From karenaram at hotmail.com Thu Jul 1 01:49:18 2021 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 20:49:18 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Syrian bombing courtesy of Pres. Biden In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: J.B. Good choices. I?m assuming you provide all to Jason for potential filming on UPTV? Clearly not all are possible, but gotta try. > On Jun 30, 2021, at 8:19 PM, J.B. Nicholson via Peace wrote: > > Jimmy Dore in https://twitter.com/jimmy_dore/status/1409613911494590469 >> America is terrorizing & bombing the middle east again. We?re the terrorists. >> We?re the Imperialists. We?re the blood thirsty murdering psychopaths. We?re the >> Bad guys. This is without Trump. Congrats! > > Aaron Mat? in https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1409685549200203784 >> The fact that the US just bombed Syria & US troops are occupying it (along with >> imposing murderous sanctions) should underscore that it's derelict for left media to avoid it -- & avoid speaking out when those who do cover it are slandered for challenging the establishment line. > > Glenn Greenwald in https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1409843754698166277 >> Two days ago, "Biden ordered" illegal bombing raids on Syria and Iraq and none of the people who spent the Trump years pretending to care so deeply about the >> Constitution and rule of law uttered a peep, because they themselves are lawless >> frauds who worse a costume for 4 years. > > There are other related followups regarding the Syrian attack coverup. The OPCW whistleblowers continue to get no establishment media coverage (including Democracy Now and The Intercept which don't cover the ongoing OPCW corruption and cover-up). If you want to know what's going on in that story you have very few news sources to choose from, most notably Izzy award-winning Russiagate debunker Aaron Mat? of The Grayzone -- https://thegrayzone.com/tag/opcw-whistleblowers/ -- and the Jimmy Dore show (including Mat?'s appearances) on YouTube -- https://youtube.com/channel/UC3M7l8ved_rYQ45AVzS0RGA. > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace From karenaram at hotmail.com Thu Jul 1 01:50:52 2021 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 20:50:52 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Message from Ajamu Baraka References: Message-ID: > Subject: Message from Ajamu Baraka > > Ajamu Baraka > > 3h ? > > Hood Communist > 3h ? > ?Given the catastrophic effects of the U.S.-NATO intervention in Libya, the Black Alliance for Peace?s U.S. Out of Africa Network and BAP member organization Horn of Africa Pan-Africans for Liberation & Solidarity (HOA PALS), condemn, under no uncertain terms, any and all forms of intervention and meddling in the conflict in Ethiopia. As it did against Libya, U.S. imperialism is weaponizing disinformation and misinformation to exploit and distort the complexity, historical context and political realities in the Horn of Africa to create the pretext for more direct intervention. > ?Should those responsible for undermining a resolution of the crisis in Tigray fail to reverse course, they should anticipate further actions from the United States and the international community. We call on other governments to join us in taking these actions.? > ?U.S. Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, May 23, 2021 press statement > The attack on the federal base by the Tigray People?s Liberation Front (TPLF) that started the conflict is now being used as a de-facto instrument of U.S. policy in Ethiopia to justify ?humanitarian intervention.? In this way, the primary contradiction in the Tigray region reflects broader dynamics in the Horn of Africa as a whole and can be boiled down to the common denominators of global capitalist hegemony and Western imperialism by way of its proxy actor, the TPLF. Western powers only curtail the right of self-determination for the Horn of Africa and Global South states. > We condemn all military violence, extrajudicial killings, sexual violence, displacement, theft, discrimination, harassment and intimidation perpetrated on innocent Tigrayans, as well as any and all unnecessary violence perpetrated on other Ethiopians and Eritreans in the ongoing conflict as a result of their ethnic, religious, or national identity, refugee status or political affiliation. We unequivocally support and uplift mutual cooperation, solidarity, and peace among all parties and people in Ethiopia, Eritrea, and the broader Horn of Africa region. > We support African-led, localized conflict resolution that is not tied to advancing imperialism, neo-colonialism or any other nefarious Western agendas. We believe in the inherent agency and ability of Africans on the continent to reach a resolution to the conflict peacefully and independently of Western aggression, destabilization, and extractive and exploitative economic interests.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moboct1 at aol.com Thu Jul 1 16:53:43 2021 From: moboct1 at aol.com (Mildred O'brien) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 16:53:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Syrian bombing courtesy of Pres. Biden In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <524113428.1100388.1625158423226@mail.yahoo.com> Statistics from Nation magazine April 5-12, 2021 "By the Numbers" (--Jared Olson): ? ? ? ? ? ? 