[Peace-discuss] Chomsky on the great danger of Trump

Sat Aug 1 20:38:26 UTC 2020

Mort, I have no problem with Chomsky's appropriate alarmism. I do have a
problem with his implying that Biden will in any serious way challenge the
institutional forces that are leading us to the abyss. Nevertheless, Biden
has been a centrist, consensus political creature for his entire career,
which for the past 30 years has meant neoliberalism and neoconservatism. He
may have the political survival instincts (in spite of basically having a
lame duck, one-term presidency) to behave in a "politically rational" way
regarding imminent threats perceived by the majority of the population.
However, he will be beholden to economic elites (don't forget, the
Democrats in the House represent 41 of the 50 most wealthy districts in the
country) who will not easily shift from an emphasis on the short-terms
goals of the financial class.

DG

DG

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 3:23 PM Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu>
wrote:

> I’ll take Chomsky’s words and analysis, his warnings about threats to
> human existence. far more seriously then the chipping away of Nicholson and
> Green, who seems not to appreciate the truly dire threats brought forward
> by the present conjuncture. One can admit the desperate political situation
> in the U.S., not only, but foremost, Trump and his followers, but also of
> its Democratic party opposition. I think there is perversity in not
> recognizing what Chomsky emphasizes as current existential threats,
> criticizing issues important for many but not having the gravity of
> Chomsky’s views.
>
> Would a Biden election be any better than what now exists? I think the
> answer is *yes*, as much as I detest Biden and company on so many
> “issues/details”.
> All this carping sickens sickens me. Valid points struck, perhaps, but
> beside the point.
>
> —mkb
>
>
> On Jul 30, 2020, at 8:18 AM, David Green via Peace-discuss <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>
> Yes, I think that what Jeff says is fundamentally correct.
>
> DG
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 1:34 AM J.B. Nicholson via Peace-discuss <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>
>> C. G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote:
>> > See the second and third parts of this interview (linked at end):
>> >
>> > https://www.democracynow.org/2020/7/24/noam_chomsky_on_trump_s_troop
>>
>> I'm afraid I don't agree with Chomsky in much of this interview because
>> large
>> portions of it came off to me as leaving out significant context and
>> participating in
>> Trump Derangement Syndrome. Yes, Trump is awful, but the Democrats offer
>> nobody
>> better because they're okay with Trump and Biden is merely a useful
>> neolib/neocon
>> insurance policy. Chomsky was said to have shown "massive differences"
>> between Trump
>> and Biden but as far as policy goes the two major corporate parties (and
>> Trump &
>> Biden in particular) share so much in common that it seems
>> unrepresentative to get
>> into what separates them as though there's enough to make a big deal out
>> of that.
>> When I take into consideration what is likely to be on most Americans
>> minds during a
>> depression and a pandemic with an upcoming election ahead, I can't concur
>> with so
>> much of what Chomsky or DN's Nermeen Shaikh got into here.
>>
>> Domestically, neither supports a UBI, jobs program, or Medicare for All
>> (in fact, as
>> Jimmy Dore pointed out in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv21BLO-JwI
>> and as I've
>> written to peace-discuss previously, it wouldn't be hard for Trump to
>> shame the
>> Democrats by even offering to pass Medicare for All into law knowing the
>> Democrats
>> will never bring such a bill to the House floor for a vote. Pelosi will
>> see to
>> that.). Medicare for All alone is an election winner and is massively
>> important to
>> Americans now. Medicare for All will only become more important as the
>> coming weeks
>> pass: evictions, more people losing their jobs, and the loss of whatever
>> healthcare
>> was tied to that job. Medicare for All didn't show up as a talking point
>> in any of
>> the three parts of this Chomsky interview linked from
>> https://www.democracynow.org/2020/7/24/noam_chomsky_on_trump_s_troop and
>> that's
>> probably because there's nothing a Democratic Party supporter could say
>> about
>> Medicare for All that would make the Democrats look good. I dare say that
>> Medicare
>> for All for Americans is more important than traveling to Europe (a topic
>> Chomsky
>> does reference).
>>
>> The interview spends a fair bit of time on speculation around imposing
>> martial law
>> and canceling the elections (perhaps so they don't have to talk about far
>> more
>> pressing issues where no speculation is necessary like the lack of
>> Medicare for All,
>> lack of a national jobs program, and no UBI and that this tells us the
>> Democrats are
>> fine with Trump). It's worth noting that in 2016 the largest bloc of
>> registered
