit the highlights because, frankly, this interview felt to me >> like quite a >> slog to go through. >> >> >> >> I still don't know what BLM stands for even after watching this talk. >> BLM's choices >> strike me as indistinguishable from ethics-washing neoliberalism (I'm not >> sure what >> the right term is here, but I think of "ethics-washing" for neoliberal >> interests to >> be akin to what the term "greenwashing" means for businesses that operate >> in >> anti-environmental ways). I'm all for cops not killing people, but there >> has to be a >> plan of action to make that come about. It can't just be a vision with >> implementation >> detail left unsaid which is what gives me the impression the practical, >> challenging-police-policy part is left out. And what's left (painting >> slogans on >> signs, floors, streets, and the phrase "defund the police") seem to me to >> be >> distractions. >> >> It's not clear to me how Domise holds the views he does and is still a >> "militant >> supporter of BLM". I doubt even he could give the 10-point list of >> demands he said >> BLM might need. Domise said, "I don't even know where a [Black Lives >> Matter] >> manifesto would begin...they [Black Lives Matter] have on their website >> their policy >> goals, their ideology -- everything is already there" which doesn't >> address how >> little any goals are seen in the protests on the street, what the >> adversely affected >> need now, and that goals without clear strategy reads as lofty ideas with >> no >> implementation details. >> >> Domise claims that BLM doesn't want to put effort into making "specific >> and cogent >> demands" because the media won't accurately echo BLM's demands. He claims >> this >> repeats an experience he had with his speaking to people at Occupy Wall >> St.: >> >> > Domise: When I spoke to people at Occupy, they made a pretty convincing >> case to me >> > that, well, yes: it would be a lot easier for people to digest at home >> if we had a >> > crisp and tight set of demands. But then the question is, are those >> demands going >> > to be good enough? Are they [the media] actually going to repeat what >> we say on >> > the evening news? Even the things that we have been saying that we say >> right in >> > front of news cameras when we're being interviewed. They're getting, >> let's say, >> > like two-second snippets out of everything that we've just said and >> they're >> > describing us as being not only leaderless but pointless as well. And I >> kind of >> > got that; there is going to be that obscurantist mode that media takes >> that even >> > when you've done the work of making these very specific and very cogent >> demands >> > they're still going to make it seem like disorganized movement of the >> disaffected >> > and apathetic anyway. So I kind of get that. >> >> I found this to be a very revealing quote because to me it says that >> BLM's organizers >> haven't yet learned that in life you can only control what you do, not >> what other >> people do. You're always better off explaining what you stand for as >> clearly as you >> can (even revising it later as you learn more or are better at explaining >> what's in >> your head). By the same token, this is why I find that the best evidence >> against >> BLM's choices are found on their own website: there they have full >> control over their >> own message. No other media gets in the way of passing their message on >> to us. Yet >> there I find nothing specific, actionable, and cogent. Real-world needs >> such as >> Medicare for All, rent forgiveness/control/strikes, a universal basic >> income, >> guaranteed housing, and a national jobs program are all class concerns >> that speak to >> what we urgently need (now more than ever) yet go unaddressed on BLM's >> website. >> Community control over police is a good idea but going about getting that >> is >> difficult, even after the recent police murders. >> >> Later Domise said: >> > Domise: I don't think you're ever going to be able to stop the process >> of >> > recuperation and co-optation regardless. You know, four years ago I >> don't know >> > that we would have seen corporations tweeting out and saying on >> instagram, or >> > putting in hashtags, "Black Lives Matter". But does that matter anyway? >> That >> > itself is the process of capitalist recuperation: that is, willing to >> say the >> > thing that you want to hear because it's going to adapt, it's going to >> organize >> > itself in such a fashion that it's going to tamp out resistance to >> itself. So when >> > corporations are tweeting out "Black Lives Matter" but then continuing >> practices >> > as status quo they're still lobbying the federal government for money, >> they're >> > still lobbying to keep the minimum wage low, they're still stamping out >> unions >> > does that actually make any difference? And I don't know that words are >> going to >> > be enough. I think it's going to be specific actions to limit the power >> of >> > corporations, to get money out of politics, to give more power to >> people [...] >> >> I found this revealing too. Here are some points that came to mind during >> this >> section of the interview: >> >> - One problem with BLM is framing this in terms of "stop[ping] the >> process [of >> co-optation]" instead of asking why BLM's name is so easily co-opted by >> the >> establishment. Domise asked "does that [co-optation] matter anyway?": >> Yes, if those >> are BLM goals being minimized or rendered toothless in the co-optation. >> Domise said >> "I don't know that words are going to be enough". Words are enough to >> indicate what >> side BLM is on. >> >> If BLM had published a series of clear, specific, and actionable >> statements on its >> own website detailing what needs to be done and how to reach those goals, >> perhaps it >> would be much more difficult to co-opt what BLM was saying. For example, >> I >> occasionally hear BLM activists advocate for raising the minimum wage but >> the action >> on that comes from other activists that don't have any visible connection >> to BLM. I >> see nothing on BLM's website actionably describing steps to raise the >> minimum wage, >> create more (presumably worker-run) unions, or organizing people to lobby >> their >> Congresspeople to not give big businesses more money (ala CARES Act >> largesse). >> >> Domise's framing helps BLM to try to make the task of being specific and >> actionable >> seem insurmountable or unnecessary, even unwise. And the results from >> when BLM began >> and now appear to be that there will be no serious policy changes in >> police behavior. >> Without serious police policy change and proof of compliance with the new >> policy, it >> seems fair to ask what BLM's goals are and how are those goals being met? >> >> - "Getting money out of politics" is a phrase I've heard before in >> progressive >> political interviews. I've yet to hear an interviewer require the speaker >> to define >> what that means or point out a direct conflict with freedom of speech. It >> seems more >> practical to me to come up with ways to deal with that than repeat this >> long-repeated >> but apparently inactionable catchphrase. Carl Estabrook came up with a >> way to >> accomplish this in the context of political candidates not being heard >> from on TV and >> radio: as a condition of keeping a public broadcast license, add a >> requirement that >> any public-airwave broadcaster must run during prime-time a 1-hour, >> uninterrupted, >> and uncensored piece from each ballot-qualified candidate who submits >> such a piece to >> be run. This allows political candidates running for office to get one >> hour of >> airtime that costs a campaign real money and helps the public who >> sees/hears it make >> a more informed choice when they vote. >> >> >> >> >> Regarding this exchange when Greenwald pressed Domise to say what BLM >> stands for: >> >> > Greenwald: [...] What, to you, are those really meaty critical issues, >> like? What >> > are the goals of this movement whether unrealistic but nonetheless >> worthy to >> > strive for and advocate, or actually realistic? >> > >> > Domise: I mean...If I was to say, for example, that the goal is the >> abolition of >> > police in the carceral state, a lot of people will say 'well, what does >> that even >> > mean?'. Well, it means the abolition of police in the carceral state. >> It means no >> > more prisons. It means no more police officers. It means that we are >> able to >> > manage our own affairs. 'Well, how do you get rid of police in the >> carceral >> > state?' You cannot have a system that doesn't produce criminals unless >> you get rid >> > of the system altogether which means ending capitalism. That means >> realigning our >> > social arrangements such that we are operating under a socialist >> system. Is having >> > a social system going to solve the cultural state? No absolutely not. >> There are >> > societal problems that we're going to have to address at the micro >> level. So then >> > the question becomes, well, how do solve all these problems at once and >> you have >> > to take steps towards it. So the tough part and getting to people to >> radically >> > reimagine our system of social relations is people are a lot more >> comfortable, or >> > I shouldn't say comfortable, but they're a lot more willing to move >> away from pain >> > than they are toward pleasure and the pain of unfamiliarity, that is, >> what does a >> > system look like without police, if you read "The End of Policing" for >> example, >> > there are many examples and many suggestions for which a system that >> doesn't have >> > policing actually looks. You know, who do we bring in in the place of >> these armed >> > agents of the state, the people that have the monopoly on the use of >> violence? But >> > getting people to actually read a book or getting people to understand >> a different >> > form of social relations -- people talk about, like you know, >> capitalism and >> > socialism et cetera as if it's economics, it's not, it's how we related >> to one >> > another. And I don't quite know how you do that. [...] >> >> and later when Domise offered some "steps that we can to get there if >> we're talking >> about specific policy solutions": >> >> > Domise: Well, I don't even think that taxing billionaires more is even >> going to be >> > the answer. I think having a strict set of guidelines, that is: a CEO >> and the >> > executive board [of a] company cannot earn more than this multiplier of >> their >> > workers. That bringing back labor power to the workplace where workers >> can >> > collectively organize without being undermined by their bosses. >> [Example of an >> > unnamed worker-led union being fired immediately after unionizing, and >> he says the >> > US needs "a real left party" if we're going to pursue policy changes >> through >> > electoral politics which he has abandoned] >> >> >> - Domise's policy points are all given in the hypothetical. This left me >> unclear as >> to whether this is what BLM stands for or if this is what Domise wants >> independently >> of BLM. >> >> - It took almost an hour to get to this point. That is way too long to >> get to >> something approaching a description of what BLM might stand for. >> >> - Assuming, for a moment, that this is what BLM stands for, BLM is not >> spelling this >> out to their audience in their protests or on their website. But this is >> an example >> of a message which establishment figures would not have echoed (co-opted) >> if >> establishment figures knew that that's what BLM stands for. >> >> - I see some goals (such as having no police) but no means to reach those >> goals. This >> particular example is troublesome (see what David Green mentioned -- >> Chaz/Chop was an >> unmitigated disaster). Chop was arrived at undemocratically as well. >> While having no >> police might be realistic, it clearly needs to be thought through more >> than it was >> with Chop. And it's the responsibility of someone who advocates for an >> end to police >> to be clear about how police tasks will be handled. >> >> - "[A] system that doesn't produce criminals" would seem to mean >> decriminalizing the >> actions that we call criminal, but which actions are those? To me this >> too needs some >> more consideration. I suggest understanding why criminal acts occur and >> addressing >> those issues more specifically: if, for example, people are stealing food >> to feed >> their families, perhaps we should provide everyone with good food gratis. >> Another >> example of something to consider: Portugal decriminalized all drugs and >> is using >> police to help addicts get rehabilitation. This appears to have >> significantly reduced >> drug abuse. That seems more specific and actionable than what I heard >> Domise say, >> certainly something worth looking into for those who understand and >> advocate for the >> goals Domise described. I'm sure there are other 'threats of a good >> example' we ought >> to consider. >> >> - a more minor point: I think that Domise should get used to repeating >> what he wants >> people to know instead of glibly repeating the exact same words again (as >> he did in >> his own example of "abolition of police in the carceral state" and what >> that means), >> or laughing at the idea that we need policy decisions (which Domise did >> just before >> the last quote above), or pointing to a book (such as "The End of >> Police") followed >> by criticizing his audience for not reading that book. It's reasonable to >> expect >> people to ask you to explain what you mean when you're addressing >> something >> unfamiliar. I think there's a great agreement that we don't want to see >> the police be >> a killing squad. How to get there in a sustainable way and understanding >> the >> tradeoffs in denying the police that power will need some thinking >> through and some >> explaining. >> >> -J >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 10:51:09 2020 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 06:51:09 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Adolph Reed says: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's not true that you have no say in what happens in other Congressional districts, like in Massachusetts 1 where Alex Morse is running against Richard Neal, or in Missouri 1 where Cori Bush [also a Palestinian rights advocate] is running against William Lacy Clay. It's true that you don't have a vote there. But you could donate money and encourage others to do so. You could make phone calls and encourage others to do so. You could post about it on social media. You comment on events in Minneapolis, even though you don't have a vote in Minneapolis; why the double standard? I agree with you about the other stuff, the stupid violence at the protests, the ridiculous double standard about creating an exception for social distancing guidelines for politically correct protests. But none of that justifies your hostile obsession with BLM at the expense of all else. On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 12:06 PM David Green wrote: > Beyond having no say or influence whatsoever in districts in which > allegedly decent Dems might be up for election, I think it's also > worthwhile to point out that it is dangerous, and pretty scary in a > McCarthy/witch hunt "satanic ritual abuse in daycare centers kind of way > (1980s), when there is a general, elite consensus around ideas and analyses > that are false and dangerous. Like, when they pulled a charred body out of > a torched building in Minneapolis a few days ago. Or when two people died > as a result of the "Autonomous Zone" in Seattle. Or when there is a > resurgence in the pandemic partly related to demonstrations, obviously with > lethal consequences. Many ordinary people, unlike many educated people, can > probably see that it's outrageous for public health officials to make an > exception because "racism is a pandemic," while alleged Trump supporters > are vilified for wanting to open up businesses because they are going > broke, albeit that is a result of Trump's economic response to the > pandemic, albeit the Dems didn't propose and alternative that would have > taken care of basic needs until the virus could be suppressed. > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 10:54 AM Robert Naiman > wrote: > >> I agree that the "abolition" thing is stupid. So what? Why focus on that? >> Why be provoked by that? There's so many other things to focus on which are >> so much more important. >> >> For example: in Massachusetts' First Congressional District, BernieBro >> Alex Morse is primarying PelosiBro Richard Neal, chair of the tax >> code-writing Ways and Means Committee. Alex Morse is a Jew who supports >> Palestinian rights, Medicare for All, Green New Deal. If we get him in >> Congress, it's a big deal. If we defeat Richard Neal, it's a big deal. If >> we defeat Richard Neal, it sets up a fight for the chair of the Ways and >> Means Committee, just like the defeat of Eliot Engel by Jamaal Bowman set >> up a fight for the chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Joaquin >> Castro is running for chair on a platform of ending wars, ending >> anti-civilian economic sanctions. This is world-historical, nothing like >> this ever happened before, and it wouldn't have happened if Jamaal Bowman >> hadn't defeated Eliot Engel. >> >> Why not focus on things that matter, instead of stupid things? >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 11:41 AM David Green >> wrote: >> >>> Not letting go Bob, but thanks for the suggestion anyway. Whatever >>> progress might be made regarding the police, the underlying Woke/anarchist >>> demands for abolition are unhelpful. In any event, it's fanciful to think >>> of BLM as being anything but folded into the neoliberal Democratic Party. >>> Beyond that, BLM is part of the ongoing moral panic that we've experienced >>> since the election of Trump: Russiagate, #metoo, transgender, cancel >>> culture in general. >>> >>> *Aimee Terese:* I usually have a few different drums I?m beating at any >>> given time. I?ve been beating the anarcho-liberalism (Woke) drum for quite >>> some time. I think for a lot of people it started to make a bit more sense >>> this week as we see these complete wing-nut anarchists, and also the >>> Hillary voters all using the same hymn book at once. A lot of people are >>> having trouble making sense of that, and I think basically the constituency >>> of the Democratic Party at this point is split between PMC >>> (professional-managerial class) and then a lot of desperately poor people >>> of color. And so the anarchic discontent, regardless of the class content >>> of the proponents on the ground, that?s always going to line up behind the >>> PMC constituency of the Party because *anarchism is inherently >>> petty-bourgeois* in the way it operates. >>> >>> So that?s why you?re seeing all these rich liberals enjoy the chaos, and >>> ultimately?because the Democratic Party is in bed with Silicon Valley, >>> finance, and the Feds?they can reinvest in all sorts of surveillance >>> technology, an increasing mandate for the use of discretionary force by the >>> state. At the same time, the rich suburbanites can have their egos stroked >>> with this race-reductionist narrative, knowing that ?it?s race not class,? >>> that they?re the good ones, the woke ones, and the NGO-industrial complex >>> will see another increase in jobs for activists, post-grads, organizers, >>> politicians, failed sons, all of that. None of this organizing takes on >>> Capital. It?s a self-reinforcing cycle that keeps most of the Democratic >>> coalition occupied. As long as they can keep workers divided along >>> nationalist ideological lines, then the repressive policing and violence >>> and brutality is going to keep happening. But they?ve managed to set up >>> this anarchic feedback loop where the more this happens the more this feeds >>> its own circular dynamic. >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 8:21 AM Robert Naiman >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Whether that's true or not, it's not an excuse for you to act in bad >>>> faith here. >>>> >>>> I'm in substantial agreement with the Adolph Reed May 2018 critique. >>>> But you're invoking it now in a different context to paint "BLM," a diverse >>>> movement phenomenon, with too broad a brush. Yes, there is an element which >>>> is still like what Adolph Reed described in May 2018. But there are other >>>> elements which are not like that. >>>> >>>> "Police should stop killing unarmed black people" is a concrete demand. >>>> You can tell whether we're making progress on it or not. You can easily >>>> think of concrete reforms that would contribute to it, and some of these >>>> reforms are happening in different places. Banning chokeholds. Licensing >>>> cops so abuser cops can't hop from department to department like abuser >>>> priests. Mandatory webcams. Mandatory public reporting on use of force >>>> statistics. Ending qualified immunity. These things are happening in some >>>> states. If Biden wins and Dems take the Senate, there's going to be >>>> sweeping national reform. >>>> >>>> Just in the last week, there was a fight in the Democratic Platform >>>> committee over Medicare for All. BernieBros were pushing Medicare for All. >>>> BLM was on the side of the BernieBros, demanding that Democrats fight for >>>> Medicare for All. BLM has a race-and-class analysis of why we need Medicare >>>> for All. Black people are dying from Covid-19 at a higher rate, and it's >>>> not just poverty. It's poverty, but it's not just poverty. You control for >>>> class, they're still dying at a higher rate. A study just came out on this >>>> in the last week. Look it up. There are racial disparities in the health >>>> system which are not just class. That's a reason we need Medicare for All. >>>> BLM is good on this. >>>> >>>> Jamaal Bowman is a BernieBro. Look it up. He's for Medicare for All, >>>> he's for Green New Deal, he's against the wars. In defeating Eliot Engel, >>>> he hammered Engel for voting to keep sending cluster bombs to Saudi Arabia. >>>> >>>> You're off the mark here, David. Use your talents and passion for >>>> something productive for justice. Let this go. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 10:41 PM David Green >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> BLM is bad faith from the get-go, the Sanders fiasco. But that's just >>>>> the tip of the iceberg. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 9:21 PM Robert Naiman >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> You're throwing a lot of stuff together there. "BLM" got "under your >>>>>> skin," as it were, that much is clear. You cited Adolph Reed dishonestly >>>>>> out of context; let's put that act of bad faith to the side. Take your >>>>>> grievances against "BLM" one by one. Be honest about what's bothering you. >>>>>> Leave Adolph Reed out of it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 9:17 PM David Green >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> If you look up Michael Tracey's article on Medium about the >>>>>>> destruction during and subsequent to "peaceful" protests, you'll see why I >>>>>>> oppose BLM in concrete terms. People have died needlessly whose lives were >>>>>>> no less valuable than George Floyd. Beyond that, BLM is a bourgeois/PMC >>>>>>> movement with no serious class agenda. Indeed it's anti-working class. >>>>>>> Moreover, the blatant hypocrisy of gatherings during a pandemic for BLM, >>>>>>> vs. harsh criticism of those violating stay-at-home orders for the wrong >>>>>>> reasons, Woke self-righteousness gone mad. BLM will end badly and >>>>>>> accomplish nothing, except make some rich and others destitute. Having >>>>>>> followed the 1619 Project closely, I'm no longer surprised by the >>>>>>> monumental arrogance of the current crop of race hustlers. They are all >>>>>>> right out of the Obama/Oprah playbook. Opportunists. Collective self-pity >>>>>>> by some hyper-priveleged people, acting as if nothing has changed since >>>>>>> 1950. And plenty of what can justifiably be called racism. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 7:33 PM Brussel, Morton K < >>>>>>> brussel at illinois.edu> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just my 2? impressions: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The BLM ?movement", which arouses such fervent antagonism by David, >>>>>>>> has had worthy manifestations throughout the country, and elsewhere. I have >>>>>>>> not seen the evidence that they were financed/supported by Soros and/or >>>>>>>> specific groups. There were all kinds of participants in the protests, >>>>>>>> aroused by the killing of George Floyd. David seems to relegate the >>>>>>>> protests to a false issue; i.e., by ignoring willfully the crucial class >>>>>>>> and revolutionary issues. It?s as if the mass protests were bad, i.e., >>>>>>>> counterproductive. But they did reveal the pernicious actions of the >>>>>>>> present system and the Trump government, viz Portland. As Karen noted:* ?Many >>>>>>>> of the people protesting BLM are not part of or members of [a] BLM >>>>>>>> organization, they are simply people opposing racism against African >>>>>>>> Americans.?* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From Adolph Reed, 2018? in his conclusion: ? *that we recognize >>>>>>>> that race-reductionist politics is the left wing of neoliberalism and >>>>>>>> nothing more. It is openly antagonistic to the idea of a solidaristic left.* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *"Race-reductionist politics" *is simply a epithet: To whom are >>>>>>>> race issues reductionist to the exclusion of all else? Is it just >>>>>>>> that they are over emphasized by all who feel race issues merit emphasis >>>>>>>> and discussion? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Let?s not go overboard. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 2020, at 3:11 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss < >>>>>>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bob, I honestly don't think he'd change his general analysis in any >>>>>>>> significant way in response to the current situation. He's done lots of >>>>>>>> interviews that testify to that in recent weeks, see Jacobin Youtube >>>>>>>> channel. Nonsite republished an article of Reed's from 2016 >>>>>>>> , >>>>>>>> with a new introduction by his co-conspirator Cedric Johnson. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:01 AM Robert Naiman < >>>>>>>> naiman.uiuc at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is a misleading citation of Adolph Reed. He wrote these words >>>>>>>>> in May 2018. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10624-017-9476-3 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 6:13 PM David Green via Peace-discuss < >>>>>>>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Neoliberal anarchism. You can read it on their website. >>>>>>>>>> Masquerading as "community". >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020, 5:09 PM Karen Aram >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I know, I understand. What is their stated view on the family? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 27, 2020, at 15:01, David Green >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Reed speaks to a broad audience, admittedly intellectual, but >>>>>>>>>>> like Chomsky also to labor leaders. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In any event, I'm cutting BLM no slack. It's analysis is >>>>>>>>>>> preposterous, with no material component whatsoever. It's stated view on >>>>>>>>>>> the family is disgusting. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020, 3:42 PM Karen Aram >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> David >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I understand what you and Adolph Reed are saying, and it should >>>>>>>>>>>> be noted, Adolphe Reed is African American and likely targets African >>>>>>>>>>>> Americans when speaking. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Let me now express my simple interpretation and opinion: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> While we may not support the organization BLM given we know >>>>>>>>>>>> they are funded by the DNC and Soros as they support neoliberalism, and >>>>>>>>>>>> their criticism of Bernie for his stand on decommodification of education, >>>>>>>>>>>> etc. was counterproductive to helping African Americans, as well as working >>>>>>>>>>>> class white Americans, nonetheless I don?t propose opposing them. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Many of the people protesting BLM are not part of or members of >>>>>>>>>>>> the BLM organization, they are simply people opposing racism against >>>>>>>>>>>> African Americans, nothing wrong with that. Yes, when it first began those >>>>>>>>>>>> of us opposing our many wars in the Middle East, and the massacre of >>>>>>>>>>>> millions of Muslims, cried out ?all lives matter,? meaning ?what about the >>>>>>>>>>>> millions we are killing now elsewhere in the world who are also not white?? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Today by saying ?Black Lives Matter,? it is now inclusive of >>>>>>>>>>>> indigenous peoples everywhere, as opposed to just white lives mattering. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You are absolutely correct the many problems are a class issue, >>>>>>>>>>>> not a race issue, and by making it just about race, not to negate African >>>>>>>>>>>> Americans have been targeted and suffer worse due to conditions of poverty >>>>>>>>>>>> and racist policy?s, continues to create division between the masses and >>>>>>>>>>>> becomes counterproductive as it ignores the cause, thus preventing >>>>>>>>>>>> solutions. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Promoting people of color to positions of power initially was >>>>>>>>>>>> thought to be progressive, and it was as it provided opportunity to many, >>>>>>>>>>>> but not enough, certainly not all, and it supports the power of the ruling >>>>>>>>>>>> class providing them with tokens of diversity, as we know, power and money >>>>>>>>>>>> corrupts. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> One would think the Obama presidency with his failure to >>>>>>>>>>>> address the ills of African Americans, and working class, his expansion of >>>>>>>>>>>> the Bush wars from two to eight, bail out of the banks and wall street, as >>>>>>>>>>>> well as the implementation of the NDAA which now legitimizes the Trump >>>>>>>>>>>> administration bringing federal troops into cities across the nation to >>>>>>>>>>>> kidnap, incarcerate or just terrorize protestors, would make it clear >>>>>>>>>>>> neither Party has concern for the lives of working class Americans. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The lives of the majority of working class Americans, whatever >>>>>>>>>>>> their race, continue to deteriorate as we fight among ourselves. Therefore >>>>>>>>>>>> we must keep our focus at all times on our system of capitalism as the >>>>>>>>>>>> culprit in need of change. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 26, 2020, at 19:58, David Green via Peace < >>>>>>>>>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Police violence correlates more with class than race. BLM is in >>>>>>>>>>>> support of Democrats, who are equally if not more responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>> neoliberalism and accompanying state violence. Trump is used to justify BLM >>>>>>>>>>>> supported destruction in working class urban communities. We should oppose >>>>>>>>>>>> Trump and BLM. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 9:52 PM John W. >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 9:40 PM David Green < >>>>>>>>>>>>> davidgreen50 at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Corporate and foundation funded anti-racism, including BLM, is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a bourgeois neoliberal project of the professional-managetial class, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> including POC. It is fundamentally antagonistic to the working class. Thus, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should oppose BLM, which I do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ah. So boiled down to its essence and attempting to put >>>>>>>>>>>>> matters into plain English, demanding that the police treat Black people >>>>>>>>>>>>> the same way they treat white people, and quit murdering unarmed Black >>>>>>>>>>>>> people wantonly, is somehow antagonistic to the working class? Asking for >>>>>>>>>>>>> a friend, if I had one. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 9:32 PM John W. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't understand a single sentence of that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 5:10 PM David Green via Peace < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Notwithstanding its performative evocations of the 1960s >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Black Power populist militancy, this antiracist politics is neither leftist >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in itself nor particularly compatible with a left politics as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conventionally understood. At this political juncture, it is, like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bourgeois feminism and other groupist tendencies, an oppositional epicycle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> within hegemonic neoliberalism, one might say a component of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> neoliberalism?s critical self-consciousness; it is thus in fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fundamentally *anti-leftist.* Black political elites? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attacks on the Bernie Sanders 2016 presidential nomination campaign?s call >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for decommodified public higher education as frivolous, irresponsible, or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even un-American underscores how deeply embedded this politics is within >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> neoliberalism.? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>>>>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Sun Aug 2 15:17:39 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 08:17:39 -0700 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Message from Ajamu Baraka Message-ID: Ajamu Baraka 1h ? Let's be clear: The democrat party, like the republican party, is a party committed to white supremacy and imperialist domination of the planet. Neither Black Lives or any other lives mean anything to the interests of capital, so drop the BS. Corporations, the bourgeois media and the state appear to be in full collaboration in trying to use Black lives matter slogan to de-politicize and de-radicalize the capitalist/imperialist systemic crisis. That attempt must be rejected. If anyone is framing this moment as one concerned only with something called racial justice, not in full opposition to capitalism, is silent on U.S. warmongering, believes that the repressive state apparatus will be tamed through voting and that Biden and democrats represent a marked departure from the agenda of white supremacist imperialist domination domestically and internationally - you are hearing someone who is confused, an opportunist or an outright collaborator who is legitimizing the state and sheepdogging the people into reformism. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 15:38:10 2020 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 10:38:10 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Adolph Reed says: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm not sure what to do with an alleged equivalence between a national moral panic with a violent dimension, and Dem campaigns for Congress. Except for the fact that any Dem candidate, whatever their attributes, will have to bow to the cult leaders. But I think at bottom, the problem is I'm David and not Bob, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. On Sun, Aug 2, 2020, 5:51 AM Robert Naiman wrote: > It's not true that you have no say in what happens in other Congressional > districts, like in Massachusetts 1 where Alex Morse is running against > Richard Neal, or in Missouri 1 where Cori Bush [also a Palestinian rights > advocate] is running against William Lacy Clay. It's true that you don't > have a vote there. But you could donate money and encourage others to do > so. You could make phone calls and encourage others to do so. You could > post about it on social media. You comment on events in Minneapolis, even > though you don't have a vote in Minneapolis; why the double standard? I > agree with you about the other stuff, the stupid violence at the protests, > the ridiculous double standard about creating an exception for social > distancing guidelines for politically correct protests. But none of that > justifies your hostile obsession with BLM at the expense of all else. > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 12:06 PM David Green > wrote: > >> Beyond having no say or influence whatsoever in districts in which >> allegedly decent Dems might be up for election, I think it's also >> worthwhile to point out that it is dangerous, and pretty scary in a >> McCarthy/witch hunt "satanic ritual abuse in daycare centers kind of way >> (1980s), when there is a general, elite consensus around ideas and analyses >> that are false and dangerous. Like, when they pulled a charred body out of >> a torched building in Minneapolis a few days ago. Or when two people died >> as a result of the "Autonomous Zone" in Seattle. Or when there is a >> resurgence in the pandemic partly related to demonstrations, obviously with >> lethal consequences. Many ordinary people, unlike many educated people, can >> probably see that it's outrageous for public health officials to make an >> exception because "racism is a pandemic," while alleged Trump supporters >> are vilified for wanting to open up businesses because they are going >> broke, albeit that is a result of Trump's economic response to the >> pandemic, albeit the Dems didn't propose and alternative that would have >> taken care of basic needs until the virus could be suppressed. >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 10:54 AM Robert Naiman >> wrote: >> >>> I agree that the "abolition" thing is stupid. So what? Why focus on >>> that? Why be provoked by that? There's so many other things to focus on >>> which are so much more important. >>> >>> For example: in Massachusetts' First Congressional District, BernieBro >>> Alex Morse is primarying PelosiBro Richard Neal, chair of the tax >>> code-writing Ways and Means Committee. Alex Morse is a Jew who supports >>> Palestinian rights, Medicare for All, Green New Deal. If we get him in >>> Congress, it's a big deal. If we defeat Richard Neal, it's a big deal. If >>> we defeat Richard Neal, it sets up a fight for the chair of the Ways and >>> Means Committee, just like the defeat of Eliot Engel by Jamaal Bowman set >>> up a fight for the chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Joaquin >>> Castro is running for chair on a platform of ending wars, ending >>> anti-civilian economic sanctions. This is world-historical, nothing like >>> this ever happened before, and it wouldn't have happened if Jamaal Bowman >>> hadn't defeated Eliot Engel. >>> >>> Why not focus on things that matter, instead of stupid things? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 11:41 AM David Green >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Not letting go Bob, but thanks for the suggestion anyway. Whatever >>>> progress might be made regarding the police, the underlying Woke/anarchist >>>> demands for abolition are unhelpful. In any event, it's fanciful to think >>>> of BLM as being anything but folded into the neoliberal Democratic Party. >>>> Beyond that, BLM is part of the ongoing moral panic that we've experienced >>>> since the election of Trump: Russiagate, #metoo, transgender, cancel >>>> culture in general. >>>> >>>> *Aimee Terese:* I usually have a few different drums I?m beating at >>>> any given time. I?ve been beating the anarcho-liberalism (Woke) drum for >>>> quite some time. I think for a lot of people it started to make a bit more >>>> sense this week as we see these complete wing-nut anarchists, and also the >>>> Hillary voters all using the same hymn book at once. A lot of people are >>>> having trouble making sense of that, and I think basically the constituency >>>> of the Democratic Party at this point is split between PMC >>>> (professional-managerial class) and then a lot of desperately poor people >>>> of color. And so the anarchic discontent, regardless of the class content >>>> of the proponents on the ground, that?s always going to line up behind the >>>> PMC constituency of the Party because *anarchism is inherently >>>> petty-bourgeois* in the way it operates. >>>> >>>> So that?s why you?re seeing all these rich liberals enjoy the chaos, >>>> and ultimately?because the Democratic Party is in bed with Silicon Valley, >>>> finance, and the Feds?they can reinvest in all sorts of surveillance >>>> technology, an increasing mandate for the use of discretionary force by the >>>> state. At the same time, the rich suburbanites can have their egos stroked >>>> with this race-reductionist narrative, knowing that ?it?s race not class,? >>>> that they?re the good ones, the woke ones, and the NGO-industrial complex >>>> will see another increase in jobs for activists, post-grads, organizers, >>>> politicians, failed sons, all of that. None of this organizing takes on >>>> Capital. It?s a self-reinforcing cycle that keeps most of the Democratic >>>> coalition occupied. As long as they can keep workers divided along >>>> nationalist ideological lines, then the repressive policing and violence >>>> and brutality is going to keep happening. But they?ve managed to set up >>>> this anarchic feedback loop where the more this happens the more this feeds >>>> its own circular dynamic. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 8:21 AM Robert Naiman >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Whether that's true or not, it's not an excuse for you to act in bad >>>>> faith here. >>>>> >>>>> I'm in substantial agreement with the Adolph Reed May 2018 critique. >>>>> But you're invoking it now in a different context to paint "BLM," a diverse >>>>> movement phenomenon, with too broad a brush. Yes, there is an element which >>>>> is still like what Adolph Reed described in May 2018. But there are other >>>>> elements which are not like that. >>>>> >>>>> "Police should stop killing unarmed black people" is a concrete >>>>> demand. You can tell whether we're making progress on it or not. You can >>>>> easily think of concrete reforms that would contribute to it, and some of >>>>> these reforms are happening in different places. Banning chokeholds. >>>>> Licensing cops so abuser cops can't hop from department to department like >>>>> abuser priests. Mandatory webcams. Mandatory public reporting on use of >>>>> force statistics. Ending qualified immunity. These things are happening in >>>>> some states. If Biden wins and Dems take the Senate, there's going to be >>>>> sweeping national reform. >>>>> >>>>> Just in the last week, there was a fight in the Democratic Platform >>>>> committee over Medicare for All. BernieBros were pushing Medicare for All. >>>>> BLM was on the side of the BernieBros, demanding that Democrats fight for >>>>> Medicare for All. BLM has a race-and-class analysis of why we need Medicare >>>>> for All. Black people are dying from Covid-19 at a higher rate, and it's >>>>> not just poverty. It's poverty, but it's not just poverty. You control for >>>>> class, they're still dying at a higher rate. A study just came out on this >>>>> in the last week. Look it up. There are racial disparities in the health >>>>> system which are not just class. That's a reason we need Medicare for All. >>>>> BLM is good on this. >>>>> >>>>> Jamaal Bowman is a BernieBro. Look it up. He's for Medicare for All, >>>>> he's for Green New Deal, he's against the wars. In defeating Eliot Engel, >>>>> he hammered Engel for voting to keep sending cluster bombs to Saudi Arabia. >>>>> >>>>> You're off the mark here, David. Use your talents and passion for >>>>> something productive for justice. Let this go. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 10:41 PM David Green >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> BLM is bad faith from the get-go, the Sanders fiasco. But that's just >>>>>> the tip of the iceberg. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 9:21 PM Robert Naiman >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> You're throwing a lot of stuff together there. "BLM" got "under your >>>>>>> skin," as it were, that much is clear. You cited Adolph Reed dishonestly >>>>>>> out of context; let's put that act of bad faith to the side. Take your >>>>>>> grievances against "BLM" one by one. Be honest about what's bothering you. >>>>>>> Leave Adolph Reed out of it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 9:17 PM David Green >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you look up Michael Tracey's article on Medium about the >>>>>>>> destruction during and subsequent to "peaceful" protests, you'll see why I >>>>>>>> oppose BLM in concrete terms. People have died needlessly whose lives were >>>>>>>> no less valuable than George Floyd. Beyond that, BLM is a bourgeois/PMC >>>>>>>> movement with no serious class agenda. Indeed it's anti-working class. >>>>>>>> Moreover, the blatant hypocrisy of gatherings during a pandemic for BLM, >>>>>>>> vs. harsh criticism of those violating stay-at-home orders for the wrong >>>>>>>> reasons, Woke self-righteousness gone mad. BLM will end badly and >>>>>>>> accomplish nothing, except make some rich and others destitute. Having >>>>>>>> followed the 1619 Project closely, I'm no longer surprised by the >>>>>>>> monumental arrogance of the current crop of race hustlers. They are all >>>>>>>> right out of the Obama/Oprah playbook. Opportunists. Collective self-pity >>>>>>>> by some hyper-priveleged people, acting as if nothing has changed since >>>>>>>> 1950. And plenty of what can justifiably be called racism. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 7:33 PM Brussel, Morton K < >>>>>>>> brussel at illinois.edu> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just my 2? impressions: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The BLM ?movement", which arouses such fervent antagonism by >>>>>>>>> David, has had worthy manifestations throughout the country, and elsewhere. >>>>>>>>> I have not seen the evidence that they were financed/supported by Soros >>>>>>>>> and/or specific groups. There were all kinds of participants in the >>>>>>>>> protests, aroused by the killing of George Floyd. David seems to relegate >>>>>>>>> the protests to a false issue; i.e., by ignoring willfully the crucial >>>>>>>>> class and revolutionary issues. It?s as if the mass protests were bad, >>>>>>>>> i.e., counterproductive. But they did reveal the pernicious actions of the >>>>>>>>> present system and the Trump government, viz Portland. As Karen noted:* ?Many >>>>>>>>> of the people protesting BLM are not part of or members of [a] BLM >>>>>>>>> organization, they are simply people opposing racism against African >>>>>>>>> Americans.?* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From Adolph Reed, 2018? in his conclusion: ? *that we recognize >>>>>>>>> that race-reductionist politics is the left wing of neoliberalism and >>>>>>>>> nothing more. It is openly antagonistic to the idea of a solidaristic left.* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *"Race-reductionist politics" *is simply a epithet: To whom are >>>>>>>>> race issues reductionist to the exclusion of all else? Is it just >>>>>>>>> that they are over emphasized by all who feel race issues merit emphasis >>>>>>>>> and discussion? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Let?s not go overboard. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 2020, at 3:11 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss < >>>>>>>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bob, I honestly don't think he'd change his general analysis in >>>>>>>>> any significant way in response to the current situation. He's done lots of >>>>>>>>> interviews that testify to that in recent weeks, see Jacobin Youtube >>>>>>>>> channel. Nonsite republished an article of Reed's from 2016 >>>>>>>>> , >>>>>>>>> with a new introduction by his co-conspirator Cedric Johnson. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:01 AM Robert Naiman < >>>>>>>>> naiman.uiuc at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is a misleading citation of Adolph Reed. He wrote these >>>>>>>>>> words in May 2018. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10624-017-9476-3 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 6:13 PM David Green via Peace-discuss < >>>>>>>>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Neoliberal anarchism. You can read it on their website. >>>>>>>>>>> Masquerading as "community". >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020, 5:09 PM Karen Aram >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I know, I understand. What is their stated view on the family? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 27, 2020, at 15:01, David Green >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Reed speaks to a broad audience, admittedly intellectual, but >>>>>>>>>>>> like Chomsky also to labor leaders. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In any event, I'm cutting BLM no slack. It's analysis is >>>>>>>>>>>> preposterous, with no material component whatsoever. It's stated view on >>>>>>>>>>>> the family is disgusting. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020, 3:42 PM Karen Aram >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> David >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand what you and Adolph Reed are saying, and it >>>>>>>>>>>>> should be noted, Adolphe Reed is African American and likely targets >>>>>>>>>>>>> African Americans when speaking. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me now express my simple interpretation and opinion: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> While we may not support the organization BLM given we know >>>>>>>>>>>>> they are funded by the DNC and Soros as they support neoliberalism, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> their criticism of Bernie for his stand on decommodification of education, >>>>>>>>>>>>> etc. was counterproductive to helping African Americans, as well as working >>>>>>>>>>>>> class white Americans, nonetheless I don?t propose opposing them. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Many of the people protesting BLM are not part of or members >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the BLM organization, they are simply people opposing racism against >>>>>>>>>>>>> African Americans, nothing wrong with that. Yes, when it first began those >>>>>>>>>>>>> of us opposing our many wars in the Middle East, and the massacre of >>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of Muslims, cried out ?all lives matter,? meaning ?what about the >>>>>>>>>>>>> millions we are killing now elsewhere in the world who are also not white?? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Today by saying ?Black Lives Matter,? it is now inclusive of >>>>>>>>>>>>> indigenous peoples everywhere, as opposed to just white lives mattering. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You are absolutely correct the many problems are a class >>>>>>>>>>>>> issue, not a race issue, and by making it just about race, not to negate >>>>>>>>>>>>> African Americans have been targeted and suffer worse due to conditions of >>>>>>>>>>>>> poverty and racist policy?s, continues to create division between the >>>>>>>>>>>>> masses and becomes counterproductive as it ignores the cause, thus >>>>>>>>>>>>> preventing solutions. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Promoting people of color to positions of power initially was >>>>>>>>>>>>> thought to be progressive, and it was as it provided opportunity to many, >>>>>>>>>>>>> but not enough, certainly not all, and it supports the power of the ruling >>>>>>>>>>>>> class providing them with tokens of diversity, as we know, power and money >>>>>>>>>>>>> corrupts. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> One would think the Obama presidency with his failure to >>>>>>>>>>>>> address the ills of African Americans, and working class, his expansion of >>>>>>>>>>>>> the Bush wars from two to eight, bail out of the banks and wall street, as >>>>>>>>>>>>> well as the implementation of the NDAA which now legitimizes the Trump >>>>>>>>>>>>> administration bringing federal troops into cities across the nation to >>>>>>>>>>>>> kidnap, incarcerate or just terrorize protestors, would make it clear >>>>>>>>>>>>> neither Party has concern for the lives of working class Americans. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The lives of the majority of working class Americans, whatever >>>>>>>>>>>>> their race, continue to deteriorate as we fight among ourselves. Therefore >>>>>>>>>>>>> we must keep our focus at all times on our system of capitalism as the >>>>>>>>>>>>> culprit in need of change. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 26, 2020, at 19:58, David Green via Peace < >>>>>>>>>>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Police violence correlates more with class than race. BLM is >>>>>>>>>>>>> in support of Democrats, who are equally if not more responsible for >>>>>>>>>>>>> neoliberalism and accompanying state violence. Trump is used to justify BLM >>>>>>>>>>>>> supported destruction in working class urban communities. We should oppose >>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump and BLM. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 9:52 PM John W. >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 9:40 PM David Green < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> davidgreen50 at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Corporate and foundation funded anti-racism, including BLM, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a bourgeois neoliberal project of the professional-managetial class, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including POC. It is fundamentally antagonistic to the working class. Thus, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should oppose BLM, which I do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ah. So boiled down to its essence and attempting to put >>>>>>>>>>>>>> matters into plain English, demanding that the police treat Black people >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same way they treat white people, and quit murdering unarmed Black >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people wantonly, is somehow antagonistic to the working class? Asking for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a friend, if I had one. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 9:32 PM John W. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't understand a single sentence of that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 5:10 PM David Green via Peace < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Notwithstanding its performative evocations of the 1960s >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Black Power populist militancy, this antiracist politics is neither leftist >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in itself nor particularly compatible with a left politics as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conventionally understood. At this political juncture, it is, like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bourgeois feminism and other groupist tendencies, an oppositional epicycle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> within hegemonic neoliberalism, one might say a component of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> neoliberalism?s critical self-consciousness; it is thus in fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fundamentally *anti-leftist.* Black political elites? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attacks on the Bernie Sanders 2016 presidential nomination campaign?s call >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for decommodified public higher education as frivolous, irresponsible, or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even un-American underscores how deeply embedded this politics is within >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> neoliberalism.? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>>>>>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 15:42:21 2020 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 10:42:21 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Reflections on a recent Greenwald interview about BLM In-Reply-To: References: <2bd909fd-673b-0085-32aa-79c9c6770608@forestfield.org> Message-ID: I don't care about the GP, and haven't had anything to do with it since 2016. Just like I haven't been a misogynist since 2014. On Sun, Aug 2, 2020, 5:40 AM Robert Naiman wrote: > Which is doing more to change history: Black Lives Matter or the Green > Party? > > > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 11:55 PM David Green via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> It's Anarcho-neoliberalism with an unlimited time horizon, in order to >> milk as much $ from foundations in the meantime. >> >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 10:43 PM J.B. Nicholson via Peace-discuss < >> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >> >>> Brussel, Morton K wrote: >>> > The BLM ?movement", which arouses such fervent antagonism by David, >>> has had worthy >>> > manifestations throughout the country, and elsewhere. I have not seen >>> the evidence >>> > that they were financed/supported by Soros and/or specific groups. >>> There were all >>> > kinds of participants in the protests, aroused by the killing of >>> George Floyd. >>> > David seems to relegate the protests to a false issue; i.e., by >>> ignoring willfully >>> > the crucial class and revolutionary issues. It?s as if the mass >>> protests were bad, >>> > i.e., counterproductive. But they did reveal the pernicious actions of >>> the present >>> > system and the Trump government, viz Portland. >>> >>> I was watching Glenn Greenwald's latest interview >>> (https://youtube.com/watch?v=I_2CVBN4mlo) which is with Andray Domise >>> (described as >>> "definitely a militant supporter of [Black Lives Matter]" at 2m40s). I >>> think this >>> interview eventually gets into something relevant to this discussion: >>> BLM >>> co-optation. I think this ends up backing up David Green's criticism of >>> BLM >>> (particularly when he wrote that "[BLM's] analysis is preposterous, with >>> no material >>> component whatsoever."). >>> >>> I think that Greenwald is too generous to Domise in trying to find a >>> nice way to say >>> that BLM needed to have announced what they stood for a while ago. >>> >>> I'm hesitant to recommend this video for running during either AWARE on >>> the Air or >>> News from Neptune because it's too long for what little value the >>> interview has. The >>> video is worth seeing for about 15 minutes worth of BLM critique >>> starting around 23 >>> minutes in, and for the talk after about 1 hour in. >>> >>> Here's some more detail on my take on BLM based on what I saw in this >>> interview. I'll >>> try to hit the highlights because, frankly, this interview felt to me >>> like quite a >>> slog to go through. >>> >>> >>> >>> I still don't know what BLM stands for even after watching this talk. >>> BLM's choices >>> strike me as indistinguishable from ethics-washing neoliberalism (I'm >>> not sure what >>> the right term is here, but I think of "ethics-washing" for neoliberal >>> interests to >>> be akin to what the term "greenwashing" means for businesses that >>> operate in >>> anti-environmental ways). I'm all for cops not killing people, but there >>> has to be a >>> plan of action to make that come about. It can't just be a vision with >>> implementation >>> detail left unsaid which is what gives me the impression the practical, >>> challenging-police-policy part is left out. And what's left (painting >>> slogans on >>> signs, floors, streets, and the phrase "defund the police") seem to me >>> to be >>> distractions. >>> >>> It's not clear to me how Domise holds the views he does and is still a >>> "militant >>> supporter of BLM". I doubt even he could give the 10-point list of >>> demands he said >>> BLM might need. Domise said, "I don't even know where a [Black Lives >>> Matter] >>> manifesto would begin...they [Black Lives Matter] have on their website >>> their policy >>> goals, their ideology -- everything is already there" which doesn't >>> address how >>> little any goals are seen in the protests on the street, what the >>> adversely affected >>> need now, and that goals without clear strategy reads as lofty ideas >>> with no >>> implementation details. >>> >>> Domise claims that BLM doesn't want to put effort into making "specific >>> and cogent >>> demands" because the media won't accurately echo BLM's demands. He >>> claims this >>> repeats an experience he had with his speaking to people at Occupy Wall >>> St.: >>> >>> > Domise: When I spoke to people at Occupy, they made a pretty >>> convincing case to me >>> > that, well, yes: it would be a lot easier for people to digest at home >>> if we had a >>> > crisp and tight set of demands. But then the question is, are those >>> demands going >>> > to be good enough? Are they [the media] actually going to repeat what >>> we say on >>> > the evening news? Even the things that we have been saying that we say >>> right in >>> > front of news cameras when we're being interviewed. They're getting, >>> let's say, >>> > like two-second snippets out of everything that we've just said and >>> they're >>> > describing us as being not only leaderless but pointless as well. And >>> I kind of >>> > got that; there is going to be that obscurantist mode that media takes >>> that even >>> > when you've done the work of making these very specific and very >>> cogent demands >>> > they're still going to make it seem like disorganized movement of the >>> disaffected >>> > and apathetic anyway. So I kind of get that. >>> >>> I found this to be a very revealing quote because to me it says that >>> BLM's organizers >>> haven't yet learned that in life you can only control what you do, not >>> what other >>> people do. You're always better off explaining what you stand for as >>> clearly as you >>> can (even revising it later as you learn more or are better at >>> explaining what's in >>> your head). By the same token, this is why I find that the best evidence >>> against >>> BLM's choices are found on their own website: there they have full >>> control over their >>> own message. No other media gets in the way of passing their message on >>> to us. Yet >>> there I find nothing specific, actionable, and cogent. Real-world needs >>> such as >>> Medicare for All, rent forgiveness/control/strikes, a universal basic >>> income, >>> guaranteed housing, and a national jobs program are all class concerns >>> that speak to >>> what we urgently need (now more than ever) yet go unaddressed on BLM's >>> website. >>> Community control over police is a good idea but going about getting >>> that is >>> difficult, even after the recent police murders. >>> >>> Later Domise said: >>> > Domise: I don't think you're ever going to be able to stop the process >>> of >>> > recuperation and co-optation regardless. You know, four years ago I >>> don't know >>> > that we would have seen corporations tweeting out and saying on >>> instagram, or >>> > putting in hashtags, "Black Lives Matter". But does that matter >>> anyway? That >>> > itself is the process of capitalist recuperation: that is, willing to >>> say the >>> > thing that you want to hear because it's going to adapt, it's going to >>> organize >>> > itself in such a fashion that it's going to tamp out resistance to >>> itself. So when >>> > corporations are tweeting out "Black Lives Matter" but then continuing >>> practices >>> > as status quo they're still lobbying the federal government for money, >>> they're >>> > still lobbying to keep the minimum wage low, they're still stamping >>> out unions >>> > does that actually make any difference? And I don't know that words >>> are going to >>> > be enough. I think it's going to be specific actions to limit the >>> power of >>> > corporations, to get money out of politics, to give more power to >>> people [...] >>> >>> I found this revealing too. Here are some points that came to mind >>> during this >>> section of the interview: >>> >>> - One problem with BLM is framing this in terms of "stop[ping] the >>> process [of >>> co-optation]" instead of asking why BLM's name is so easily co-opted by >>> the >>> establishment. Domise asked "does that [co-optation] matter anyway?": >>> Yes, if those >>> are BLM goals being minimized or rendered toothless in the co-optation. >>> Domise said >>> "I don't know that words are going to be enough". Words are enough to >>> indicate what >>> side BLM is on. >>> >>> If BLM had published a series of clear, specific, and actionable >>> statements on its >>> own website detailing what needs to be done and how to reach those >>> goals, perhaps it >>> would be much more difficult to co-opt what BLM was saying. For example, >>> I >>> occasionally hear BLM activists advocate for raising the minimum wage >>> but the action >>> on that comes from other activists that don't have any visible >>> connection to BLM. I >>> see nothing on BLM's website actionably describing steps to raise the >>> minimum wage, >>> create more (presumably worker-run) unions, or organizing people to >>> lobby their >>> Congresspeople to not give big businesses more money (ala CARES Act >>> largesse). >>> >>> Domise's framing helps BLM to try to make the task of being specific and >>> actionable >>> seem insurmountable or unnecessary, even unwise. And the results from >>> when BLM began >>> and now appear to be that there will be no serious policy changes in >>> police behavior. >>> Without serious police policy change and proof of compliance with the >>> new policy, it >>> seems fair to ask what BLM's goals are and how are those goals being met? >>> >>> - "Getting money out of politics" is a phrase I've heard before in >>> progressive >>> political interviews. I've yet to hear an interviewer require the >>> speaker to define >>> what that means or point out a direct conflict with freedom of speech. >>> It seems more >>> practical to me to come up with ways to deal with that than repeat this >>> long-repeated >>> but apparently inactionable catchphrase. Carl Estabrook came up with a >>> way to >>> accomplish this in the context of political candidates not being heard >>> from on TV and >>> radio: as a condition of keeping a public broadcast license, add a >>> requirement that >>> any public-airwave broadcaster must run during prime-time a 1-hour, >>> uninterrupted, >>> and uncensored piece from each ballot-qualified candidate who submits >>> such a piece to >>> be run. This allows political candidates running for office to get one >>> hour of >>> airtime that costs a campaign real money and helps the public who >>> sees/hears it make >>> a more informed choice when they vote. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Regarding this exchange when Greenwald pressed Domise to say what BLM >>> stands for: >>> >>> > Greenwald: [...] What, to you, are those really meaty critical issues, >>> like? What >>> > are the goals of this movement whether unrealistic but nonetheless >>> worthy to >>> > strive for and advocate, or actually realistic? >>> > >>> > Domise: I mean...If I was to say, for example, that the goal is the >>> abolition of >>> > police in the carceral state, a lot of people will say 'well, what >>> does that even >>> > mean?'. Well, it means the abolition of police in the carceral state. >>> It means no >>> > more prisons. It means no more police officers. It means that we are >>> able to >>> > manage our own affairs. 'Well, how do you get rid of police in the >>> carceral >>> > state?' You cannot have a system that doesn't produce criminals unless >>> you get rid >>> > of the system altogether which means ending capitalism. That means >>> realigning our >>> > social arrangements such that we are operating under a socialist >>> system. Is having >>> > a social system going to solve the cultural state? No absolutely not. >>> There are >>> > societal problems that we're going to have to address at the micro >>> level. So then >>> > the question becomes, well, how do solve all these problems at once >>> and you have >>> > to take steps towards it. So the tough part and getting to people to >>> radically >>> > reimagine our system of social relations is people are a lot more >>> comfortable, or >>> > I shouldn't say comfortable, but they're a lot more willing to move >>> away from pain >>> > than they are toward pleasure and the pain of unfamiliarity, that is, >>> what does a >>> > system look like without police, if you read "The End of Policing" for >>> example, >>> > there are many examples and many suggestions for which a system that >>> doesn't have >>> > policing actually looks. You know, who do we bring in in the place of >>> these armed >>> > agents of the state, the people that have the monopoly on the use of >>> violence? But >>> > getting people to actually read a book or getting people to understand >>> a different >>> > form of social relations -- people talk about, like you know, >>> capitalism and >>> > socialism et cetera as if it's economics, it's not, it's how we >>> related to one >>> > another. And I don't quite know how you do that. [...] >>> >>> and later when Domise offered some "steps that we can to get there if >>> we're talking >>> about specific policy solutions": >>> >>> > Domise: Well, I don't even think that taxing billionaires more is even >>> going to be >>> > the answer. I think having a strict set of guidelines, that is: a CEO >>> and the >>> > executive board [of a] company cannot earn more than this multiplier >>> of their >>> > workers. That bringing back labor power to the workplace where workers >>> can >>> > collectively organize without being undermined by their bosses. >>> [Example of an >>> > unnamed worker-led union being fired immediately after unionizing, and >>> he says the >>> > US needs "a real left party" if we're going to pursue policy changes >>> through >>> > electoral politics which he has abandoned] >>> >>> >>> - Domise's policy points are all given in the hypothetical. This left me >>> unclear as >>> to whether this is what BLM stands for or if this is what Domise wants >>> independently >>> of BLM. >>> >>> - It took almost an hour to get to this point. That is way too long to >>> get to >>> something approaching a description of what BLM might stand for. >>> >>> - Assuming, for a moment, that this is what BLM stands for, BLM is not >>> spelling this >>> out to their audience in their protests or on their website. But this is >>> an example >>> of a message which establishment figures would not have echoed >>> (co-opted) if >>> establishment figures knew that that's what BLM stands for. >>> >>> - I see some goals (such as having no police) but no means to reach >>> those goals. This >>> particular example is troublesome (see what David Green mentioned -- >>> Chaz/Chop was an >>> unmitigated disaster). Chop was arrived at undemocratically as well. >>> While having no >>> police might be realistic, it clearly needs to be thought through more >>> than it was >>> with Chop. And it's the responsibility of someone who advocates for an >>> end to police >>> to be clear about how police tasks will be handled. >>> >>> - "[A] system that doesn't produce criminals" would seem to mean >>> decriminalizing the >>> actions that we call criminal, but which actions are those? To me this >>> too needs some >>> more consideration. I suggest understanding why criminal acts occur and >>> addressing >>> those issues more specifically: if, for example, people are stealing >>> food to feed >>> their families, perhaps we should provide everyone with good food >>> gratis. Another >>> example of something to consider: Portugal decriminalized all drugs and >>> is using >>> police to help addicts get rehabilitation. This appears to have >>> significantly reduced >>> drug abuse. That seems more specific and actionable than what I heard >>> Domise say, >>> certainly something worth looking into for those who understand and >>> advocate for the >>> goals Domise described. I'm sure there are other 'threats of a good >>> example' we ought >>> to consider. >>> >>> - a more minor point: I think that Domise should get used to repeating >>> what he wants >>> people to know instead of glibly repeating the exact same words again >>> (as he did in >>> his own example of "abolition of police in the carceral state" and what >>> that means), >>> or laughing at the idea that we need policy decisions (which Domise did >>> just before >>> the last quote above), or pointing to a book (such as "The End of >>> Police") followed >>> by criticizing his audience for not reading that book. It's reasonable >>> to expect >>> people to ask you to explain what you mean when you're addressing >>> something >>> unfamiliar. I think there's a great agreement that we don't want to see >>> the police be >>> a killing squad. How to get there in a sustainable way and understanding >>> the >>> tradeoffs in denying the police that power will need some thinking >>> through and some >>> explaining. >>> >>> -J >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Mon Aug 3 03:06:37 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 22:06:37 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Dr. Francis Boyle interviewed by George Galloway from 2020-08-02 Message-ID: Dr. Francis Boyle interviewed by George Galloway https://youtube.com/watch?v=SoFgXs-qT8Q from about 5 hours ago Starts 1h 16m 08s into the recording Ends 1h 26m 47s into the recording Prof. Boyle discusses the US nuclear bombings of Japan at Nagasaki & Hiroshima, its legality (these bombings were not legal, they were war crimes), and necessity (these bombings were not necessary). -J From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 16:03:02 2020 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 11:03:02 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Tweet from Michael Tracey (@mtracey) Message-ID: Michael Tracey (@mtracey) Tweeted: If you?re still wondering ?what?s happening in Portland,? here?s the fundamental answer: White anarchists have seized the moral cover of ?BLM? to legitimize their insurrectionary agitation https://t.co/DutUnsPgL1 https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1290462609746124800?s=20 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carl at newsfromneptune.com Tue Aug 4 16:29:23 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 11:29:23 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Live Action News Daily Digest: August 4th References: <1596557722572.55410924-f2f7-4aa2-b129-e8cbb473024c@bf10x.hubspotemail.net> Message-ID: > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Live Action News > Subject: Live Action News Daily Digest: August 4th > Date: August 4, 2020 at 11:18:17 AM CDT > To: cgestabrook at gmail.com > Reply-To: info at liveaction.org > > > Hi C.G., > > We've got some crucial updates that we don't want you to miss: > > Dad Tells Sidewalk Counselor Outside Illinois Planned Parenthood: ?You Guys Changed Our Mind? > Pro-life sidewalk counselors make a huge difference in the lives of the men, women, and children they help outside of abortion facilities. This is the sole reason why abortion groups such as NARAL Pro-Choice America are working so hard to push laws that will ban the presence of pro-life advocates outside abortion businesses. Every baby saved from abortion is money their businesses don?t make. Read more > Pro-Abortion Nebraska Lawmakers Block Vote on Dismemberment Abortion Ban > Pro-abortion lawmakers in Nebraska used a filibuster on Wednesday to block voting on a bill that would ban dismemberment abortions. While Senator Suzanne Geist (R), the sponsor of LB 814, appears to have the support of the majority of senators, debate on the bill will only open again if she can secure 33 votes for a super-majority?a task that may be hard to do. Read more > Hours After a Florida Hospital Declared Him Dead, His Family Learned He Was Alive and Fought to Save Him > Jacob?s doctor told Kristen that her husband could not be treated anymore because he had been diagnosed as brain dead, but Kristen saw no visible signs of death. ?When I touched Jake?s skin it was normal. His skin was smooth and it was the same color it has always been. His body had no odor because his body was not decaying. His heart was beating on its own,? Kristen said. Read more > Thanks for reading! > > For the preborn, > > The Live Action News Team > > Live Action is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. Gifts are tax-deductible in the United States. > No goods or services are offered or given in exchange for contributions > > Live Action 2200 Wilson Blvd. Suite 102 PMB 111, Arlington, VA 22201 > > You received this message because you are subscribed to LAN Daily Digest Emails from Live Action. > If you would rather not receive this type of email, you can update your email preferences here or unsubscribe from all future emails. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Wed Aug 5 02:24:16 2020 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 02:24:16 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] An aniversary Message-ID: <7BE61C8C-34A5-4BC4-9618-447F2A863D89@illinois.edu> My contribution to remember the event f 75 years ago: https://consortiumnews.com/2020/08/03/atomic-bombings-at-75-john-pilger-another-hiroshima-is-coming-unless-we-stop-it-now/ >From the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, a more middling discussion: https://thebulletin.org/2020/08/what-europeans-believe-about-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-and-why-it-matters/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=MondayNewsletter08032020&utm_content=NuclearRisk_WhatEuropeansBelieve_08032020 Racism and the bomb: https://thebulletin.org/2020/08/memorial-days/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=MondayNewsletter08032020&utm_content=NuclearRisk_MemorialDays_08032020 And another, with personal narratives: https://consortiumnews.com/2020/08/03/atomic-bombings-at-75-trumans-human-sacrifice-to-subdue-moscow/ Enough! Now we are spending more, trillions, to prepare for the next war. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Wed Aug 5 23:03:12 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 18:03:12 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Coup talk: Venezuelan coup attempts effects, Elon Musk seems to trumpet Bolivian coup for lithium Message-ID: <4bc9b38f-aef3-ac6e-e8d2-c6a02f22b80d@forestfield.org> Elon Musk's recent response about carrying out coups for resources is getting some press. Max Blumenthal distributed https://nitter.snopyta.org/pic/media%2FEdvytarWoAIzHK3.jpg%3Fname%3Dorig which is a screenshot of an exchange between two Twitter users -- @historyofarmani and @elonmusk https://nitter.snopyta.org/historyofarmani/status/1286681257087303682 or https://twitter.com/historyofarmani/status/1286681257087303682 > Armani: You know what wasnt in the best interest of people? the U.S. government > organizing a coup against Evo Morales in Bolivia so you could obtain the lithium > there. > > Elon Musk: We will coup whoever we want! Deal with it. and then Musk later followed up again to add "Also, we get our lithium from Australia". As RT pointed out in https://on.rt.com/amks > Journalist Max Blumenthal claimed that Musk?s unapologetic tweet ?practically > takes credit for the Bolivian lithium coup.? > > Others described[1] Musk?s musings as ?flippant? and ?murderous and cruel,? even > as they acknowledged[2] his ?refreshing candor.? > > Not everyone took the Tesla CEO?s pronouncement at face value, however. Some > observers argued that Musk was clearly joking, even if his jest was in poor > taste. > > ?I get this is meant to be a joke, but this is really bad. Innocent people suffer > when military coups backed by the US happen. You are making light of that > suffering,? read one[3] reply. > > Bolivia?s former president, Evo Morales, resigned and fled the country last > November following accusations of election fraud. In an interview with RT, he > called the events ?a coup? aimed at installing a right-wing leader who will open > up Bolivia?s lithium reserves ? some of the largest in the world ? to > exploitation by industry. > > Earlier in November 2019, Bolivia axed a massive lithium project with German > company ACI Systems Alemania (ACISA). Although it?s true that Tesla receives > lithium from Australia, it is also said to be one of ACISA?s clients. [1] https://twitter.com/CharlesWeimer/status/1286895529067257857 [2] https://twitter.com/thebigpeezy/status/1286882246738272257 [3] https://twitter.com/MarxistChewbaca/status/1286876133330505728 There's no clear indication that Musk was joking; he took down the "We will coup whoever we want! Deal with it." post. Relatedly: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NxI5eZCrOI4 shows U.S. senators casually discussing US interference in Venezuelan politics where repeated (and, so far, failed) coup attempts have been made because "It will make a big difference to the United States economically if we could have American oil companies invest in and produce the oil capabilities in Venezuela" according to John Bolton speaking to Fox Business News (see https://on.rt.com/9n7i for more). Before COVID-19 "the Sachs/Weisbrot study [found] that US sanctions have killed at least 40,000 people in Venezuela" according to https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/14562 . This story still hasn't received much coverage on establishment media. From carl at newsfromneptune.com Thu Aug 6 03:09:18 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 22:09:18 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Ridiculous praise for John Lewis Message-ID: https://www.greanvillepost.com/2020/07/27/ridiculous-praise-for-john-lewis/?fbclid=IwAR37HiMboT9m1aWA-804EL0mMmx_48DH1lze8z0DAZEg95ijk_07x-hW_EA From jbw292002 at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 04:25:00 2020 From: jbw292002 at gmail.com (John W.) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 23:25:00 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Ridiculous praise for John Lewis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I thought you weren't a fan of propaganda, Carl. I thought you were an advocate of thinking for oneself! On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 10:10 PM C. G. Estabrook via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > https://www.greanvillepost.com/2020/07/27/ridiculous-praise-for-john-lewis/?fbclid=IwAR37HiMboT9m1aWA-804EL0mMmx_48DH1lze8z0DAZEg95ijk_07x-hW_EA > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Thu Aug 6 11:36:39 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 04:36:39 -0700 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Ridiculous praise for John Lewis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: John, This isn?t the best article, but its one of many written by Black Activists, in anger over Clinton?s disparagement of Kwame Ture vs. John Lewis. It?s not about the individuals as much as its about that which they supported. John Lewis chose to work within the system, and whatever his attempts may have been working within such a corrupt system, they were ineffective. All one has to do is look at the results. African Americans are worse off today than they were during the sixty?s. We as white people may not think so due to integration, diversity and the accomplishments of many African Americans, but they are a few in comparison to the many. Read what I posted in respect to a discussion in the early ninety?s by many Black intellectuals on this very topic, they can explain it better than I. Please see: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH67l9_Tk5g > On Aug 5, 2020, at 21:25, John W. via Peace wrote: > > > I thought you weren't a fan of propaganda, Carl. I thought you were an advocate of thinking for oneself! > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 10:10 PM C. G. Estabrook via Peace > wrote: > https://www.greanvillepost.com/2020/07/27/ridiculous-praise-for-john-lewis/?fbclid=IwAR37HiMboT9m1aWA-804EL0mMmx_48DH1lze8z0DAZEg95ijk_07x-hW_EA > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carl at newsfromneptune.com Thu Aug 6 11:38:22 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 06:38:22 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Ridiculous praise for John Lewis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not surprisingly, it gives an accurate account - unlike self-serving eulogizers. > On Aug 5, 2020, at 11:25 PM, John W. wrote: > > > I thought you weren't a fan of propaganda, Carl. I thought you were an advocate of thinking for oneself! > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 10:10 PM C. G. Estabrook via Peace wrote: > https://www.greanvillepost.com/2020/07/27/ridiculous-praise-for-john-lewis/ > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace From karenaram at hotmail.com Thu Aug 6 12:23:23 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 05:23:23 -0700 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Ridiculous praise for John Lewis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: John Another article is Paul Streets in Counterpunch: https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/08/05/misleaders-at-a-funeral-bill-clinton-and-barack-obama-eulogizing-racial-justice-in-the-name-of-john-lewis/?fbclid= I also recommend the Ajamu Baraka of the Black Alliance for Peace, and the Black Agenda Report where many African American activists write and express their opinions. Even local Sundiata Cha Jua had this to say: Sundiata Cha-Jua 6d ? We?ve been quiet and had chosen not to comment on John Lewis but the arch criminal neoliberal Bubba the bigot Clinton does not get a pass to attack Kwame Ture. Why do Black people not see this racist for who he is? The Clinton years were the fourth and fifth Reagan terms. The best we can say is that Lewis was a fighter, a stubborn warrior who held his ground?non-violent integrationism?in subservience to a degenerate racist capitalist empire. Lewis could not be moved by the evidence of the worsening conditions of our people, he was immune to new knowledge, he stubbornly stayed stuck in a 1963 dream despite living proof that it was really a nightmare. He stubbornly refused to move to 1966 let alone 2016. Kwame had his faults but stubborn refusal to make strategic adjustments to new situations was not one of them. America and Negro liberals can and should honor Lewis, he was a defiant warrior for their causes, not so much for us Black folk who desire to right the first wrong, the taking of our human right to self-determination. From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Thu Aug 6 13:28:21 2020 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 08:28:21 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] FW: Release - Vets group forewarns Illinois GOP candidates over 'Chicken Hawk Cheney' In-Reply-To: <5e120a5498ae674128082eabad77f432@em745.release.bringourtroopshome.us> References: <5e120a5498ae674128082eabad77f432@em745.release.bringourtroopshome.us> Message-ID: <001201d66bf5$74932c10$5db98430$@comcast.net> From: Bring our Troops Home [mailto:press at em745.release.bringourtroopshome.us] Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 5:05 PM To: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Subject: Release - Vets group forewarns Illinois GOP candidates over 'Chicken Hawk Cheney' Image removed by sender. open Release- Veterans group forewarns Republican candidates endorsed or financed by ?Chicken Hawk Cheney? BringOurTroopsHome.US says it will aggressively educate voters over obstruction of Trump's troop withdrawal and Cheney endorsed red-flag gun laws ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Unsubscribe Hello everyone, I am uncertain how I received this in my e-mail but I found it interesting and I thought I would share it. Sorry for the weird format of my message. David J. 08/05/2020 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 08/05/20 PRESS RELEASE CONTACT: Sgt. Dan McKnight info at bringourtroopshome.us (208) 917-3507 _____ Veterans group forewarns Illinois Republican candidates endorsed or financed by ?Chicken Hawk Cheney" BringOurTroopsHome.US says it will aggressively educate Washington, D.C. -- BringOurTroopsHome.US, a national right-of-center group of Afghanistan and Iraq war veterans, in a letter Wednesday urged Illinois Republican Congressional candidates to disavow any endorsement or contributions from Rep. Liz Cheney, R-Wyo., because of Cheney?s obstruction of President Donald Trump?s attempts to withdraw the U.S. from involvement in nearly two-decade old wars in the Middle East. ?I am writing you with a warning and a plea,? former Idaho Army National Guard Sgt. Dan McKnight wrote GOP candidates. ?Your campaign for Congress may be approached by or may already have been endorsed by Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming. I urge you in the strongest possible terms to reject any such endorsement. And if you have already received such backing, I urge that you immediately and publicly renounce it and return any funds she may have sent you.? McKnight also urged GOP candidates, if elected, ?to oppose the election of Rep. Cheney to any position of leadership in the Republican caucus. ?Her retention of a leadership spot in Congress is an insult to America?s veterans and all who value their 2nd Amendment rights.? McKnight said Cheney?s opposition to withdrawing U.S. troops from Afghanistan, Iraq, and other foreign civil wars ?put her at odds with the overwhelming majority of Americans, a huge majority of Republicans, and with President Trump.? McKnight, who was deployed to Afghanistan for eighteen months over a decade ago, accused Cheney of ?team(ing) up with Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats to deny President Trump the ability to draw down U.S. troops in Afghanistan and prevent the redeployment of American forces in Europe away from Germany, a nation that is wealthy enough to pay for its own defense.? He also attacked Cheney?s support for ?red flag? language in the National Defense Authorization Act that would ?give government bureaucrats the power to forcibly take firearms away from citizens due to accusations from third parties.? ?By applying this ill-conceived concept to all veterans,? McKnight wrote, ?Cheney has relegated veterans to little more than guinea pigs, test subjects in a move to have government remove firearms from the homes of citizens without cause.? ?I understand the pressure you will face from the entrenched forces in Washington, the major corporations that make billions of dollars every year on her endless war stand,? McKnight wrote. ?But I also understand that a significant portion of the people in your district do not agree and are adamant that America end the senseless deployment of our sons and daughters around the world while America burns at home.? McKnight concluded with some advice: ?Be advised that BringOurTroopsHome.US will be informing citizens of your district if you refuse to renounce Rep. Cheney. We will use all available forms of communication to inform the public whether you side with Cheney?s policies of endless war and increasing abrogation of our Bill of Rights. Please renounce any support you may have received from Cheney or her many political entities. Return any funds you may have received, or publicly donate them to a veterans organization of your choice.? He cited multiple polls indicating support among Republicans and Americans at large for ending U.S. involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq. * In April, Concerned Veterans for America released a poll which found that 73 percent of the 1,500 veterans and military families polled supported full and immediate withdrawal of all U.S. troops from Afghanistan, where I served for eighteen months in 2005-06. * In January, YouGov released a poll finding that roughly 70 percent of all Americans surveyed supported withdrawal of U.S. troops from both Afghanistan and Iraq. * Last October, Rasmussen Reports found that 58 percent of likely U.S. voters and 69 percent of Republicans agreed with President Trump?s statement that ?it?s time for us to get out of these ridiculous endless wars, many of them tribal, and bring our soldiers home.? * In June 2019, Pew Research Center found that 64 percent of veterans and 62 percent of Americans said the war in Iraq was not worth fighting, while 58 percent of veterans and 59 percent of Americans said the war in Afghanistan was not worth fighting. * In April 2019, Concerned Veterans for America found that 60 percent of veterans and military families supported withdrawing U.S. troops from Afghanistan ? meaning support for that position grew by 13 points from April 2019 to April 2020. * In January 2019, a Politico poll found that 81 percent of Trump voters supported withdrawing U.S. troops from Afghanistan. * Over Veterans Day in November 2019, a poll by Stars and Stripes magazine found that 84 percent of military service personnel and veterans agreed that the occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq have ?been going on too long.? * In March of this year, a Tarrance poll of Trump voters in the three swing states that gave him the presidency ? Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin ? found that 86 percent supported the President's withdrawal of U.S. troops from Syria, 62 percent supported withdrawing U.S. troops from Afghanistan, and 58 percent supported withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq. McKnight said that poll appeared to validate a 2017 study by Boston University and the University of Minnesota, which concluded that Trump's pledge as a candidate to end two-decade old wars in the Middle East and bring U.S. troops home was key to his winning those three states, where researchers found "a significant and meaningful relationship between a community?s rate of military sacrifice and its support for Trump." As the University of Minnesota reported: ?If just three states?Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan?had experienced moderately lower casualty rates, each might have switched from red to blue and sent Hillary Clinton to the White House,? say the authors. After analyzing election data at both the state and county level, the study?Battlefield Casualties and Ballot Box Defeat: Did the Bush-Obama Wars Cost Clinton the White House??finds that Trump made significant inroads in parts of the country that suffered disproportionately high casualty rates in Iraq and Afghanistan. These areas tend to be poorer, less educated and more rural parts of the country. Among the many implications of these findings are what this means for Trump?s foreign policy. ?Trump?s electoral fate in 2020 may well rest on the administration?s approach to the human costs of war,? Shen said. ?Politicians from both parties would do well to more directly recognize and address the needs of those communities whose young women and men are making the ultimate sacrifice for the country.? "Our statistical model suggests that if three states key to Trump?s victory ? Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin ? had suffered even a modestly lower casualty rate, all three could have flipped from red to blue and sent Hillary Clinton to the White House," the study?s authors concluded. "If Trump wants to win again in 2020, his electoral fate may well rest on the administration?s approach to the human costs of war." McKnight last month sent a similar letter to current Republican members of Congress, urging them to remove Cheney as a member of GOP House leadership. ?If you follow Chicken Hawk Cheney over the cliff of blocking President Trump?s effort to keep his campaign pledge,? McKnight wrote Republican House members, ?and force American troops and taxpayers to continue endlessly bleeding American lives and treasure into the sands of other people?s civil wars in the Middle East, you may squander your party?s longstanding relationship with veterans and military personnel and surrender any chance you may have of regaining control of the House of Representatives or keeping the White House in 2020." "Please chuck the Chicken Hawk," McKnight concluded, "and thank you for your consideration." Illinois GOP Congressional Candidates who recieved the letter from McKnight: Mark Curran- IL- US Senate Philanise White- IL-01 Theresa Raborn- IL-02 Mike Fricilone- IL-03 Christopher Lasky- IL-04 Tommy Hanson- IL-05 Jeanne Ives- IL-06 Craig Cameron- IL-07 Joseph J Hantsch- IL-08 Sargis Sangari- IL-09 Valerie Ramirez-Mukherjee- IL-10 Rick Laib- IL-11 Rep. Mike Bost- IL-12 Rep. Rodney Davis- IL-13 Jim Oberweis- IL-14 Mary Miller- IL-15 Rep. Adam Kinzinger- IL-16 Rep. Esther Joy King- IL-17 Rep. Darin Lahood- IL-18 # # # For more information: BringOurTroopsHome.US If you support our troops... Bring Our Troops Home 1850 North Lakes Place Meridian, ID 83646 ?2020, All Rights Reserved Paid for by Bring Our Troops Home Unsubscribe Image removed by sender. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: not available URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Thu Aug 6 14:07:11 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 07:07:11 -0700 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Ridiculous praise for John Lewis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: John I?m re-posting my previous statement as it was when cutting and pasting by FB links. Local Prof. Sundiata Cha Jua: "We?ve been quiet and had chosen not to comment on John Lewis but the arch criminal neoliberal Bubba the bigot Clinton does not get a pass to attack Kwame Ture. > > Why do Black people not see this racist for who he is? The Clinton years were the fourth and fifth Reagan terms. > The best we can say is that Lewis was a fighter, a stubborn warrior who held his ground?non-violent integrationism?in subservience to a degenerate racist capitalist empire. Lewis could not be moved by the evidence of the worsening conditions of our people, he was immune to new knowledge, he stubbornly stayed stuck in a 1963 dream despite living proof that it was really a nightmare. He stubbornly refused to move to 1966 let alone 2016. > Kwame had his faults but stubborn refusal to make strategic adjustments to new situations was not one of them. America and Negro liberals can and should honor Lewis, he was a defiant warrior for their causes, not so much for us Black folk who desire to right the first wrong, the taking of our human right to self-determination.? > Paul Streets article in Counterpunch: > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/08/05/misleaders-at-a-funeral-bill-clinton-and-barack-obama-eulogizing-racial-justice-in-the-name-of-john-lewis/?fbclid= > > I also recommend Ajamu Baraka of the Black Alliance for Peace, and the Black Agenda Report where many African American activists write and express their opinions. > From brussel at illinois.edu Thu Aug 6 17:34:53 2020 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 17:34:53 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Ridiculous praise for John Lewis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <916EAF60-F2D5-4848-93B4-3BFCC5A92CF7@illinois.edu> Paul Street is too often wildly off-key, as for example this phrase in his defense(?) of John Lewis: "the splendid Russian expatriate Masha Gessen ?. " She?s been part of the Russiagate syndrome! As for Kwame Tur?, I have now only vague memories of disappointment. On Aug 6, 2020, at 9:07 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss > wrote: John I?m re-posting my previous statement as it was when cutting and pasting by FB links. Local Prof. Sundiata Cha Jua: "We?ve been quiet and had chosen not to comment on John Lewis but the arch criminal neoliberal Bubba the bigot Clinton does not get a pass to attack Kwame Ture. Why do Black people not see this racist for who he is? The Clinton years were the fourth and fifth Reagan terms. The best we can say is that Lewis was a fighter, a stubborn warrior who held his ground?non-violent integrationism?in subservience to a degenerate racist capitalist empire. Lewis could not be moved by the evidence of the worsening conditions of our people, he was immune to new knowledge, he stubbornly stayed stuck in a 1963 dream despite living proof that it was really a nightmare. He stubbornly refused to move to 1966 let alone 2016. Kwame had his faults but stubborn refusal to make strategic adjustments to new situations was not one of them. America and Negro liberals can and should honor Lewis, he was a defiant warrior for their causes, not so much for us Black folk who desire to right the first wrong, the taking of our human right to self-determination.? Paul Streets article in Counterpunch: https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/08/05/misleaders-at-a-funeral-bill-clinton-and-barack-obama-eulogizing-racial-justice-in-the-name-of-john-lewis/?fbclid= I also recommend Ajamu Baraka of the Black Alliance for Peace, and the Black Agenda Report where many African American activists write and express their opinions. _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Thu Aug 6 17:52:55 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 10:52:55 -0700 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Ridiculous praise for John Lewis In-Reply-To: <916EAF60-F2D5-4848-93B4-3BFCC5A92CF7@illinois.edu> References: <916EAF60-F2D5-4848-93B4-3BFCC5A92CF7@illinois.edu> Message-ID: Mort Paul Street is often a bit off, of late, but he has also been spot on. He is only one writer in relation to this topic offering too much detail, but detail that others may not. I don?t recommend ever reading just one source, for the uninitiated. I take his comment regarding Gessen as sarcasm, but it matters not. As to Kwame Ture I have been posting his many podcasts and he is anything but disappointment. His statements in the recent debate make the point, in response to Angela Davis comment in the early ninety?s that ?African Americans are worse off than ever before." His response was ?we live in the best of times and the worse of times, yes African Americans are worse off, but their consciousness has been awakened.? He always offers not just the solution to racism, which is socialism, anti-imperialism, and an end to capitalism, the cause of exploitation. All of which is overlooked by the John Lewis crowd and those working within the system. Again, Prof. Sundiata, though somewhat critical of Kwame nonetheless calls out those who vilify him, while promoting John Lewis. > On Aug 6, 2020, at 10:34, Brussel, Morton wrote: > > Paul Street is too often wildly off-key, as for example this phrase in his defense(?) of John Lewis: > > "the splendid Russian expatriate Masha Gessen? ?. " > She?s been part of the Russiagate syndrome! > > As for Kwame Tur?, I have now only vague memories of disappointment. > > > >> On Aug 6, 2020, at 9:07 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss > wrote: >> >> John >> >> I?m re-posting my previous statement as it was when cutting and pasting by FB links. >> >> Local Prof. Sundiata Cha Jua: >> >> "We?ve been quiet and had chosen not to comment on John Lewis but the arch criminal neoliberal Bubba the bigot Clinton does not get a pass to attack Kwame Ture. >>> >>> Why do Black people not see this racist for who he is? The Clinton years were the fourth and fifth Reagan terms. >>> The best we can say is that Lewis was a fighter, a stubborn warrior who held his ground?non-violent integrationism?in subservience to a degenerate racist capitalist empire. Lewis could not be moved by the evidence of the worsening conditions of our people, he was immune to new knowledge, he stubbornly stayed stuck in a 1963 dream despite living proof that it was really a nightmare. He stubbornly refused to move to 1966 let alone 2016. >>> Kwame had his faults but stubborn refusal to make strategic adjustments to new situations was not one of them. America and Negro liberals can and should honor Lewis, he was a defiant warrior for their causes, not so much for us Black folk who desire to right the first wrong, the taking of our human right to self-determination.? >> >>> Paul Streets article in Counterpunch: >>> >>> https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/08/05/misleaders-at-a-funeral-bill-clinton-and-barack-obama-eulogizing-racial-justice-in-the-name-of-john-lewis/?fbclid= >>> >>> I also recommend Ajamu Baraka of the Black Alliance for Peace, and the Black Agenda Report where many African American activists write and express their opinions. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Fri Aug 7 03:43:01 2020 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 03:43:01 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Tweet from Michael Tracey (@mtracey) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99F954C6-46BF-4204-8E22-9242013182E8@illinois.edu> I find there?s something zany about this report, and its author, e.g., actions ?reported? by the police. Who are these anarchists he cites? I haven?t seen corroborating reports of the destruction of Portland. Has what Tray claims here (and in the National Review) occcured everywhere else at protests? To be on the same side as Trump (and his militia) regarding these protests doesn't smell right. I avow; since I wasn?t at the scene of the action, I really don?t know what transpired there. On Aug 4, 2020, at 11:03 AM, David Green via Peace-discuss > wrote: Michael Tracey (@mtracey) Tweeted: If you?re still wondering ?what?s happening in Portland,? here?s the fundamental answer: White anarchists have seized the moral cover of ?BLM? to legitimize their insurrectionary agitation https://t.co/DutUnsPgL1 https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1290462609746124800?s=20 _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 04:10:04 2020 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 23:10:04 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Tweet from Michael Tracey (@mtracey) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: He spent plenty of time in Portland's nightly milieu, which included him getting roughed up for asking the mayor a question about the pandemic. By the anarchists. He's documented the consequences of violence in poor communities around the country. He couldn't find any blacks who supported the violence or wanted fewer police. He's quite seriously the best journalist on these events, head and shoulders, because the better-resourced NYT etc. reporters have to follow the dominate corporate BLM party line. On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 11:03 AM David Green wrote: > Michael Tracey (@mtracey) Tweeted: > If you?re still wondering ?what?s happening in Portland,? here?s the > fundamental answer: White anarchists have seized the moral cover of ?BLM? > to legitimize their insurrectionary agitation > > https://t.co/DutUnsPgL1 > https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1290462609746124800?s=20 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Fri Aug 7 22:40:45 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 17:40:45 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Russiagate: The distraction continues from the US State Dept. Message-ID: A day without the US continuing the baseless conspiracy theory known commonly as "Russiagate" is like a day without sunshine. What began as Hillary Clinton and the Democrats' excuse for losing the presidency to a TV game show host has become many other things including a huge shifting of the goalposts (remember that the phrase du jour was "Russian collusion" where Russian state influence somehow put Donald Trump in office and how the establishment media quit saying that phrase after multi-million dollar investigations couldn't prove that case). Russiagate rationale has become an ostensible purpose for anti-Russian sanctions (which intentionally hurt the poor and constitute a form of war). Russiagate objections (no matter how unbased in fact) are the reasons for denying RT's journalists access to White House briefings (getting RT's press credentials pulled and forcing RT employees to do FARA registration). Many establishment news articles that fall apart on investigation -- Rachel Maddow, who made a career out of Russiagate support, claimed that Russia was going to turn off American's heat in the wintertime, the Washington Post claimed that Russia infiltrated America's power grid system via a Vermonter's laptop connection to the Internet. And now we're back to Russiagate's vague reports about how untrustworthy Russia is (each report offering either no evidence or claims that don't amount to evidence, each report raised without pointing out how untrustworthy the US government is). Here's the latest: Global Engagement Center's Special Report: Russia?s Pillars of Disinformation and Propaganda introduction page https://www.state.gov/russias-pillars-of-disinformation-and-propaganda-report/ The Report https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Pillars-of-Russia%E2%80%99s-Disinformation-and-Propaganda-Ecosystem_08-04-20.pdf Lea Gabrielle briefing transcript https://www.state.gov/briefing-with-special-envoy-lea-gabrielle-on-the-gec-special-report-pillars-of-russias-disinformation-and-propaganda-ecosystem/ RT's responses https://www.rt.com/russia/497231-us-russian-disinformation-report-stop-normalisation/ https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=0ISZtB6SttQ And the last time I saw Russiagate polled, it ranked dead last in terms of items of importance to most Americans. I'll bet that's still true now. Regardless of what you imagine Russia did, Russia didn't prevent Americans from receiving a UBI or Medicare for All in the midst of a pandemic. Russia didn't force bipartisan support for denying Americans a UBI or Medicare for All. Russia didn't compel the US from giving trillions to the wealthiest people and individuals and virtually nothing to most people who are in dire need of money to prevent homelessness, incurring medical debt, and to feed their families. What a distraction Russiagate is! -J From carl at newsfromneptune.com Sat Aug 8 01:27:43 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 20:27:43 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Connolly on killing Message-ID: <45E846D4-ED12-4940-A126-743E49C8FA98@newsfromneptune.com> An account of the Obama administration quotes President Obama as saying, "Turns out I'm really good at killing people ... Didn't know that was gonna be a strong suit of mine." (Mark Halperin and John Heilemann, "Double Down: Game Change 2012.?) In fact he continued to kill thousands ? including U.S. citizens and hundreds of children ? in his drone assassination campaign alone. But what makes ending human life wrong? Death is a bad thing because it deprives people of all the experiences, activities, enjoyments, projects that would make up their future personal life. A premature death is a bad thing because it causes the loss of future experiences, etc. But unborn children (fetuses) also have futures like ours, with all the experiences, activities, enjoyments, projects that would make up their future life. Abortion is wrong for the same reason that ending other human life is wrong ? it deprives the fetus of a future like ours. The question of when a fetus "becomes a person with rights" (Conception? Twelve weeks? Birth? Later?) is arbitrary, because a fetus always has a future like ours. We should be opposed to things that end human life ? murder, war, capital punishment, abortion, and euthanasia. The Irish Republican leader James Connolly (so badly wounded in the 1916 Easter Rebellion that the British had to tie him to a chair to execute him) wrote at the outset of the First World War, "One great source of the strength of the ruling class has ever been their willingness to kill in defence of their power and privileges. Let their power be once attacked either by foreign foes, or domestic revolutionists, and at once we see the rulers prepared to kill, and kill, and kill. The readiness of the ruling class to order killing, the small value the ruling class has ever set upon human life, is in marked contrast to the reluctance of all revolutionists to shed blood? (James Connolly, "Conscription," 1915). ?CGE From carl at newsfromneptune.com Sat Aug 8 03:24:48 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 22:24:48 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Race & class In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: TARIQ ALI WROTE 40 YEARS AGO? "C.L.R. James (1901-89) is now, by any standards, an old man. He appears somewhat frail, but this impression evaporates when he begins to talk. It is almost as if one is being transported back to the polemical debates and arguments of the Thirties. "James was born in the West Indies some 80 years ago. He came to Britain in the Thirties and soon developed a reputation as a sports writer and historian. "I had last heard him speak at the ?Dialectics of Liberation? conference in the Roundhouse in 1967. On that occasion he had clashed fiercely with the black American leader Stokely Carmichael. ?Race is decisive?, Carmichael had thundered. ?No?, James had replied with quiet dignity, ?it is class.?? ?CGE From karenaram at hotmail.com Sat Aug 8 12:28:09 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2020 05:28:09 -0700 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Race & class In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: They were both right at the time. Focus on "class" is necessary if we want change, especially today. At the time of their discussion race was as it had been for some time quite decisive in preventing change and the focus on it brought only change for a few, not the many. Carmichael was the first to say that throughout the 80's and 90's. To say he was wrong is to negate the fact that no one but Communists and academics were speaking of class, the majority of working class in the USA had no idea what was meant by class, keeping in mind Communists and Socialists were few in the US at that time, or were unheard, as a result of McCarthyism. If MLK had focused on class, he would not have been heard. Focus on race by African American leaders was the only way forward at the time. Carmichael aka Kwame Ture, focus was on African American people as those to bring about progressive change, and he was right, only a few today such as Ajamu Baraka are speaking out against what is taking place both here and abroad, speaking of class. Leadership will come from those most victimized that is the African American community. Both Carmichael and James focused on ending exploitation and imperialism so there is no need to point out their differences, rather focus on that to which they agreed. Academics only enlighten a few, as they speak to one another in hopes it may filter down. Activists, those who have been enlightened, speak to the working class in a manner they understand, in order to reach a goal. > On Aug 7, 2020, at 20:24, C. G. Estabrook wrote: > > TARIQ ALI WROTE 40 YEARS AGO? > > "C.L.R. James (1901-89) is now, by any standards, an old man. He appears somewhat frail, but this impression evaporates when he begins to talk. It is almost as if one is being transported back to the polemical debates and arguments of the Thirties. > > "James was born in the West Indies some 80 years ago. He came to Britain in the Thirties and soon developed a reputation as a sports writer and historian. > > "I had last heard him speak at the ?Dialectics of Liberation? conference in the Roundhouse in 1967. On that occasion he had clashed fiercely with the black American leader Stokely Carmichael. ?Race is decisive?, Carmichael had thundered. ?No?, James had replied with quiet dignity, ?it is class.?? > > ?CGE > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Sat Aug 8 14:02:07 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2020 07:02:07 -0700 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Race & class References: Message-ID: In relation to my statement below I recommend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4A1FArkJnE in which Stokely refers to the potential genocide of African Americans. He suggests looking at history the genocide of Native Americans, the Chinese, the Vietnamese and given the advent of technology Black labor is no longer needed, and the Black man is dispensable. Just as today we know the working class of all races is now dispensable. > > They were both right at the time. Focus on "class" is necessary if we want change, especially today. At the time of their discussion race was as it had been for some time quite decisive in preventing change and the focus on it brought only change for a few, not the many. Carmichael was the first to say that throughout the 80's and 90's. To say he was wrong is to negate the fact that no one but Communists and academics were speaking of class, the majority of working class in the USA had no idea what was meant by class, keeping in mind Communists and Socialists were few in the US at that time, or were unheard, as a result of McCarthyism. If MLK had focused on class, he would not have been heard. Focus on race by African American leaders was the only way forward at the time. Carmichael aka Kwame Ture, focus was on African American people as those to bring about progressive change, and he was right, only a few today such as Ajamu Baraka are speaking out against what is taking place both here and abroad, speaking of class. Leadership will come from those most victimized that is the African American community. Both Carmichael and James focused on ending exploitation and imperialism so there is no need to point out their differences, rather focus on that to which they agreed. > > Academics only enlighten a few, as they speak to one another in hopes it may filter down. Activists, those who have been enlightened, speak to the working class in a manner they understand, in order to reach a goal. > > > >> On Aug 7, 2020, at 20:24, C. G. Estabrook > wrote: >> >> TARIQ ALI WROTE 40 YEARS AGO? >> >> "C.L.R. James (1901-89) is now, by any standards, an old man. He appears somewhat frail, but this impression evaporates when he begins to talk. It is almost as if one is being transported back to the polemical debates and arguments of the Thirties. >> >> "James was born in the West Indies some 80 years ago. He came to Britain in the Thirties and soon developed a reputation as a sports writer and historian. >> >> "I had last heard him speak at the ?Dialectics of Liberation? conference in the Roundhouse in 1967. On that occasion he had clashed fiercely with the black American leader Stokely Carmichael. ?Race is decisive?, Carmichael had thundered. ?No?, James had replied with quiet dignity, ?it is class.?? >> >> ?CGE >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Sat Aug 8 21:07:37 2020 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2020 21:07:37 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Discussion after 75 years Message-ID: <5513252D-C16E-41BF-A303-F6C1010E554D@illinois.edu> A fascinating program that needs far more airing, in here especially, about what we know about early Hiroshima-Nagasaki issues. A thoroughly iluminating discussion with four historians, and questioners: https://consortiumnews.com/2020/08/02/atomic-bombings-at-75-scholars-speak-out-against-unnecessary-attacks/ As is emphasized, such discussions need broad exposure. For example, in physics departments!, political science departments, and with the APS, but much more in the media Is this a trigger?: 1.7T$ proposed and implemented for more and ?better" nuclear weaponry. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Sat Aug 8 21:11:48 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2020 16:11:48 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Tackling homelessness and why you can't trust the duopoly In-Reply-To: <8943ade0-2985-884e-b042-ca6fddf94a09@forestfield.org> References: <4e5c5d9a-d653-8c8c-5816-b0a0b73923f1@forestfield.org> <8943ade0-2985-884e-b042-ca6fddf94a09@forestfield.org> Message-ID: <45ead7bd-0090-4157-96d7-fcd71ca904be@forestfield.org> An excerpt from https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-07/survey-exposes-america-s-looming-rent-crisis > An estimated 27% of adults in the U.S. missed their rent or mortgage payment for > July, according to a nationwide survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau weekly > over the last three months. Among renters alone, just over one-third (34%) said > during the waning days of July that they had little to no confidence that they > could make their August rent payment, a stark measure of the ongoing economic > devastation for households stretched to the brink by coronavirus pandemic. > > The survey registers the deepest uncertainty across the South, where in some > states, more than one-third of renters and homeowners said they missed their last > rent or mortgage payment and would struggle to meet their obligations for August. > In Texas, for example, 39% of renters said they weren?t certain they could pay > their rent (or they were sure that they couldn?t). In Oklahoma, doubt has crept up > to 43%. > > The Household Pulse Survey[1] paints a picture of a nation veering toward widespread > financial precarity. Over the last 90 days, the Census Bureau conducted this > weighted survey by polling Americans weekly on their financial, physical and > mental well-being. The responses show large shares of Americans foregoing medical > care and many struggling with food insecurity. During the week of July 21 ? the > final week of the census survey ? an estimated 35% of Americans said they expected > to lose employment income due to the pandemic. One-third of respondents reported > feeling anxiety most days or every day of the week. > > The risks weigh differently for different groups. For example, 31% of Black > renters said that they were unable to pay last month?s rent, versus 28% of Latino > renters and 14% of white renters. It?s worth noting that the Census Bureau > provides estimates for adults, not households, which would provide slightly > different and perhaps more accurate estimates[2]. [1] https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/household-pulse-survey/data.html [2] https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/blog/using-the-census-bureaus-household-pulse-survey-to-assess-the-economic-impacts-of-covid-19-on-americas-households/ There are still no efforts from the two major parties or their presidential candidates to tackle this in a serious way via a universal basic income and Medicare for All. Congress seems to have established bulwarks in the House and Senate leaders who won't write or bring already-written UBI/M4A legislation to the floor. There are no efforts to recall Congress from their vacation to pass such legislation, even though we're still in a pandemic. From brussel at illinois.edu Mon Aug 10 03:24:07 2020 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 03:24:07 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?b?MTAlIG9mIDc0MEIkIOKApg==?= Message-ID: <177E5EB0-155E-470B-88AA-921910A94E02@illinois.edu> [http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/12152988a68a6d4dae7506812444c18f?s=50&d=monsterid&r=G] The Undoing Of Illusions: Notes From The Edge Of The Narrative Matrix by Caitlin Johnstone Governments have obscenely well-funded intelligence agencies that are literally dedicated to orchestrating secret conspiracies around the world, but if you say they might be conspiring in some part of the world people call you a mentally ill conspiracy theorist. ~ The fact that the Phoenix Program existed is by itself an unassailable argument for permanently dismantling the entire CIA. ~ A political establishment which thinks it's crazy and extremist to reduce a $740 billion military budget by 10 percent is a political establishment that should not exist. A political establishment which thinks it's crazy and extremist to reduce a $740 billion military budget by 10 percent can never and will never lead to a sane world. A political establishment which thinks it's crazy and extremist to reduce a $740 billion military budget by 10 percent has no business calling its members "moderate" or "centrist". A political establishment which thinks it's crazy and extremist to reduce a $740 billion military budget by 10 percent is a crazy and extremist political establishment. A political establishment which thinks it's crazy and extremist to reduce a $740 billion military budget by 10 percent is too crazy and extremist to be permitted to exist. ~ Democrats and Republicans are like male and female starfish; it's hard to tell them apart unless you're one of them. ~ Thought experiment: If you looked out the window right now and saw a mushroom cloud growing on the horizon, how would you feel about the way you've been spending your mental energy lately? Be honest with yourself. ~ The modern US imperial war machine kills more like a python than a tiger, placing less emphasis on the full-scale ground invasions of the Bush era and more on slowly suffocating the life out of targeted nations using sanctions, blockades, coups, psyops and CIA-backed uprisings. This is one reason to be dismissive of Trump supporters who say he "hasn't started any new wars". What they mean is he hasn't done any old school ground invasions. He's still attacking and killing with sanctions and blockades and imperiling the world with cold war escalations. ~ From 2021 until nuclear armageddon Biden will be sitting off to the side mumbling to himself as his brain turns to chowder while holdovers from the Obama administration orchestrate cold war escalations against China in retaliation for its 2020 "election meddling". ~ You will never, ever hate China enough to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US. Playing along with bullshit narrative spin hoping it will bring your jobs back will never work. You're just helping opaque government agencies advance their new cold war. ~ The dumbest thing about believing foreign countries attacked American democracy is believing America has any democracy to attack. ~ If we win this thing it won't be because conspiracy analysts showed everyone a bunch of complex financial connections or because Marxists put a bunch of theory in everyone's heads, it will be because clear, simple pointing helped everyone notice the fact that they've been duped. This fight isn't a game of addition, it's a game of subtraction. You're not trying to get the mainstream rank-and-file public to understand a bunch of complicated new information, you're trying to remove the blindfold so they can see something for themselves that they kind of already suspected was the case. Cripple public trust in the establishment narrative control apparatus and you remove the only obstacle that's been stopping the people from using the power of their numbers to force real change. They don't need anything new, they need to exorcise the lies that have blinded them and stop trusting in the words of liars. ~ All I?m ever writing about here is the undoing of illusions. The undoing of illusions about what's happening in the world, the undoing of illusions about the media, the undoing of illusions about society, the undoing of illusions about ourselves. If you're a lover of truth, it's all the same to you. ~ The world isn't happening the way most people think it is happening. Maturity is learning and understanding the multifaceted, multi-leveled ways in which this is the case. ____________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Wed Aug 12 01:11:33 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 20:11:33 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Kamala Harris is Biden's VP pick Message-ID: <59c96b22-4f0f-1ea7-3ac9-d948800346f7@forestfield.org> Kamala Harris is now Joe Biden's pick for VP candidate. Harris was rejected by Democratic 2020 primary voters, Harris' candidacy took a firm blow dealt by Tulsi Gabbard in the 2020 primary debates (entirely on the basis of Harris' horrible policy history), and now Harris is being put up for voters to reject again. Meanwhile, Biden recently confirmed that he will veto a Medicare for All bill that crosses his desk as POTUS. The Jimmy Dore show on youtube.com has been covering this with Max Blumenthal of The Grayzone (they're still live as I write this). There's sure to be a highly recommendable separate video coming from this. They play Gabbard's debate takedown, Harris being asked to watch herself lose on the debate stage by CNN and then react to it, what this means in the larger picture for the Democrats. They also cover the ongoing censorship across the establishment media in which they include Wikipedia. The best thing about Wikipedia is comparable to the best thing about Mozilla Firefox (web browser): they're both licensed to share and can be forked if you don't like their management. So as wretched as current management may be, you aren't left helpless. It's a matter of effort to make the tools they give you serve your interests instead of the establishment's interests. From carl at newsfromneptune.com Wed Aug 12 17:19:02 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 12:19:02 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Old white man and cop campaign to fight establishment References: <6753249476fcd9d02359150a6.8e884fe8e3.20200812163846.578c120b7f.c0d7d53e@mail98.suw13.rsgsv.net> Message-ID: <737B78DE-CD3C-4A5F-9F2A-18018AA71E7F@newsfromneptune.com> > Begin forwarded message: > > > > > Party Of The Poor And Oppressed Nominates Old, Rich, White Man And Cop > U.S.?The party that claims to represent minorities, the poor, the oppressed, and the marginalized has nominated an old, rich, white man and a cop, sources confirmed Tuesday... Read more > You Might Like > > > > > > > Biden: 'I've Selected Kamala Harris To Be Our Next President' > > Stacey Abrams Graciously Accepts VP Nomination > > Nation's IQ Expected To Rise 50 Points After TikTok Ban > You Might Like > > > > > > > Trump Generously Offers To Do Jobs Of Legislative And Judicial Branches Too > > In Teleprompter Gaffe, Biden Says His Vice Presidential Pick Is 'Insert Woman Of Color Here' > > New Evidence Shows Jesus Shut Down The Pharisees By Calling Them Marxists > You Might Like > > > > > > > > > > Was this email forwarded to you? Subscribe here . > > Need to update your email address? Edit your preferences here . > > Want us to stop emailing you? Unsubscribe he re . > > > Latest News | Store | Podcast | Download?App | Subscribe > > PO Box 546, Jupiter, FL 33468 > Copyright ? 2020 The Babylon Bee, LLC. All rights reserved. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 17:36:18 2020 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 13:36:18 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Thinly sourced allegations against Alex Morse are an anti-war issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In the last week, Democratic anti-war candidate Alex Morse, who is primarying Ways and Means Chair Richard Neal in Massachusetts? First Congressional District, has been the target of thinly-sourced anonymous allegations of sexual misconduct, printed in a college newspaper and then echoed in legacy media. The primary is September 1, but because of early voting and mail-in voting, we could say that the election is already underway. I live in a different Congressional district in Massachusetts, and I received my mail-in ballot today. It is well-known that there has been an erosion of due process culture among left-liberals in recent years, particularly with respect to sexual misconduct allegations. A sharp example of this is what happened to Senator Al Franken. Here?s why the Al Franken case is a particularly sharp example: 1. When Senator Franken was accused of sexual misconduct and some Democratic Senators demanded that he resign, he tried to insist on a due process right, which was a hearing in front of the Senate Ethics Committee. 2. Senator Franken?s insistence on a due process right was ignored, calls by Congressional Democrats for his resignation escalated, and he felt compelled to resign, which he did. 3. Later, Democratic Senators expressed regret about their role in not defending Senator Franken?s due process rights. 4. At the time of the allegations, Senator Franken was a national liberal political leader beloved by many liberals. 5. Senator Franken?s resignation was a loss to the anti-war movement, because he had been a vocal advocate for diplomacy with Iran and against U.S. participation in the Saudi war in Yemen. Franken was the second Democratic Senator, after Connecticut Democrat Chris Murphy, to take a leadership role in trying to end the Yemen war. The first three elements are prima facie evidence of a railroad: someone accused of something tried to assert due process rights, that request was ignored, later, people most responsible for honoring the due process request expressed regret that they had not done so. The fourth element makes it a spectacular case - the drama played out in front of all American liberals, and reverberations were felt even in the recent Democratic Presidential primary, when a candidate associated with the railroad was shunned by Democratic liberal donors who were still bitter about the railroad. The fifth element is strong evidence that anti-war people should care about these dynamics, even if only out of self-interest. Historically, left-liberals associated with peace and anti-war movements have felt a special responsibility to defend due process rights, because of the historical experience of the McCarthy period, when the due process rights of critics of the Cold War with the Soviet Union were violated. My grandfather Max Naiman was ?blacklisted? during the McCarthy period. He lost his livelihood as a lawyer, and went into the rug cleaning business. So he didn?t die. But the blacklisting of critics of the Cold War - particularly in the labor movement, Hollywood, and academia - largely destroyed the peace movement at the time and facilitated the Korea and Vietnam wars. In some ways the peace movement in the United States has never fully recovered from its persecution during the McCarthy period. This legacy compels me to try to speak up about the Alex Morse situation, in defense of his due process rights. In the peace movement, the entry-level activity when you see something unjust is ?be a witness.? So that?s what I?m trying to do. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carl at newsfromneptune.com Wed Aug 12 19:38:30 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:38:30 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Immunity Impunity References: <5f34415513e16_52c83ffcc099788c95765@ip-10-0-0-73.mail> Message-ID: > Begin forwarded message: > > From: PCAF > Subject: Immunity Impunity > Date: August 12, 2020 at 2:21:57 PM CDT > To: cgestabrook at gmail.com > Reply-To: info at progressivecaucusactionfund.org > > > (Source: JenSorensen.com ) > > Fight back against Senator Mitch McConnell?s plan to give corporations sweeping immunity from lawsuits related to COVID-19. > > Call Senator Richard J. Durbin at (202) 224-2152 and Senator Tammy Duckworth at (202) 224-2854. Please leave a voicemail or a message with a staffer. > > Tell them: "My name is CG and I live in CHAMPAIGN, Illinois. Companies that recklessly expose workers or customers to COVID-19 must be held accountable. Please reject corporate immunity for COVID-19." > > Then, help us tally your call and report on it here. > > Can?t call? Please share this comic on Facebook or Twitter . > > Thanks for standing up. > > -- PCAF > > > > Facebook - Twitter > > The Progressive Caucus Action Fund works closely with movement partners, researchers and progressive champions to enact bold progressive policies and build a strong, grassroots progressive movement. We bring together the collective wisdom of our movement to promote the policies that make a real difference in people?s lives and build economic, racial and gender justice for all. > Sent via ActionNetwork.org . To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Progressive Caucus Action Fund, please click here . > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carl at newsfromneptune.com Wed Aug 12 20:17:07 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 15:17:07 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Brigadier General Anthony Tata References: <7c1e5583cf821935a029077a24ff25b1@bounce.bluestatedigital.com> Message-ID: > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Tammy Duckworth > Subject: Brigadier General Anthony Tata > Date: August 12, 2020 at 3:03:58 PM CDT > To: Withdraw all US troops from the Mideast US war-making is criminal > Reply-To: tammy at tammyduckworth.com > > > > Withdraw all US troops from the Mideast ? > > The Trump administration has consistently gone out of their way to politicize our military ? and they?ve just done it again. > > The White House nominated retired Brigadier General Anthony Tata for the third highest civilian position in the Department of Defense ? but once we learned that he had shared Islamaphobic tweets and conspiracy theories in the past, they pulled his nomination before the Senate had a chance to reject him. > > But then the Trump administration went forward anyway and appointed Tata as Deputy Undersecretary of Policy in an ?acting? capacity with similar responsibilities, effectively circumventing Congress. > > This is totally out of line. No president should go around Congress like this. Sign my petition if you agree: > > Add your name if you agree that the White House should remove Tata from this post immediately. A president should NOT go around Congress like this. > Thank you for speaking out. > > All my best, > > Tammy Duckworth > > ADD YOUR NAME > > > > > Paid for by Tammy for Illinois > > Contributions or gifts to Tammy for Illinois are not tax deductible. This email was sent to cge at shout.net . If that is not your preferred email address, click here . Click here if you'd like to unsubscribe. We try to send only the most important information and opportunities to participate via email. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Thu Aug 13 01:14:42 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 20:14:42 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Recommended videos for AOTA & NFN timeslots Message-ID: <7798e6b1-d93c-8699-7280-62db85e5d7fe@forestfield.org> Videos I recently sent to UPTV's Jason Liggett for playing during AOTA & NFN timeslots. RT https://youtube.com/watch?v=iCEEFaP39K0 -- (28m 8s) Chris Hedges interviews Greg Palast on voter fraud and stealing elections. Transcript: https://www.rt.com/shows/on-contact/497436-voter-fraud-greg-palast/ The majority of this interview concerns how the Republicans are fixing the voting system against likely Democratic Party voters, thereby illegally and unethically increasing the odds of a Republican win. Palast says that this was behind Trump's 2016 win against Hillary Clinton and Palast cites uncounted votes in Michigan as an example. I'm recommending this interview despite one glaring problem with Palast's analysis: the Democrats don't give us evidence that they care about losing in this way. I don't concur with Palast's race-based explanation for why the Congressional Black Caucus (nor, apparently, other "progressive" Democrats) won't raise election problems as an issue. We got 4+ years of Russiagate and virtually no election irregularity analysis. Perhaps both arms of the business party are working well enough as-is regardless of which party wins, so there's no hurry to look out for the disenfranchised. Grayzone https://youtube.com/watch?v=Xpq4SNJNcmA -- (5m 10s) "Western media's favorite 'Hong Kong activist' is US regime-changer in yellowface" -- are "Kong Tsung-gan" and "Xun Yuezang" pseudonyms for Brian Kern? Grayzone highlights some connections which "would mean that Brian Kern is Kong Tsung-gan in yellowface" (as Grayzone put it at 2m38s in this report). Report: https://thegrayzone.com/2020/08/08/hong-kong-western-media-yellowfacing-amnesty/ https://youtube.com/watch?v=oEcuygrqTSE -- (14m 40s) "Twitter spreads nonstop US gov't paid propaganda, while falsely claiming it bans state media ads" Report: https://thegrayzone.com/2020/08/10/twitter-us-state-media-ads-voa-persian/ https://youtube.com/watch?v=qhNXrwRL5Ic -- (38m 56s) "US gov regime-change plot in Nicaragua exposed" Lee Fang/Intercept https://youtube.com/watch?v=AGplYzKYgyQ -- (1h 21m 39s) "Covid strengthens ruling class grip on the U.S." (Lee Fang sitting in for Glenn Greenwald) Jimmy Dore -- sequential segments of Dore's 2020-08-11 interview with Max Blumenthal https://youtube.com/watch?v=4uEGmRgBHvQ -- (10m 47s) "It's a Big Club & We Ain't In It!" on how the Democrats are running an ad which misrepresents George Carlin's routine, and how the Democrats and Republicans both mistreat girls and women. https://youtube.com/watch?v=kzuA3fjTUg0 -- (20m 6s) "Biden Pick His VP -- KAMALA Is A Cop!" https://youtube.com/watch?v=wlDXJbdkOas -- (15m 50s) "Kamala & Biden's Endless Circle of Hypocrisy!" Consortium News https://youtube.com/watch?v=iRGEp5_QX0Q -- (9m 5s) "Former Guardian Journalist Nick Davis: Crimes in the Afghan War Logs" From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 12:08:28 2020 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 07:08:28 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Immunity Impunity In-Reply-To: References: <5f34415513e16_52c83ffcc099788c95765@ip-10-0-0-73.mail> Message-ID: Please note that you cannot leave a voicemail at Sen Durbin's DC number. However, his Springfield office (217-492-4378) does allow the voicemail option. On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 2:39 PM C. G. Estabrook via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > *From: *PCAF > *Subject: **Immunity Impunity* > *Date: *August 12, 2020 at 2:21:57 PM CDT > *To: *cgestabrook at gmail.com > *Reply-To: *info at progressivecaucusactionfund.org > > *(Source: JenSorensen.com > )* > > Fight back against Senator Mitch McConnell?s plan to give corporations > sweeping immunity from lawsuits related to COVID-19. > > *Call Senator Richard J. Durbin at (202) 224-2152 and Senator Tammy > Duckworth at (202) 224-2854.