800 - Estimated number of US military bases around the world? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 7 - Number of countries where the US has conducted an air or drone strike since 2018? ? ? ? ? ? ? 85 - Number of countries where the US has carried out counterterrorism operations since 2018? ? ? ? ?$1.7T - Projected cost of the F-35 fighter jet program during its 69-year lifetime? ? ? ? ?$6.4T - Total cost of the US War on Terrorism? ? ? ? ? 37 M - Minimum number of people who have been internally displaced or become refugees as a result of?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?the War on Terrorism? ? ? ? ?800 K - Number of people who have been killed as a direct result of violence in the War on Terrorism M. O'Brien ? To: Peace Discuss Sent: Wed, Jun 30, 2021 8:49 pm Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Syrian bombing courtesy of Pres? ?> On Jun 30, 2021, at 8:19 PM, J.B. Nicholson via Peace wrote:> > Jimmy Dore in https://twitter.com/jimmy_dore/status/1409613911494590469 >> America is terrorizing & bombing the middle east again. We?re the terrorists. >> We?re the Imperialists. We?re the blood thirsty murdering psychopaths. We?re the >> Bad guys. This is without Trump. Congrats! > > Aaron Mat? in https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1409685549200203784 >> The fact that the US just bombed Syria & US troops are occupying it (along with >> imposing murderous sanctions) should underscore that it's derelict for left media to avoid it -- & avoid speaking out when those who do cover it are slandered for challenging the establishment line. > > Glenn Greenwald in https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1409843754698166277 >> Two days ago, "Biden ordered" illegal bombing raids on Syria and Iraq and none of the people who spent the Trump years pretending to care so deeply about the >> Constitution and rule of law uttered a peep, because they themselves are lawless >> frauds who worse a costume for 4 years. > > There are other related followups regarding the Syrian attack coverup. The OPCW whistleblowers continue to get no establishment media coverage (including Democracy Now and The Intercept which don't cover the ongoing OPCW corruption and cover-up). If you want to know what's going on in that story you have very few news sources to choose from, most notably Izzy award-winning Russiagate debunker Aaron Mat? of The Grayzone -- https://thegrayzone.com/tag/opcw-whistleblowers/ -- and the Jimmy Dore show (including Mat?'s appearances) on YouTube -- https://youtube.com/channel/UC3M7l8ved_rYQ45AVzS0RGA. > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Thu Jul 1 19:32:48 2021 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 14:32:48 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?b?RndkOiDij7BUaW1lIGlzIHRpY2tpbmcuLi4=?= References: <60ddf43925abf_7746e94f58576ea@asgworker-qmb3-13.nbuild.prd.useast1.3dna.io.mail> Message-ID: > > > > Tell the House Armed Services Committee: No $$ for Nukes or Saber-rattling with China! > > Add your name!? > Dear Karen, > > ? The House Armed Services Committee is deliberating now on the Pentagon budget for 2022. > > Do you want that to includeBILLIONS for nuclear weapons and the Pacific Deterrence Initiative, both dangerous programs that threaten to escalate conflict with China? > > Demand that the House Armed Services Committee defunds nuclear weapons and the anti-China Pacific Deterrence Initiative! > Earlier this year, President Biden released his Pentagon budget proposal for 2022, which included billions in down payments for a $2 trillion dollar nuclear rearmament program, including 600 new land-based intercontinental missiles with warheads 20 times more lethal than the atomic bombs the U.S. dropped on Japan. The House Armed Services Committee has the power to reject President Biden?s dangerous recommendation, and needs to hear from you. > This costly nuclear modernization is even more alarming in the context of increasing anti-China rhetoric that inflates the threat of China as a justification for further military spending like that of the Pacific Deterrence Initiative. Instead of escalating tensions and instigating war with another nuclear power like China, the U.S. should stop spreading this deadly anti-China propaganda and invest in global peace and cooperation. > > Call on the House Armed Services Committee to defund nuclear weapons and the dangerous Pacific Deterrence Initiative! > > Instead of investing our limited tax dollars into combating real existential threats like climate change, the Pacific Deterrence Initiative invests in environmentally destructive and expensive military equipment like the DDG-51 Arleigh Burke-class destroyer. A single destroyer like this costs 2 billion dollars, which means that 40% of the entire program budget will be spent procuring a single ship that will contribute to climate change without protecting American lives. With Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin serving on the Board of Directors for Raytheon, we know that this drive for more costly and catastrophic U.S. wars can be directly traced to the need to maintain a profit-driven war economy, and as U.S. citizens, we must challenge this! > > The House Armed Services Committee has a simple choice: they can either use their power to rubber stamp a dangerous escalation of tensions with China and a new terrifying nuclear arms race that pushes us to the brink of global annihilation or reject President Biden?s recommendation and, instead, foster global stability and survival of the human race. > > Let?s send powerful politicians on the House Armed Services Committee a clear message : the people want to defund nuclear weapons, avoid war with China, and invest in the safety of our planet! > > Towards Peace! > > Towards peace, > > Carley, Madison, Jodie, RJ and the CODEPINK Team > > PS: Spread the message of non-violence and buy our Imagine a World Without Weapons T-Shirt! It's that easy if you try! Buy some here! > > > ? 