[Peace-discuss] [Peace] Adolph Reed says:

Fri Jul 31 02:41:12 UTC 2020

BLM is bad faith from the get-go, the Sanders fiasco. But that's just the
tip of the iceberg.

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 9:21 PM Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com> wrote:

> You're throwing a lot of stuff together there. "BLM" got "under your
> skin," as it were, that much is clear. You cited Adolph Reed dishonestly
> out of context; let's put that act of bad faith to the side. Take your
> grievances against "BLM" one by one. Be honest about what's bothering you.
> Leave Adolph Reed out of it.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 9:17 PM David Green <davidgreen50 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> If you look up Michael Tracey's article on Medium about the destruction
>> during and subsequent to "peaceful" protests, you'll see why I oppose BLM
>> in concrete terms. People have died needlessly whose lives were no less
>> valuable than George Floyd. Beyond that, BLM is a bourgeois/PMC movement
>> with no serious class agenda. Indeed it's anti-working class. Moreover, the
>> blatant hypocrisy of gatherings during a pandemic for BLM, vs. harsh
>> criticism of those violating stay-at-home orders for the wrong reasons,
>> Woke self-righteousness gone mad. BLM will end badly and accomplish
>> nothing, except make some rich and others destitute. Having followed the
>> 1619 Project closely, I'm no longer surprised by the monumental arrogance
>> of the current crop of race hustlers. They are all right out of the
>> Obama/Oprah playbook. Opportunists. Collective self-pity by some
>> hyper-priveleged people, acting as if nothing has changed since 1950. And
>> plenty of what can justifiably be called racism.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 7:33 PM Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Just my 2¢ impressions:
>>>
>>> The BLM “movement", which arouses such fervent antagonism by David, has
>>> had worthy manifestations throughout the country, and elsewhere. I have not
>>> seen the evidence that they were financed/supported by Soros and/or
>>> specific groups. There were all kinds of participants in the protests,
>>> aroused by the killing of George Floyd. David seems to relegate the
>>> protests to a false issue; i.e., by ignoring willfully  the crucial class
>>> and revolutionary issues. It’s as if the mass protests were bad, i.e.,
>>> counterproductive. But they did reveal the pernicious actions of the
>>> present system and the Trump government, viz Portland. As Karen noted:* …Many
>>> of the people protesting BLM are not part of or members of [a] BLM
>>> organization, they are simply people opposing racism against African
>>> Americans.…*
>>>
>>> From Adolph Reed, 2018? in his conclusion: … *that we recognize that
>>> race-reductionist politics is the left wing of neoliberalism and nothing
>>> more. It is openly antagonistic to the idea of a solidaristic left.*
>>>
>>> *"Race-reductionist politics" *is simply a epithet: To whom are race
>>> issues reductionist to the exclusion of all else? Is it just that they
>>> are over emphasized by all who feel race issues merit emphasis and
>>> discussion?
>>>
>>> Let’s not go overboard.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 30, 2020, at 3:11 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss <
>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bob, I honestly don't think he'd change his general analysis in any
>>> significant way in response to the current situation. He's done lots of
>>> interviews that testify to that in recent weeks, see Jacobin Youtube
>>> channel. Nonsite republished an article of Reed's from 2016
>>> <https://nonsite.org/editorial/how-racial-disparity-does-not-help-make-sense-of-patterns-of-police-violence-2>,
>>> with a new introduction by his co-conspirator Cedric Johnson.
>>> <https://nonsite.org/editorial/the-triumph-of-black-lives-matter-and-neoliberal-redemption>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:01 AM Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is a misleading citation of Adolph Reed. He wrote these words in
>>>> May 2018.
>>>>
>>>> https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10624-017-9476-3
>>>> <https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10624-017-9476-3>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 6:13 PM David Green via Peace-discuss <
>>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Neoliberal anarchism. You can read it on their website. Masquerading
>>>>> as "community".
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020, 5:09 PM Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I know, I understand. What is their stated view on the family?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 27, 2020, at 15:01, David Green <davidgreen50 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reed speaks to a broad audience, admittedly intellectual, but like
>>>>>> Chomsky also to labor leaders.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In any event, I'm cutting BLM no slack. It's analysis is
>>>>>> preposterous, with no material component whatsoever. It's stated view on
>>>>>> the family is disgusting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020, 3:42 PM Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I understand what you and Adolph Reed are saying, and it should be
>>>>>>> noted, Adolphe Reed is African American and likely targets African