* Please leave a voicemail or a message with > a staffer. > > Tell them: "My name is CG and I live in CHAMPAIGN, Illinois. Companies > that recklessly expose workers or customers to COVID-19 must be held > accountable. Please reject corporate immunity for COVID-19." > > Then, help us tally your call and report on it here. > > > Can?t call? Please share this comic on Facebook > > or Twitter > > . > > Thanks for standing up. > > -- PCAF > > > > > Facebook > > - Twitter > > > > The Progressive Caucus Action Fund works closely with movement partners, > researchers and progressive champions to enact bold progressive policies > and build a strong, grassroots progressive movement. We bring together the > collective wisdom of our movement to promote the policies that make a real > difference in people?s lives and build economic, racial and gender justice > for all. > Sent via ActionNetwork.org > . > To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop > receiving emails from Progressive Caucus Action Fund, please click here > > . > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Thu Aug 13 23:45:10 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 18:45:10 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Proper domestic priorities courtesy of Jimmy Dore's class-based framing of the issue Message-ID: <7ed6e504-9a49-b21d-147b-b7c4ee392838@forestfield.org> Jimmy Dore's remarkable take on which class is represented by the Democrat/Republicans (hint: you're not in it) where he also shows how the Republicans and Democrats effectively work together (this is not a new position). The two major parties are working for the same funders, therefore express the same interests in the same priorities, and domestically that includes never bringing up Medicare for All, a universal basic income, or a national jobs program, three things that could really help Americans right now. https://youtube.com/watch?v=JS0oOiOoGUg -- (7m 34s) Jimmy Dore: "Dems & Trump Want To Ban TikTok During Economic Depression/Pandemic!" Sources pointed to in this segment: What's important domestically: https://www.yahoo.com/news/nothing-compares-unemployment-filings-top-1-million-20th-124400780--abc-news-topstories.html > 'Nothing compares': Unemployment filings top 1 million for 20th straight week > > For 20 straight weeks, the number of Americans who have lost their jobs and filed > for unemployment insurance has topped 1 million. > > This unprecedented streak of weekly jobless claims has shattered all historical > records. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/09/opinion/evictions-foreclosures-covid-economy.html > The Coming Eviction Crisis: ?It?s Hard to Pay the Bills on Nothing? > > If the federal government repeats the mistakes of the last recession, millions of > Americans will lose their apartments and homes. What the Democrats and Republicans are working on now: https://abcnews.go.com/Business/president-trump-ban-tiktok-united-states/story?id=72115533 > President Trump says he will ban TikTok in United States https://youtube.com/watch?v=DPpYItDxMqU -- Video of Sen. Chuck Schumer saying "I have been very opposed to TikTok, I was one of the first to expose the Chinese links. And I have urged that TikTok be closed down in America..." Reaction from Twitter posters: https://twitter.com/ProudSocialist/status/1290082644072345601 Ryan Knight (@proudsocialist) > Chuck Schumer fighting harder to ban Tik Tok than he has ever fought for > #MedicareForAll or the working class. https://twitter.com/Jamie_Maz/status/1290019103080554496 Taylor Swift is Evelyn Hugo (@Jamie_Maz) > Trump calls to ban Tik Tok - what an idiot! > next day: Schumer calls for ban on Tik Tok > > Trump announces Space Force - what an idiot! > next day: Pelosi funds Space Force > > Trump: Build a wall! - what a racist! > next day: Pelosi gives Trump billions for wall https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1292533987496386566 Ken Klippenstein (@kenklippenstein) > Chuck Schumer is on fire this week [Includes two pictures in the Twitter.com post: https://nitter.snopyta.org/pic/media%2FEfAAz4qXsAEH2W7.jpg https://nitter.snopyta.org/pic/media%2FEfAAz4oWAAISejX.jpg But both pictures are more readily available on Nitter, a Twitter front-end, than Twitter.] (article from 2015) https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/schumer-ban-flavored-e-cigs-appeal-kids-article-1.2200061 > Sen. Chuck Schumer wants ban on flavored e-cigarettes that appeal to kids (quote from 2020 covered by multiple sources) https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1291781344725553153 > Chuck Schumer: "If we don't open up the schools, you're going to hurt the > economy significantly." -J From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 16:20:58 2020 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 11:20:58 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] My letter & Marty MacMarty article Message-ID: My letter, published August 9th: https://www.news-gazette.com/opinion/letters-editor/letter-to-the-editor-black-lives-matter-promotes-flawed-agenda/article_4a3253ef-2344-559c-98b3-9ce8426f6843.html The economic exploitation that has immiserated the working class for four decades has disproportionately hammered the Black community, even while many Blacks enter the neoliberal-enforcing Professional-Managerial Class (PMC). Those PMC actors who most support ?anti-racism? are least likely to support structural economic changes that would aid the unfairly demonized White working class and Blacks alike. The astute Black political analyst, Adolph Reed , labels ?anti-racists? as ?anti-leftist.? Along the neoliberal ideological spectrum, they are the Woke (dominant, identitarian) Left. Black Lives Matter neglects fundamental egalitarian reform while feathering the nests of directors, publicists, organizers, and affluent PMC adherents. BLM is a fundamentally reactionary, petty-bourgeois cultural/managerial/disciplinary Woke power play. Moreover, the violent accompaniment to BLM protests by mostly privileged, White Antifa/anarchist youth has wreaked permanent devastation on Black and minority communities around the country, something one learns only through independent media (Michael Tracey ). BLM promotes incoherent ethno-nationalist ?liberation? while labeling Black children as damaged at birth, once only done by White racists. BLM is misogynist, exemplified by references to ?Karens .? BLM is anti-family in standard, perverse PC ways characteristic of the Woke Left, promoting what were once racist stereotypes of Black parental social pathology. BLM will attempt to White-shame public school teachers into supporting its agenda, including Orwellian ?white fragility? and the wretched 1619 Project . Teachers and union reps should steadfastly resist this elitist, repressive, and reactionary agenda. Citizens who genuinely care about social justice should stand behind teachers and working-class children, who are faced by empowered and fanatical BLM/PMC class enemies. https://www.thebellows.org/the-new-cultural-revolution/ *The New Cultural Revolution* *The protests that have sprung up across the world share a certain class character with another famous uprising?the Chinese Cultural Revolution.* *By Marty MacMarty* August 14, 2020 The protest movements that have upended American life following the death of George Floyd have stupefied both pundits and ordinary citizens. In some ways, what we are witnessing is unique. But it is useful to compare this civic upheaval to another one, the Chinese Cultural Revolution that began in 1966. Though the ideologies and social context of the two movements differ, the class forces driving them are similar, and a close read of those forces can help illuminate the character and possible destinations for this kind of politics. *The class nature of the Chinese Cultural Revolution* The Cultural Revolution was arguably the second great catastrophe of the People?s Republic of China. It took place in the immediate backdrop of its first great catastrophe, the Great Leap Forward, Chairman Mao Zedong?s badly mismanaged attempt to rapidly industrialize a largely agrarian society, which produced the greatest famine in human history and killed tens of millions of people. In the fallout, Mao?s status within the Chinese Communist Party was reduced to a more ceremonial role, making Liu Shaoqi and Deng Xiaoping the President and General Secretary of the Secretariat, respectively. Though formally diminished, Mao?s influence remained significant as the founder of the state and Party Chairman. However, by the end of the Cultural Revolution Mao had returned to a position of de facto ultimate authority and his critics within the Party were either expelled or politically neutralized. *It was not a ?revolution? in the sense of overturning an existing order to establish a new one, but rather the return and reinforcement of a once-demoted regime. * The Cultural Revolution famously depended on college students and the Red Guards. The Red Guards began as an independent but politically-interested group of university students who supported a broadly Maoist cultural agenda. The formal alliance between Mao and the student movement began at Peking University with professor Nie Yuanzi, at the time a 45-year-old Party member in the Department of Philosophy. Nie vocally supported Mao?s removal of the mayor of Beijing and linked this to the struggle to remove bourgeois and capitalist elements from university administration. Once Mao officially blessed her statement, students began to organize and revolt against party authorities in universities across China. In this way, a political alliance was formed between the recently disempowered elite and educated youth and middle-class academics. After the Red Guards had received official support, they expanded beyond their original constituency of university students to encompass high school students and more lower class youth generally*. They took control of universities and engaged in purges and violence throughout the country. The army and police did not significantly interfere for the better part of two years, as the Red Guards were officially sanctioned by elements of the national government.* Party journalist Chen Joda lended a raison d??tre to the Red Guards, the abolition of the ?Four Olds?: old customs, old culture, old habits, and old ideas. None of these were well-defined, but the elasticity was the point. During the time in which this paramilitary group operated, art, temples, and religious icons were destroyed, cemeteries were desecrated, and university professors and intellectuals were persecuted or killed. Most universities were closed for several years, and it arguably took decades for China?s higher education system to recover. *?Struggle sessions? dominated much of middle-class life in this period. People would be accused by Red Guards of anticommunist thought or action, adherence to one of the hated Olds, and subjected to intense questioning and forced confessions. *These confessions, whether genuine or strategic, were no guarantee of safety: one might be kept for a period of repentance and hard labor, then later beaten or killed anyway. Once the paramilitary movement spilled out of universities, it targeted party headquarters and bureaucratic offices. The youth wing of the revolution became a para-governmental enforcement arm of the elite class (explicitly, Mao). This class alignment produced an inevitable outcome: the targets of this ?revolution? were not the uppermost elites, but middle management, bureaucrats, and systems of social control that intermediated between elites and the populace. The Red Guards were eventually disbanded and suppressed by the government and the People?s Liberation Army. Despite occasional and even significant Red Guard-PLA clashes, the military was never replaced as the ultimate power in the country. Many of the eager young ex-Red Guards were sent into the countryside on an extended mission of spreading Maoist thought, far away from the centers of power and where they could do less damage, Nie Yuanzi, the Peking University professor who began the movement, among them. *In a way, the Red Guards had served their purpose: the middle management of the country was properly chastened and afraid of their elite masters. The bureaucracies that mediated between elites and ordinary people were either in tatters or so cowed as to make direct control frictionless. In sum, an alliance between a disempowered elite and a mostly-young and educated lower-middle class (using the still lower-class youth as enforcers) upended the middle section of society?s bureaucracy, to long-lasting effect. * *The character of modern social movements* *The class forces of the Cultural Revolution were wielded by Mao in a bid to return himself to power. The class alliance we see in the civil unrest today is similar, but without a central leader or organization. In fact, it is hard to say who the leaders of Black Lives Matter are. The movement, such as it is, was begun as a twitter hashtag by Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors, and Opal Tometi. Yet none of these women have been visibly present in the current protests, nor have they been active in directing protests toward any particular goal. Ms. Garza has said that she is not interested in ?policing who is and who isn?t part of the movement,? and also that, ?we don?t control the movement.? * Over the years a number of groups have proposed various policy goals for BLM and have debated its efficacy (going back years). Critics and counter-critics alike have found themselves carving this or that section of the movement to try and lead, but any island of leadership never lasts long. *Leaderless movements have not yet been capable of restructuring political economies, but they have influenced how societies manage their populations.* *The Civil Rights Movement could hardly have been more different.* The individual leadership from Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, A. Philip Randolph, and the organizational leadership of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, the Southern Christian Leadership Council, and the Congress of Racial Equality lent both structure and strategy to the national movement. *But something in the fabric of society has changed between then and now. Among the many leaderless movements of the modern era?BLM, Tahrir Square, the yellow vests, the Hong Kong protests, and more?social media has played a central role. *Once upon a time it took a list of names and activists physically going door-to-door to amass people in, say, Zuccotti Park. Such limitations forced the formation of organizational structures and individual leaders. But now it is possible to create mass events before developing any such organization. In fact, such a structure can be a liability, slowing response time and leaving formal organizations vulnerable to rapidly assembled social media counterevents. *These fluid, leaderless movements have not yet been very capable of restructuring political economies, but they have had and will continue to influence how societies manage their populations. *The Egyptian revolution is probably the most powerful example, where two presidents may have been ousted, but military rule over the country is just as entrenched as it was before. *A Cultural Revolution without a Mao* It has been two months since the nation erupted in protests and riots following the death of George Floyd at the hands of law enforcement. In that time, the movement has spread beyond its initial motivating incident. Chicago experienced its deadliest day on record, prompting fear and alarm from city officials. *A portion of the city of Seattle was abandoned by police to protesters, who established a form of alternate society where several young people were shot and killed within a month. In Portland, a battle continues to rage over a federal courthouse. The police have withdrawn from some sectors of society, leaving people to plaintively put up signs ?Black owned business? and ?children sleep here,? hoping the mob will pass them by. *Across the country, businesses are shuttered and long stretches of American cities have been destroyed. Even if the movement began that way, these actions cannot be described honestly as protests over police brutality, despite staggering popular agreement on the injustice of the inciting incident. These are, rather, revolts against the government. Meanwhile, public monuments have been removed or defaced by protesters?from the toppling of statues of confederate general Robert E. Lee, to the beheading of Christopher Columbus, and even the dismemberment of the statue of an immigrant abolitionist who died fighting for the Union. Preempting any similar action, the American Museum of Natural History in New York City is voluntarily removing its statue of a horse-mounted Teddy Roosevelt flanked by a Native American and African man. Not even the great emancipator is spared: the Emancipation Memorial in Washington D.C. has become a flashpoint, with proposals for its removal, while a copy of the statue in Boston is now officially slated for removal. It is possible to construct a narrative around racial injustice if one only pays selective attention?after all, it is hard to muster up a moral defense for Christopher Columbus or the Confederacy. However, these targets exist alongside Abraham Lincoln, Francis Scott Key, and various religious statues. *Something strange is at play when both monuments to the Confederacy and to the emancipation of America?s slaves by the Union are under equal threat. That is, unless one considers what unites them: they are both public testaments to an old regime.* Beyond the struggle over public symbols, elite institutions have also been overturned. The New York Times was witness to an internal coup. The NLRB has loosened regulations on firings (to combat racism). A bevy of unorthodox employees (or merely those perceived as unorthodox) have been fired, including one data analyst who published research arguing that non-violent protests in the Civil Rights era were more effective than violent protests. *Many academic, upper class, and government workplaces have held mandatory racial sensitivity trainings, sometimes segregated by race. For the managerial class this movement has ushered in a changing of the guard and a new set of (constantly-shifting) rules.* These events parallel the chaos and class character of the Chinese Revolution, but without a clear elite figure whose interests the chaos serves: that is, without a Mao. *It?s worth noting then that tech and retail corporations were among the first to vocally support the BLM protests-cum-riots.* While the first fires were being lit in Minneapolis/St Paul, corporations were tweeting their support of the movement, and releasing public statements. Amazon, Microsoft, and IBM announced they would discontinue services to American police forces (not ruling out other state forces, domestic and foreign), while other companies made Juneteenth a paid holiday. All this has occured at the same time as massive layoffs due to the coronavirus economy, coupled by an expansion in corporate ability to fire people. Why would corporations support this movement, and why these corporations in particular? While President Trump has not had many keystone achievements, his presidency has frustrated the interests of certain economic sectors. The Trans-Pacific Partnership was scuttled as a result of the 2016 election, and Trump?s tariffs and trade war have harmed profits for many American businesses, even drawing the ire of Apple, the world?s largest corporation by market cap. Corporations like Apple operate under a business model that relies on cheap manufacturing labor, primarily in China, and a large external market, primarily in America. Businesses operating under this model have had their profits decline under Trump?s tariffs. *For these corporations, this revolution is more about returning transnational capital to a place of unquestioned primacy than it is about protesting the abuses of police power. If Trump can be cowed (or better still?removed), then his policies that have ever-so-slightly slowed capital accumulation in the tech and retail sectors (which have become deeply intertwined) can be reversed.* Occasionally, this alliance is elevated from subtext into text: Upon disbanding, some members of the Seattle CHAZ/CHOP anarchist zone called for the revolution to continue by electing Joe Biden, a strange plea if read literally (police abolitionists asking us to elect the author of the 1994 Crime Bill), but entirely intelligible as one sector of class society trying to reinstall an elite class as their patrons. *Capital, then, is our Mao; these sectors of capital are the disempowered regime leaping at the opportunity afforded by the middle and lower-class youth revolt.* They wish to return to a position where they can make decisions unfettered by even mild rebukes to their interests (here in the form of tariffs), *and the educated but stagnant middle class want to improve their own position by toppling bureaucrats above them in the hierarchy. In other words: antiracism and police abolition for the managerial and lower classes, free markets and unimpeded supply chains for the corporate boardrooms.* *From formation to aftermath* *The American Cultural Revolution is a movement that looks like it has come from nowhere, but it began in academia, where it has been fomenting for some time.* A professor in Seattle was already subjected, over the course of six months, to struggle sessions by students and a formal investigation into his public opinions on a ballot initiative. The managers and institutions that have crafted the new cultural orthodoxy are currently in such a state of ascendance (backed as they are by capital) that they feel no need to hide their ambitions. *Nikole Hannah Jones recently admitted that her Pulitzer-winning New York Times?s 1619 Project is not factual history, but rather always intended to be propaganda.* If one cares about the integrity of history this is a travesty, but if one?s goal is creating a movement to chasten the educated middle class and reinstall a class of elite patrons, then this is fine. The upcoming presidential election offers no off-ramp here: Trump does not have a policy agenda so much as a series of instincts, most of which are directed toward his own self-aggrandizement. *Biden on the other hand, in his current state of cognitive decline, will merely be the face worn by the forces of capital within the now-unambiguous party of the rich, the Democratic Party.* As in China, *once this union of elites and the upward-looking managerial class wins the cultural revolution, its dogmas will become enshrined in the functioning of the state.* *Capital could hardly ask for a more fitting ideology for working class exploitation than the woke/BLM theory that has been developing for the past decade:* that society is just and good so long as people are materially deprived at racially equivalent rates. As such, *the new cultural revolution is not about the dismantling of social power relations, but rather about their renewal.* Like the Red Guards before them, the radicals behind this new cultural revolution will find themselves sent to less troublesome corners of the country once they have served their purpose. The aftermath will create a new orthodoxy and new financial and workplace precarity, legitimated through a new ideology. The only consolation for those of us unwilling to bow to transnational capital and its petit bourgeois enforcers is the fact that the same accelerated communication speed which allowed the swift formation of such horizontal, leaderless movements will cause them to burn out just as quickly?and much faster than in 1960s China. Perhaps in the aftermath, we can hope for and begin to work toward a true working-class movement. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Sat Aug 15 14:46:11 2020 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 09:46:11 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] FW: Dick Durbin- The Donation Tracker pulls all the donations your elected/candidate has received from groups fighting Medicare for All. Message-ID: <006a01d67312$d253ef50$76fbcdf0$@comcast.net> Illinois DURBIN, RICHARD J. (D) Up for re-election in November. Received $19,000.00 in flagged corporate contributions. Received contributions exceeding $200 from employees of flagged corporations that are funding OPPOSITION to Medicare for All - meaning they have joined the "Partnership for America's Healthcare Future," This new tool is gonna make insurer & pharma $$ straight-up toxic. The Donation Tracker pulls all the donations your elected/candidate has received from groups fighting Medicare for All. Screenshot your candidates' reportcards & reply here: https://tracker.healthcare-now.org Patients Over Profits Donation Tracker 2019-2020 Illinois DURBIN, RICHARD J. (D) Below you'll find a listing of donations this candidate has received from healthcare corporations and executives funding opposition to Medicare for All. Corporate Contributions lists campaign donations from corporations that are funding opposition to Medicare for All (meaning they have joined the "Partnership for America's Healthcare Future," or belong to an industry group like PhRMA that has joined the Partnership). Individual Contributions lists the total donations from employees of flagged corporations. NOTE: The Patients Over Profits Pledge asks candidates to refuse donations from only the top executives of corporations opposing Medicare for All . Click on the dollar "Amount" to see a full listing of employees who have donated from that corporation, to determine if the list includes top executives who violate the Pledge. Received $19,000.00 in flagged corporate contributions. Received contributions exceeding $200 from employees of flagged corporations. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Sat Aug 15 17:57:56 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 12:57:56 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Black Lives Matters: Glenn Greenwald interview of Andray Domise vs. BlackAgendaReport.com's assessment In-Reply-To: <2bd909fd-673b-0085-32aa-79c9c6770608@forestfield.org> References: <2bd909fd-673b-0085-32aa-79c9c6770608@forestfield.org> Message-ID: Brussel, Morton K wrote: > The BLM ?movement", which arouses such fervent antagonism by David, has had worthy > manifestations throughout the country, and elsewhere. I have not seen the evidence > that they were financed/supported by Soros and/or specific groups. There were all > kinds of participants in the protests, aroused by the killing of George Floyd. > David seems to relegate the protests to a false issue; i.e., by ignoring willfully > the crucial class and revolutionary issues. It?s as if the mass protests were bad, > i.e., counterproductive. But they did reveal the pernicious actions of the present > system and the Trump government, viz Portland. Reading a recent article by Glen Ford (from BlackAgendaReport.com) I think that David Green's assessment is looking more correct; check out Ford's informative and right-minded assessment of BLM's most tangible and specific achievement to date that I know of: ostensibly working on actual police reform in https://www.blackagendareport.com/reneging-george-floyd-promises-minneapolis-police-name-change-con . It's early days still and Ford writes that there isn't agreement across BLM that this is the right path to pursue: > Although some of the 14 Black Lives Matter chapters in the U.S. have refused to > endorse community control, the Chicago chapter is active in the campaign for CPAC > and the Los Angeles Black Lives Matter chapter favors community control of social > services, land and all other community resources, including the police. This article doesn't specifically address the same issues David raised, but Ford's article does cause one to wonder whose interests are served by BLM (and this is the aspect that struck me as being in agreement with David's advice on BLM). From Ford's article: > At the height of the Minneapolis rebellion a majority of the city council > announced they would move towards ?disbanding? their police force, in response to > Black Lives Matter ?abolition? demands. It turned out that what the councilpersons > were actually proposing was a name change, retaining a force of armed cops in a > new ?Department of Community Safety and Violence Prevention? with a ?holistic, > public health-oriented? mission. But even this palliative was too much for the > Minneapolis Charter Commission, which voted to delay putting the police > reorganization question on the November ballot, effectively killing the measure. > The city is currently required to maintain a set ratio in the number of cops per > resident. That Ford piece tells us more about what's going on than Glenn Greenwald's 1-hour+ interview (https://youtube.com/watch?v=I_2CVBN4mlo) with Andray Domise. Ford gets to important issues of actionable policy in far less time than Greenwald's meandering Domise interview. Greenwald never comes to terms with the huge gap between what the relatively radical things Domise (eventually) says he wants from BLM versus what BLM seems to stand for (vague sloganeering). Consider these goals from Ford's article: > The Twin Cities Coalition for Justice for Jamar (TCC4J)[1], which was formed in > the wake of the police killing of Jamar Clark in 2015, never bought into the city > council?s name-change game. ?The proposed charter amendment was at best a symbolic > gesture and at worst lessened police accountability for past and future crimes,? > the TCC4J?s Jae Yates told a press conference[2]. ?In opposition to the charter > amendment, TCC4J instead demands community control of police [CPAC], which will > meaningfully curtail the as of yet unchecked power of the MPD to terrorize Black, > brown and low income communities. The CPAC legislation puts all oversight of > police misconduct back into the hands of the communities that are being policed > and provides continuous engagement for community members to address grievances. > CPAC consists of a directly-elected all-civilian council, and has final authority > over discipline, up to and including subpoena power and the convening of grand > juries. In short, the CPAC legislation has all of the details that the city > council?s proposal lacked.? [1] https://northsideawesome.org/project/twin-cities-coalition-for-justice-for-jamar/ [2] https://www.fightbacknews.org/2020/8/11/minneapolis-proposed-charter-amendment-police-won-t-be-november-ballot And concluding that calls for "defunding the police" and "abolishing the police" actually serve the establishment's interests because they are being bent to the establishment's definition: > Unless Black community activists spell out precisely how security for communities > will be maintained, and to whom those forces will be accountable, the demand to > ?defund? the police -- like ?abolition? -- is an invitation for officials to > engage in word games, obfuscation and lies. As we wrote in the July 1 issue of > BAR:[1] > > ?Cuts in police budgets may rightly count as victories for the protesters that > demanded cuts (or, it may actually be the result of across-the-board cutbacks due > to collapse of tax revenues in the Great Depression Two). But diminished budgets > do not make the police accountable to the people or allow the people to reinvent > policing (or whatever folks choose to call the mechanisms of their security). > Transfer of duties previously (mis)handled by cops to more competent agencies is a > good thing, but will not result in People?s Power unless those agencies are > brought under community control, along with the police[2].? > > Thus, not only must we demand community control of the police, but also community > control of those social service agencies that purport to serve the community, and > to whom police funds would supposedly be transferred under a ?defund the police? > policy. > > As Frederik Douglass famously said: ?Power concedes nothing without a demand.? > Power will also use every opportunity to reshape people?s ?demands? that are vague > or open-ended ? such as ?abolition? and ?defunding? of the police. Angela Davis, > the prison and police abolition scholar most often cited by Black Lives Matter > activists, was on hand for the relaunching of the National Alliance Against Racist > and Political Repression last year in Chicago, and is 100 percent behind its > community control of police campaign. [1] https://blackagendareport.com/protest-and-power [2] https://www.blackagendareport.com/yes-defund-cops-and-put-them-under-community-control Perhaps there is more internal fighting inside BLM than I'm aware of, but from the looks of BLM's website and what I see covered in BLM street protests and on BLM's website, I am compelled to conclude that BLM is indistinguishable from a purposefully-vague establishment shill. This does not help the public because BLM backs (as BlackAgendaReport.com published in https://blackagendareport.com/protest-and-power and quotes again in Ford's latest article): > ??Reforms? that leave power in the hands of the oppressor and his flunkies succeed > mainly in making the enemy look good. It buys the oppressor more time to harm the > people ? which is what the Democrats were seeking when they adopted the vocabulary > of protest and embraced ?reforms? they had previously rejected in the face of a > Black-led popular insurgency. Movement organizers must avoid providing > opportunities for scoundrels, sell-out artists and Democratic Party operatives to > pose as friends of ?the community.? From carl at newsfromneptune.com Sat Aug 15 22:50:02 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 17:50:02 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Feast of the Assumption, August 15 Message-ID: Feast of the Assumption, August 15 "We cannot confess anything in regard to [Mary's] assumption more glorious than what we confess as our hope for ourselves: eternal life, which God himself wants to be for us. For the hope we have for our whole person in the unity of our existence ? that single existence which we explain to ourselves as a unity of body and soul ? is the resurrection of the body and eternal life. In our liturgical praise of the assumption of the Blessed Virgin we seek [speak?] only of the one act of God in regard to that one person, but it is something that we likewise expect for ourselves. Ultimately, nothing more is said of her than what God one day, we hope, will say to us?We profess our faith in the permanent validity of history as flesh and blood; we profess our hope and love for the earth, which is not merely the parade ground or theater for our spiritual life, to be abandoned as soon as finality supervenes, and which perhaps itself, even though radically transformed, enters equally with the person?s spirit into the glory of the eternal God. "We acknowledge the dignity of the body, which is not merely a tool to be used and thrown away, but the historical, concrete reality and revelation of the free person who is realized in it and works within it for the finality of its freedom?this feast tells us that those whom God loves are redeemed, are saved, are finally themselves; they are so with their concrete history, with their whole bodily nature in which alone a person is truly himself. He is not a ?ghost,? not a ?soul,? but a human being completely saved. Everything remains. We can?t imagine it. Of course not. All talk about the soul in bliss, the glorified body, the glory of heaven amounts to the unvarnished, blind statement of faith: this person is not lost. He is what he has become, raised up in the implacable obviousness and absoluteness of the living God, raised up in the transcendent, ineffable mystery we call God. "We can?t say more than this. We don?t try to paint a picture, we don?t imagine anything. Everything has gone through the harsh transformation we call death. What else could we say except that death is not the last word ? or rather that it is our last word, but not God?s." --Karl Rahner, SJ From r-szoke at illinois.edu Sun Aug 16 00:53:22 2020 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 00:53:22 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Hotwords: infantilism, paraphilia, obscurantism, obfuscate, bamboozle Message-ID: Hotwords 081520 An occasional review of some terms useful in political analysis & polemics infantilism, paraphilia, obscurantism, obfuscate, bamboozle INFANTILISM n. 1. The existence of juvenile physical or psychological characteristics in an adult, as from failure to develop secondary sexual characteristics. 2.a. Marked immaturity, as in behavior or character. b. An infantile act or remark. 3. A condition in which one desires to act or be treated like a baby, sometimes associated with a paraphilia.* ? American Heritage? Dictionary > 1.a. a condition in which an older child or adult is mentally or physically undeveloped b. isolated instances of infantile behaviour in mature persons 2. childish speech; baby talk ? Collins English Dictionary 1. the persistence in an adult of markedly childish anatomical, physiological, or psychological characteristics. 2. an infantile act, trait, etc. ? Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary > the condition of one who is not a child acting abnormally childlike. [ pouting, whining, shrieking, tantrums, etc. ? RSz. ] * PARAPHILIA 1. A condition, such as exhibitionism or masochism, in which sexual gratification is derived from activities or fantasies that are generally regarded as atypical or deviant. 2. Such a condition when it causes distress or impaired functioning in the individual or actual or potential harm to others; a paraphilic disorder. ? American Heritage? Dictionary > (Psychiatry) any abnormal sexual behaviour; sexual anomaly or deviation ? Collins English Dictionary the practice of, indulgence in, or addiction to unusual sexual activities. ? paraphilic, adj. See also: Sex ?Ologies & -Isms OBSCURANTISM n. 1. The principles or practice of obscurants. 2. A policy of withholding information from the public. 3. a. A style in art and literature characterized by deliberate vagueness or obliqueness. b. An example or instance of this style. // 1. opposition to the increase and spread of knowledge. 2. deliberate obscurity or evasion of clarity. ? Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary // the use of argument intended to prevent enlightenment or to hinder the process of knowledge and wisdom. OBFUSCATE tr.v. 1. To make so confused or opaque as to be difficult to perceive or understand: "A great effort was made ... to obscure or obfuscate the truth" (Robert Conquest). 2. To render indistinct or dim; darken: The fog obfuscated the shore. ? American Heritage? Dictionary n the act or an instance of making something obscure, dark, or difficult to understand ? Collins English Dictionary // the process of darkening or obscuring so as to hinder ready analysis. => Sometimes seen on a wall plaque in days of yore: ESCHEW OBFUSCATION BAMBOOZLE tr.v. Informal 1. To deceive or dupe; hoodwink. See Synonyms at deceive. 2. To confuse; bewilder. ? American Heritage? Dictionary 1. to cheat; mislead 2. to confuse ? Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary 1. to deceive or get the better of by underhandedness; hoodwink. 2. to perplex; mystify. 3. to practice trickery, deception, or the like. ? from the online Free Dictionary by Farlex (q.v.) ?? => See the Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark (1996), p. 241. Frequently noted (by Sagan, Mark Twain & others): It is usually far easier to con & bamboozle people than to get them to admit they have been bamboozled. (?I?m much too smart, knowledgable & sophisticated to fall for THAT!? ) ~~ RSz. From r-szoke at illinois.edu Sun Aug 16 00:53:22 2020 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 00:53:22 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Hotwords: infantilism, paraphilia, obscurantism, obfuscate, bamboozle Message-ID: Hotwords 081520 An occasional review of some terms useful in political analysis & polemics infantilism, paraphilia, obscurantism, obfuscate, bamboozle INFANTILISM n. 1. The existence of juvenile physical or psychological characteristics in an adult, as from failure to develop secondary sexual characteristics. 2.a. Marked immaturity, as in behavior or character. b. An infantile act or remark. 3. A condition in which one desires to act or be treated like a baby, sometimes associated with a paraphilia.* ? American Heritage? Dictionary > 1.a. a condition in which an older child or adult is mentally or physically undeveloped b. isolated instances of infantile behaviour in mature persons 2. childish speech; baby talk ? Collins English Dictionary 1. the persistence in an adult of markedly childish anatomical, physiological, or psychological characteristics. 2. an infantile act, trait, etc. ? Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary > the condition of one who is not a child acting abnormally childlike. [ pouting, whining, shrieking, tantrums, etc. ? RSz. ] * PARAPHILIA 1. A condition, such as exhibitionism or masochism, in which sexual gratification is derived from activities or fantasies that are generally regarded as atypical or deviant. 2. Such a condition when it causes distress or impaired functioning in the individual or actual or potential harm to others; a paraphilic disorder. ? American Heritage? Dictionary > (Psychiatry) any abnormal sexual behaviour; sexual anomaly or deviation ? Collins English Dictionary the practice of, indulgence in, or addiction to unusual sexual activities. ? paraphilic, adj. See also: Sex ?Ologies & -Isms OBSCURANTISM n. 1. The principles or practice of obscurants. 2. A policy of withholding information from the public. 3. a. A style in art and literature characterized by deliberate vagueness or obliqueness. b. An example or instance of this style. // 1. opposition to the increase and spread of knowledge. 2. deliberate obscurity or evasion of clarity. ? Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary // the use of argument intended to prevent enlightenment or to hinder the process of knowledge and wisdom. OBFUSCATE tr.v. 1. To make so confused or opaque as to be difficult to perceive or understand: "A great effort was made ... to obscure or obfuscate the truth" (Robert Conquest). 2. To render indistinct or dim; darken: The fog obfuscated the shore. ? American Heritage? Dictionary n the act or an instance of making something obscure, dark, or difficult to understand ? Collins English Dictionary // the process of darkening or obscuring so as to hinder ready analysis. => Sometimes seen on a wall plaque in days of yore: ESCHEW OBFUSCATION BAMBOOZLE tr.v. Informal 1. To deceive or dupe; hoodwink. See Synonyms at deceive. 2. To confuse; bewilder. ? American Heritage? Dictionary 1. to cheat; mislead 2. to confuse ? Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary 1. to deceive or get the better of by underhandedness; hoodwink. 2. to perplex; mystify. 3. to practice trickery, deception, or the like. ? from the online Free Dictionary by Farlex (q.v.) ?? => See the Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark (1996), p. 241. Frequently noted (by Sagan, Mark Twain & others): It is usually far easier to con & bamboozle people than to get them to admit they have been bamboozled. (?I?m much too smart, knowledgable & sophisticated to fall for THAT!? ) ~~ RSz. From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 18:01:53 2020 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 13:01:53 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The Left Has Turned Into a Guild Hall Message-ID: The Left Has Turned Into a Guild HallIf you think the American left looks like an association of market actors, it's because it is. byOliver Traldi July 11, 2020 [image: The guild halls of Antwerp] The guild halls of Antwerp (Pat Miller / CC BY-NC-ND 2.0) https://www.thebellows.org/the-left-has-become-a-guild/ Three years after I took my bachelor?s degree in classics into what was at that point the worst economic situation since the Great Depression, many of my college classmates joined the Occupy Wall Street protests in New York City?s Zuccotti Park. A central criticism of Occupy was that it had unclear goals. As a response, one of my classmates drew a diagram. It had something like forty circles with words and phrases in them??white supremacy, ?the carceral state,? ?environmental collapse,? things like that?and arrows connecting them. *This is what it?s about*, the image was meant to say. *All of this.