2021 CODEPINK.ORG | Created with NationBuilder > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Thu Jul 1 22:16:27 2021 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 17:16:27 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] My letter to NG Message-ID: I love Champaign Urbana, after living in as many as seven states and three Asian nations. I settled here little over ten years ago to be near my daughter in grad school at the U of I. There are many reasons to love this city, a politically active community is one. The many trees and parks another. Most of all is the people, rich with diversity, and a strong community sense one doesn?t find everywhere. I was thinking about all of this when stuck in traffic recently, as I watched a gaggle of geese crossing the road at Market Square. Adults and babies taking their rightful place in nature. So many cars stopping patiently to allow them to pass. I almost forgot the senseless slaughter at Crystal Lake Park last year, when one hundred seventy five were mercilessly gassed. There are more humane ways of dealing with over population. Today I heard of another geese slaughter, horrifying many residents in the Beringer Commons. Just as our bombs continue to drop across the globe killing and horrifying, we continue the needless slaughter of both geese and people. Saturday, July 3 at 10-11am protest the slaughter. At the entrance gates to Beringer Commons?East Main/Rt. 150 & High Cross Road, Urbana 61801. From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Sat Jul 3 10:18:53 2021 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 05:18:53 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] My letter to NG In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for your letter, Karen. Quite a few prominent citizens live in Beringer Commons. And their silence on the goose slaughter is deafening. I guess some are more worthy of Peace and Justice than others. Deb On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 5:17 PM karen via Peace wrote: > I love Champaign Urbana, after living in as many as seven states and > three Asian nations. I settled here little over ten years ago to be near my > daughter in grad school at the U of I. > > There are many reasons to love this city, a politically active community > is one. The many trees and parks another. > > Most of all is the people, rich with diversity, and a strong community > sense one doesn?t find everywhere. > > I was thinking about all of this when stuck in traffic recently, as I > watched a gaggle of geese crossing the road at Market Square. Adults and > babies taking their rightful place in nature. So many cars stopping > patiently to allow them to pass. I almost forgot the senseless slaughter at > Crystal Lake Park last year, when one hundred seventy five were mercilessly > gassed. There are more humane ways of dealing with over population. > > Today I heard of another geese slaughter, horrifying many residents in the > Beringer Commons. > > Just as our bombs continue to drop across the globe killing and > horrifying, we continue the needless slaughter of both geese and people. > > Saturday, July 3 at 10-11am protest the slaughter. At the entrance gates > to Beringer Commons?East Main/Rt. 150 & High Cross Road, Urbana 61801. > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Sat Jul 3 11:04:48 2021 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 06:04:48 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] My letter to NG In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Thanks Deb, One might say it?s little different than the silence of so many people in relation to the lives we destroy with our bombs overseas, and bullets here. ?Some are more worthy of peace and justice than others.? > On Jul 3, 2021, at 5:18 AM, Debra Schrishuhn wrote: > > Thanks for your letter, Karen. Quite a few prominent citizens live in Beringer Commons. And their silence on the goose slaughter is deafening. I guess some are more worthy of Peace and Justice than others. > Deb > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 5:17 PM karen via Peace > wrote: > I love Champaign Urbana, after living in as many as seven states and three Asian nations. I settled here little over ten years ago to be near my daughter in grad school at the U of I. > > There are many reasons to love this city, a politically active community is one. The many trees and parks another. > > Most of all is the people, rich with diversity, and a strong community sense one doesn?t find everywhere. > > I was thinking about all of this when stuck in traffic recently, as I watched a gaggle of geese crossing the road at Market Square. Adults and babies taking their rightful