>>>>>>> Americans when speaking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me now express my simple interpretation and opinion:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While we may not support the organization BLM given we know they are
>>>>>>> funded by the DNC and Soros as they support neoliberalism, and their
>>>>>>> criticism of Bernie for his stand on decommodification of education, etc.
>>>>>>> was counterproductive to helping African Americans, as well as working
>>>>>>> class white Americans, nonetheless I don’t propose opposing them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Many of the people protesting BLM are not part of or members of the
>>>>>>> BLM organization, they are simply people opposing racism against African
>>>>>>> Americans, nothing wrong with that. Yes, when it first began those of us
>>>>>>> opposing our many wars in the Middle East, and the massacre of millions of
>>>>>>> Muslims, cried out “all lives matter,” meaning “what about the millions we
>>>>>>> are killing now elsewhere in the world who are also not white?”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Today by saying “Black Lives Matter,” it is now inclusive of
>>>>>>> indigenous peoples everywhere, as opposed to just white lives mattering.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are absolutely correct the many problems are a class issue, not
>>>>>>> a race issue, and by making it just about race, not to negate African
>>>>>>> Americans have been targeted and suffer worse due to conditions of poverty
>>>>>>> and racist policy’s,  continues to create division between the masses and
>>>>>>> becomes counterproductive as it ignores the cause, thus preventing
>>>>>>> solutions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Promoting people of color to positions of power initially was
>>>>>>> thought to be progressive, and it was as it provided opportunity to many,
>>>>>>> but not enough, certainly not all, and it supports the power of the ruling
>>>>>>> class providing them with tokens of diversity, as we know, power and money
>>>>>>> corrupts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One would think the Obama presidency with his failure to address the
>>>>>>> ills of African Americans, and working class, his expansion of the Bush
>>>>>>> wars from two to eight, bail out of the banks and wall street, as well as
>>>>>>> the implementation of the NDAA which now legitimizes the Trump
>>>>>>> administration bringing federal troops into cities across the nation to
>>>>>>> kidnap, incarcerate or just terrorize protestors, would make it clear
>>>>>>> neither Party has concern for the lives of working class Americans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The lives of the majority of working class Americans, whatever their
>>>>>>> race, continue to deteriorate as we fight among ourselves. Therefore we
>>>>>>> must keep our focus at all times on our system of capitalism as the culprit
>>>>>>> in need of change.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 26, 2020, at 19:58, David Green via Peace <
>>>>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Police violence correlates more with class than race. BLM is in
>>>>>>> support of Democrats, who are equally if not more responsible for
>>>>>>> neoliberalism and accompanying state violence. Trump is used to justify BLM
>>>>>>> supported destruction in working class urban communities. We should oppose
>>>>>>> Trump and BLM.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 9:52 PM John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 9:40 PM David Green <davidgreen50 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Corporate and foundation funded anti-racism, including BLM, is a
>>>>>>>>> bourgeois neoliberal project of the professional-managetial class,
>>>>>>>>> including POC. It is fundamentally antagonistic to the working class. Thus,
>>>>>>>>> we should oppose BLM, which I do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ah.  So boiled down to its essence and attempting to put matters
>>>>>>>> into plain English, demanding that the police treat Black people the same
>>>>>>>> way they treat white people, and quit murdering unarmed Black people
>>>>>>>> wantonly, is somehow antagonistic to the working class?  Asking for a
>>>>>>>> friend, if I had one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 9:32 PM John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I didn't understand a single sentence of that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 5:10 PM David Green via Peace <
>>>>>>>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> “Notwithstanding its performative evocations of the 1960s Black
>>>>>>>>>>> Power populist militancy, this antiracist politics is neither leftist in
>>>>>>>>>>> itself nor particularly compatible with a left politics as conventionally
>>>>>>>>>>> understood. At this political juncture, it is, like bourgeois feminism and
>>>>>>>>>>> other groupist tendencies, an oppositional epicycle within hegemonic
>>>>>>>>>>> neoliberalism, one might say a component of neoliberalism’s critical
>>>>>>>>>>> self-consciousness; it is thus in fact fundamentally
>>>>>>>>>>> *anti-leftist.* Black political elites’ attacks on the Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders 2016 presidential nomination campaign’s call for decommodified
>>>>>>>>>>> public higher education as frivolous, irresponsible, or even un-American
>>>>>>>>>>> underscores how deeply embedded this politics is within neoliberalism.”
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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