* And I think it also meant:* To understand what it?s about, you have to understand all of this*. I was thinking about this old chart as I watched a video of a few New York protesters berating a group of police officers for their lack of education. ?You guys go to clown college for twenty-six weeks,? one says in the video, and another cuts in, ?You know, a *hairdresser* has to go to school for longer than you do. Half of you don?t even have a college education . . . You can?t even read a fucking history book . . . You want to sit here and tell me that you?re educated enough to make demands about shit you know nothing about.? The sense in which it?s not an activist?s job to educate you is the sense in which your education serves to enter you into a certain kind of guild. The word ?educated? is a strange one. In this usage it seems to be halfway between ?aware? and ?trained.? The raising of awareness is, of course, a traditional activist goal. Being trained, on the other hand, provides a professional credential. The common online refrain ?It?s not my job to educate you? has come under fire based on the first sense of the term. If one is organizing for a political goal, it is in fact one?s ?job? to make others aware of the real-world conditions that motivate their organizing. We can understand the phrase better by thinking of the second meaning. The sense in which it?s not an activist?s job to educate you is the sense in which your education serves to enter you into a certain kind of guild. Your ability to understand what the activist is saying serves your interests, not the activist?s, because it involves tools that are useful for social and professional advancement. This explains why colleges have begun rescinding students? acceptances for things they say on Snapchat: such students clearly aren?t fit to be ?educated? at all, if these things made their way to administrators. Now most guilds are limited in their scopes of activity. Lawyers may try to persuade people that everyone should *have* a lawyer; doctors may try to persuade people that everyone should *have* a doctor. But lawyers never try to persuade companies that every employee should *be* a lawyer, and doctors never try to persuade companies that every employee should *be* a doctor. The guild we?re considering here?let?s just call it ?the guild? from hereon?does. It says that everyone should be in the guild. The guild says that in virtually any job, the better you understand the sort of diagram my old classmate drew, the better you?ll do that job. If you?re a programmer, it?ll help you see the biases of the algorithms you create. If you?re a professor, it?ll help you know who to cite and who to put on your syllabi. If you?re in marketing, it?ll help you avoid offensive missteps in your advertisements. And so on. Any job is a job for the guild. Of course, there are also what we might call ?core? jobs in the guild. The people holding these jobs are the ones who usually *are* ?educating? people: certain kinds of college professors, for instance, and absolutely certain kinds of college administrators, as well as the diversity consultants who run corporate sensitivity trainings and campus microaggression workshops and so on, and perhaps some journalists, and maybe the increasingly didactic comedians and talk-show writers who use their public profiles to lay out ?woke? talking points. The demands of a social justice movement often centrally feature the provision of new jobs for the guild. A campus group, for instance, might demand that the school require students to go through expensive diversity trainings or that the school hire a psychiatrist specializing in issues of racial or gender identity , a supplementary dean of inclusion , a set of professors who research and teach critical race theory, and so on. A movement against police brutality might demand that police departments undergo expensive, ineffective implicit bias trainings or that police officers be replaced by social workers with the right kinds of master?s degrees?of course in addition to other, more noble demands. This is why women and minority hires in academia complain of being ?ghettoized? into certain topics. We are 100% funded by readers like you.Subscribe to our Patreon today to keep the Bellows alive.SUBSCRIBE The recent Black Lives Matter protests have, for instance, led Stanford University to establish a new Center for Racial Justice and a line of ten professorships in ?Impacts of Race in America.? Meanwhile, the *Washington Post* is developing a ?Managing Editor for Diversity and Inclusion? job, as well as a new set of writer positions all framed around items like ?race and identity,? ?multicultural society,? ?white nationalism? (for a national security writer), ?changing demographic[s]? (for a style writer), ?communities of color? (for a climate writer), and ?the impact of structural and interpersonal racism on health and the sociology and psychology of racism and its impacts? (for a science writer). The guild?s existence and fervor probably traces back to the twin phenomena of the ailing economy and what Peter Turchin calls ?elite overproduction .? (Actually, this is a bit of a misappropriation, since Turchin defines ?elite? very narrowly?but the phrase is suggestive beyond its intended use.) Elite overproduction is exactly what it sounds like: there are more ?elites? produced by the relevant societal mechanisms, like ?education,? than there are positions that they can fill. One practice that has emerged from the reality of elite overproduction is what?s come to be known as ?cancellation.? Because labor is in high supply and jobs are in high demand, there is always a huge glut of guild members who aren?t employed to their satisfaction, and at the same time, no employer is irreparably harmed by the loss by cancellation of any particular employee. Because any job can be a guild job, and cancellations often occur for reasons only guild members are really able to explain, no cancellation can ever harm the guild, even though guild members themselves are not immune to cancellation (in fact, they may be more vulnerable to it). When someone is under threat of cancellation, they craft an apology. This is not to showcase their true beliefs. It is a last-ditch attempt to show that they can create guild-worthy documents and utterances. Standards for what is acceptable conduct and what is cancellable evolve constantly. This too is in line with what we expect in a guild rather than in, say, an ideology, a religion, an ethical system, or any of the other things that the guild has been proposed to be. Other professionals?doctors, lawyers, accountants?must always keep up to date on the state of the art in their fields. Why not members of the guild? The constant changes only increase the necessity and prestige of the ?educators? of the guild. Of course, the guild does inspire some kinds of beliefs?a *guildy* conscience, as it were. But it is not one?s beliefs that determine whether one qualifies for a guild job. It is the ability to shape one?s words and actions into works of the guild. When someone is under threat of cancellation, they craft an apology. This is not to showcase their true beliefs. Nor is it, as we sometimes say, a kind of ?struggle session,? or a ritual meant to humiliate the canceled and show their newfound obedience. At least not from the perspective of the canceled. From their perspective, it is a last-ditch attempt to show that they can create guild-worthy documents and utterances?that they speak as a guild member does. So while there is a sense in which a ?cancellation? is a kind of excommunication, there is also a sense in which it is a kind of disbarment. *You?ll never work in this town again*, the canceled person hears. The reality of the guild demonstrates the vacuity of certain criticisms of, for instance, campus culture, too. A certain kind of critic of contemporary student activists says: ?They?re going to learn real quick that this doesn?t fly when they get to the real world. They?ll regret wasting their education on this stuff.? But the guild is the real world. Cancellation is the real world. Ostracism from coworkers, friends, family, and potential romantic partners is the real world. The stakes are your ability to make a livelihood and your ability to have a life. And the successes of the guild are real. An intelligent person can pick up the fundamentals of computer programming in a summer either on their own or from a ?coding boot camp.? But the operation of the guild is social and must be observed and felt socially to really be understood?ideally in the opportune inclusions and petty exclusions of a prestigious liberal arts college or an Ivy League university. What?s next for the guild? Well, I assume it shall continue to recruit members for the rest of my lifetime, at the very least, regimenting the way they speak and act, especially in public and especially on social media, rewarding the most vicious among them and making everything in the world just the same as everything else. As a college education on the one hand grows more and more to be guild training and nothing else and on the other hand becomes more and more a prerequisite for any kind of work in at least the United States, a career, and even a job, will begin to look not like an obvious part of the life of a normal person but instead like a prize for those who behave ?ethically? enough, which is to say who attune their behavior most reliably to the dictates of the guild, to avoid public opprobrium framed in guild vocabulary. It is perhaps no coincidence that the idea of the middle-class life as a life of great privilege accompanies a situation of ever-increasing uncertainty for those who seek to have one. At the same time, as time passes, the sorts of things one needs to do and say to maintain one?s good standing with the guild will continue to change, in an organic process of weeding out those who cannot keep up and those who are aging out of the appropriate social milieus. This, of course, will as always be framed as a challenge to some distant oppressive power, but will in fact be only a reiteration of it. I for one cannot join the guild. It is not to my taste, it is not within my abilities, and I have said too much by this point in my life anyhow, and in the wrong way. Should you? Every day I see people who I know share my feelings about the guild, or even people who privately act in some outrageous ways and express some outrageous views, nevertheless satisfy its requirements on behavior very publicly and with flying colors. I speak to younger people, college students and recent graduates, who say they wish they had spent less time in school studying, say, mathematics or ancient languages and more time observing and emulating the guild-ridden social dynamics among their most outspoken peers. What I would love is to be able to say something like: Just because you can doesn?t mean you should. Don?t give in. Follow your heart. Do what?s right. But that?s what many of the members of the guild want you to do, too. More for them, if you do; more for them. I don?t know what?s best. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carl at newsfromneptune.com Sun Aug 16 18:05:25 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 13:05:25 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] I agree with Adolph Reed Message-ID: <8C2F45E2-F098-4C1E-952D-384CEC58777A@newsfromneptune.com> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/us/adolph-reed-controversy.html From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 18:41:53 2020 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 13:41:53 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] I agree with Adolph Reed In-Reply-To: <8C2F45E2-F098-4C1E-952D-384CEC58777A@newsfromneptune.com> References: <8C2F45E2-F098-4C1E-952D-384CEC58777A@newsfromneptune.com> Message-ID: Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor unsurprisingly chooses the safe, "guild" route; she wants to continue to be interviewed by Amy Goodman. Cornel West straddles the fence--he's been seriously criticized by Reed in the past--but tries at least to be a "unifier". Sunkara/Jacobin do the same, and although they are the editorial flagship of DSA, ultimately they won't be able to pull it off; DSA has been "occupied". People will have to decide whether to succumb to the DSA/ Maoist cultural revolutionaries. Thank God for Adolph Reed. It should tell people something, in corporate/establishment terms, that the News-Gazette allows Sundiata Cha-Jua to play the "radical" every other Sunday on their editorial page. He's not saying anything that threatens the local establishment, whether town or gown. What an intellectual travesty. On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 1:05 PM C. G. Estabrook via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/us/adolph-reed-controversy.html > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r-szoke at illinois.edu Sun Aug 16 19:06:15 2020 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 19:06:15 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Foreign election interference ? Message-ID: >From The New York Times: Russia Continues Interfering in Election to Try to Help Trump, U.S. Intelligence Says But a new assessment says China would prefer to see the president defeated, though it is not clear Beijing is doing much to meddle in the 2020 campaign to help Joseph R. Biden Jr. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/07/us/politics/russia-china-trump-biden-election-interference.html?smid=em-share From r-szoke at illinois.edu Sun Aug 16 19:06:15 2020 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 19:06:15 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Foreign election interference ? Message-ID: >From The New York Times: Russia Continues Interfering in Election to Try to Help Trump, U.S. Intelligence Says But a new assessment says China would prefer to see the president defeated, though it is not clear Beijing is doing much to meddle in the 2020 campaign to help Joseph R. Biden Jr. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/07/us/politics/russia-china-trump-biden-election-interference.html?smid=em-share From brussel at illinois.edu Sun Aug 16 19:39:33 2020 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 19:39:33 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] I agree with Adolph Reed In-Reply-To: References: <8C2F45E2-F098-4C1E-952D-384CEC58777A@newsfromneptune.com> Message-ID: <46463475-E44A-4719-92AE-75003CAA3ECB@illinois.edu> Nuance seems to be missing in these camps, ? guilds? Enlightening (to me) the article in the NYT, of all places. Is the NYT capable of change? I ?ve only been following David?s comments, which have seemed to me to be overly intollerant. One position does not nullify the other, completely? I?ve learned long ago that it was in the DNA of ?the left?, that they wouldn?t get their house together. Will young socialist tolerant ?youth? succeed ? Take a peek at France and its multitudnous leftist components. But I am more than sympathetic with criticism, i.e., merited, well informed, criticism. (: - ) On Aug 16, 2020, at 1:41 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss > wrote: Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor unsurprisingly chooses the safe, "guild" route; she wants to continue to be interviewed by Amy Goodman. Cornel West straddles the fence--he's been seriously criticized by Reed in the past--but tries at least to be a "unifier". Sunkara/Jacobin do the same, and although they are the editorial flagship of DSA, ultimately they won't be able to pull it off; DSA has been "occupied". People will have to decide whether to succumb to the DSA/ Maoist cultural revolutionaries. Thank God for Adolph Reed. It should tell people something, in corporate/establishment terms, that the News-Gazette allows Sundiata Cha-Jua to play the "radical" every other Sunday on their editorial page. He's not saying anything that threatens the local establishment, whether town or gown. What an intellectual travesty. On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 1:05 PM C. G. Estabrook via Peace > wrote: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/us/adolph-reed-controversy.html _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carl at newsfromneptune.com Sun Aug 16 19:50:04 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 14:50:04 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The Trouble with Disparity References: Message-ID: > > "Because racism is not the principal source of inequality today," argue Reed and Benn Michaels, "anti-racism functions more as a misdirection that justifies inequality than a strategy for eliminating it." > https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/08/15/trouble-disparity > _._,_._,_ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Tue Aug 18 23:05:24 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 18:05:24 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Good electoral analysis courtesy of BlackAgendaReport.com Message-ID: Here's a video I'm planning to recommend running during either AOTA or NFN from BlackAgendaReport.com: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsdUc0jY5CM -- (39m 44s) Left Lens episode 4: BlackAgendaReport.com's Margaret Kimberley & Danny Haiphong discuss "Why Trump Can Still Win and Why We Must Oppose U.S.' New Cold War Against China" This series is turning out to be a very interesting show, particularly if you've already come to appreciate the kind of reportage from BlackAgendaReport.com. I recommend watching this video if you're looking for some sound analysis on: - How Biden (contrary to polling and establishment media propaganda) could lose this election, and why. - Biden offers the American people nothing they want and need: Medicare for All, a national jobs program, or a UBI. - Pointing out the illogic of calling Trump 'the most dangerous president ever' while the Democrats go along with giving Trump everything he wants (and more, in the case of war spending). - Kimberley is one of very few people admitting what I too have found to be true: the Democrats don't care if Trump wins. This is why the Dems offer the public nothing (as Biden has said, "Nothing would fundamentally change" under a Pres. Biden per https://www.salon.com/2019/06/19/joe-biden-to-rich-donors-nothing-would-fundamentally-change-if-hes-elected/ among multiple other establishment media reports). - Tying together voter suppression (and how the Democratic party doesn't care about this voter suppression) and evidence-free allegations of foreign election interference (Russiagate expanding to include China and Iran) into a Biden loss/Trump win boils down to laying down excuses early for a perceived Dem loss. - Problems for "the Left" in their silence against the new Cold War against China. Discussion includes debunking distractions about how China (which seems to consistently be phrased as "the Communist Chinese Party" in establishment media) will 'get your data' while never acknowledging that the NSA/CIA (US government) has that data as a direct result of ongoing spying. We know more of this spying, in detail, thanks to whistleblowers including Ed Snowden, and reportage from WikiLeaks. Funny how that entire spying debate went from dismissing truth-tellers as 'tin foil hat' crazies to not debating the veracity of the claims at all because we have good evidence of how the NSA staff talk to each other, the CIA documentation of their spying work, and we can see reaction to countermeasures from small businesses[1]. We rightly dismiss anyone who doesn't take the NSA, CIA, and private firms (Apple, Microsoft, Qualcomm, etc.) ability to spy on people seriously. -J [1] I'd list IBM's latest POWER CPU change among these: POWER revisions 8 and 9 came with free software firmware (software which determines how the chipset behaves) and that choice made POWER CPUs very interesting to anyone seeking a fully-free software system. When IBM released POWER 10 (which just happened) the same organizations who were selling POWER 8/9 system now tell us that POWER 10 systems won't come from them. This change is likely because the resellers can't deliver the same software freedom under POWER 10 that they built their business on under POWER 8 and 9 CPUs. Proprietary software is spying-friendly, free software is not spying-friendly. From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 21:46:59 2020 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 17:46:59 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Impeachment-Nadler-Bolton=3A_Case_Stud?= =?utf-8?q?y_of_Authoritarian_Dynamics_in_Pelosi=E2=80=99s_House?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Impeachment-Nadler-Bolton: Case Study of Authoritarian Dynamics in Pelosi?s House Here?s another example of the authoritarian dynamics in Nancy Pelosi?s House. I came to my concerns about the authoritarian dynamics in Nancy Pelosi?s House through the issue of Yemen War Powers, and Constitutional War Powers more broadly. But it?s a much more general problem, and this is what I hope to show here. If it?s only an issue about Constitutional War Powers, then only people who care about Constitutional War Powers will care. If it?s a much more general problem, then other people might care, and maybe it?s more likely that we can do something about the issue by addressing it more broadly, which could be more useful in its impact on addressing the authoritarian dynamics with respect to War Powers than if one attempted to address the authoritarian dynamics with respect to War Powers in isolation. In what follows, I ask the reader to lay aside for the moment opinions about impeachment, John Bolton, and Jerry Nadler which are not germane to the matter at hand, which is understanding the authoritarian dynamics in Nancy Pelosi?s House. Recall that when John Bolton?s book came out, he said that House Democrats messed up the impeachment of Trump by focusing it too narrowly, and by not including the charge of obstruction of justice. During this time, the time of the Bolton book media blitz, I saw an interview by Jake Tapper of CNN with Jerry Nadler, Chair of the House Judiciary Committee. Jake Tapper put the question to Jerry Nadler directly: John Bolton says House Democrats messed up by making the impeachment too narrow and not including obstruction of justice. What do you think about that? Jerry Nadler looked very irritated and uncomfortable and deflected the question saying, we decided to focus narrowly, blah blah. I don?t remember exactly what Jerry Nadler said. I remember how uncomfortable and irritated he looked. I thought, watching, that I knew exactly why Jerry Nadler looked so uncomfortable and irritated and exactly why Jake Tapper asked that question of Jerry Nadler in that way. Jake Tapper had been following the plot at the time the House was considering impeachment, as I was, and so he knew that Jerry Nadler had argued strenuously at the time for an obstruction of justice charge but was overruled by Pelosi, even though Nadler is chair of the House Judiciary Committee, which is the committee of jurisdiction for considering impeachment. So if you unpack Jake Tapper?s question, what Jake Tapper was saying to Jerry Nadler on national TV was, ?John Bolton is saying that you were right and Nancy Pelosi was wrong. What do you think about that?? Of course Nadler can?t answer that question honestly on national TV, on national TV he has to present a united front with Nancy Pelosi against John Bolton?s accusation, even though the accusation is that Nadler was right and Pelosi was wrong. Even though Pelosi overruled him on a question that was ostensibly within the jurisdiction of the committee of which he?s the chair. Again: put to the side for the moment what you think about impeachment, Bolton, Nadler, and instead consider the dynamics. The Judiciary Committee was the committee of jurisdiction. But that?s not where the power was, that?s not where the decision was made. Pelosi decided what the scope of impeachment would be in consultation with Schiff. It was reported in press at the time. The House Judiciary Committee did not meaningfully participate in the decision. What do these dynamics mean for advocates? It means that if Nancy Pelosi doesn?t care about you, then your opinion on such questions doesn?t count in Nancy Pelosi's House. Jerry Nadler is chair of the House Judiciary Committee. Even his opinion didn?t count. What hope do the rest of us have? After the House impeached Trump over Ukraine, someone asked Pelosi why she hadn?t supported impeaching Bush over the Iraq War. She answered very directly: because she didn?t think that was an impeachable offense. Imagine. Even knowing what we know now, about what a catastrophe the war unleashed, about how the intelligence was manipulated, about how the case for war was a fraud, Nancy Pelosi answered without hesitation with her true views. In her view, it wasn?t an impeachable offense. Dick Durbin later said on the Senate floor that he knew as a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee at the time of the Iraq War vote in October 2002 that the Bush Administration?s public case for war did not match the U.S. intelligence reports he was seeing as a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. If Dick Durbin knew this, Nancy Pelosi knew it. But even now, even now, Nancy Pelosi says without hesitation that lying the country into a catastrophic war was not an impeachable offense. So suppose you were an anti-war advocate at the time the House was considering the impeachment of Trump, and you believed that there should be an article of impeachment against Trump for continuing unconstitutional U.S. participation in the Saudi war in Yemen, even after both houses of Congress voted against it and named the war as unconstitutional. How should you try to make your opinion count in the political system? I have no idea. The evidence suggests that making your opinion count on this question would be impossible in Nancy Pelosi?s House if you?re not someone that Nancy Pelosi cares about. Even Jerry Nadler?s opinion doesn?t count, and he?s chair of the Judiciary Committee. You could do all the petitions you want, write all the op-eds you want, have all the hearings you want, lobby all the members of the Judiciary Committee as much as you want, post online all you want. It wouldn?t matter. Nancy Pelosi doesn?t care what you think, so you have no say. There?s not much we can do about these dynamics right now, as far as I can see. But we could do something about them after the November election, and some group of people somewhere should be preparing for that. If you look at what happened last time, Nancy Pelosi was not initially unopposed for Speaker in the House Democratic Caucus. A bunch of people said they were running against her or were thinking of doing so. Nancy Pelosi went around and asked people what they wanted and negotiated deals. And that?s how she won effectively unopposed, because she had deals with everyone who threatened to run against her. Here?s the deal I would like to see. I would like to see a package of reforms of the operation of the ?Democratic-controlled House? in order to restore Schoolhouse Rock. Here?s the reforms I want on War Powers: 1. House Democratic leadership commits to the belief that Section 5c of the War Powers Resolution of 1973 is good law, as HFAC Chair Eliot Engel stated on the House floor in January during the debate on the concurrent Iran War Powers Resolution, unless and until a federal court determines otherwise. Here's Section 5(c) of the War Powers Resolution: "Notwithstanding subsection (b), at any time that United States Armed Forces are engaged in hostilities outside the territory of the United States, its possessions and territories without a declaration of war or specific statutory authorization, such forces shall be removed by the President if the Congress so directs by concurrent resolution." If Section 5(c) is good law, then we only need a simple majority of both houses to stop an unconstitutional war. That's not as restrictive as Article 1, Section 8, Clause 11 of the Constitution - only Congress can send us to war - but it's a LOT closer to that world then the world we're de facto living in now, where we supposedly need a two-thirds majority of both houses to override a presidential veto in order to stop an unconstitutional war. 2. House Democratic leadership commits to respect the intent of the War Powers Resolution of 1973 that a privileged concurrent War Powers Resolution is guaranteed a timely floor vote. 3. House Democratic leadership commits that going forward a resolution of disapproval on an arms deal will be privileged in the House according to the same procedures that are used in the Senate. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 13:26:46 2020 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 09:26:46 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] I'm very disappointed in the BernieBros Message-ID: I?m very disappointed in those few BernieBros who are still fixating right now on the Biden/Harris shiny object. The most important discipline of the BernieBro is to try to turn their attention to what?s most important at that particular moment, rather than follow the multitude to gaze at the shiny object. The Biden/Harris train has left the station. There?s nothing we can do about that now. WHEREAS, we could STILL defeat PelosiBro Richard Neal in Massachusetts One. Election Day is September 1. Voting by mail is already underway. Defeating PelosiBro Richard Neal, Pelosi?s chair of the tax code-writing Ways & Means Committee, is the most important thing BernieBros can do right now to change the terrain in favor of BernieBros and against Dem Establishment after the November election. Don?t like Nancy Pelosi? Help us defeat one of her most important lieutenants. Richard Neal is Pelosi?s bagman for collecting corporate cash from the fossil fuel moneyed interests. Want to end subsidies in the tax code for fossil fuel production? Help us set up a fight for the chair of the tax code-writing House Ways & Means Committee, like the defeat of Eliot Engel by Jamaal Bowman set up a fight for the chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. And if you care about climate change AND you care about Palestinian rights, then it?s a TWOFER. Because the challenger Alex Morse is a Jew who is an unapologetic defender of Palestinian rights. If you care about Palestinian rights, that?s a Gamechanger, because whether we like it or not, in Washington debates about Palestinian rights, Jews have more voice. Rep. Richard Neal Rakes In Fossil Fuel Money Ahead Of Primary With Green New Dealer The Massachusetts congressman is a top recipient of corporate donations, including from the company behind a disastrous 2018 gas explosion. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/richard-neal-fossil-fuels_n_5f3c1c79c5b683523602f109 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 16:59:22 2020 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 11:59:22 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Jewish Insider: AIPAC pouring 100K into attack ads against young Jew Alex Morse In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's good that Alex Morse supports Palestine, whatever that might mean in practical terms, both in terms of his own goals and that of the legislature at large. It's also good that Morse withstood a slanderous attack by the Woke: Here is an entertaining and informative podcast on the subject of the political effects of me-too-ism, which provides more support for the idea that feminist and gay have seen their day, while black and trans are at the head of the Woke Pack. https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5maXJlc2lkZS5mbS9iYXJwb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw/episode/ODFhNmQ0OWEtYjkxYi00Yjg4LWJlY2QtYmNhZWE0ZDA1NDU5?hl=en&ved=2ahUKEwijn6v3nqrrAhU5AZ0JHaM2CkYQieUEegQICxAE&ep=6 Regarding Israel, it's good that Israel is seen with a more open mind; this has been at least a 20-year process in the current iteration, dating back to the 2nd intifada in the Fall of 2000. Nevertheless, Wokeness has folded the Palestinian rights movement and strategy into another check on the Wokelist, related of course to virtue signalling support for BDS. In other words, there's not much to be excited about here in realistic terms, in relation to the Squad, Democratic Party politics, or foreign policy. When Palestine was added to the Woke checklist, any real, sustained interest subsided into the background. Locally, that would coincide with the rise and fall of Steven Salaita. I do, however, wish Alex Morse well; hopefully he is more intelligent and savvy than AOC, however low a bar she has set for him. DG On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:22 AM Robert Naiman via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > If you're an American who cares about Palestinian rights, the most > important thing happening in America right now is the Showdown between > Jewish Insurgency and Jewish Establishment in Massachusetts One. > > > https://jewishinsider.com/2020/08/can-rep-richard-neal-fend-off-a-challenge-from-alex-morse/ > > Can Rep. Richard Neal fend off a challenge from Alex Morse? > The longtime Massachusetts congressman is facing a formidable Democratic > primary challenger > By Matthew Kassel > Jewish Insider > August 20, 2020 > > With less than two weeks remaining until Massachusetts?s primary election > on September 1, Democratic Majority for Israel is pouring more than > $100,000 into advertising against Holyoke Mayor Alex Morse, a young > progressive challenger running against longtime incumbent Rep. Richard Neal > (D-MA) in the state?s 1st congressional district. > > If that sounds familiar, it may be because DMFI, a pro-Israel group, > recently reared its head in another race, spending nearly $2 million on > attack ads targeting Jamaal Bowman, a former middle school principal who > defeated Rep. Eliot Engel (D-NY) in New York?s June 23 primary by 15 > percentage points. > > Mark Mellman, DMFI?s president and CEO, isn?t cowed by Engel?s loss, and > defended his organization?s effort to boost Neal in an email statement. > ?Chairman Neal has consistently supported a strong U.S.-Israel > relationship. Mayor Morse does not,? Mellman told Jewish Insider. According > to Mellman, Morse ? who supports conditioning aid to Israel ? ?fails to > meet the standard set by over 95% of House Democrats.? Mellman added that > Morse had ?enthusiastically accepted support from IfNotNow,? a group that > Mellman characterized as ?an organization that refuses to recognize > Israel?s right to exist, in any borders.? > > Mellman did not respond to a follow-up question asking how DMFI would > spend the money. > IfNotNow, for its part, did not hesitate to taunt DMFI?s failure in New > York. ?They spent $2 million trying to defeat Jamaal Bowman,? said Yonah > Lieberman, a co-founder of IfNotNow. ?This is another last-ditch effort > that will fail again.? > > Morse himself, who is Jewish, appeared unbothered by the ad spend at a > moment when pro-Israel donors are struggling to adapt to a new campaign > finance and advertising landscape. > > ?As a congressman, I will use my voice to amplify the grassroots activism > of Palestinians and Jewish Israelis to achieve a just future for both > peoples, as well as make sure that U.S. support for Israel is used to > address security concerns, not perpetuate human rights violations,? Morse > told JI through a spokesperson on Wednesday. > > The 31-year-old upstart congressional candidate, who has served as the > mayor of Holyoke since 2012, has reason to think that he can dethrone Neal, > the powerful chair of the House Ways and Means Committee. > > This cycle, a number of upstart challengers ? including Bowman in the > Bronx, Cori Bush in St. Louis and Marie Newman in the Chicago suburbs ? > have succeeded in toppling long-serving Democratic incumbents. Each > candidate was backed by Justice Democrats, the progressive political action > committee that previously described Israel as a ?human rights violator.? > > Morse, who was endorsed by Justice Democrats when he launched his campaign > last summer, is hoping he can join his compatriots in the House. > > ?I certainly admire the members of ?The Squad,?? Morse told JI in an early > August interview, referring to the quartet of left-leaning congresswomen > including Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), Ilhan Omar (D-MN), Rashida > Tlaib (D-MI) and Ayanna Pressley (D-MA). He added that he ?would be proud > to be among their progressive voices in Washington.? > > Though there is scant publicly available data on the race, an internal > poll from Morse?s campaign, released this week, put Morse just 5 points > behind his opponent, with 41% of the vote and 13% of voters still > undecided. ?We?re confident we have a pathway to victory,? Morse declared. > > Still, Morse?s campaign, which has pulled in approximately $841,000, was > nearly upended about two weeks ago, when the College Democrats of > Massachusetts alleged in a letter that Morse, who is gay, and worked as an > adjunct professor at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, had taken > advantage of ?his position of power for romantic or sexual gain.? > > Since then, reporting from The Intercept has challenged that narrative, > suggesting that the College Democrats were in cahoots with the state > Democratic Party to sabotage Morse?s campaign. Neal has denied that he knew > anything about such plans. > > Rather than tanking his prospects, the scandal only appears to have > increased Morse?s profile. > > ?It drew more attention to Morse, not just within the district but from > people outside,? said Robert Boatright, a professor in the department of > political science at Clark University in Worcester. ?Before the scandal, I > think he would have probably come up a little bit short,? Boatright told > JI. ?Now, it?s pretty hard to predict.? > > Morse, who supports Medicare for All and the Green New Deal, cites his > nearly decade-long tenure serving Holyoke as evidence that he is prepared > to represent the 1st district, a vast swath that includes western and > central Massachusetts. > > ?I would arrive with nine years of governing executive experience on so > many issues that people think are reserved for the federal government or > national issues,? he said, alluding, among other things, to his support for > recreational cannabis use as well as his efforts weaning Holyoke off of > fossil fuels. > > When it comes to foreign policy, Morse holds views that have become de > rigueur among members of his far-left cohort ? particularly as they relate > to Israel. He supports, for instance, conditioning aid to the Jewish state. > > ?As an American, I believe our foreign policy must be grounded in our > values, and U.S. support for Israel must be used to address security > concerns,? he said, adding, ?We should be very clear about not allowing our > tax dollars to be used to subsidize the expansion of settlements, the > destruction of Palestinian homes or the detention of Palestinian children.? > > Morse has visited Israel once, on a Birthright trip in 2008 during his > freshman year at Brown University. His brief visit to the Jewish state, he > said, was a meaningful one. > > ?The Holocaust museum, in particular, was a really powerful experience,? > he said of his visit to Yad Vashem. ?It made me feel more connected to > fellow Jews in a way that I hadn?t been connected before, just given our > people?s common struggle for freedom and humanity and what happened in > history and just knowing and realizing the evil that humans can perpetuate > against others. I think that?s a lesson that we have to live with every > day.? > > While he doesn?t back the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) > movement, Morse told JI that he would not take action, if he is elected to > Congress, to legislate against the views of those who do. ?Despite my > personal position,? he said, ?I would continue to oppose legislation that > would criminalize or prevent other folks from exercising their free speech > and First Amendment rights in regards to BDS.? > > Neal positions himself as a firm supporter of the Jewish state. ?Israel is > a representative democracy,? he told JI in a recent interview. ?They > embrace the tenets of a constitutional democracy, free speech, freedom of > the press and the right to assemble. And I?ve seen the debate in the > Knesset. It?s pretty stormy.? > > Candy Glazer, a longtime Democratic activist in Massachusetts and an AIPAC > national council member, said Neal has been a reliable ally of the Jewish > community in western Massachusetts. > > ?We can always depend on Richie Neal,? she told JI, noting that the > congressman has been a strong advocate against the BDS movement. ?He has > just been a very loyal supporter on almost every issue.? > > [...] > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 17:04:22 2020 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 12:04:22 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] I'm very disappointed in the BernieBros In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't know if it will be a "game-changer", but I will watch with interest. The political status of Jews (which I prefer to Jewish persons, or persons of Jewish background, but that's just me) is in flux--I can't imagine that younger, more Woke Jews will be able to successfully foreground the Palestinian issue in this political context. But again, I wish them luck, and will follow with interest, especially in relation to Bowman and Morse. DG On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 8:27 AM Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > I?m very disappointed in those few BernieBros who are still fixating right > now on the Biden/Harris shiny object. The most important discipline of the > BernieBro is to try to turn their attention to what?s most important at > that particular moment, rather than follow the multitude to gaze at the > shiny object. The Biden/Harris train has left the station. There?s nothing > we can do about that now. WHEREAS, we could STILL defeat PelosiBro Richard > Neal in Massachusetts One. Election Day is September 1. Voting by mail is > already underway. Defeating PelosiBro Richard Neal, Pelosi?s chair of the > tax code-writing Ways & Means Committee, is the most important thing > BernieBros can do right now to change the terrain in favor of BernieBros > and against Dem Establishment after the November election. Don?t like Nancy > Pelosi? Help us defeat one of her most important lieutenants. Richard Neal > is Pelosi?s bagman for collecting corporate cash from the fossil fuel > moneyed interests. Want to end subsidies in the tax code for fossil fuel > production? Help us set up a fight for the chair of the tax code-writing > House Ways & Means Committee, like the defeat of Eliot Engel by Jamaal > Bowman set up a fight for the chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. > And if you care about climate change AND you care about Palestinian rights, > then it?s a TWOFER. Because the challenger Alex Morse is a Jew who is an > unapologetic defender of Palestinian rights. If you care about Palestinian > rights, that?s a Gamechanger, because whether we like it or not, in > Washington debates about Palestinian rights, Jews have more voice. > > Rep. Richard Neal Rakes In Fossil Fuel Money Ahead Of Primary With Green > New Dealer > The Massachusetts congressman is a top recipient of corporate donations, > including from the company behind a disastrous 2018 gas explosion. > > https://www.huffpost.com/entry/richard-neal-fossil-fuels_n_5f3c1c79c5b683523602f109 > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 17:07:10 2020 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:07:10 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Jewish Insider: AIPAC pouring 100K into attack ads against young Jew Alex Morse In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alex Morse doesn't "support BDS." He supports "leveraging U.S. aid to Israel to support Palestinian rights." I think the most important thing here is that AIPAC is coming after him, like they came after Bernie, like they came after Jamaal Bowman, like they came after Cori Bush. It's a proxy war between AIPAC and If Not Now. The important question now is which one will prevail. On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 12:59 PM David Green wrote: > It's good that Alex Morse supports Palestine, whatever that might mean in > practical terms, both in terms of his own goals and that of the legislature > at large. > > It's also good that Morse withstood a slanderous attack by the Woke: Here > is an entertaining and informative podcast on the subject of the political > effects of me-too-ism, which provides more support for the idea that > feminist and gay have seen their day, while black and trans are at the head > of the Woke Pack. > > https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5maXJlc2lkZS5mbS9iYXJwb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw/episode/ODFhNmQ0OWEtYjkxYi00Yjg4LWJlY2QtYmNhZWE0ZDA1NDU5?hl=en&ved=2ahUKEwijn6v3nqrrAhU5AZ0JHaM2CkYQieUEegQICxAE&ep=6 > > > Regarding Israel, it's good that Israel is seen with a more open mind; > this has been at least a 20-year process in the current iteration, dating > back to the 2nd intifada in the Fall of 2000. > > Nevertheless, Wokeness has folded the Palestinian rights movement and > strategy into another check on the Wokelist, related of course to virtue > signalling support for BDS. In other words, there's not much to be excited > about here in realistic terms, in relation to the Squad, Democratic Party > politics, or foreign policy. > > When Palestine was added to the Woke checklist, any real, sustained > interest subsided into the background. Locally, that would coincide with > the rise and fall of Steven Salaita. > > I do, however, wish Alex Morse well; hopefully he is more intelligent and > savvy than AOC, however low a bar she has set for him. > > DG > > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:22 AM Robert Naiman via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> >> If you're an American who cares about Palestinian rights, the most >> important thing happening in America right now is the Showdown between >> Jewish Insurgency and Jewish Establishment in Massachusetts One. >> >> >> https://jewishinsider.com/2020/08/can-rep-richard-neal-fend-off-a-challenge-from-alex-morse/ >> >> Can Rep. Richard Neal fend off a challenge from Alex Morse? >> The longtime Massachusetts congressman is facing a formidable Democratic >> primary challenger >> By Matthew Kassel >> Jewish Insider >> August 20, 2020 >> >> With less than two weeks remaining until Massachusetts?s primary election >> on September 1, Democratic Majority for Israel is pouring more than >> $100,000 into advertising against Holyoke Mayor Alex Morse, a young >> progressive challenger running against longtime incumbent Rep. Richard Neal >> (D-MA) in the state?s 1st congressional district. >> >> If that sounds familiar, it may be because DMFI, a pro-Israel group, >> recently reared its head in another race, spending nearly $2 million on >> attack ads targeting Jamaal Bowman, a former middle school principal who >> defeated Rep. Eliot Engel (D-NY) in New York?s June 23 primary by 15 >> percentage points. >> >> Mark Mellman, DMFI?s president and CEO, isn?t cowed by Engel?s loss, and >> defended his organization?s effort to boost Neal in an email statement. >> ?Chairman Neal has consistently supported a strong U.S.