place in nature. So many cars stopping patiently to allow them to pass. I almost forgot the senseless slaughter at Crystal Lake Park last year, when one hundred seventy five were mercilessly gassed. There are more humane ways of dealing with over population. > > Today I heard of another geese slaughter, horrifying many residents in the Beringer Commons. > > Just as our bombs continue to drop across the globe killing and horrifying, we continue the needless slaughter of both geese and people. > > Saturday, July 3 at 10-11am protest the slaughter. At the entrance gates to Beringer Commons?East Main/Rt. 150 & High Cross Road, Urbana 61801. > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 09:16:09 2021 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 04:16:09 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] My letter to NG In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Yup. When we compartmentalize and prioritize who is worthy or what is worthy, we lose sight of the reality that if one is worthy, then all are worthy. If one is expendable, then all are expendable.We are all connected, and as a wise man once sang: "Silence like a cancer grows...." On Sat, Jul 3, 2021 at 6:04 AM karen wrote: > > Thanks Deb, > > One might say it?s little different than the silence of so many people in > relation to the lives we destroy with our bombs overseas, and bullets here. > ?Some are more worthy of peace and justice than others.? > > > > On Jul 3, 2021, at 5:18 AM, Debra Schrishuhn > wrote: > > Thanks for your letter, Karen. Quite a few prominent citizens live in > Beringer Commons. And their silence on the goose slaughter is deafening. I > guess some are more worthy of Peace and Justice than others. > Deb > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 5:17 PM karen via Peace > wrote: > >> I love Champaign Urbana, after living in as many as seven states and >> three Asian nations. I settled here little over ten years ago to be near my >> daughter in grad school at the U of I. >> >> There are many reasons to love this city, a politically active community >> is one. The many trees and parks another. >> >> Most of all is the people, rich with diversity, and a strong community >> sense one doesn?t find everywhere. >> >> I was thinking about all of this when stuck in traffic recently, as I >> watched a gaggle of geese crossing the road at Market Square. Adults and >> babies taking their rightful place in nature. So many cars stopping >> patiently to allow them to pass. I almost forgot the senseless slaughter at >> Crystal Lake Park last year, when one hundred seventy five were mercilessly >> gassed. There are more humane ways of dealing with over population. >> >> Today I heard of another geese slaughter, horrifying many residents in >> the Beringer Commons. >> >> Just as our bombs continue to drop across the globe killing and >> horrifying, we continue the needless slaughter of both geese and people. >> >> Saturday, July 3 at 10-11am protest the slaughter. At the entrance gates >> to Beringer Commons?East Main/Rt. 150 & High Cross Road, Urbana 61801. >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r-szoke at illinois.edu Sun Jul 4 18:19:14 2021 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 18:19:14 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The federal killings have been halted Message-ID: NBC News Attorney General Merrick Garland suspends federal executions Thirteen people on federal death row were executed between July 2020 and January 2021 [ during the Trump-Barr regime ]. From r-szoke at illinois.edu Sun Jul 4 18:19:14 2021 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 18:19:14 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The federal killings have been halted Message-ID: NBC News Attorney General Merrick Garland suspends federal executions Thirteen people on federal death row were executed between July 2020 and January 2021 [ during the Trump-Barr regime ]. From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue Jul 6 19:28:58 2021 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 14:28:58 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] A successful protest.... Message-ID: is when you get those whose actions you?re protesting, to listen and agree, that?s success. https://youtu.be/dx4vt4v1MzY -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Jul 7 18:03:29 2021 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 13:03:29 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Haiti Message-ID: https://blackallianceforpeace.com/bapstatements/moiseassassination From mkb3 at icloud.com Thu Jul 8 20:27:29 2021 From: mkb3 at icloud.com (Morton K. Brussel) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 15:27:29 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Fwd=3A_=F0=9F=94=97_Jean_Bricmont_shar?= =?utf-8?q?ed_a_link?