>> voters did not vote for president. So if 2020 repeats what happened in
>> 2016 the
>> largest bloc of registered voters might not miss a chance to participate
>> in a
>> presidential election they would have skipped due to loathing the two
>> most prominent
>> candidates and their horrid policy choices.
>>
>> We also get a bit of psychoanalysis -- the kind of talk we'd rightly
>> reject coming
>> from anyone else (and it's not clear why we should hold Chomsky to
>> different
>> standards) -- Chomsky said Trump is "desperate", "psychotic. He is in
>> extreme danger
>> of losing his position in the White House", and "psychologically
>> incapable of
>> losing". But there's no acknowledgement that establishment pollsters got
>> the 2016
>> election wrong (and there's no price to pay for being so wrong). Hillary
>> Clinton lost
>> her 2nd attempt at becoming US President to a TV game show host who had
>> no electoral
>> history. To shift the blame she backed a now 4-year-long baseless
>> conspiracy theory
>> (which DN is apparently happy to echo) blaming Russia for her loss known
>> colloquially
>> as Russiagate. But somehow Trump's speculated "[refusal] to commit to
>> accepting the
>> outcome of the 2020 election" is supposed to be troubling. Would that
>> refusal come
>> with sanctions against Russia like Russiagate has? Sanctions hurt and
>> kill the poor.
>> One would think those sanctions and the harms they cause would merit
>> mention.
>>
>> I'm suspicious that the main reason DN wants to interview Chomsky on this
>> topic now
>> is because Chomsky is saying things that are compatible with DN's
>> neoliberalist Trump
>> Derangement Syndrome. Around election time Chomsky seems to favor the
>> Democrats
>> (witness this interview and the letter Chomsky signed on to not too long
>> ago which
>> reached a conclusion much like 'any Blue will do').
>>
>> In another part of the same overall interview --
>> https://www.democracynow.org/2020/7/24/man_woman_camera_person_tv_noam
>> -- which DN
>> titled "Noam Chomsky Responds to Trump Bragging He Aced a Dementia Test"
>> -- nobody
>> brought up Biden's readily-apparent mental problems (which the
>> establishment media
>> try to paper over by calling them "gaffes"). And his team knows it; Obama
>> "bluntly
>> counseled Mr. Biden to keep his speeches brief, interviews crisp and
>> slash the length
>> of his tweets" so as to not give Biden more opportunity to showcase his
>> obvious
>> mental inadequacy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmoln-XK3Gw).
>> Recently a Biden
>> staffer cut off Biden's interview with docile media outlet before Biden
>> could go
>> off-script too much further (https://youtube.com/watch?v=SaX1i4EeQRI).
>>
>> So I fail to see how Trump is dangerous enough to merit the single-minded
>> mentions he
>> gets in that DN interview; it would be far more useful to the audience to
>> point out
>> that Trump is all too typical a US President which means he's merely the
>> latest
>> leader of a line of rapacious oligarchs (quoting Dylan Ratigan). We got
>> Trump because
>> of what the Obama/Biden administration did. The country rejected Mrs.
>> Clinton in part
>> because of what we'd already seen her do as a Senator (which includes
>> voting for
>> authorizing invading Iraq alongside Sen. Biden who would later go on to
>> brag that
>> he'd make the same vote again, then when realizing that line is reading
>> the room
>> wholly wrongly, lie about the reason for his authorization vote).
>>
>> The Democrats currently give Trump what he asks for while calling Trump a
>> traitor to
>> the US. The Democrats & Republicans work together against our needs. The
>> Democrats
>> are not an opposition party. It's shameful to point out only one part of
>> the trouble
>> we're in with the Democrats and Republicans without the context that the
>> other major
>> corporate party agrees on all the major issues of the day.
>>
>> Joe Biden promised his wealthy campaign investors that "Nothing will
>> fundamentally
>> change". In that same speech he waxed fondly about "memories of working
>> alongside
>> segregationist senators, and telling wealthy donors they have nothing to
>> fear from
>> his presidency" according to establishment media outlet Vox, which
>> continued:
>>
>>
>> https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/19/18690910/biden-fundraiser-controversy-segregationists-donors
>> > [Biden] didn’t want to “demonize” the wealthy and added that, though
>> “income
>> > inequality” is a problem that must be addressed, under his presidency,
>> “no one’s
>> > standard of living will change, nothing will fundamentally change.” He
>> went on: “I
>> > need you very badly. I hope if I win this nomination, I won’t let you
>> down.”
>> Biden should be taken at his word. That's a bad promise for anyone trying
>> to pitch
>> the idea that Trump is "desperate" and "psychotic" in an effort to only
>> talk about a
>> part of the story (particularly problematic in the context of a
>> presidential election).
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