-Israel >> relationship. Mayor Morse does not,? Mellman told Jewish Insider. According >> to Mellman, Morse ? who supports conditioning aid to Israel ? ?fails to >> meet the standard set by over 95% of House Democrats.? Mellman added that >> Morse had ?enthusiastically accepted support from IfNotNow,? a group that >> Mellman characterized as ?an organization that refuses to recognize >> Israel?s right to exist, in any borders.? >> >> Mellman did not respond to a follow-up question asking how DMFI would >> spend the money. >> IfNotNow, for its part, did not hesitate to taunt DMFI?s failure in New >> York. ?They spent $2 million trying to defeat Jamaal Bowman,? said Yonah >> Lieberman, a co-founder of IfNotNow. ?This is another last-ditch effort >> that will fail again.? >> >> Morse himself, who is Jewish, appeared unbothered by the ad spend at a >> moment when pro-Israel donors are struggling to adapt to a new campaign >> finance and advertising landscape. >> >> ?As a congressman, I will use my voice to amplify the grassroots activism >> of Palestinians and Jewish Israelis to achieve a just future for both >> peoples, as well as make sure that U.S. support for Israel is used to >> address security concerns, not perpetuate human rights violations,? Morse >> told JI through a spokesperson on Wednesday. >> >> The 31-year-old upstart congressional candidate, who has served as the >> mayor of Holyoke since 2012, has reason to think that he can dethrone Neal, >> the powerful chair of the House Ways and Means Committee. >> >> This cycle, a number of upstart challengers ? including Bowman in the >> Bronx, Cori Bush in St. Louis and Marie Newman in the Chicago suburbs ? >> have succeeded in toppling long-serving Democratic incumbents. Each >> candidate was backed by Justice Democrats, the progressive political action >> committee that previously described Israel as a ?human rights violator.? >> >> Morse, who was endorsed by Justice Democrats when he launched his >> campaign last summer, is hoping he can join his compatriots in the House. >> >> ?I certainly admire the members of ?The Squad,?? Morse told JI in an >> early August interview, referring to the quartet of left-leaning >> congresswomen including Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), Ilhan Omar >> (D-MN), Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) and Ayanna Pressley (D-MA). He added that he >> ?would be proud to be among their progressive voices in Washington.? >> >> Though there is scant publicly available data on the race, an internal >> poll from Morse?s campaign, released this week, put Morse just 5 points >> behind his opponent, with 41% of the vote and 13% of voters still >> undecided. ?We?re confident we have a pathway to victory,? Morse declared. >> >> Still, Morse?s campaign, which has pulled in approximately $841,000, was >> nearly upended about two weeks ago, when the College Democrats of >> Massachusetts alleged in a letter that Morse, who is gay, and worked as an >> adjunct professor at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, had taken >> advantage of ?his position of power for romantic or sexual gain.? >> >> Since then, reporting from The Intercept has challenged that narrative, >> suggesting that the College Democrats were in cahoots with the state >> Democratic Party to sabotage Morse?s campaign. Neal has denied that he knew >> anything about such plans. >> >> Rather than tanking his prospects, the scandal only appears to have >> increased Morse?s profile. >> >> ?It drew more attention to Morse, not just within the district but from >> people outside,? said Robert Boatright, a professor in the department of >> political science at Clark University in Worcester. ?Before the scandal, I >> think he would have probably come up a little bit short,? Boatright told >> JI. ?Now, it?s pretty hard to predict.? >> >> Morse, who supports Medicare for All and the Green New Deal, cites his >> nearly decade-long tenure serving Holyoke as evidence that he is prepared >> to represent the 1st district, a vast swath that includes western and >> central Massachusetts. >> >> ?I would arrive with nine years of governing executive experience on so >> many issues that people think are reserved for the federal government or >> national issues,? he said, alluding, among other things, to his support for >> recreational cannabis use as well as his efforts weaning Holyoke off of >> fossil fuels. >> >> When it comes to foreign policy, Morse holds views that have become de >> rigueur among members of his far-left cohort ? particularly as they relate >> to Israel. He supports, for instance, conditioning aid to the Jewish state. >> >> ?As an American, I believe our foreign policy must be grounded in our >> values, and U.S. support for Israel must be used to address security >> concerns,? he said, adding, ?We should be very clear about not allowing our >> tax dollars to be used to subsidize the expansion of settlements, the >> destruction of Palestinian homes or the detention of Palestinian children.? >> >> Morse has visited Israel once, on a Birthright trip in 2008 during his >> freshman year at Brown University. His brief visit to the Jewish state, he >> said, was a meaningful one. >> >> ?The Holocaust museum, in particular, was a really powerful experience,? >> he said of his visit to Yad Vashem. ?It made me feel more connected to >> fellow Jews in a way that I hadn?t been connected before, just given our >> people?s common struggle for freedom and humanity and what happened in >> history and just knowing and realizing the evil that humans can perpetuate >> against others. I think that?s a lesson that we have to live with every >> day.? >> >> While he doesn?t back the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) >> movement, Morse told JI that he would not take action, if he is elected to >> Congress, to legislate against the views of those who do. ?Despite my >> personal position,? he said, ?I would continue to oppose legislation that >> would criminalize or prevent other folks from exercising their free speech >> and First Amendment rights in regards to BDS.? >> >> Neal positions himself as a firm supporter of the Jewish state. ?Israel >> is a representative democracy,? he told JI in a recent interview. ?They >> embrace the tenets of a constitutional democracy, free speech, freedom of >> the press and the right to assemble. And I?ve seen the debate in the >> Knesset. It?s pretty stormy.? >> >> Candy Glazer, a longtime Democratic activist in Massachusetts and an >> AIPAC national council member, said Neal has been a reliable ally of the >> Jewish community in western Massachusetts. >> >> ?We can always depend on Richie Neal,? she told JI, noting that the >> congressman has been a strong advocate against the BDS movement. ?He has >> just been a very loyal supporter on almost every issue.? >> >> [...] >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 17:10:29 2020 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:10:29 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] I'm very disappointed in the BernieBros In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, they survived this test so far. We skipped one If Not Now/End the Occupation PAC calling party in the days after the scandal of the Daily Collegian/U Mass College Dems allegations broke. Last Monday we resumed. My understanding is that there will be a make-up calling party for the one we missed. :) On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:04 PM David Green wrote: > I don't know if it will be a "game-changer", but I will watch with > interest. The political status of Jews (which I prefer to Jewish persons, > or persons of Jewish background, but that's just me) is in flux--I can't > imagine that younger, more Woke Jews will be able to successfully > foreground the Palestinian issue in this political context. But again, I > wish them luck, and will follow with interest, especially in relation to > Bowman and Morse. > > DG > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 8:27 AM Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> >> I?m very disappointed in those few BernieBros who are still fixating >> right now on the Biden/Harris shiny object. The most important discipline >> of the BernieBro is to try to turn their attention to what?s most important >> at that particular moment, rather than follow the multitude to gaze at the >> shiny object. The Biden/Harris train has left the station. There?s nothing >> we can do about that now. WHEREAS, we could STILL defeat PelosiBro Richard >> Neal in Massachusetts One. Election Day is September 1. Voting by mail is >> already underway. Defeating PelosiBro Richard Neal, Pelosi?s chair of the >> tax code-writing Ways & Means Committee, is the most important thing >> BernieBros can do right now to change the terrain in favor of BernieBros >> and against Dem Establishment after the November election. Don?t like Nancy >> Pelosi? Help us defeat one of her most important lieutenants. Richard Neal >> is Pelosi?s bagman for collecting corporate cash from the fossil fuel >> moneyed interests. Want to end subsidies in the tax code for fossil fuel >> production? Help us set up a fight for the chair of the tax code-writing >> House Ways & Means Committee, like the defeat of Eliot Engel by Jamaal >> Bowman set up a fight for the chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. >> And if you care about climate change AND you care about Palestinian rights, >> then it?s a TWOFER. Because the challenger Alex Morse is a Jew who is an >> unapologetic defender of Palestinian rights. If you care about Palestinian >> rights, that?s a Gamechanger, because whether we like it or not, in >> Washington debates about Palestinian rights, Jews have more voice. >> >> Rep. Richard Neal Rakes In Fossil Fuel Money Ahead Of Primary With Green >> New Dealer >> The Massachusetts congressman is a top recipient of corporate donations, >> including from the company behind a disastrous 2018 gas explosion. >> >> https://www.huffpost.com/entry/richard-neal-fossil-fuels_n_5f3c1c79c5b683523602f109 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 17:19:17 2020 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 12:19:17 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Jewish Insider: AIPAC pouring 100K into attack ads against young Jew Alex Morse In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I will definitely follow If Not Now and see what they're up to. I wish them luck in pursuing such an agenda in relation to more Woke issues that are at the forefront of the current agenda, not to mention basic survival issues in the Covid economy. DG On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 12:07 PM Robert Naiman wrote: > Alex Morse doesn't "support BDS." He supports "leveraging U.S. aid to > Israel to support Palestinian rights." > > I think the most important thing here is that AIPAC is coming after him, > like they came after Bernie, like they came after Jamaal Bowman, like they > came after Cori Bush. > > It's a proxy war between AIPAC and If Not Now. The important question now > is which one will prevail. > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 12:59 PM David Green > wrote: > >> It's good that Alex Morse supports Palestine, whatever that might mean in >> practical terms, both in terms of his own goals and that of the legislature >> at large. >> >> It's also good that Morse withstood a slanderous attack by the Woke: Here >> is an entertaining and informative podcast on the subject of the political >> effects of me-too-ism, which provides more support for the idea that >> feminist and gay have seen their day, while black and trans are at the head >> of the Woke Pack. >> >> https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5maXJlc2lkZS5mbS9iYXJwb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw/episode/ODFhNmQ0OWEtYjkxYi00Yjg4LWJlY2QtYmNhZWE0ZDA1NDU5?hl=en&ved=2ahUKEwijn6v3nqrrAhU5AZ0JHaM2CkYQieUEegQICxAE&ep=6 >> >> >> Regarding Israel, it's good that Israel is seen with a more open mind; >> this has been at least a 20-year process in the current iteration, dating >> back to the 2nd intifada in the Fall of 2000. >> >> Nevertheless, Wokeness has folded the Palestinian rights movement and >> strategy into another check on the Wokelist, related of course to virtue >> signalling support for BDS. In other words, there's not much to be excited >> about here in realistic terms, in relation to the Squad, Democratic Party >> politics, or foreign policy. >> >> When Palestine was added to the Woke checklist, any real, sustained >> interest subsided into the background. Locally, that would coincide with >> the rise and fall of Steven Salaita. >> >> I do, however, wish Alex Morse well; hopefully he is more intelligent and >> savvy than AOC, however low a bar she has set for him. >> >> DG >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:22 AM Robert Naiman via Peace < >> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> If you're an American who cares about Palestinian rights, the most >>> important thing happening in America right now is the Showdown between >>> Jewish Insurgency and Jewish Establishment in Massachusetts One. >>> >>> >>> https://jewishinsider.com/2020/08/can-rep-richard-neal-fend-off-a-challenge-from-alex-morse/ >>> >>> Can Rep. Richard Neal fend off a challenge from Alex Morse? >>> The longtime Massachusetts congressman is facing a formidable Democratic >>> primary challenger >>> By Matthew Kassel >>> Jewish Insider >>> August 20, 2020 >>> >>> With less than two weeks remaining until Massachusetts?s primary >>> election on September 1, Democratic Majority for Israel is pouring more >>> than $100,000 into advertising against Holyoke Mayor Alex Morse, a young >>> progressive challenger running against longtime incumbent Rep. Richard Neal >>> (D-MA) in the state?s 1st congressional district. >>> >>> If that sounds familiar, it may be because DMFI, a pro-Israel group, >>> recently reared its head in another race, spending nearly $2 million on >>> attack ads targeting Jamaal Bowman, a former middle school principal who >>> defeated Rep. Eliot Engel (D-NY) in New York?s June 23 primary by 15 >>> percentage points. >>> >>> Mark Mellman, DMFI?s president and CEO, isn?t cowed by Engel?s loss, and >>> defended his organization?s effort to boost Neal in an email statement. >>> ?Chairman Neal has consistently supported a strong U.S.-Israel >>> relationship. Mayor Morse does not,? Mellman told Jewish Insider. According >>> to Mellman, Morse ? who supports conditioning aid to Israel ? ?fails to >>> meet the standard set by over 95% of House Democrats.? Mellman added that >>> Morse had ?enthusiastically accepted support from IfNotNow,? a group that >>> Mellman characterized as ?an organization that refuses to recognize >>> Israel?s right to exist, in any borders.? >>> >>> Mellman did not respond to a follow-up question asking how DMFI would >>> spend the money. >>> IfNotNow, for its part, did not hesitate to taunt DMFI?s failure in New >>> York. ?They spent $2 million trying to defeat Jamaal Bowman,? said Yonah >>> Lieberman, a co-founder of IfNotNow. ?This is another last-ditch effort >>> that will fail again.? >>> >>> Morse himself, who is Jewish, appeared unbothered by the ad spend at a >>> moment when pro-Israel donors are struggling to adapt to a new campaign >>> finance and advertising landscape. >>> >>> ?As a congressman, I will use my voice to amplify the grassroots >>> activism of Palestinians and Jewish Israelis to achieve a just future for >>> both peoples, as well as make sure that U.S. support for Israel is used to >>> address security concerns, not perpetuate human rights violations,? Morse >>> told JI through a spokesperson on Wednesday. >>> >>> The 31-year-old upstart congressional candidate, who has served as the >>> mayor of Holyoke since 2012, has reason to think that he can dethrone Neal, >>> the powerful chair of the House Ways and Means Committee. >>> >>> This cycle, a number of upstart challengers ? including Bowman in the >>> Bronx, Cori Bush in St. Louis and Marie Newman in the Chicago suburbs ? >>> have succeeded in toppling long-serving Democratic incumbents. Each >>> candidate was backed by Justice Democrats, the progressive political action >>> committee that previously described Israel as a ?human rights violator.? >>> >>> Morse, who was endorsed by Justice Democrats when he launched his >>> campaign last summer, is hoping he can join his compatriots in the House. >>> >>> ?I certainly admire the members of ?The Squad,?? Morse told JI in an >>> early August interview, referring to the quartet of left-leaning >>> congresswomen including Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), Ilhan Omar >>> (D-MN), Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) and Ayanna Pressley (D-MA). He added that he >>> ?would be proud to be among their progressive voices in Washington.? >>> >>> Though there is scant publicly available data on the race, an internal >>> poll from Morse?s campaign, released this week, put Morse just 5 points >>> behind his opponent, with 41% of the vote and 13% of voters still >>> undecided. ?We?re confident we have a pathway to victory,? Morse declared. >>> >>> Still, Morse?s campaign, which has pulled in approximately $841,000, was >>> nearly upended about two weeks ago, when the College Democrats of >>> Massachusetts alleged in a letter that Morse, who is gay, and worked as an >>> adjunct professor at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, had taken >>> advantage of ?his position of power for romantic or sexual gain.? >>> >>> Since then, reporting from The Intercept has challenged that narrative, >>> suggesting that the College Democrats were in cahoots with the state >>> Democratic Party to sabotage Morse?s campaign. Neal has denied that he knew >>> anything about such plans. >>> >>> Rather than tanking his prospects, the scandal only appears to have >>> increased Morse?s profile. >>> >>> ?It drew more attention to Morse, not just within the district but from >>> people outside,? said Robert Boatright, a professor in the department of >>> political science at Clark University in Worcester. ?Before the scandal, I >>> think he would have probably come up a little bit short,? Boatright told >>> JI. ?Now, it?s pretty hard to predict.? >>> >>> Morse, who supports Medicare for All and the Green New Deal, cites his >>> nearly decade-long tenure serving Holyoke as evidence that he is prepared >>> to represent the 1st district, a vast swath that includes western and >>> central Massachusetts. >>> >>> ?I would arrive with nine years of governing executive experience on so >>> many issues that people think are reserved for the federal government or >>> national issues,? he said, alluding, among other things, to his support for >>> recreational cannabis use as well as his efforts weaning Holyoke off of >>> fossil fuels. >>> >>> When it comes to foreign policy, Morse holds views that have become de >>> rigueur among members of his far-left cohort ? particularly as they relate >>> to Israel. He supports, for instance, conditioning aid to the Jewish state. >>> >>> ?As an American, I believe our foreign policy must be grounded in our >>> values, and U.S. support for Israel must be used to address security >>> concerns,? he said, adding, ?We should be very clear about not allowing our >>> tax dollars to be used to subsidize the expansion of settlements, the >>> destruction of Palestinian homes or the detention of Palestinian children.? >>> >>> Morse has visited Israel once, on a Birthright trip in 2008 during his >>> freshman year at Brown University. His brief visit to the Jewish state, he >>> said, was a meaningful one. >>> >>> ?The Holocaust museum, in particular, was a really powerful experience,? >>> he said of his visit to Yad Vashem. ?It made me feel more connected to >>> fellow Jews in a way that I hadn?t been connected before, just given our >>> people?s common struggle for freedom and humanity and what happened in >>> history and just knowing and realizing the evil that humans can perpetuate >>> against others. I think that?s a lesson that we have to live with every >>> day.? >>> >>> While he doesn?t back the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) >>> movement, Morse told JI that he would not take action, if he is elected to >>> Congress, to legislate against the views of those who do. ?Despite my >>> personal position,? he said, ?I would continue to oppose legislation that >>> would criminalize or prevent other folks from exercising their free speech >>> and First Amendment rights in regards to BDS.? >>> >>> Neal positions himself as a firm supporter of the Jewish state. ?Israel >>> is a representative democracy,? he told JI in a recent interview. ?They >>> embrace the tenets of a constitutional democracy, free speech, freedom of >>> the press and the right to assemble. And I?ve seen the debate in the >>> Knesset. It?s pretty stormy.? >>> >>> Candy Glazer, a longtime Democratic activist in Massachusetts and an >>> AIPAC national council member, said Neal has been a reliable ally of the >>> Jewish community in western Massachusetts. >>> >>> ?We can always depend on Richie Neal,? she told JI, noting that the >>> congressman has been a strong advocate against the BDS movement. ?He has >>> just been a very loyal supporter on almost every issue.? >>> >>> [...] >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 17:29:16 2020 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:29:16 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Jewish Insider: AIPAC pouring 100K into attack ads against young Jew Alex Morse In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Btw, If Not Now doesn't "support BDS" either. They're officially agnostic on it, which I think is smart. They don't have a position on BDS, they don't have a position on ZIonism, they don't have a position on a two-state solution or a one-state solution. They are "young Jews against the occupation." They work with everybody, they work with J Street, they work with Jewish Voice for Peace. They don't take a position on the ideological divides, so they can work with all Jews who are against the occupation, like type O blood. :) On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:19 PM David Green wrote: > I will definitely follow If Not Now and see what they're up to. I wish > them luck in pursuing such an agenda in relation to more Woke issues that > are at the forefront of the current agenda, not to mention basic survival > issues in the Covid economy. > > DG > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 12:07 PM Robert Naiman > wrote: > >> Alex Morse doesn't "support BDS." He supports "leveraging U.S. aid to >> Israel to support Palestinian rights." >> >> I think the most important thing here is that AIPAC is coming after him, >> like they came after Bernie, like they came after Jamaal Bowman, like they >> came after Cori Bush. >> >> It's a proxy war between AIPAC and If Not Now. The important question now >> is which one will prevail. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 12:59 PM David Green >> wrote: >> >>> It's good that Alex Morse supports Palestine, whatever that might mean >>> in practical terms, both in terms of his own goals and that of the >>> legislature at large. >>> >>> It's also good that Morse withstood a slanderous attack by the Woke: >>> Here is an entertaining and informative podcast on the subject of the >>> political effects of me-too-ism, which provides more support for the idea >>> that feminist and gay have seen their day, while black and trans are at the >>> head of the Woke Pack. >>> >>> https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5maXJlc2lkZS5mbS9iYXJwb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw/episode/ODFhNmQ0OWEtYjkxYi00Yjg4LWJlY2QtYmNhZWE0ZDA1NDU5?hl=en&ved=2ahUKEwijn6v3nqrrAhU5AZ0JHaM2CkYQieUEegQICxAE&ep=6 >>> >>> >>> Regarding Israel, it's good that Israel is seen with a more open mind; >>> this has been at least a 20-year process in the current iteration, dating >>> back to the 2nd intifada in the Fall of 2000. >>> >>> Nevertheless, Wokeness has folded the Palestinian rights movement and >>> strategy into another check on the Wokelist, related of course to virtue >>> signalling support for BDS. In other words, there's not much to be excited >>> about here in realistic terms, in relation to the Squad, Democratic Party >>> politics, or foreign policy. >>> >>> When Palestine was added to the Woke checklist, any real, sustained >>> interest subsided into the background. Locally, that would coincide with >>> the rise and fall of Steven Salaita. >>> >>> I do, however, wish Alex Morse well; hopefully he is more intelligent >>> and savvy than AOC, however low a bar she has set for him. >>> >>> DG >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:22 AM Robert Naiman via Peace < >>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> If you're an American who cares about Palestinian rights, the most >>>> important thing happening in America right now is the Showdown between >>>> Jewish Insurgency and Jewish Establishment in Massachusetts One. >>>> >>>> >>>> https://jewishinsider.com/2020/08/can-rep-richard-neal-fend-off-a-challenge-from-alex-morse/ >>>> >>>> Can Rep. Richard Neal fend off a challenge from Alex Morse? >>>> The longtime Massachusetts congressman is facing a formidable >>>> Democratic primary challenger >>>> By Matthew Kassel >>>> Jewish Insider >>>> August 20, 2020 >>>> >>>> With less than two weeks remaining until Massachusetts?s primary >>>> election on September 1, Democratic Majority for Israel is pouring more >>>> than $100,000 into advertising against Holyoke Mayor Alex Morse, a young >>>> progressive challenger running against longtime incumbent Rep. Richard Neal >>>> (D-MA) in the state?s 1st congressional district. >>>> >>>> If that sounds familiar, it may be because DMFI, a pro-Israel group, >>>> recently reared its head in another race, spending nearly $2 million on >>>> attack ads targeting Jamaal Bowman, a former middle school principal who >>>> defeated Rep. Eliot Engel (D-NY) in New York?s June 23 primary by 15 >>>> percentage points. >>>> >>>> Mark Mellman, DMFI?s president and CEO, isn?t cowed by Engel?s loss, >>>> and defended his organization?s effort to boost Neal in an email statement. >>>> ?Chairman Neal has consistently supported a strong U.S.-Israel >>>> relationship. Mayor Morse does not,? Mellman told Jewish Insider. According >>>> to Mellman, Morse ? who supports conditioning aid to Israel ? ?fails to >>>> meet the standard set by over 95% of House Democrats.? Mellman added that >>>> Morse had ?enthusiastically accepted support from IfNotNow,? a group that >>>> Mellman characterized as ?an organization that refuses to recognize >>>> Israel?s right to exist, in any borders.? >>>> >>>> Mellman did not respond to a follow-up question asking how DMFI would >>>> spend the money. >>>> IfNotNow, for its part, did not hesitate to taunt DMFI?s failure in New >>>> York. ?They spent $2 million trying to defeat Jamaal Bowman,? said Yonah >>>> Lieberman, a co-founder of IfNotNow. ?This is another last-ditch effort >>>> that will fail again.? >>>> >>>> Morse himself, who is Jewish, appeared unbothered by the ad spend at a >>>> moment when pro-Israel donors are struggling to adapt to a new campaign >>>> finance and advertising landscape. >>>> >>>> ?As a congressman, I will use my voice to amplify the grassroots >>>> activism of Palestinians and Jewish Israelis to achieve a just future for >>>> both peoples, as well as make sure that U.S. support for Israel is used to >>>> address security concerns, not perpetuate human rights violations,? Morse >>>> told JI through a spokesperson on Wednesday. >>>> >>>> The 31-year-old upstart congressional candidate, who has served as the >>>> mayor of Holyoke since 2012, has reason to think that he can dethrone Neal, >>>> the powerful chair of the House Ways and Means Committee. >>>> >>>> This cycle, a number of upstart challengers ? including Bowman in the >>>> Bronx, Cori Bush in St. Louis and Marie Newman in the Chicago suburbs ? >>>> have succeeded in toppling long-serving Democratic incumbents. Each >>>> candidate was backed by Justice Democrats, the progressive political action >>>> committee that previously described Israel as a ?human rights violator.? >>>> >>>> Morse, who was endorsed by Justice Democrats when he launched his >>>> campaign last summer, is hoping he can join his compatriots in the House. >>>> >>>> ?I certainly admire the members of ?The Squad,?? Morse told JI in an >>>> early August interview, referring to the quartet of left-leaning >>>> congresswomen including Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), Ilhan Omar >>>> (D-MN), Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) and Ayanna Pressley (D-MA). He added that he >>>> ?would be proud to be among their progressive voices in Washington.? >>>> >>>> Though there is scant publicly available data on the race, an internal >>>> poll from Morse?s campaign, released this week, put Morse just 5 points >>>> behind his opponent, with 41% of the vote and 13% of voters still >>>> undecided. ?We?re confident we have a pathway to victory,? Morse declared. >>>> >>>> Still, Morse?s campaign, which has pulled in approximately $841,000, >>>> was nearly upended about two weeks ago, when the College Democrats of >>>> Massachusetts alleged in a letter that Morse, who is gay, and worked as an >>>> adjunct professor at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, had taken >>>> advantage of ?his position of power for romantic or sexual gain.? >>>> >>>> Since then, reporting from The Intercept has challenged that narrative, >>>> suggesting that the College Democrats were in cahoots with the state >>>> Democratic Party to sabotage Morse?s campaign. Neal has denied that he knew >>>> anything about such plans. >>>> >>>> Rather than tanking his prospects, the scandal only appears to have >>>> increased Morse?s profile. >>>> >>>> ?It drew more attention to Morse, not just within the district but from >>>> people outside,? said Robert Boatright, a professor in the department of >>>> political science at Clark University in Worcester. ?Before the scandal, I >>>> think he would have probably come up a little bit short,? Boatright told >>>> JI. ?Now, it?s pretty hard to predict.? >>>> >>>> Morse, who supports Medicare for All and the Green New Deal, cites his >>>> nearly decade-long tenure serving Holyoke as evidence that he is prepared >>>> to represent the 1st district, a vast swath that includes western and >>>> central Massachusetts. >>>> >>>> ?I would arrive with nine years of governing executive experience on so >>>> many issues that people think are reserved for the federal government or >>>> national issues,? he said, alluding, among other things, to his support for >>>> recreational cannabis use as well as his efforts weaning Holyoke off of >>>> fossil fuels. >>>> >>>> When it comes to foreign policy, Morse holds views that have become de >>>> rigueur among members of his far-left cohort ? particularly as they relate >>>> to Israel. He supports, for instance, conditioning aid to the Jewish state. >>>> >>>> ?As an American, I believe our foreign policy must be grounded in our >>>> values, and U.S. support for Israel must be used to address security >>>> concerns,? he said, adding, ?We should be very clear about not allowing our >>>> tax dollars to be used to subsidize the expansion of settlements, the >>>> destruction of Palestinian homes or the detention of Palestinian children.? >>>> >>>> Morse has visited Israel once, on a Birthright trip in 2008 during his >>>> freshman year at Brown University. His brief visit to the Jewish state, he >>>> said, was a meaningful one. >>>> >>>> ?The Holocaust museum, in particular, was a really powerful >>>> experience,? he said of his visit to Yad Vashem. ?It made me feel more >>>> connected to fellow Jews in a way that I hadn?t been connected before, just >>>> given our people?s common struggle for freedom and humanity and what >>>> happened in history and just knowing and realizing the evil that humans can >>>> perpetuate against others. I think that?s a lesson that we have to live >>>> with every day.? >>>> >>>> While he doesn?t back the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) >>>> movement, Morse told JI that he would not take action, if he is elected to >>>> Congress, to legislate against the views of those who do. ?Despite my >>>> personal position,? he said, ?I would continue to oppose legislation that >>>> would criminalize or prevent other folks from exercising their free speech >>>> and First Amendment rights in regards to BDS.? >>>> >>>> Neal positions himself as a firm supporter of the Jewish state. ?Israel >>>> is a representative democracy,? he told JI in a recent interview. ?They >>>> embrace the tenets of a constitutional democracy, free speech, freedom of >>>> the press and the right to assemble. And I?ve seen the debate in the >>>> Knesset. It?s pretty stormy.? >>>> >>>> Candy Glazer, a longtime Democratic activist in Massachusetts and an >>>> AIPAC national council member, said Neal has been a reliable ally of the >>>> Jewish community in western Massachusetts. >>>> >>>> ?We can always depend on Richie Neal,? she told JI, noting that the >>>> congressman has been a strong advocate against the BDS movement. ?He has >>>> just been a very loyal supporter on almost every issue.? >>>> >>>> [...] >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace mailing list >>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 17:42:43 2020 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:42:43 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Keith_Ellison=E2=80=99s_fate_shows_why?= =?utf-8?q?_Rep=2E_Alex_Morse_would_be_a_Gamechanger_for_Palestinia?= =?utf-8?q?n_rights?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Keith Ellison?s fate shows why Rep. Alex Morse would be a Gamechanger for Palestinian rights It is a fact that all honest Americans who care about Palestinian rights must acknowledge that Jewish Americans have more voice in Washington right now on Palestinian rights than other Americans. We don?t have to agree on exactly why this is true in order to agree that it is true. We don?t have to agree that it is just in order to agree that it is true. We don?t have to agree that it must always be the case in order to agree that it is true right now. But something else important is true: regardless of what the ?true coefficients of the independent variables in the regression? of the causation story are, this is NOT ONLY a story of campaign cash. Campaign cash may be part of the story, but it is NOT the whole story. We have data on this from the last year that we didn?t have before. AIPAC tried to stop Bernie with campaign cash. They failed. Bernie was stopped. But not by AIPAC. AIPAC failed to stop Bernie in Iowa, they failed to stop Bernie in New Hampshire, they failed to stop Bernie in Nevada. After Nevada, they gave up. It was the rest of Dem Establishment who stopped Bernie in South Carolina. Not AIPAC. AIPAC tried to stop Jamaal Bowman with campaign cash. They failed. Even Jews in Riverdale voted for Jamaal. AIPAC tried to stop Cori Bush with campaign cash. They failed. She even ?supported BDS,? which is supposed to be radioactive for AIPAC. Didn?t matter. They failed. There is another important piece of the story, which has to do with Washington justification narratives for things that Washington people want to do for other reasons. To see this, try to put Israel/Palestine and AIPAC out of your mind for a moment and think about how some other things go. Suppose we?re trying to end a war that involves U.S. ground troops. Who?s the best ?validator? to try to get into the media? A U.S. veteran who served in that war who is against the war and wants it to end. Why is that? Because a key pillar of the Washington justification narrative for continuing a war that involves U.S. ground troops is always ?Support Our Troops!? How many times did we hear that before the Iraq War? ?Support Our Troops!? Remember the yellow ribbons? ?Oh, these are not pro-war yellow ribbons,? the people said. ?These yellow ribbons are only about Supporting Our Troops.? But when the war went south, the yellow ribbons came down. So apparently the yellow ribbons were in fact about supporting the war. They hid behind the troops to support the war. This is why veterans who speak out against the war are key. A U.S. veteran stands up and says, ?I served in this war, and this war is BS, and it?s time to bring our brothers and sisters home!? Boom! Pillar down. It?s not about Supporting The Troops. Whatever the supposed justifications for continuing the war are, it?s not about Supporting The Troops. And this is why American Jews have more voice on Palestinian rights in Washington than other Americans, over and above the effects of campaign cash. American Jews are being used as an excuse for policies that have other motivations, just like ?support our troops? is used as an excuse for policies that have other motivations. When an American Jew speaks up for Palestinian rights, it knocks down a pillar of the Washington justification narrative, just like when a veteran speaks up against a war. ?I?m an American Jew and I support Palestinian rights!? Boom! Pillar down. It?s not about supporting Jews. Whatever the supposed reasons for continuing the status quo of U.S. policy against Palestinian rights is, it?s not about supporting Jews. If you?ve never worked on these issues in Washington, it might be hard to wrap your mind around how extreme these dynamics are. So let me give you a sharp example from my direct personal experience. When Keith Ellison was in Congress, he tried to lead on reforming U.S. foreign policy, particularly in the Middle East and Latin America. This was a natural thing for him to try to do, because: 1. He cares personally about it 2. He was co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus 3. He represented a district in Minnesota where a lot of people care about reforming U.S. foreign policy, particularly in the Middle East and Latin America [that district is represented by Ilhan Omar now, and she just got re-elected by a yuuuge margin] 4. Keith Ellison is Muslim-American, and Muslim-Americans across the United States who wanted to do something about U.S. foreign policy saw him as their champion. One time there was a House Democratic Congressional letter about the humanitarian crisis in Gaza due to the Israeli-Egyptian blockade. It was a modest letter: there?s a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, let?s try to do something about it. There were three co-leads on the letter: Keith Ellison, Steve Cohen of Tennessee, and I don?t remember who the third person was, except that unlike Steve Cohen, they were not Jewish, which for the purposes of this story, is the only thing that matters, as you will see. I suggested to a colleague that we try to get Eleanor Holmes Norton of DC on the letter. She doesn?t have a vote on the floor, but she can sign letters. Her overall politics are very progressive. If you sit in her Capitol Hill office and look the pictures on the walls, you can see that she came up in the civil rights movement at a time when trying to do something about U.S. imperialism was a very normal thing for people in the civil rights movement to care about. The answer came back: Eleanor Holmes Norton won?t sign the letter. She says the letter is all messed up. She says that ALL the co-leads on the letter must be Jews, and that Steve Cohen doesn?t count. Why doesn?t Steve Cohen count, according to this view? Nobody disputes that Steve Cohen is Jewish. He doesn?t count according to this view because he has an African-American district. The only Jewish Democrats in Congress who count, according to this view, are Jews perceived to represent a lot of Jews, like Jerry Nadler in New York City or Jan Schakowsky in Evanston or DWS in South Florida. Of course, these are the Jews in the House who are going to be most cautious about speaking up for Palestinian rights, because they?re the ones who are going to get the most backlash from AIPAC. I?m not telling you this story to pick on Eleanor Holmes Norton. Clearly she was repeating something someone else had told her, presumably someone from House Democratic leadership, about who is allowed to have voice in Washington on Palestinian rights. You have to know it was Eleanor Holmes Norton who said this to understand how extreme the mentality was. The environment has improved substantially since then. But you have to understand where we were not so long ago to understand where we are now. After Keith Ellison was blocked by Democratic "anyone but Bernie" megadonor Haim Saban [?I?m a single issue person, and my single issue is Israel?] from becoming DNC Chair, he decided to leave Congress and run for Attorney General of Minnesota. I never talked to Keith Ellison after that, the last time I talked to him was outside a Bernie event in Waterloo, Iowa in 2016. But I?ve always suspected that one of his motivations for leaving Congress was that Dem Establishment shut him down on his efforts to lead on reforming U.S. foreign policy. He was between a rock and a hard place. He had constituents who expected him to lead. But Dem Establishment told him to sit down and shut up. If you know something of this context, then it?s a slam dunk that it would be a Gamechanger for Palestinian rights if we had Alex Morse in the House. Alex Morse is Jewish. And he?s an unapologetic defender of Palestinian rights. We have Jewish Democrats in the House who support Palestinian rights. But they?re cautious. They?re cowed by the relationship between AIPAC and the House Democratic leadership, Pelosi-Hoyer-Clyburn. If Palestinian rights defenders had Alex Morse in the House as a champion, it would be a Political Revolution. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 18:46:31 2020 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 14:46:31 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Justice Democrats attacks Nancy Pelosi for endorsing Kennedy over Markey In-Reply-To: <406a-3647-5f3ec19b@list.justicedemocrats.com> References: <406a-3647-5f3ec19b@list.justicedemocrats.com> Message-ID: Any day you get an email from Justice Democrats attacking Nancy Pelosi is a happy day. :) ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: JusticeDemocrats.com Date: Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:32 PM Subject: Nancy Pelosi?s hypocrisy To: Robert Naiman [image: Justice Democrats] Robert, this is outrageous: *Nancy Pelosi just endorsed Joe Kennedy* who is primarying Senator Ed Markey ? who co-wrote the Green New Deal with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. *This move reeks of hypocrisy:* the party is setting one standard for progressives and one entirely different standard for the establishment. *AOC just summed it up perfectly:* *Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez* [image: Verified] @AOC [image: @AOC] No one gets to complain about primary challenges again. ? So @dccc, when can we expect you to reverse your blacklist policy against primary orgs? Because between this & lack of care around @IlhanMN?s challenger, it seems like less a policy and more a cherry-picking activity. We?re investing in building the infrastructure for more progressive like AOC, Jamaal Bowman, and Cori Bush to the entrenched political establishment. Will you help us take on Nancy Pelosi and the DCCC?s blacklist policy by chipping in $27 right now? *Contribute $27 * Last year, as progressives launched campaigns to build on the momentum of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ayanna Pressley's victories against incumbents, Nancy Pelosi stood by the DCCC?s policy to blacklist any organization that worked on primary challenges against incumbent Democrats. Speaker Pelosi is using her power to undermine the next generation of Democratic voters and the progressive champions we choose to believe in. Do your part to help us transform the Democratic Party to actually represent the voters by electing more diverse, working-class candidates by chipping in $27 right now. *Contribute $27 * Thank you for helping us fight back, Justice Democrats Do not worry if you cannot afford to make a contribution ? we understand that this is a difficult time. If you?re struggling, you can find a food bank here. We appreciate everything you do to keep our movement strong. Please stay informed and follow the most up-to-date recommendations from the World Health Organization , the Centers for Disease Control , and your state public health department. *Donate * [image: Paid for by Justice Democrats] Not authorized by any candidate or candidate?s committee. JusticeDemocrats.com P.O. Box 910 Knoxville, TN 37901 Email us: us at justicedemocrats.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 19:27:14 2020 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 15:27:14 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Khanna, AOC blast Pelosi for endorsing Kennedy over Markey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The gloves are off! Maybe we'll have Free Speech in the Democratic Party on war and peace now. Hope springs eternal in the human breast. https://twitter.com/rokhanna/status/1296520774891835395 [image: image.png] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 271422 bytes Desc: not available URL: From carl at newsfromneptune.com Thu Aug 20 19:39:49 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 14:39:49 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Fwd=3A_=5BePalestine=5D_Mondoweiss=3A_?= =?utf-8?q?Trump_and_Netanyahu=E2=80=99s_celebration_of_failure_=28By_Sam_?= =?utf-8?q?Bahour=29?= References: Message-ID: <5C5955AE-6FBC-4FA8-BFB3-D73E84B8A40D@newsfromneptune.com> > Begin forwarded message: > > From: "Sam Bahour" (via epalestine Mailing List) > Subject: [ePalestine] Mondoweiss: Trump and Netanyahu?s celebration of failure (By Sam Bahour) > Date: August 20, 2020 at 2:30:56 PM CDT > To: "ePalestine.com" > Reply-To: sbahour at gmail.com > > Mondoweiss > > Trump and Netanyahu?s celebration of failure > > By Sam Bahour > > > > READ and COMMENT at: > > Mondoweiss: http://bit.ly/Trump-and-Netanyahus-celebration-of-failure > > or at > > Medium: here . > > _____________________________________ > > ePalestine.ps > > SUPPORT OUR WORK -- DONATE HERE: > https://www.paypal.me/sambahour > > Everything about this list: > http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/epalestine > > To subscribe, send mail to: > epalestine-subscribe at lists.riseup.net > > To unsubscribe, send mail to: > epalestine-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 50221849743_1ee64bf3e8_k-770x515.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 40099 bytes Desc: not available URL: From carl at newsfromneptune.com Thu Aug 20 19:42:09 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 14:42:09 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Duration of Isolation and Precautions for Adults with COVID-19 References: Message-ID: > Begin forwarded message: > > From: "Centers for Disease Control and Prevention" > Subject: Duration of Isolation and Precautions for Adults with COVID-19 > Date: August 17, 2020 at 2:48:52 PM CDT > To: > Reply-To: "Centers for Disease Control and Prevention" > > Received this email from a friend? Sign up now > > > August 17, 2020 > This message includes updates on the COVID-19 response from CDC. The COVID-19 Outbreak is a rapidly evolving situation and information will be updated as it becomes available. > > Duration of Isolation and Precautions for Adults with COVID-19 > At this time, we do not know if someone can be re-infected with COVID-19. Data to date show that a person who has had and recovered from COVID-19 may have low levels of virus in their body for up to 3 months after diagnosis. This means that if the person who has recovered from COVID-19 is retested within 3 months of initial infection, they may continue to have a positive test result, even though they are not spreading COVID-19. > Learn More > > Interim Guidance for Rapid Antigen Testing for SARS-CoV-2 > Note: Antigen tests can be used in a variety of testing strategies to respond to the COVID-19 pandemic. This interim guidance is intended for clinicians who order antigen tests, receive antigen test results, and/or perform point-of-care testing, as well as for laboratory professionals who perform antigen testing in a laboratory setting or at the point of care and report those results. > Access the Interim Guidance > > Coping with Stress > The COVID-19 pandemic may be stressful for people. Fear and anxiety about a new disease and what could happen can be overwhelming and cause strong emotions in adults and children. Public health actions, such as social distancing, can make people feel isolated and lonely and can increase stress and anxiety. However, these actions are necessary to reduce the spread of COVID-19. > Learn more about coping with stress > > Hand Hygiene > Hand hygiene is an important part of the U.S. response to the international emergence of COVID-19. Practicing hand hygiene, which includes the use of alcohol-based hand rub (ABHR) or handwashing, is a simple yet effective way to prevent the spread of pathogens and infections in healthcare settings. > Learn more about hand hygiene > > Guidance for General Laboratory Safety Practices during the COVID-19 Pandemic > This guidance is to address the general workflow safety concerns of laboratory personnel during the COVID-19 pandemic. All laboratories should perform site- and activity-specific risk assessments to determine the most appropriate safety measures to implement for particular circumstances. In addition, facilities should adhere to local policies and procedures as well as all applicable federal, state, and local regulations and public health guidelines. > Access the Guidance > Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) in the U.S. > As of August 17, 2020 > In the United States, there have been 5,382,125 confirmed cases of COVID-19 detected through U.S. public health surveillance systems in 50 states and the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Guam, the Northern Marianas Islands, and U.S. Virgin Islands. > CDC provides updated U.S. case information online daily. > > U.S. Cases > > Centers for Disease Control and Prevention > 1600 Clifton Rd Atlanta, GA 30329 1-800-CDC-INFO (800-232-4636) TTY: 888-232-6348 > Questions or Problems | Unsubscribe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 21:50:18 2020 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 17:50:18 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Did Meeks renege on leveraging U.S. aid against annexation of the West Bank? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Did Meeks renege? The groups should press Meeks to clarify. "How long will you waver between two opinions?" Compare: https://jewishinsider.com/2020/08/meeks-u-s-commitment-to-israel-aid-is-absolute-and-unequivocal/ Meeks: U.S. commitment to Israel aid is *?absolute and unequivocal?* Rep. Gregory Meeks, who is competing for the House Foreign Affairs Committee?s chairmanship, said on an AJC call that *he opposes conditioning aid to Israel* By Jacob Kornbluh August 20, 2020 *Rep. Gregory Meeks (D-NY) expressed his firm opposition on Thursday to conditioning U.S. assistance to Israel if Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu?s government unilaterally annexes portions of the West Bank.* ?We know the extreme importance in the region to make sure that Israel has the right to defend itself ? and the dollars that we give Israel to defend itself is *absolute and unequivocal*,? Meeks said in a Zoom call hosted by the American Jewish Committee. Meeks is competing with Reps. Brad Sherman (D-CA) and Joaqu?n Castro (D-TX) for the chairmanship of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, following the defeat of current chairman Rep. Eliot Engel (D-NY) in New York?s Democratic primary. Earlier this month, The Times of Israel reported that ? following a public lobbying effort from J Street and other groups ? *all three candidates expressed support for a measure that would prohibit Israel from using U.S. military assistance to unilaterally annex parts of the West Bank*. ?Of course there are disputes in regards to policy, in regards to some of the things that President [Donald] Trump has done, and some of the things and some of the issues that Prime Minister Netanyahu has done, and so we have the ability to talk about that,? Meeks stressed. ?But we understand that Israel has a right to defend itself, our strong ally ? in a bipartisan way. We stand strong in that regard.? [...] =============== https://www.timesofisrael.com/dems-seeking-house-foreign-affairs-job-would-restrict-israel-aid-over-annexation/ *Dems seeking House foreign affairs job would restrict Israel aid over annexation* *All 3 candidates running to chair powerful committee say American assistance shouldn?t go toward Israel annexing parts of West Bank, signaling growing Democratic support for idea* By ERIC CORTELLESSA 7 August 2020, 11:30 pm WASHINGTON ? *All three of the Democratic congressmen running to chair the powerful House Foreign Affairs Committee support either restricting or leveraging American aid to Israel as a form of opposing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu?s plan to annex parts of the West Bank.