= References: <60f8418a-e01c-11eb-98e2-df5919507960@facebookmail.com> Message-ID: <29BF703E-C722-4208-A69D-A171039B4A44@icloud.com> For those who read or understand French, this speech to the Belgian parliament is fabulous. Patially in Dutch, but mostly in French. Hits all the crucial notes. Unfortunately, as here, he speaks to a slim audience. Click on ther youtube image. > Begin forwarded message: > > From: "Facebook" > Subject: ? Jean Bricmont shared a link > Date: July 8, 2021 at 1:43:25 PM CDT > To: Morton Brussel > Reply-To: noreply > > > Morton, see the post that he shared. > > > Facebook > > > > > > ? Jean Bricmont shared a link. > July 8 at 1:52 AM > > View > > > > > > > This message was sent to mkb0029 at gmail.com . If you don't want to receive these emails from Facebook in the future, please unsubscribe . > Facebook, Inc., Attention: Community Support, 1 Facebook Way, Menlo Park, CA 94025 > > > To help keep your account secure, please don't forward this email. Learn More > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carl at newsfromneptune.com Tue Jul 13 21:21:09 2021 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2021 16:21:09 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: A major university is harvesting baby parts... References: <1626210519856.a8277050-787b-440c-97b4-ff926148f11e@bf10x.hubspotemail.net> Message-ID: <34E27CD6-F351-43F9-8549-DAE6F906EC89@newsfromneptune.com> > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Lauren Merz > Subject: A major university is harvesting baby parts... > Date: July 13, 2021 at 4:18:48 PM CDT > To: carl at newsfromneptune.com > Reply-To: lauren.merz at liveaction.org > > Carl, > > In case you missed the news last week, the University of San Francisco (UCSF) is harvesting body parts of aborted (murdered) babies. > > Newly obtained emails show logs of what body parts were harvested. > > 42 of 43 logs show documentation for the harvesting of genitalia and/or gonads. > > It?s horribly ironic, isn?t it ? that the people who work for so-called ?reproductive justice,? are harvesting the reproductive organs of tiny little human beings whose lives have been brutally ended through abortion. > > You can read more here: https://www.liveaction.org/news/ucsf-callous-abortion-harvesting-exposed-records/ > > This is how evil the abortion industry is. Every American needs to know this. > > You can take action right now to help put an end to these latest abortion industry horrors! > > Here are 3 ways you can get involved now: > > Share this story with your friends on social media and/or forward this email to 5 friends, everyone needs to know what the abortion industry is doing here! https://www.liveaction.org/news/ucsf-callous-abortion-harvesting-exposed-records/ > > You can contact Pro-Life San Francisco (PLSF), which is organizing a campaign to shut these people down: https://www.prolifesf.com/ucsf > > There is a call to action button at the bottom of their website linked. You can also ask the head of PLSF if there is anything else she could specifically need help with. > > There is an upcoming meeting with the UC Board of Regents, who oversee all of this, and PLSF has been making calls into these meetings to demand an end to this ?research.? Here is their Facebook event page with all the action items and everything you need, including a fact sheet and sample talking points you can use for your calls: > https://www.facebook.com/events/4212337198835928/?ti=ls > To give you an idea of how widespread this problem is, our friend David Daleiden has dedicated his life?s work to expose and put an end to the atrocious abuse of aborted fetal body parts through his organization The Center for Medical Progress (CMP). His videos gained massive attention starting in 2015. Check out his investigative footage here . > > Abortion itself - the intentional killing of an innocent preborn child - is horrendous and tragic enough. > > To then go a step further and use these body pieces, torn apart by the abortionist, for ?medical research? is outrageous. So many people don?t even know that these atrocities are taking place. > > And so many people don?t realize that these ?research? efforts are completely unnecessary! There are other, morally acceptable ways of attaining the desired medical research. > > No human should ever have to be dismembered and slaughtered for the sake of research. Ever. It?s time to outlaw abortion & criminally prosecute those who abuse the bodies of children. > > Thank you for reading and taking action today! > > For life, > > Lauren Merz > Vice President of Strategic Partnerships > > > Live Action is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. Gifts are tax-deductible in the United States. > No goods or services are offered or given in exchange for contributions. > > Make your gift here: give.liveaction.org > > Live Action 2200 Wilson Blvd. Suite 102 PMB 111, Arlington, VA 22201 > > You received this message because you are subscribed to General Email Updates from Live Action. > If you would rather not receive this type of email, you can update your email preferences here or unsubscribe from all future emails. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Sun Jul 18 22:05:10 2021 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 17:05:10 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Russiagate: Luke Harding & The Guardian providing laughs as though what they publish is journalism Message-ID: <97df818a57c8987cbc05ec12f7281b5a@forestfield.org> Russiagate might just outlive us all. The latest chapter comes courtesy of Luke Harding, Senior International Correspondent for The Guardian, in https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/15/kremlin-papers-appear-to-show-putins-plot-to-put-trump-in-white-house which is a bunch of lies written so noncommittally that you can't take it seriously. David Corn and some others provide the echo chamber pointing to Harding's lies, highlighting how unserious they are. RT has a couple of segments on it in https://youtube.com/watch?v=GWBKftBdZXo (infographics version) and https://youtube.com/watch?v=QN1ds03W7OA (interview version). The former also includes a reminder of who Luke Harding is from a previous Guardian outing where Harding claimed that "Manafort held secret talks with Assange in Ecuadorian embassy" (later the Guardian added "sources say" to that title[1]) yet in this extremely surveilled city nobody can come up with any shots of Manafort arriving at or leaving the embassy to support the allegation of his visits to Assange. There are no records of Manafort signing the visitor log that everyone else had to sign. And the CIA hired a Spanish outfit to record what went on in the embassy while Assange was there (including the bathroom) which was illegal as this included privileged discussions between Assange and his legal team working on his case. But there's no footage of Manafort in that footage. There's simply no record of Manafort having been there. There's also Luke Harding's book, "Mafia State: How one reporter became an enemy of the brutal new Russia" in which he claimed (according to the aforementioned former RT report) that while he lived in Russia, Russians would break into his home to steal his TV remote control, open and close windows, and defecate in his toilet without flushing. Given what Harding spread from the Steele dossier, it's clear that he earned his bona fides as an establishment liar (and there's never a price to pay when lying at the behest of the establishment) and a friend to the DNC (which paid for the Steele dossier). Jimmy Dore and Aaron Mat? cover Harding's garbage in https://yewtu.be/watch?v=CymL65yiXJA . All are highly worth watching. [1] Which The Guardian is still publishing years later with no retraction or explanation of who the sources are on https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/27/manafort-held-secret-talks-with-assange-in-ecuadorian-embassy . Here's a hint on who the "sources" are: the Christopher Steele dossier, home of the "pee tape" nobody ever saw. From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue Jul 20 20:37:06 2021 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 15:37:06 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] In opposition to mutual self destruction, an alternative. Message-ID: The author is a longtime friend, and while I prefer ?no more nukes,? he offers a possible alternative, that maybe a compromise worth exploring. https://warontherocks.com/2021/07/a-new-paradigm-mutually-assured-security/ From brussel at illinois.edu Tue Jul 20 22:10:30 2021 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 22:10:30 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] In opposition to mutual self destruction, an alternative. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <628E014F-FB16-4A60-BA13-089422DF630F@illinois.edu> The problem, as I see it, is a basic antagonism to the ?other?. Maintaining and striving for hegemony. Not a multipolarity of counterbalancing nations. I doubt that the protagonists truly seek ?stability?. The problem lies with militarism in general; that sector does not favor a defensive strategy. They doubt it could ever be effective. My feeling is that it?s hopeless with the present lineup, in the USA especially. We must be #1. Needed are revoluionary changes in governmental ?lites to affect current strategic thinking. ?We" would need real informed democracy in the nations involved, which do not currently exist (or have ever existed?). All this is aside from the fantastic, probably insuperable, technical problems of realization of the system described. "Star Wars" were shot down for valid reasons. Sorry ?. I suppose it?s worth while speculating. On Jul 20, 2021, at 3:37 PM, karen aram > wrote: The author is a longtime friend, and while I prefer ?no more nukes,? he offers a possible alternative, that maybe a compromise worth exploring. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://warontherocks.com/2021/07/a-new-paradigm-mutually-assured-security/__;!!DZ3fjg!oqZLBsO4MLBS8oBKEuidkq0W_R63EhawyPUSVqCp5HWw01QXT5npdCag5e_oKJjuhQ$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue Jul 20 22:42:27 2021 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:42:27 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] In opposition to mutual self destruction, an alternative. In-Reply-To: <628E014F-FB16-4A60-BA13-089422DF630F@illinois.edu> References: <628E014F-FB16-4A60-BA13-089422DF630F@illinois.edu> Message-ID: Mort, I couldn?t agree more, with your analysis of the USG. I trust the authors intent. Yes, he worked for the USG, did two assignments in the USSR, was friends with Karlovsky, and other dissidents so he isn?t pro-Russia. He is a liberal Dem, but anti-war. My friendship with Ray dates back to the seventy?s, I found him on FB a couple years ago, after you posted one of his articles you liked, here on the Peace List. I don?t trust the people he communicates or worked with, but I trust his sincerity. The technicalities of his suggested solution are where I am weak, and wonder if his suggestion is worth promoting. I see it as similar to Med4all, an alternative to Universal Healthcare. Though I have little or no hope of obtaining either one under our system of capitalism, supporting