* In separate statements to The Times of Israel this week, California Rep. Brad Sherman, Texas Rep. Joaqu?n Castro, and *New York Rep. Gregory Meeks* each indicated that US military aid should not be used on Israeli annexation moves. The statements from the three Democrats vying to become the next top House lawmaker on foreign affairs signal a growing tide of mainstream Democratic elected officials *who support the use of aid restrictions to influence Israeli actions and policy*. *?I oppose any use of American taxpayer dollars to implement the Annexation Plan or to build any permanent Israeli installation in the West Bank or Gaza,? said Sherman, a longtime ally of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).* Castro also suggested that there should be restrictions on how the annual $3.8 billion in assistance to Israel is used. *?Not a penny of US taxpayer money should subsidize or enable any unilateral annexation of parts of the West Bank,?* he said. ?Under a two-state approach, America has a responsibility to be an arbiter of peace, which means we need trust and credibility with both Israelis and Palestinians.? *Meeks, for his part, stated that America should be willing to leverage aid to Israel over the issue.* ?Annexation is anathema to a two state solution, and *America cannot be used by its proponents to justify a pro-annexation position or policy,?* he said. ?On the contrary, *the United States must be explicit in our opposition by applying pressure against Netanyahu should he annex territory, including leveraging US aid.*? [...] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 16:19:50 2020 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 12:19:50 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] AIPAC Attacks on BernieBros Prove AIPAC Backs Annexation As Much & Soon As Possible In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: AIPAC Attacks on BernieBros Prove AIPAC Backs Annexation As Much & Soon As Possible What do Bernie Sanders, Jamaal Bowman, Alex Morse, and Ihssane Leckey have in common? They all ?oppose BDS.? But they were all attacked by AIPAC anyway. AIPAC is attacking Alex Morse and Ihsanne Leckey right now. Alex Morse and Ihsanne Leckey?s position on ?BDS? is that they personally oppose it but they also oppose any attempts to legislate against Americans? First Amendment right to advocate for it, which is the same position as J Street, which is the same position as the ACLU, which is the same position as the First Amendment. Free Speech. The First Amendment. ?It?s not a radical idea,? as Uncle Bernie might say. But AIPAC is going after these people anyway. Why the venom, when supposedly ?oppose BDS? is the radioactive litmus test for AIPAC? Because it?s not about ?BDS.? That?s a subterfuge, a misdirection. AIPAC?s real Red Line lies elsewhere. They don?t want to say what their real Red Line is where too many people may hear, so they?re using ?oppose BDS? for misdirection. Their real Red Line is: enforce no legislative conditions on U.S. aid to Israel that would effectively block Israeli annexation in the West Bank. AIPAC doesn?t want to admit this publicly because as the *Times of Israel* reported on August 7 , enforcing such conditions on U.S. aid to Israel is becoming a mainstream position among Democrats in Congress, with all three candidates for the chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee embracing it, including Brad Sherman, who is perceived as being particularly ?close to AIPAC.? I saw the underlying situation with clarity when I was making If Not Now phone calls for Ihssane Leckey in Massachusetts. I had read my talking points. I knew what Ihssane Leckey?s position on BDS was. So when a voter said, ?I won?t support Ihssane Leckey because she supports BDS,? I said, no that?s not right. Ihssane Leckey does NOT support BDS. I explained what Ihssane Leckey?s position on BDS was. I had studied for the exam. Well, the voter demanded, what is Ihssane Leckey?s position on Israel? Ihssane Leckey supports leveraging U.S. aid to block Netanyahu from annexing the West Bank, I said. ?That?s just as bad!? the voter cried. ?There must be NO conditions WHATSOEVER on U.S. aid to Israel. They can do whatever they want in the West Bank, we have nothing to say about it.? I asked others about this after the call, and they said yeah, AIPAC has been telling people that Ihssane Leckey supports BDS. So there you go. ?Oppose BDS? is a code, it?s an AIPAC dogwhistle. So-and-so ?supports BDS,? means so-and-so ?doesn?t support Israel.? But what?s the real thoughtcrime that earns the ?enemy? designation, at least in a closely contested primary? Supporting enforcement of conditions on U.S. aid to Israel that would block Israeli annexation in the West Bank. AIPAC has been losing ground on this. AIPAC lost the ability to enforce their line on this on Democratic Senators. As the HFAC race shows, AIPAC is losing the ability to enforce their line on this on House Democrats. They can?t even enforce their line on this on Brad Sherman. This is why some actors have an incentive to muddy the waters about what Greg Meeks? position on this is. Greg Meeks is the Dem Establishment candidate for HFAC Chair. Losing the ability to enforce the AIPAC line on this on Greg Meeks would be a real blow. That?s why they?re pushing on Greg Meeks and apparently trying to distort his position. So AIPAC is losing among Congressional Democrats on this. But they?re still trying to enforce their line on annexation on behalf of Dem Establishment in Democratic primaries. They?re still trying to keep Alex Morse and Ihssane Leckey out of Congress for the thoughtcrime of deviating from AIPAC?s true Red Line. Isn?t that fascinating? AIPAC is effectively trying to define ?supporting Israel? as ?opposing any unnecessary obstacles to annexation.? Why is that? I think Occam?s Razor is clear. AIPAC supports annexation. Not necessarily today or tomorrow. Someday. When conditions are right, when the Israeli government is ready, when the circumstances of realpolitik, of other U.S. priorities and alliances, are sufficiently permissive, then annexation. Until that day, no unnecessary obstacles. In particular, no pesky Democratic Members of Congress trying to enforce conditions on U.S. aid that would block annexation in the future. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 18:16:10 2020 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 14:16:10 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Any Jews here wanna make calls for Alex Morse? Message-ID: Pardon the commercial interruption, but are there any Jews here who might want to make phone calls for Alex Morse? Alex Morse is an American Jew who is running for Congress and has a good chance of winning. He is an unapologetic defender of Palestinian rights. He is endorsed by Justice Democrats and If Not Now. He supports Medicare for All and Green New Deal.His opponent, the 30 year incumbent Richard Neal, is the chair of the "powerful" tax code-writing House Ways and Means Committee. Thus, the showdown is potentially analogous to the defeat of Eliot Engel by Jamaal Bowman in New York City. When we defeated Eliot Engel, we set up a fight for the chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. If we defeat Richard Neal, we set up a fight for the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee. Getting control of, or even having more say in, the leadership of the House Ways and Means Committee would be yuuuuge. For example: you may have heard there was a kerfuffle over the language in the Democratic Platform on ending subsidies for fossil fuel extraction. That issue is in the jurisdiction of the House Ways and Means Committee. That's a reason that Richard Neal is the top House recipient of corporate campaign cash. On Israel-Palestine, we could go after the tax exempt status of U.S. groups that support Israeli settlements in the West Bank, among other ideas. Recent polling had Alex Morse down a few points, with a bunch of people undecided. Under Covid and quarantine, door-knocking is cancelled, so phone calling is a key tool for reaching undecided voters and turning out voters who might not otherwise vote. The plus side is, you can do the phone calling from anywhere. If Not Now/End the Occupation PAC has a Zoom calling party for Alex on Monday evening at 6pm ET. Here is the link to sign up: https://actionnetwork.org/forms/phonebank-for-anti-occupation-candidates-2 If you sign up, you get the Zoom info for the call. If you don't show up, or if you have to leave early, nothing bad happens. P.S. You don't have to "present as Jewish" to make calls. Nobody is checking. We don't identify as Jews when we make the calls. We just identify as volunteers for Alex Morse. :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Fri Aug 21 18:37:52 2020 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 18:37:52 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] RichardWolfe lesson Message-ID: <57CB7F5B-A6BF-4C22-91AE-21532D5BCDF8@illinois.edu> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCu459N3JuQ&feature=emb_rel_end Economics 101, well taught. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Fri Aug 21 22:06:58 2020 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 22:06:58 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Why_so_little_about_foreign_policy_and?= =?utf-8?q?_other_vital_topics=E2=80=A6=3F?= Message-ID: <34BBF5D9-7E58-4CC4-AEF6-34022887B6D8@illinois.edu> Try this series of commentaries from Medea Benjamin, Phyllis Bennis, and Vijay Prasad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgwGh9-uPio&feature=youtu.be ?mkb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Sat Aug 22 05:27:27 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 00:27:27 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] AOTA & NFN video recommendations Message-ID: Here are the latest batch of videos I recommended to UPTV's Jason Liggett for running during AOTA & NFN. As before, I've recommended to prioritize my suggestions behind anyone else's in case there's something else you'd rather be seen instead. -J BlackAgendaReport.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsdUc0jY5CM -- (39m 44s) Left Lens episode 4: BlackAgendaReport.com's Margaret Kimberley & Danny Haiphong discuss "Why Trump Can Still Win and Why We Must Oppose U.S.' New Cold War Against China". Consortium News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qs3JCnhsNI -- (22m 12s) "More Courtroom Chaos at Assange August Hearing with Deepa Driver" -- a summary of recent courtroom action in the ongoing Assange hearings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIp9jziqqbU -- (1h 4m 56s) "WikiLeaks Iraq War Logs: What it means for Press Freedom" -- WikiLeaks on the importance of the Iraq War Logs. Grayzone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31qQcY_kX9c -- (1h 18m 45s) "DNC embraces neocons, and Russiagate just won't die" -- Aaron Mat?, Ben Norton, and Max Blumenthal review the DNC offering in the Biden campaign (which is basically nothing, eminently fulfilling Biden's promise to his rich donors "Nothing would fundamentally change", and ongoing Russiagate claims. CODEPINK live pre-DNC commentary Thanks to Morton Brussel for this video pointer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgwGh9-uPio -- (1h 24m) Medea Benjamin, Phyllis Bennis, and Vijay Prasad on foreign policy. No to the New Cold War in China A series of short talks, each talk from a different speaker, all addressing this topic, objecting to a new cold war with China. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLgbxjQ3moY -- (10m 27s) Max Blumenthal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXVz-0KcBtA -- (7m 15s) Margaret Kimberley https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO6xkRB5FG0 -- (6m 40s) Qiao Collective https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFYHwSDd180 -- (9m 54s) Radhika Desai https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RcR4B16iFo -- (6m 58s) Carlos Ron https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVclN5fQnMY -- (7m 12s) Vijay Prashad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwEAAsXb72A -- (6m 2s) Yang Hangyi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDbMNtf5_NU -- (3m 27s) Kate Hudson From jbn at forestfield.org Sat Aug 22 08:59:05 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 03:59:05 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Hollywood health care might spur some class consideration Message-ID: Not that you should pay attention to celebrities advising just about anything. Some notable vocal celebrities are quite wealthy and therefore not in the same class as most working people who live paycheck to paycheck and work multiple part-time jobs with no "benefits". Those workers work out of necessity to try to make ends meet without hundreds of thousands of dollars to fall back in lean times. But this is getting some press: https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/sag-aftra-health-plan-makes-premium-eligibility-changes-1234733801/ https://variety.com/2020/film/news/sag-aftra-health-plan-changes-unite-for-strength-1234738032/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/the-fight-within-sag-aftra-over-health-care In short: SAG-AFTRA (the screen and radio union) health care plan is changing on January 1, 2021. Some of the highlights of this change: - "One of the most significant changes appears to be in how spouses of union members are covered. According to the newsletter, if a union member?s spouse is offered health insurance by their employer, said spouse must accept that coverage and move off the SAG-AFTRA plan." - "The newsletter also details new premiums. Coverage for one participant on the plan will increase to $375 per quarter; for one participant and one dependent, the premium will be $531 per quarter; premiums for one participant and two or more dependents will be $747 per quarter." - Under the new plan the lower-income limit (to qualify for health care coverage) is being raised: members used to qualify for the SAG-AFTRA health insurance if they made at least $18,040 in a year. Now members need to make $25,950 in a year to qualify, and residuals do not count toward that total. This might help motivate those whom Jimmy Dore rightly calls "blue check assholes" (referring to their Twitter-verified accounts having blue checkmark icons on their Twitter account) to support Medicare for All and possibly reconsider their public support for Joe Biden (who has repeatedly reiterated his complete lack of support for Medicare for All). Now that their health care is being threatened, they have reason to consider serious domestic policymaking that could benefit most Americans. Jimmy Dore talked about this on 2020-08-21 evening so there should be a segmented video on this coming out on his channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/TYTComedy/videos) soon. Keep an eye on his channel for a live conference announcing a new political party as well. Let's hope it's not some laughably inept pseudo-progressive time-waster that tries to convince you to vote Democrat or give disaffected Democratic Party representatives a place to go. That could very quickly turn into a sham built to lose to the Democrats (like the Washington Generals are to the Harlem Globetrotters). From carl at newsfromneptune.com Sat Aug 22 19:08:58 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 14:08:58 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: The Link Between Sex Trafficking, Abortion, and Planned Parenthood References: <1598108681340.ef7f3f07-e0e8-46ef-ac43-e1019449d22b@bf10x.hubspotemail.net> Message-ID: <3250301A-AB2F-4EC5-8B39-C17BC4BAB31A@newsfromneptune.com> > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Live Action News > Subject: The Link Between Sex Trafficking, Abortion, and Planned Parenthood > Date: August 22, 2020 at 10:06:18 AM CDT > To: carl at newsfromneptune.com > Reply-To: info at liveaction.org > > > > > The Link Between Sex Trafficking, Abortion, and Planned Parenthood > ?The abortion industry is profiting tremendously [from sex trafficking] ?financially,? explained Nita Belles, regional director for Oregonians Against Trafficking Humans. It?s a cruel, inhumane, brutal circle in which Planned Parenthood can often be found at the center. Read more > MORE PRO-LIFE NEWS > > > Journalists Who Exposed Planned Parenthood Scandal Seek Dismissal of Remaining Felony Charges > The original suit alleged that Merritt knowingly violated California state laws forbidding the recording of private conversations without the other party?s explicit consent, even though all recorded conversations were filmed in public places. Read more > > Lawmakers Demand Investigation Into Arrest of Pro-Life Students in D.C. > Two lawmakers are calling for an investigation into the ?unconstitutional viewpoint discrimination? of two pro-life students who were arrested in Washington, D.C., after using sidewalk chalk to write the phrase ?Black Pre-Born Lives Matter? in front of a local Planned Parenthood. Read more > > Austin City Council Reroutes Taxpayer Funding From Police Budget To ?Abortion Access? > According to the Texas Tribune, the Council agreed to cut about $150 million from the Austin Police Department?s budget for 2021 after the department faced criticism in the death of an unarmed Black and Latino man in April and for the use of force against people participating in anti-police brutality protests. Instead, that money will go toward social programs that the Council believes will help end racism ? including abortion. Read more > > > Mother Receives Hate Mail Calling Her a ?Monster? for Not Aborting Her Children With Disabilities > A British mother of four children, two of whom are autistic, reported this month that she received hate mail telling her she should have aborted her disabled children. The letter read in part, ?What kind of monster are you, and did you ever hear of abortion. You must be very stupid.? Ironically, included with the letter was a printed religious card which read, ?Prayer. Oh Holy Spirit Please help me and guide me. Say this 3 times plus per day.? Read more > > Thousands Line up To Adopt Boy in Foster Care After TV Appeal: ?I Hope One of Y?all Pick Me? > A heartwarming news story out of Oklahoma led to more than 5,000 adoption inquiries for one special little boy. Read more > > ?Light Blue Wave?: How the Pro-Life Movement Is Spreading Across Latin America > The pro-life message has been gaining traction across Latin America these past few years in a movement known as the ?Light Blue Wave.? The movement began in August 2018 after the Argentina?s Senate rejected a bill in a 38-31 vote that would have legalized abortion on demand. Read more > > Documents Reveal Keisha Atkins Was Repeatedly Drugged by Abortion Facility Before Her Death > Recently released documents from Abortion On Trial offer new insight into the death of 23-year-old Keisha Atkins. Read more > > Bindi Irwin Is Pregnant: ?This Beautiful Little Being Has Become the Most Important Part of Our Lives? > Conservationist and celebrity Bindi Irwin has announced she is expecting her first child with husband Chandler Powell. Irwin, the daughter of late Australian conservationist Steve Irwin, married Powell just five months ago at the Australia Zoo in Queensland, which was opened by her grandparents and is still operated by the Irwin family. Read more > > I Aborted a Child Due To Incest. To This Day, I Still Deeply Mourn the Loss of My Baby. > I had an abortion When I was 21. I did it out of fear because my child was conceived out of incest. [...] Still to this day I cry and deeply mourn the loss of my child. Nothing has hurt me more than knowing that I killed my baby. I was supposed to be there to protect him. I wanted him in my life so much but I was a coward and took the easy way out. I can?t stand myself for the decision I made. Read more > > Live Action News is the publishing arm of Live Action > > Live Action is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. Gifts are tax-deductible in the United States. > No goods or services are offered or given in exchange for contributions > > Live Action 2200 Wilson Blvd. Suite 102 PMB 111 Arlington VA 22201 > > You received this email because you are subscribed to Live Action News Weekly Updates from Live Action. > > Update your email preferences to choose the types of emails you receive. > > Unsubscribe from all future emails > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Sun Aug 23 04:03:42 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 23:03:42 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Hollywood health care might spur some class consideration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7745e1d6-a068-2ecc-fe11-b0337a6732d2@forestfield.org> I wrote: > Jimmy Dore talked about this on 2020-08-21 evening so there should be a segmented > video on this coming out on his channel > (https://www.youtube.com/user/TYTComedy/videos) soon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLx24T_t_0Q is that video. Dore does a great job of pointing out the Democratic Party voter shaming (shaming voters for demanding things of politicians seeking their vote), pushing voting for Biden who has multiply pledged to not give you Medicare for All, Biden's corruption, the fact that it was the Obama-Biden administration that got us Trump, and framing this issue around Medicare for All. Medicare for All is an issue so important it could make this election in the midst of a pandemic. -J From moboct1 at aim.com Mon Aug 24 00:58:55 2020 From: moboct1 at aim.com (Mildred O'brien) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 00:58:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Any Jews here wanna make calls for Alex Morse? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1200163011.5254211.1598230735246@mail.yahoo.com> Excuse me for asking, but in what Congressional District is Alex Morse running? Here in Champain-Bananas I confess ignorance of New York politics, but Morse sounds like a worthy candidate.? Too bad I'm not able to vote in the big apple.? Curious, when did you move out of Illinois? Midge ?? -----Original Message-----M From: Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss To: Peace Discuss Sent: Fri, Aug 21, 2020 11:16 am Subject: [Peace-discuss] Any Jews here wanna make calls for Alex Morse? Pardon the commercial interruption, but are there any Jews here who might want to make phone calls for Alex Morse?? Alex Morse is an American Jew who is running for Congress and has a good chance of winning. He is an unapologetic defender of Palestinian rights. He is endorsed by Justice Democrats and If Not Now. He supports Medicare for All and Green New Deal.His opponent, the 30 year incumbent Richard Neal, is the chair of the "powerful" tax code-writing House Ways and Means Committee.? Thus, the showdown is potentially analogous to the defeat of Eliot Engel by Jamaal Bowman in New York City. When we defeated Eliot Engel, we set up a fight for the chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. If we defeat Richard Neal, we set up a fight for the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee.? Getting control of, or even having more say in, the leadership of the House Ways and Means Committee would be yuuuuge. For example: you may have heard there was a kerfuffle over the language in the Democratic Platform on ending subsidies for fossil fuel extraction. That issue is in the jurisdiction of the House Ways and Means Committee. That's a reason that Richard Neal is the top House recipient of corporate campaign cash.? On Israel-Palestine, we could go after the tax exempt status of U.S. groups that support Israeli settlements in the West Bank, among other ideas.? Recent polling had Alex Morse down a few points, with a bunch of people undecided. Under Covid and quarantine, door-knocking is cancelled, so phone calling is a key tool for reaching undecided voters and turning out voters who might not otherwise vote.? The plus side is, you can do the phone calling from anywhere.? If Not Now/End the Occupation PAC has a Zoom calling party for Alex on Monday evening at 6pm ET.? Here is the link to sign up: https://actionnetwork.org/forms/phonebank-for-anti-occupation-candidates-2 If you sign up, you get the Zoom info for the call. If you don't show up, or if you have to leave early, nothing bad happens.? P.S. You don't have to "present as Jewish" to make calls. Nobody is checking. We don't identify as Jews when we make the calls. We just identify as volunteers for Alex Morse. :)? _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 16:54:35 2020 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 12:54:35 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] To End the Wars, Visualize War Powers in a Post-Pelosi World In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To End the Wars, Visualize War Powers in a Post-Pelosi World The open breach in the Democratic Party between the AOC/Justice Democrats-led coalition and the Pelosi/Dem Megadonor-led coalition over the ?too close to call? Markey-Kennedy Senate race in Massachusetts this week opens up a new vista of human freedom: the ability to visualize a post-Pelosi, post-Dem Establishment Megadonor world in the Democratic Party. I call this a ?post-Pelosi world? as a shorthand, acknowledging that the key obstacle to reform is not merely an individual human being, but the domination of the Democratic Party by the Dem Establishment Megadonor coalition led by Pelosi. To end the wars, we need to live in a post-Pelosi world. We need to live in a world where Pelosi is not dominating the House Democratic Caucus by trickling down Megadonor campaign cash like Mayor Daley the First controlled the Chicago Democratic Machine. If we want to live in that world, we need to start by visualizing it. To end the wars, we need to restore Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the United States Constitution - the War Powers Clause - which assigns the decision to go to war to Congress, not the President. If the last two decades of war have taught us anything, it?s that leaving this power in the hands of the President and his royal court of Megadonor-genuflecting Blob advisors is a guarantee of more war. Exactly as the authors of the Constitution foresaw. Which is exactly why they assigned this power to Congress, not the President. To restore Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the United States Constitution, we need to restore Section 2(c) and Section 5(c) of the War Powers Resolution of 1973. Section 2(c) is a restatement of Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 in the language of 1973. Section 5(c) is Thor?s Hammer for enforcing Section 2(c). It states that notwithstanding anything else, at any time that U.S. forces are involved in hostilities that Congress hasn?t authorized, the President shall remove U.S. forces from those hostilities if Congress so directs by concurrent resolution. A ?concurrent? resolution is a resolution passed by both houses of Congress without being submitted to the President for signature. Because it?s not submitted to the President for signature, the President can?t veto it. As outgoing House Foreign Affairs Committee Chair Eliot Engel stated on the House floor in January, the idea of this mechanism is 100% consistent with the fundamental idea of Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the Constitution and with the fundamental idea of Section 2(c) of the War Powers Resolution of 1973 which restates Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the Constitution: this war-deciding power belongs to Congress, not the President. Without the mechanism of Section 5(c), the War Powers Resolution of 1973 would be eviscerated and Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the Constitution would be eviscerated. In order to restore Section 5(c) of the War Powers Resolution of 1973, we need to live in a post-Pelosi world. As long as Pelosi is controlling the House Democratic Caucus like Mayor Daley on behalf of the Dem Megadonor coalition, Section 5(c) will be eviscerated, and with it the War Powers Resolution of 1973, and with it Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the U.S. Constitution. The key reason that we need to live in a post-Pelosi world to restore Section 5(c) is that a key idea of the Section 5(c) concurrent War Powers Resolution is that it?s a ?privileged? resolution. It concerns the Constitutional privileges of the House, like impeachment, so it has a priority status for floor consideration, like Priority Mail. It must go to the floor for a vote if the sponsor insists. It cannot be killed by inaction of the Foreign Affairs Committee. But if all the members of the House Democratic Caucus are cowering before the Democratic Speaker like frightened children, waiting for permission to speak, then the Section 5(c) mechanism doesn?t work. The key idea of a ?privileged? resolution is the ability to get to the floor for a vote without having to get permission from the Speaker before you introduce your bill. There are many paths to curbing the power of Pelosi to dominate the House Democratic Caucus like Mayor Daley. A simple idea unites them all: weaken and delegitimize Pelosi as a leader of the Democratic Party. Every time Pelosi is defeated by the AOC/Justice Democrats-led coalition, Pelosi is weakened and delegitimized as a leader of the Democratic Party. This is also on the ballot in Massachusetts this week: a referendum on weakening and delegitimizing Pelosi as a leader of the Democratic Party. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 18:34:34 2020 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 14:34:34 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Any Jews here wanna make calls for Alex Morse? In-Reply-To: <1200163011.5254211.1598230735246@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1200163011.5254211.1598230735246@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alex Morse is running in MA-1. You can't vote for him, but you can make phone calls to voters for him. Activists making phone calls to voters is a key means by which we equalize with the power of the money of Dem Establishment Megadonors and their attack ads and mailers. It's a key means by which we beat Eliot Engel. There is an End the Occupation PAC phone bank tonight, 6-8 pm ET, 5-7 pm Champaign-Urbana time. https://actionnetwork.org/forms/phonebank-for-anti-occupation-candidates-2 When did I move out of Illinois: it all depends on what your definition of "move" is. :) On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 8:59 PM Mildred O'brien via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > Excuse me for asking, but in what Congressional District is Alex Morse > running? Here in Champain-Bananas I confess ignorance of New York politics, > but Morse sounds like a worthy candidate. Too bad I'm not able to vote in > the big apple. Curious, when did you move out of Illinois? > > Midge > > > > > -----Original Message-----M > From: Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss > To: Peace Discuss > Sent: Fri, Aug 21, 2020 11:16 am > Subject: [Peace-discuss] Any Jews here wanna make calls for Alex Morse? > > Pardon the commercial interruption, but are there any Jews here who might > want to make phone calls for Alex Morse? > > Alex Morse is an American Jew who is running for Congress and has a good > chance of winning. He is an unapologetic defender of Palestinian rights. He > is endorsed by Justice Democrats and If Not Now. He supports Medicare for > All and Green New Deal.His opponent, the 30 year incumbent Richard Neal, is > the chair of the "powerful" tax code-writing House Ways and Means > Committee. > > Thus, the showdown is potentially analogous to the defeat of Eliot Engel > by Jamaal Bowman in New York City. When we defeated Eliot Engel, we set up > a fight for the chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. If we defeat > Richard Neal, we set up a fight for the chair of the House Ways and Means > Committee. > > Getting control of, or even having more say in, the leadership of the > House Ways and Means Committee would be yuuuuge. For example: you may have > heard there was a kerfuffle over the language in the Democratic Platform on > ending subsidies for fossil fuel extraction. That issue is in the > jurisdiction of the House Ways and Means Committee. That's a reason that > Richard Neal is the top House recipient of corporate campaign cash. > > On Israel-Palestine, we could go after the tax exempt status of U.S. > groups that support Israeli settlements in the West Bank, among other > ideas. > > Recent polling had Alex Morse down a few points, with a bunch of people > undecided. Under Covid and quarantine, door-knocking is cancelled, so phone > calling is a key tool for reaching undecided voters and turning out voters > who might not otherwise vote. > > The plus side is, you can do the phone calling from anywhere. > > If Not Now/End the Occupation PAC has a Zoom calling party for Alex on > Monday evening at 6pm ET. > > Here is the link to sign up: > > https://actionnetwork.org/forms/phonebank-for-anti-occupation-candidates-2 > > If you sign up, you get the Zoom info for the call. If you don't show up, > or if you have to leave early, nothing bad happens. > > P.S. You don't have to "present as Jewish" to make calls. Nobody is > checking. We don't identify as Jews when we make the calls. We just > identify as volunteers for Alex Morse. :) > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carl at newsfromneptune.com Tue Aug 25 02:55:34 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 21:55:34 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Update: Glenn Greenwald will join our webinar on Monday! [8/24 Webinar] Why Edward Snowden Deserves a Pardon References: Message-ID: > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Sue at Defending Rights & Dissent > Subject: Update: Glenn Greenwald will join our webinar on Monday! [8/24 Webinar] Why Edward Snowden Deserves a Pardon > Date: August 23, 2020 at 1:36:29 PM CDT > To: Carl Estabrook > Reply-To: info at RightsandDissent.org > > UPDATE: We're pleased to announce that we'll be joined by Glenn Greenwald, the journalist who broke the Snowden revelations. I hope you can join us for this timely webinar: Monday, August 24 at 6 pm eastern/ 3 pm pacific. We'll livestream on our website , over Youtube and on our Facebook page . > > Please RSVP for the event here. > > > Carl, > > Edward Snowden is again in the news as Trump says he is considering pardoning him . While it is unclear how serious this is, Trump?s comments have launched a renewed debate about Snowden. Snowden is currently charged under the Espionage Act for revealing to the US people the vast extent of the NSA?s mass surveillance programs that directly infringe on our rights. > > It is outrageous that government officials who engage in abuses of power suffer no consequences, while those who bravely expose these abuses of power are prosecuted under the draconian and archaic Espionage Act. > > Unfortunately, many of the loudest voices in the debate on Snowden have been proponents of surveillance and secrecy. It?s time to hear from a few whistleblowers and their advocates on why Snowden deserves a pardon. > > Join us for a special virtual conversation, entitled "Pardon Snowden!" on Monday, August 24 at 6:00 pm ET with Glenn Greenwald, the journalist who broke the Snowden revelations, the head of ExposeFacts' Whistleblower and Source Protection Program Jesselyn Radack, and NSA whistleblower Dr. Thomas Drake about why - regardless of the motives behind the sandstorm distractions coming out of the White House - Edward Snowden deserves a presidential pardon. > > > RSVP! > > > > > > > > > > Subscribe > > Donate > > Our Work > > Defending Rights & Dissent > 1325 G St. NW Suite 500 | Washington, District of Columbia 20005 > 202.552.7408 | info at rightsanddissent.org > Follow Us > > > Having trouble viewing this email? View it in your web browser > Unsubscribe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue Aug 25 17:19:52 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 10:19:52 -0700 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Recommended videos for AOTA & NFN timeslots In-Reply-To: <7798e6b1-d93c-8699-7280-62db85e5d7fe@forestfield.org> References: <7798e6b1-d93c-8699-7280-62db85e5d7fe@forestfield.org> Message-ID: J.B. Thank you for the links to the discussions below: I especially appreciate those from the Grayzone, always very informative. The one by Ben Norton covering the VOA on Twitter should be heard by all. Most of us politically active during the seventies were well aware of the USG/CIA/VOA connection especially in relation to Asia, I knew Asians working for them at the time, Georgetown U. grad students, how else could they afford to go to school there? What makes this so compelling is Ben reveals the other organizations, and contractors involved and how they get away with the lies they do. I agree with your analysis of the interview with Greg Palast. The information he reveals is worthwhile, and I always post Chris Hedges interviews on FB, this one I did not for the reason you give below. > On Aug 12, 2020, at 18:14, J.B. Nicholson via Peace wrote: > > Videos I recently sent to UPTV's Jason Liggett for playing during AOTA & NFN timeslots. > > > > RT > > https://youtube.com/watch?v=iCEEFaP39K0 -- (28m 8s) Chris Hedges interviews Greg Palast on voter fraud and stealing elections. > > Transcript: https://www.rt.com/shows/on-contact/497436-voter-fraud-greg-palast/ > > The majority of this interview concerns how the Republicans are fixing the voting system against likely Democratic Party voters, thereby illegally and unethically increasing the odds of a Republican win. Palast says that this was behind Trump's 2016 win against Hillary Clinton and Palast cites uncounted votes in Michigan as an example. > > I'm recommending this interview despite one glaring problem with Palast's analysis: the Democrats don't give us evidence that they care about losing in this way. I don't concur with Palast's race-based explanation for why the Congressional Black Caucus (nor, apparently, other "progressive" Democrats) won't raise election problems as an issue. We got 4+ years of Russiagate and virtually no election irregularity analysis. Perhaps both arms of the business party are working well enough as-is regardless of which party wins, so there's no hurry to look out for the disenfranchised. > > > > > > > Grayzone > > https://youtube.com/watch?v=Xpq4SNJNcmA -- (5m 10s) "Western media's favorite 'Hong Kong activist' is US regime-changer in yellowface" -- are "Kong Tsung-gan" and "Xun Yuezang" pseudonyms for Brian Kern? Grayzone highlights some connections which "would mean that Brian Kern is Kong Tsung-gan in yellowface" (as Grayzone put it at 2m38s in this report). > > Report: https://thegrayzone.com/2020/08/08/hong-kong-western-media-yellowfacing-amnesty/ > > https://youtube.com/watch?v=oEcuygrqTSE -- (14m 40s) "Twitter spreads nonstop US gov't paid propaganda, while falsely claiming it bans state media ads" > > Report: https://thegrayzone.com/2020/08/10/twitter-us-state-media-ads-voa-persian/ > > https://youtube.com/watch?v=qhNXrwRL5Ic -- (38m 56s) "US gov regime-change plot in Nicaragua exposed" > > > > > Lee Fang/Intercept > > https://youtube.com/watch?v=AGplYzKYgyQ -- (1h 21m 39s) "Covid strengthens ruling class grip on the U.S." (Lee Fang sitting in for Glenn Greenwald) > > > > > Jimmy Dore -- sequential segments of Dore's 2020-08-11 interview with Max Blumenthal > > https://youtube.com/watch?v=4uEGmRgBHvQ -- (10m 47s) "It's a Big Club & We Ain't In It!" on how the Democrats are running an ad which misrepresents George Carlin's routine, and how the Democrats and Republicans both mistreat girls and women. > > https://youtube.com/watch?v=kzuA3fjTUg0 -- (20m 6s) "Biden Pick His VP -- KAMALA Is A Cop!" > > https://youtube.com/watch?v=wlDXJbdkOas -- (15m 50s) "Kamala & Biden's Endless Circle of Hypocrisy!" > > > > Consortium News > > https://youtube.com/watch?v=iRGEp5_QX0Q -- (9m 5s) "Former Guardian Journalist Nick Davis: Crimes in the Afghan War Logs" > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace From carl at newsfromneptune.com Wed Aug 26 18:42:52 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 13:42:52 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Live Action News Daily Digest: August 26th References: <1598462946762.b769adb5-cfd9-4fe0-a415-480eb7238f07@bf10x.hubspotemail.net> Message-ID: <1DCBB04E-407B-4F25-A354-C63AA8632F5C@newsfromneptune.com> > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Live Action News > Subject: Live Action News Daily Digest: August 26th > Date: August 26, 2020 at 12:31:52 PM CDT > To: carl at newsfromneptune.com > Reply-To: info at liveaction.org > > > Hi C. G., > > We hope your week is going well! > > Here are some of our recent articles for you: > > WATCH: Two-year-old Ezekiel, a survivor of two attempted abortions, sings praises to God > Eric and Mandy Godwin wanted to share the faith and joy of their adopted son Ezekiel ? an abortion survivor ? with their friends and church members. But now, the video of the sweet two-year-old singing along to a Christian worship song has gone viral on Facebook, amassing more than two million views. Read more > The late-term abortion that killed Keisha Atkins and her baby was funded by taxpayers > In 2017, 23-year-old Keisha Atkins died during an elective late-term abortion at Southwestern Women?s Options in New Mexico. It has now come to light that taxpayers paid for that abortion through New Mexico?s Medicaid program. Read more > Former employees accuse another powerful abortion organization of racism > Employees of color within the abortion rights organization NARAL Pro-Choice America are publicly accusing the organization of racism. The employees? goal, according to Buzzfeed reporter Emma O?Connor, is to call out the ?hypocrisy at their own organizations? and proclaim that the time for ?white feminism? is over. Read more > Thank you for all you do on behalf of the preborn! > > For life, > > The Live Action News Team > > Live Action is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. Gifts are tax-deductible in the United States. > No goods or services are offered or given in exchange for contributions > > Live Action 2200 Wilson Blvd. Suite 102 PMB 111, Arlington, VA 22201 > > You received this message because you are subscribed to LAN Daily Digest Emails from Live Action. > If you would rather not receive this type of email, you can update your email preferences here or unsubscribe from all future emails. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From loisiyoga at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 18:56:22 2020 From: loisiyoga at gmail.com (Lois Steinberg) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 13:56:22 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Live Action News Daily Digest: August 26th In-Reply-To: <1DCBB04E-407B-4F25-A354-C63AA8632F5C@newsfromneptune.com> References: <1598462946762.b769adb5-cfd9-4fe0-a415-480eb7238f07@bf10x.hubspotemail.net> <1DCBB04E-407B-4F25-A354-C63AA8632F5C@newsfromneptune.com> Message-ID: HI Carl, I really like you and your intelligence, debate skills, and more. However, I have to block you now because your stance against a woman's health and right to choose breaks my heart and makes my stomach churn. I suggest a different approach would be to support sex education, fully funded birth control, higher pay for child care workers, Scandinavian model of paid maternity and paternity leave with guarantee of job security, funding for supporting families that have handicapped children, a monthly stipend for every child until age 18 regardless of family income, and more. These are a lot of issues that could use your genius and support instead of obsessing on abortion. love, zlois Love, Lois On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 1:43 PM C. G. Estabrook via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > *From: *Live Action News > *Subject: **Live Action News Daily Digest: August 26th* > *Date: *August 26, 2020 at 12:31:52 PM CDT > *To: *carl at newsfromneptune.com > *Reply-To: *info at liveaction.org > > [image: LA-blue3] > > Hi C. G., > > We hope your week is going well! > > Here are some of our recent articles for you: > > - *WATCH: Two-year-old Ezekiel, a survivor of two attempted abortions, > sings praises to God* > > > Eric and Mandy Godwin wanted to share the faith and joy of their > adopted son Ezekiel ? an abortion survivor ? with their friends and church > members. But now, the video of the sweet two-year-old singing along to a > Christian worship song has gone viral on Facebook, amassing more than two > million views. *Read more* > > ------------------------------ > - *The late-term abortion that killed Keisha Atkins and her baby was > funded by taxpayers* > > > In 2017, 23-year-old Keisha Atkins died during an elective late-term > abortion at Southwestern Women?s Options in New Mexico. It has now come to > light that taxpayers paid for that abortion through New Mexico?s Medicaid > program. *Read more* > > ------------------------------ > - *Former employees accuse another powerful abortion organization of > racism* > > > Employees of color within the abortion rights organization NARAL > Pro-Choice America are publicly accusing the organization of racism. The > employees? goal, according to Buzzfeed reporter Emma O?Connor, is to call > out the ?hypocrisy at their own organizations? and proclaim that the time > for ?white feminism? is over. *Read more* > > ------------------------------ > > Thank you for all you do on behalf of the preborn! > > For life, > > *The Live Action News Team* > > Live Action is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. Gifts are > tax-deductible in the United States. > No goods or services are offered or given in exchange for contributions > > Live Action 2200 Wilson Blvd. Suite 102 PMB 111, Arlington, VA 22201 > > You received this message because you are subscribed to LAN Daily Digest > Emails from Live Action. > If you would rather not receive this type of email, you can update your email > preferences here > > or unsubscribe from all future emails. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Wed Aug 26 21:14:55 2020 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 21:14:55 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Restoration in Washington? References: Message-ID: <6F8F6C3B-4ED5-48EF-85CC-4B47CC21A149@illinois.edu> A view from the editor of Le Monde Diplomatique, one voice of the French Left reflecting a certain French cynicism, or perhaps incredulity. Begin forwarded message: From: Le Monde diplomatique > Subject: Restoration in Washington? Date: August 26, 2020 at 11:18:35 AM CDT To: english at mondediplo.net Reply-To: Le Monde diplomatique > [https://mondediplo.com/plugins/diplo/info_diplo_en/infodiplo/images/logo-infodiplo-en.png] Restoration in Washington? by Serge Halimi In 2008, when Barack Obama chose veteran centrist Joe Biden as his vice-presidential running mate, it seemed a prudent choice: Democrats had already expressed their desire for change by choosing a progressive African American who opposed the Iraq war to succeed George W Bush. In November, it's Biden's turn to run for the top job. Since he does not quicken any pulses, good political casting called for a running mate who would symbolise something more exciting than himself ? not political radicalism, but inclusion. So he picked Kamala Harris, who has a Jamaican father, Indian mother and Jewish husband. The boldness stops there. The senator from California is a conventional, opportunistic politician, best known for her solid personal ambition and consummate talent for fund-raising with billionaires (1). US stocks, which had already jumped in March when Biden beat Bernie Sanders for the nomination, rose still further on the news of Harris's selection. After the failure of her bid for the Democratic presidential nomination ? she withdrew at the end of last year before the first primaries ? she will owe everything to the man who chose her, whom she may one day succeed. So it's all worked out well. They see more or less eye to eye: America is big and beautiful, and a few reforms will make it even better; its values inspire the world, and its military alliances protect liberal democracy from tyrants. Biden and Harris are not committing to do much more than Obama did during his two terms. At least they won't make a reckless claim like he did in the summer before his election: 'We will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.' By the time Trump succeeded Obama eight years later, those children had grown up, and the oceans were still rising. However limited, the Biden-Harris ticket has at least one aim that will create enthusiasm: kicking the current incumbent out of the White House and cleansing an institution Democrats see as now debased by a racketeer. One Democrat leader recently compared Trump to Mussolini (and suggested 'Putin is Hitler') (2). Such a hate figure should ensure a good Democrat turnout on 3 November. Most European governments too are hoping for a return to a 'normal' American presidency. They are quite unable to detach themselves from the US leadership, even when it is in the hands of an uneducated loudmouth, and they imagine that a Democrat administration will treat them a bit more kindly. And restore some credibility to the usual platitudes about democracy, the 'free world' and the values of the West. Is such a reset a cause for celebration simply because the alternative looks so apocalyptic? Translated by George Miller (1) Michela Tindera, 'Billionaires Loved Kamala Harris', Forbes, New York, 12 August 2020. (2) Jim Clyburn, Majority Whip in the House of Representatives, CNN, 2 August 2020. This article is part of the September 2020 issue of Le Monde diplomatique english edition Contact us For any request about your subscription : subs at mondediplo.com ? Le Monde diplomatique / August 2020 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kmedina67 at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 21:34:29 2020 From: kmedina67 at gmail.com (kmedina67) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 16:34:29 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Live Action News Daily Digest: August 26th Message-ID: <5f46d569.1c69fb81.5979.03f5@mx.google.com> Thank you, Lois.And, I would add that women's reproductive rights, or lack of rights, affect the poor the most.?Just as slave owners legally owned the bodies, controlled the reproduction, and limited education for generations, so has the Catholic church created a power class to manipulate and interfere with women, especially poor women, gaining power over their own bodies and their reproduction. It has been quite effective at limiting the role of women to that of mother, thereby thwarting any chance of gaining time and energy for education. Classism.- Karen Medina"The really great make you feel that you, too, can become great" - Mark Twain null -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Aug 26 21:48:44 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 14:48:44 -0700 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Live Action News Daily Digest: August 26th In-Reply-To: <5f46d569.1c69fb81.5979.03f5@mx.google.com> References: <5f46d569.1c69fb81.5979.03f5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Well said Karen. > On Aug 26, 2020, at 14:34, kmedina67 via Peace wrote: > > > Thank you, Lois. > And, I would add that women's reproductive rights, or lack of rights, affect the poor the most. > > Just as slave owners legally owned the bodies, controlled the reproduction, and limited education for generations, so has the Catholic church created a power class to manipulate and interfere with women, especially poor women, gaining power over their own bodies and their reproduction. It has been quite effective at limiting the role of women to that of mother, thereby thwarting any chance of gaining time and energy for education. Classism. > > > > - Karen Medina > "The really great make you feel that you, too, can become great" - Mark Twain > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Wed Aug 26 23:15:07 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 18:15:07 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Jimmy Dore takes on virtue-signaling Dems and class politics Message-ID: <90f27aae-8675-bf3d-9469-19cdf7c01343@forestfield.org> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-cPaxvkbs8 -- (39m 08s) Jimmy Dore and other Twitter users respond to virtue-signaling corporate-compatible comic Dana Gould as Gould stumps for Joe Biden (including red baiting Tulsi Gabbard). Gould was subsequently challenged on the facts and then Gould unpublished many of his tweets in this thread. This is another example of multiple themes from Dore all of which fall on class lines, not being tripped up in distractions of 'intersectionalism' or race comparisons of who has it worst. The live show in which this was featured yesterday included discussion about Dore's poor choice of language when describing people he doesn't like (specifically "pussies" instead of "wimps" and "cocksuckers" instead of "sycophants"). Dore and his wife/co-host Stef Zamorano admit that his use of those terms are poor choices and make no sense for Dore specifically because he likes heterosexual sex. But the issues that affect the most people remains the same: class politics and the horrors of impoverishment. The Democrats offer voters no reason to vote for the Biden/Harris campaign because the Democrats offer no policies that distinguish their party from the Republicans. Both support: no Medicare for All, no universal basic income, no national jobs program, the ongoing Drug War, immigrant detention which includes locking up kids in cages, and both of their party standards bearers have ugly histories with women to name a few examples. Biden also voted for the 2003 US/UK-led invasion of Iraq and he rallied other senators to do the same, and Biden wrote the crime bill that railroaded blacks into prison (Harris also strongly supports prison slave labor; ask yourself who is fighting those California fires now[1]). Democrats offer up Biden because Democratic party bosses don't care if they lose. In other words, Trump is doing a sufficiently good job supporting neolib/neocon interests which means that the Democrats can afford to offer someone who is essentially only an insurance plan in case Trump loses an election that is his to lose. Since Biden/Harris offers nothing to the people he is asking to vote for him, he's basically running on not being Donald Trump. In terms of the things that change people's lives (policies), Biden has told his wealthy donors that he plans to carry out the same policies Trump did[2]. The whole "Biden isn't Trump" campaign the Democrats are waging is devoid of any reason to motivate registered voters to vote for US President, the same as what happened in 2016 when the largest bloc of registered voters were those who did not vote for POTUS. Consider rapper Ice Cube's critique of the Democratic Party in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv-FcLJUUkQ > Ice Cube: The way it look, they [the Democrats] don't have a plan. Everybody's, > you know, talking about 'get Trump out, get Trump out, get Trump out' if you vote. > That's gonna happen on the first day. So now what? Trump out, now what? What? What > do we get in the first hundred days? That's what we're trying to figure out. What > do we actually get that they could give us overnight? Like [snaps his fingers] > that they just pulled $3T out their ass and gave it to their friends. That's > American taxpayer money. That's your money that they just gave away, and then > there's half, 42% of black businesses closing. None of that money-- where's our > fucking bailout? [...] Of course you won't find that bailout for any poor people or small businesses. As Democratic Party speaker Nancy Pelosi told CNN's Jake Tapper who asked a comparable question (only once, he knows where his paycheck comes from), "Calm down!" and then promised further 'stimulus' bills ostensibly to help the 99% not long before going on vacation. Those bills have yet to materialize or bear money for most people. [1] Establishment media outlet New York Times in https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/22/us/california-wildfires-prisoners.html tells us "Coronavirus limits California's efforts to fight fires with prison labor" and "Early releases of prisoners to protect them from the virus have depleted the ranks fo an inmate firefighting program that some say should be abolished anyway." and FAIR notes in https://fair.org/home/us-media-cant-think-how-to-fight-fires-without-1-an-hour-prison-labor/ that "US Media Can?t Think How to Fight Fires Without $1-an-Hour Prison Labor" and "The only quote the New York Times (8/22/20) uses from a critic of the inmate firefighting program is a union leader who suggests that prisoners are too scary to be used to fight fires." FAIR continued: > One expert critic they might have consulted is Rasheed Lockheart, a formerly > incarcerated California resident who for the last two years before his release > from San Quentin Prison worked for the San Quentin Fire Department as a lead > engineer on a fire engine, and as the lead on an ambulance crew. Lockheart, who > works with Planting Justice, a group that promotes food justice for people > transitioning from prison, says using incarcerated workers to fight fires isn?t > the problem ? it?s not paying them a decent wage to do so. > > ?I don?t want to abolish the fire camps,? says Lockheart. But, he says, if > prisoners are putting their lives on the line alongside fellow firefighters, ?we > should get equal pay, we shouldn?t be making a dollar an hour ? I mean, there?s > jobs inside the prison that get paid more than they get paid to be out there > risking their lives.? [2] https://www.salon.com/2019/06/19/joe-biden-to-rich-donors-nothing-would-fundamentally-change-if-hes-elected/ are among the establishment media reports covering this. From jbn at forestfield.org Thu Aug 27 01:58:10 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 20:58:10 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] What is the Movement for a People's Convention after? Message-ID: <91c6e1d6-1e19-7869-cfb0-5f0ddd7ce5f0@forestfield.org> I've been seeing https://peoplesconvention.org promoted on Jimmy Dore's show (see attached) and even after reading the material there it's not clear to me what this aims to be. I believe this is the group Nick Brana works with or heads but it's not clear to me what the specific aims are. If they're going to set up a new political party, what does that party stand for? Who is involved and in what role? How do they plan to convince people they'll not end up ceding to the Democrats? Why not work with an extant party? Some of this is a little addressed in https://www.blackagendareport.com/movement-peoples-party-aims-unseat-duopoly-2024 but there's quite a bit of filibustering in this too. For instance, Brana starts talking as if he'll address why he's not working with the Green Party but never says what he found objectionable in the Green Party where Brana thought starting a new party was the correct course of action. Brana claimed that [Bernie Sanders' 'Our Revolution'] at 2m 14s: > polled their membership and by a 72% majority they decided to start a new party > instead of continuing to reform the Democratic Party. Obviously that's so > meaningful because Our Revolution came out of Bernie's campaign in order to > advance the ideas of the political revolution and try to reform the Democratic > Party. The Los Angeles chapter and the central Connecticut chapter and other > chapters would leave the Democratic Party and join us in building a major new > party is a very symbolic turn of events inside progressive movement towards a > major new party. This group's convention will run live on YouTube in numerous places including Jimmy Dore's channel -- https://www.youtube.com/user/TYTComedy/videos -- live on August 30 starting at 3PM Central time (8PM GMT). I was Does anyone have any specific and sourced information on what Brana's effort is promoting? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: peoplesconvention.org ad on Jimmy Dore.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 304067 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Thu Aug 27 02:58:21 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 21:58:21 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] CIA Democrats running for re-election in 2020 Message-ID: <9fa69749-4110-96eb-d913-f13efea87f7b@forestfield.org> From https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/08/20/ciad-a20.html > The bottom line: at least 34 Democratic candidates for the House of > Representatives have a primarily military-intelligence background, up from 30 in > 2018, as well as three of the party?s 35 candidates for the US Senate, compared to > zero in 2018. For each branch of Congress, this represents about 10 percent of the > total. > > As we explained in 2018, the extraordinary influx of candidates coming directly > from the national-security apparatus into the Democratic Party is a two-sided > process: the Democratic Party establishment welcomes such candidates as a > demonstration of the party?s unshakeable devotion to the interests of American > imperialism; and military-intelligence operatives are choosing the Democratic > Party over the Republican Party in large numbers because they are attracted by the > Democrats? non-stop campaign against the Trump administration as too ?soft? on > Russia and too willing to pull out of the Middle East war zone. The article covers who they are and gives something on each of them. The article also includes: > Four of the military-intelligence candidates who lost congressional races in 2018 > are running again in 2020, and are likely to win seats in Congress. with names and information on these candidates as well. This is interesting reading, well worth the time. The candidates include Mary Jennings Hegar who (quoting the article): > MJ Hegar was an Air Force helicopter pilot who spent three tours of duty in > Afghanistan on search and rescue operations, in the course of which she was shot > down once by Taliban fire, wounded, and received a Purple Heart. She came to > prominence through a lawsuit against the Pentagon policy of barring women from > combat. She narrowly lost a 2018 race against Republican Congressman John Carter > in a district outside Austin, Texas, in the course of which her five-minute > campaign video, promoting her military record in a noxious combination of > militarism and feminism, became a viral sensation and raised millions in donations > over the internet. Was there debate at the time over whether the goals of feminism are better met by favoring having a woman pull the trigger to kill people (including girls and women) versus pointing out how feminism is being used to advance a distraction -- equal opportunity to do horrible things is no argument for equal opportunity at all here because the US isn't threatened by Afghans, the US is an occupier in Afghanistan and shouldn't continue the Afghan war? From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 04:29:02 2020 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 23:29:02 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Heightening the contradictions Message-ID: Melinda Gates (@melindagates) Tweeted: If we?ve learned one thing in 2020, it?s that the pace of progress is anything but static. On Women?s Equality Day, we can choose to accept incremental gains for gender and racial equality?or insist on something much better, much sooner. #EqualityCantWait https://t.co/uVDEFifVvk https://twitter.com/melindagates/status/1298636820813615107?s=20 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Sat Aug 29 15:03:02 2020 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 10:03:02 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] FW: [New post] Dem Convention Made No Mention Of Russiagate Or Impeachment, Because They Were Fake In-Reply-To: <139971992.8801.0@wordpress.com> References: <139971992.8801.0@wordpress.com> Message-ID: <002b01d67e15$84bfbea0$8e3f3be0$@comcast.net> Caitlin Johnstone posted: "The only interesting thing about either of the conventions held by America's two mainstream political parties this month was not anything that was said by the interminable parade of vapid speakers, but rather what those speakers did not say. Despite th" New post on Caitlin Johnstone Image removed by sender. Image removed by sender. Dem Convention Made No Mention Of Russiagate Or Impeachment, Because They Were Fake by Caitlin Johnstone The only interesting thing about either of the conventions held by America's two mainstream political parties this month was not anything that was said by the interminable parade of vapid speakers, but rather what those speakers did not say. Despite their dominating mainstream news cycles for years on end, at no time during the four-day Democratic National Convention was the word "impeachment" ever uttered, nor was any mention made of the Mueller investigation into allegations of collusion between Trump and the Russian government. Politico reports: Eight months after Democrats mounted a historic effort to remove Donald Trump from office, not a single speaker uttered the word ?impeachment? during their four-day convention. ... For Democrats to completely omit impeachment from their convention was once unthinkable. Democrats had mounted a case that Trump had abused his power to blackmail Ukraine into investigating his political adversaries, including Biden. And they made an existential argument that without removing him from office, Trump?s behavior would get worse and democracy itself would be at risk. ... Special counsel Robert Mueller?s investigation of the Trump campaign?s ties to Russia ? which Democrats once thought could topple Trump for obstruction of justice ? also went unmentioned, even as it was a defining feature of Trump?s nearly four years in office. At DNC, "the word 'impeachment' [was] entirely left out over the course of the 4-night event. Mueller?s investigation of the Trump campaign?s ties to Russia... also went unmentioned, even as it was a defining feature of Trump?s nearly 4 years in office." Image removed by sender. ?? https://t.co/Dgt9WQ3LeA pic.twitter.com/q8EvEthwZq ? Aaron Mat? (@aaronjmate) August 28, 2020 "The fact that Democrats couldn't bring themselves to even mention Russiagate or Ukrainegate (the first-ever sequel to a flop?) at their convention should maybe hasten some reflection for those who made these issues the 'defining feature of Trump's nearly four years in office,'" quipped incisive Russiagate skeptic Aaron Mat? of the omission on Twitter. "Next on Unsolved Mysteries: Democrats and media allies accused Donald Trump of being a Russian agent for four years," Mat? added. "They chanted 'All Roads Lead to Putin' and 'The Walls Are Closing In.' But at their political convention, they forgot all about it. Did Russia give them amnesia?" "I personally feel like if the President of the US seeking re-election is beholden to and controlled by an adversarial foreign power, the opposition party should find a few seconds to squeeze in a mention of it if, you know, it wasn't utter bullshit," tweeted The Intercept's Glenn Greenwald. And, of course, it was utter bullshit. And that is indeed why the Democrats saw no need to mention it at their own four-day convention despite dominating news cycles with it for years. Russiagate and Ukrainegate were never the cataclysmic scandals that the Democrats and their allied media factions portrayed them as. They weren't even actually about getting rid of Trump. In an extremely strange and confounding development, the Democrats *never once* mentioned what this NYT columnist calls "the biggest lie in American politics" at their Convention. In fairness, they only had 4 full nights so maybe they couldn't squeeze in any mention of it. https://t.co/TMJkoiX199 pic.twitter.com/BvYjH4VZTc ? Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) August 28, 2020 Anyone with an ear to the ground knew that Russiagate would fizzle, and anyone capable of counting Senate seats knew impeachment would fail to remove Trump. The drivers of these attention-monopolizing narratives knew this also. If there'd been any solid evidence to find that the Kremlin was blackmailing Trump, or that his campaign had conspired with the Russian government to steal the 2016 election, the US intelligence community would have found some of it and leaked it to The Washington Post long before Trump took office. The Russiagate narrative has been completely dismantled from the very beginning by journalists like the late Robert Parry, and then Mat? after Parry's death. There was never any real evidence for it, and the people pushing Russiagate from the beginning knew there was never any real evidence for it. All you really need to know about Russiagate was that it was started by unsubstantiated claims by the US intelligence community, and in the end it facilitated pre-existing plans by the US intelligence community. Everything else in between those two points is just empty narrative fluff. In 2017 Parry documented how the original assessment that Russia meddled in the US election in the first place was put forward without proof by just a couple dozen officers from three intelligence agencies hand-picked by the notoriously Russophobic then-Director of National Intelligence James Clapper. Mat? has documented that this allegation remains just as suspicious and porous as the day it was first made. Despite having sweeping investigative powers Mueller indicted not one single American for conspiracy with the Russian government. The recent evidence-free Senate Select Committee on Intelligence report did nothing to change the flimsy nature of the entire Russiagate narrative. Image removed by sender. So the whole thing has been plainly bogus from the beginning, with the foundation laid by secretive and unaccountable intelligence agencies who have an extensive history of lying about exactly this sort of thing. And it just so happens to have paved the way for operations against a longtime geostrategic foe that were being unfolded well before Trump's arrival in the White House. This is an excerpt from an article by legendary Australian journalist John Pilger from March 2016: In the last eighteen months, the greatest build-up of military forces since World War Two -- led by the United States -- is taking place along Russia's western frontier. Not since Hitler invaded the Soviet Union have foreign troops presented such a demonstrable threat to Russia. Ukraine - once part of the Soviet Union - has become a CIA theme park. Having orchestrated a coup in Kiev, Washington effectively controls a regime that is next door and hostile to Russia: a regime rotten with Nazis, literally. Prominent parliamentary figures in Ukraine are the political descendants of the notorious OUN and UPA fascists. They openly praise Hitler and call for the persecution and expulsion of the Russian speaking minority. This is seldom news in the West, or it is inverted to suppress the truth. In Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia -- next door to Russia - the US military is deploying combat troops, tanks, heavy weapons. This extreme provocation of the world's second nuclear power is met with silence in the West. This was all happening during the Obama administration. But he was still more doveish than the spooks and cold warriors who drive US foreign policy would prefer, resisting for example loud calls from the warmongers to arm Ukraine against Moscow and forcibly install a no-fly zone in Russia's ally Syria. The heir apparent to Obama's throne, Hillary Clinton, did not suffer from such peacenik scruples. She'd already been making people on both sides of the aisle nervous with her anti-Russia hawkishness, and supported both arming Ukraine and installing a no-fly zone in Syria. So these escalations were already underway, and more were being prepared for. Then what happened? Somehow a political neophyte who'd been talking about making nice with Russia got in instead. Image removed by sender. We suddenly found ourselves bombarded with narratives from the US intelligence community and its mass media stenographers about Russian election meddling and Trump playing some mysterious role in it. These narratives were pushed with steadily increasing frequency and shrillness, with the help of a humiliated Democratic Party that stood everything to gain by participating, until those of us who expressed any skepticism of them at all were being accused on a daily basis by MSM-brainwashed dupes of running psyops for the Russian government. We were never at any time presented with any proof of these claims which rose anywhere near the level required in a post-Iraq invasion world, but we were hammered with them anyway, day in and day out, year after year. This ended up putting a lot of political pressure on Trump to keep existing sanctions and military tensions with Russia, and he ended up adding dozens more new cold war escalations including further sanctions, shredded nuclear treaties, NATO expansionism and more. He even armed Ukraine due to these pressures, just like the anointed queen was scheduled to do. For years, neocons and arms industry darlings like @RepAdamSchiff have sought to re-arm Ukraine and escalate the conflict in Donbas. By stirring up Russiagate, they finally got their deadly deal. My latest: https://t.co/pyJB4btOSk ? Max Blumenthal (@MaxBlumenthal) January 8, 2018 The cold warriors wanted their escalations, and they got them. From beginning to the end, that's all this was ever about. They pushed the narratives, the media joined in because it was great for ratings, and the Democrats joined in because it took the focus off their 2016 scandals and gave them a kayfabe phantom to punch instead of pushing for actual progressive changes. And now the slow motion third world war between the US-centralized power alliance and the loose collective of unabsorbed governments is right on schedule, with Biden all set and ready to carry the omnicidal torch forward. The 2016 scandals are well enough forgotten, no progressive changes have been made, and there is no need to talk about Russiagate or impeachment at the Democratic National Convention. Because everyone already got what they wanted. Everyone except ordinary people, of course. ____________________ Thanks for reading! The best way to get around the internet censors and make sure you see the stuff I publish is to subscribe to the mailing list for at my website or on Substack, which will get you an email notification for everything I publish. My work is entirely reader-supported, so if you enjoyed this piece please consider sharing it around, liking me on Facebook, following my antics on Twitter, throwing some money into my tip jar on Patreon or Paypal, purchasing some of my sweet merchandise, buying my books Rogue Nation: Psychonautical Adventures With Caitlin Johnstone and Woke: A Field Guide for Utopia Preppers. For more info on who I am, where I stand, and what I?m trying to do with this platform, click here. Everyone, racist platforms excluded, has my permission to republish, use or translate any part of this work (or anything else I?ve written) in any way they like free of charge. Image removed by sender. Bitcoin donations:1Ac7PCQXoQoLA9Sh8fhAgiU3PHA2EX5Zm2 Caitlin Johnstone | August 29, 2020 at 2:54 am | Tags: #Trump, convention, democrats, DNC, impeachment, Mueller, Russia, Russiagate | Categories: Article, News | URL: https://wp.me/p9tj6M-2hX Comment See all comments Unsubscribe to no longer receive posts from Caitlin Johnstone. Change your email settings at Manage Subscriptions. Trouble clicking? Copy and paste this URL into your browser: https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2020/08/29/dem-convention-made-no-mention-of-russiagate-or-impeachment-because-they-were-fake/ Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ~WRD000.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: not available URL: From moboct1 at aim.com Sat Aug 29 22:33:49 2020 From: moboct1 at aim.com (Mildred O'brien) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 22:33:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Thankds for posting this, Dave Dem Convention Made No Mention Of Russiagate Or Impeachment, Because They Were Fake In-Reply-To: <002b01d67e15$84bfbea0$8e3f3be0$@comcast.net> References: <139971992.8801.0@wordpress.com> <002b01d67e15$84bfbea0$8e3f3be0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1846826086.238081.1598740429487@mail.yahoo.com> T -----Original Message----- From: David Johnson via Peace-discuss To: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net Sent: Sat, Aug 29, 2020 8:03 am Subject: [Peace-discuss] FW: [New post] Dem Convention Made No Mention Of Russiagate Or Impeachment, Because They Were Fake WordPress.com ? ? ? | Caitlin Johnstone posted: "The only interesting thing about either of the conventions held by America's two mainstream political parties this month was not anything that was said by the interminable parade of vapid speakers, but rather what those speakers did not say. Despite th" | | | | ? | New post on Caitlin Johnstone | | ? | | | | Dem Convention Made No Mention Of Russiagate Or Impeachment, Because They Were?Fake by Caitlin Johnstone | The only interesting thing about either of the conventions held by America's two mainstream political parties this month was not anything that was said by the interminable parade of vapid speakers, but rather what those speakers did not say. Despite their dominating mainstream news cycles for years on end, at no time during the four-day Democratic National Convention was the word "impeachment" ever uttered, nor was any mention made of the Mueller investigation into allegations of collusion between Trump and the Russian government. Politico reports: Eight months after Democrats mounted a historic effort to remove Donald Trump from office, not a single speaker uttered the word ?impeachment? during their four-day convention. ... For Democrats to completely omit impeachment from their convention was once unthinkable. Democrats had mounted a case that Trump had abused his power to blackmail Ukraine into investigating his political adversaries, including Biden. And they made an existential argument that without removing him from office, Trump?s behavior would get worse and democracy itself would be at risk. ... Special counsel Robert Mueller?s investigation of the Trump campaign?s ties to Russia ? which Democrats once thought could topple Trump for obstruction of justice ? also went unmentioned, even as it was a defining feature of Trump?s nearly four years in office. At DNC, "the word 'impeachment' [was] entirely left out over the course of the 4-night event. Mueller?s investigation of the Trump campaign?s ties to Russia... also went unmentioned, even as it was a defining feature of Trump?s nearly 4 years in office." https://t.co/Dgt9WQ3LeA pic.twitter.com/q8EvEthwZq ? Aaron Mat? (@aaronjmate) August 28, 2020 "The fact that Democrats couldn't bring themselves to even mention Russiagate or Ukrainegate (the first-ever sequel to a flop?) at their convention should maybe hasten some reflection for those who made these issues the 'defining feature of Trump's nearly four years in office,'" quipped incisive Russiagate skeptic Aaron Mat? of the omission on Twitter. "Next on Unsolved Mysteries: Democrats and media allies accused Donald Trump of being a Russian agent for four years," Mat? added. "They chanted 'All Roads Lead to Putin' and 'The Walls Are Closing In.' But at their political convention, they forgot all about it. Did Russia give them amnesia?" "I personally feel like if the President of the US seeking re-election is beholden to and controlled by an adversarial foreign power, the opposition party should find a few seconds to squeeze in a mention of it if, you know, it wasn't utter bullshit," tweeted The Intercept's Glenn Greenwald. And, of course, it was utter bullshit. And that is indeed why the Democrats saw no need to mention it at their own four-day convention despite dominating news cycles with it for years. Russiagate and Ukrainegate were never the cataclysmic scandals that the Democrats and their allied media factions portrayed them as. They weren't even actually about getting rid of Trump. In an extremely strange and confounding development, the Democrats *never once* mentioned what this NYT columnist calls "the biggest lie in American politics" at their Convention. In fairness, they only had 4 full nights so maybe they couldn't squeeze in any mention of it. https://t.co/TMJkoiX199 pic.twitter.com/BvYjH4VZTc ? Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) August 28, 2020 Anyone with an ear to the ground knew that Russiagate would fizzle, and anyone capable of counting Senate seats knew impeachment would fail to remove Trump. The drivers of these attention-monopolizing narratives knew this also. If there'd been any solid evidence to find that the Kremlin was blackmailing Trump, or that his campaign had conspired with the Russian government to steal the 2016 election, the US intelligence community would have found some of it and leaked it to The Washington Post long before Trump took office. The Russiagate narrative has been completely dismantled from the very beginning by journalists like the late Robert Parry, and then?Mat? after Parry's death. There was never any real evidence for it, and the people pushing Russiagate from the beginning knew there was never any real evidence for it. All you really need to know about Russiagate was that it was started by unsubstantiated claims by the US intelligence community, and in the end it facilitated pre-existing plans by the US intelligence community. Everything else in between those two points is just empty narrative fluff. In 2017 Parry documented how the original assessment that Russia meddled in the US election in the first place was put forward without proof by just a couple dozen officers from three intelligence agencies hand-picked by the notoriously Russophobic then-Director of National Intelligence James Clapper.?Mat? has documented that this allegation remains just as suspicious and porous as the day it was first made. Despite having sweeping investigative powers Mueller indicted not one single American for conspiracy with the Russian government. The recent evidence-free Senate Select Committee on Intelligence report did nothing to change?the flimsy nature of the entire Russiagate narrative. So the whole thing has been plainly bogus from the beginning, with the foundation laid by secretive and unaccountable intelligence agencies who have an extensive history of lying about exactly this sort of thing. And it just so happens to have paved the way for operations against a longtime geostrategic foe that were being unfolded well before Trump's arrival in the White House. This is an excerpt from an article by legendary Australian journalist John Pilger from March 2016: In the last eighteen months, the greatest build-up of military forces since World War Two -- led by the United States -- is taking place along Russia's western frontier. ?Not since Hitler invaded the Soviet Union have foreign troops presented such a demonstrable threat to Russia. ? Ukraine - once part of the Soviet Union - ?has become a CIA theme park. Having orchestrated a coup in Kiev, Washington effectively controls a regime that is next door and hostile to Russia: a regime rotten with Nazis, literally. Prominent parliamentary figures in Ukraine are the political descendants of the notorious OUN and UPA fascists. They openly praise Hitler and call for the persecution and expulsion of the Russian speaking minority. ? This is seldom news in the West, or it is inverted to suppress the truth. ? In Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia -- next door to Russia - the US military is deploying combat troops, tanks, heavy weapons. This extreme provocation of the world's second nuclear power is met with silence in the West. This was all happening during the Obama administration. But he was still more doveish than the spooks and cold warriors who drive US foreign policy would prefer, resisting for example loud calls from the warmongers to arm Ukraine?against Moscow and forcibly install a no-fly zone in Russia's ally Syria. The heir apparent to Obama's throne, Hillary Clinton, did not suffer from such peacenik scruples. She'd already been making people on both sides of the aisle nervous with her anti-Russia hawkishness, and supported both arming Ukraine and installing a no-fly zone in Syria. So these escalations were already underway, and more were being prepared for. Then what happened? Somehow a political neophyte who'd been talking about making nice with Russia got in instead. We suddenly found ourselves bombarded with narratives from the US intelligence community and its mass media stenographers about Russian election meddling and Trump playing some mysterious role in it. These narratives were pushed with steadily increasing frequency and shrillness, with the help of a humiliated Democratic Party that stood everything to gain by participating, until those of us who expressed any skepticism of them at all were being accused on a daily basis by MSM-brainwashed dupes of running psyops for the Russian government. We were never at any time presented with any proof of these claims which rose anywhere near the level required in a post-Iraq invasion world, but we were hammered with them anyway, day in and day out, year after year. This ended up putting a lot of political pressure on Trump to keep existing sanctions and military tensions with Russia, and he ended up adding dozens more?new cold war escalations including further sanctions, shredded nuclear treaties, NATO expansionism and more. He even armed Ukraine?due to these pressures, just like the anointed queen was scheduled to do. For years, neocons and arms industry darlings like @RepAdamSchiff have sought to re-arm Ukraine and escalate the conflict in Donbas. By stirring up Russiagate, they finally got their deadly deal. My latest: https://t.co/pyJB4btOSk ? Max Blumenthal (@MaxBlumenthal) January 8, 2018 The cold warriors wanted their escalations, and they got them. From beginning to the end, that's all this was ever about. They pushed the narratives, the media joined in because it was great for ratings, and the Democrats joined in because it took the focus off their 2016 scandals and gave them a kayfabe phantom to punch instead of pushing for actual progressive changes. And now the slow motion third world war between the US-centralized power alliance and the loose collective of unabsorbed governments is right on schedule, with Biden all set and ready to carry the omnicidal torch forward. The 2016 scandals are well enough forgotten, no progressive changes have been made, and there is no need to talk about Russiagate or impeachment at the Democratic National Convention. Because everyone already got what they wanted. Everyone except ordinary people, of course. ____________________ Thanks for reading! The best way to get around the internet censors and make sure you see the stuff I publish is to subscribe to the mailing list for at?my website?or?on Substack, which will get you an email notification for everything I publish. My work is?entirely reader-supported, so if you enjoyed this piece please consider sharing it around, liking me on?Facebook, following my antics on?Twitter,?throwing some money into my tip jar on?Patreon?or?Paypal, purchasing some of my?sweet merchandise, buying my books?Rogue Nation: Psychonautical Adventures With Caitlin Johnstone?and?Woke: A Field Guide for Utopia Preppers. For more info on who I am, where I stand, and what I?m trying to do with this platform,?click here. Everyone, racist platforms excluded,?has my permission?to republish, use or translate any part of this work (or anything else I?ve written) in any way they like free of charge. Bitcoin donations:1Ac7PCQXoQoLA9Sh8fhAgiU3PHA2EX5Zm2 Caitlin Johnstone | August 29, 2020 at 2:54 am | Tags: #Trump, convention, democrats, DNC, impeachment, Mueller, Russia, Russiagate | Categories: Article, News | URL: https://wp.me/p9tj6M-2hX | Comment | ???See all comments | | | ? | Unsubscribe to no longer receive posts from Caitlin Johnstone. Change your email settings at Manage Subscriptions. Trouble clicking? Copy and paste this URL into your browser: https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2020/08/29/dem-convention-made-no-mention-of-russiagate-or-impeachment-because-they-were-fake/ | | ? | | | | _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Nicholson) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2020 14:54:22 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The Movement for a People's Convention live -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6u5xPJaW2s In-Reply-To: <91c6e1d6-1e19-7869-cfb0-5f0ddd7ce5f0@forestfield.org> References: <91c6e1d6-1e19-7869-cfb0-5f0ddd7ce5f0@forestfield.org> Message-ID: <36e46a60-4cba-250e-1e35-ad2714fe8369@forestfield.org> I wrote: > This group's convention will run live on YouTube in numerous places including Jimmy > Dore's channel -- https://www.youtube.com/user/TYTComedy/videos -- live on August 30 > starting at 3PM Central time (8PM GMT). I was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6u5xPJaW2s is the URL for the live feed starting at 3PM Central (a few minutes from the time/date stamp on this email). From kmedina67 at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 20:40:57 2020 From: kmedina67 at gmail.com (kmedina67) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 15:40:57 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Actions that can be taken: Tomorrow is the first of the month and millions of tenants are at risk of losing their homes in the middle of a global pandemic In-Reply-To: <20200831150701.21369214.836295@sailthru.com> Message-ID: <5f4d605a.1c69fb81.92a1a.54c6@mx.google.com> Tomorrow is the first of the month and millions of tenants are at risk of losing their homes in the middle of a global pandemic ? unless...I am forwarding the following, which is from the ACLU, not because I want all on the peace list to join the ACLU, but because I know this group is not all politically left.?The one thing we can agree upon is that having people experience poverty costs the community more if dealing with it is kicked down the road of time:* people evicted are very likely to end up homeless,?* homelessness takes more money to get out of than just money because it also creates trauma in the lives.?* There are not enough homeless shelters in our town let alone all towns across the US.?* homeless people will be arrested for minor crimes (like being parked overnight in a no parking zone).?* Incarcerating people costs a lot more money than paying their rent.?The actions the ACLU are proposing are worth considering joining, even if you are fiscally conservative.?I send this to "peace" as it is a list of actions.I send this to "peace- discuss" as a discussion opportunity.Sincerely,Karen Medina -------- Original message --------From: ACLU Date: 8/31/20 14:07 (GMT-06:00) To: kmedina67 at gmail.com Subject: Rent is due tomorrow Here's what can be done immediately. ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Karen ? Tomorrow is the first of the month and millions of tenants are at risk of losing their homes in the middle of a global pandemic ? unless we act. Congress will be back in session in one week, so here's what can be done immediately: Send a message to your senators and representative now and urge them to include at least $100 billion in funding toward emergency rental assistance in the next COVID-19 relief bill ? and extend and expand the already-expired federal eviction moratorium. Kansas City resident Tiana Caldwell knows exactly how critical this situation is. She and her husband Derrick lost their jobs as COVID-19 hit. It was only because of a local moratorium that they were able to keep a roof above their heads. Since that expired, both they and her son could now be unhoused in a pandemic. A risk made far greater by the fact Tiana is a cancer survivor and immunocompromised. Karen, this is one story out of far too many. Nationally, it is estimated that 30 to 40 million people could be at risk of eviction in the next several months, according to the Aspen Institute. Communities of color and low-income women are amongst the most vulnerable due to a number of reasons, including staggering pay disparities, wealth gaps, and racial discrimination. And because of these historical inequalities and racism, Black women have evictions filed against them at double the rate of white renters or higher in 17 out of 36 states. But Congress has the power to prevent this coming wave of mass evictions ? and help minimize the racial and economic inequities that are being exacerbated by this pandemic. Let's make sure Congress gives us the rental relief we need. Send a message to your senators and representative now. Thank you for taking action, Causten Rodriguez-Wollerman Deputy Director of Equality Division Campaign, ACLU Donate Now ? ? ? ? This email was sent to: kmedina67 at gmail.com Sign up for ACLU texts | Unsubscribe Please note: If you forward or distribute, the links will open a page with your information filled in. We respect your right to privacy ? view our policy. This email was sent by: American Civil Liberties Union 125 Broad Street, 18th Floor New York, NY 10004, USA @media print { #_t { background-image: url("https://51g11e9p.emltrk.com/51g11e9p?p&d=a3o360000058ocHAAQ&t=21369214"); } } div.OutlookMessageHeader { background-image: url("https://51g11e9p.emltrk.com/51g11e9p?f&d=a3o360000058ocHAAQ&t=21369214"); } table.moz-email-headers-table { background-image: url("https://51g11e9p.emltrk.com/51g11e9p?f&d=a3o360000058ocHAAQ&t=21369214"); } blockquote #_t { background-image: url("https://51g11e9p.emltrk.com/51g11e9p?f&d=a3o360000058ocHAAQ&t=21369214"); } #MailContainerBody #_t { background-image: url("https://51g11e9p.emltrk.com/51g11e9p?f&d=a3o360000058ocHAAQ&t=21369214"); } -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Mon Aug 31 23:57:32 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 18:57:32 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Mark Blyth interview on Jimmy Dore (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX8Wdho2UYw) Message-ID: <9ba1e767-afab-74e9-a5f0-705ae96ad48b@forestfield.org> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX8Wdho2UYw -- (24m 10s) Jimmy Dore interview with Mark Blyth, co-author of the new book "ANGRY-nomics". In this interview Blyth proposes some ways out of the financial problems most people face now (if only there were any political will to implement them, Blyth says). It's an interesting interview, worth considering. -J