and promoting alternative solutions, if nothing else, awakens the American people to the possibilities, if we had a government with the will to support the needs of the people rather than their corporate sponsors. Thanks for your worthwhile analysis. > On Jul 20, 2021, at 5:10 PM, Brussel, Morton K wrote: > > The problem, as I see it, is a basic antagonism to the ?other?. Maintaining and striving for hegemony. Not a multipolarity of counterbalancing nations. I doubt that the protagonists truly seek ?stability?. > The problem lies with militarism in general; that sector does not favor a defensive strategy. They doubt it could ever be effective. > > My feeling is that it?s hopeless with the present lineup, in the USA especially. We must be #1. Needed are revoluionary changes in governmental ?lites to affect current strategic thinking. > ?We" would need real informed democracy in the nations involved, which do not currently exist (or have ever existed?). > > All this is aside from the fantastic, probably insuperable, technical problems of realization of the system described. "Star Wars" were shot down for valid reasons. > > Sorry ?. I suppose it?s worth while speculating. > >> On Jul 20, 2021, at 3:37 PM, karen aram > wrote: >> >> >> The author is a longtime friend, and while I prefer ?no more nukes,? he offers a possible alternative, that maybe a compromise worth exploring. >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://warontherocks.com/2021/07/a-new-paradigm-mutually-assured-security/__;!!DZ3fjg!oqZLBsO4MLBS8oBKEuidkq0W_R63EhawyPUSVqCp5HWw01QXT5npdCag5e_oKJjuhQ$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 15:43:44 2021 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 10:43:44 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] It's the same here as it has been in France, and elsewhere. In-Reply-To: <614BEC19-6E7A-4EBA-B5C6-EA553B050D7A@illinois.edu> References: <614BEC19-6E7A-4EBA-B5C6-EA553B050D7A@illinois.edu> Message-ID: 2005 - Interview with Edgar Morin: "We have created a state of intimidation" By Silvia Cattori Stop on info - July 08, 2021 Facebook Facebook It is with great joy that *Arr?t sur info * pays tribute to Edgar Morin, who today celebrates his 100th birthday, July 8, 2021, by rebroadcasting an interview carried out in June 2005 by the independent Swiss Italian journalist Silvia Cattori. 100 years is an anniversary that cannot be missed. Especially when it comes to one of the great intellectuals of the twentieth century: a sociologist and philosopher, whose courses we took at the University of Lausanne have left a deep impression on us. A very endearing personality whom, many years later, we had the desire to interview in the context of the judgment of the Court of Appeal of Versailles, rendered in May 2005, which condemned him for racial defamation in one of its stands (*). Image: Wikimedia Commons ------------------------------ *INTERVIEW WITH EDGAR MORIN* *Edgar Morin, sociologist, has been involved in all fights for sixty years (**). His words are lively and concise. It is not true that ?anti-Semitism? is back: according to him, this term is used to obscure Israeli repression, to ?Israelize? the Jews, to provide Israel with justifications for its policies.* *His positions in favor of the humiliated and offended Palestinians earned Edgar Morin slander. From our meeting with him, we keep the impression of a man of great simplicity and integrity. We would like to thank him for granting us permission to publish this interview.* Interview by Silvia Cattori in June 2005 ------------------------------ *Silvia Cattori* : *You were convicted of "racial defamation" [1] for having criticized Israel. Can you tell us what motivated your positions in this conflict?* *Edgar Morin* : First of all, there is one thing that the unconditional defenders of Israel do not understand, it is that one can be animated by compassion for a people who are suffering. It is the continuous suffering of Palestinians, subjected to humiliations, annoyances, destroyed houses, torn trees, that animate me. Obviously the articles that I write are not affective articles. I'm trying to make diagnoses. The article " Israel-Palestine: Cancer " [2], which led to my blame, was conceived with this in mind. I had previously written an article titled " *The Double Look* " [3], in which I tried to understand the reasons given by the Israelis on the one hand, and the reasons given by the Palestinians on the other. It is obvious that the inequality is incredible. I had also developed this reflection in a text, called " *The simple and the complex* " [4], where I tried to see the two aspects of the conflict. I was saying that there is an oppressor and an oppressed; that the Israeli oppressor has formidable strength and the Palestinian oppressed has almost no strength. *Silvia Cattori* : *Can you explain what you mean by ?the complex??* *Edgar Morin* : The ?complex? comes from the fact that the Jews of course carry with them the memory of the persecutions undergone in the past; a memory which is obviously fueled by the incessant reminder of Auschwitz, which is called Shoah. It is also clear that as long as Israel's isolation in this Middle Eastern world continues, as long as there is not a policy which allows its integration, there is a threat just as radical as that which weighed on the Frankish Kingdom, the Christian Kingdom of Saint-Jean d'Acre. *Silvia Cattori* : *So you wanted to call Israel for more reason?* *Edgar Morin* : This article was written at one of the most intense and violent times. It was 2002, during Sharon's military offensive. It was Jenin's moment. A moment of great repression. Hence the need to intervene and bear witness. I based my text on many direct testimonies. Besides, I wanted to have it co-signed by Sami Nair, a French friend, himself of North African origin, and by Danielle Sallenave who, herself, had gone to Palestine. It is obvious that with this text I wanted to establish a diagnosis and give an alarm signal. So I thought about it, measured in its complexity. There was a question I wanted to ask. How was it that two millennia of persecution and humiliation had not served as an experience not to humiliate others? How did it come about that Israel, itself the heir of persecuted and humiliated Jews, persecutes and humiliates the Palestinians? It is this historical paradox that I questioned and that I have been criticized a lot - among others - in the pro-Israel camp. So this passage provoked the fury of intellectuals like Finkielkraut. *Silvia Cattori* : *What was wrong?* *Edgar Morin* : The conviction relates to two passages. [5] These passages, taken out of their context, led the Court of Appeal to consider them as racially defamatory; that magistrates and a public prosecutor arrive at the conviction of the authors of the article and of the daily newspaper which published it. However, it is absolutely obvious that the article in question is neither anti-Semitic, nor racial, nor racist. It is clearly stated that it is the Jews of Israel, and not the Jews of rue des Rosiers or Brooklyn, who persecute the Palestinians. It is also specified that it is not only the Israeli occupier who arrives at such exactions, but any occupant in a territory where he is not accepted. However, the court did not accept as ?incitement to terrorism? the passage where I said that we had to try to understand why there were these human bombs, called suicide bombers. I tried to give the psychological, historical reasons, including the political intervention of Hamas; in short, I am only trying to understand what is happening in the soul and the spirit of these combatants and the conditions of despair and hatred which animate them. Even if the court did not find them right on this passage, these questions are perceived by those who accuse as an "apology for terrorism". They don't even want us to try to figure out why people sacrifice their lives like this! *Silvia Cattori* : *Everything that is happening on this subject is incomprehensible to most people!* *Edgar Morin*: It happens that, for a large part of the Israelis - and perhaps a large part of the Jews who are here in France in the hands of the CRIF [6], of these so-called community organizations - there is a a sort of Judeo-centrism, a phenomenon of war hysteria: the enemy is shown from a diabolical angle and oneself one always believes to be right. It happens that, although in France we are not at war, there is this state of mind which makes them see anti-Semitism in any criticism of Israel. Now it is obvious that one can, with perverse arguments, insinuate that all those who criticize Israel - which is a state which declares itself Jewish, which claims to be Jewish, and which claims to represent all Jews - become anti-Semites. It's kind of a vicious circle. I believe that in addition, to stir up an imaginary anti-Semitism, *Silvia Cattori* : *Isn't Israel strong enough like that?* *Edgar Morin* : Israel only exists because there was anti-Semitism, the culmination of which was Nazi anti-Semitism. Despite its heterogeneity, Israel initially felt vitally threatened by its Arab neighbors. But since 1967, where he is in the position of the strongest State, he needs to camouflage this situation of domination by that of victim. Hence the return to Auschwitz and the incessant reminders of the past martyrdom. Consequently, Israel is led to awaken the idea that in countries where there are many Jews, the ?gentiles? (non-Jews) are fundamentally or potentially anti-Semites. This amounts to saying to the Jews "you are not at home in France, at home it is Israel". In other words, anti-Semitism feeds in a certain way a policy which, instead of seeking good understanding and peace, seeks the solution in the annexations of new lands. In short, this is the context in which the phenomenon of ?anti-Semitism? and its instrumentalization must be situated. *Silvia Cattori* : *So if I understand correctly you are saying that there are people who poison the debate to defend the indefensible?* *Edgar Morin* : After the publication of my article there were of course many messages of understanding and recognition by those who understood this complex vision; but there were also insults and insults. A very educated woman, engineer, said to me "but sir what are you talking about!" Jerusalem has been ours for three thousand years! As if it was historical evidence that Jerusalem had been eternally Jewish. *Silvia Cattori* : *Isn't this determination to silence any criticism that embarrasses Israel harmful?* *Edgar Morin* : The idea of those who slander me is to send the message that, although of Jewish origin, I can be anti-Semitic. They advance the *?self-hatred?* argument . Because, indeed, certain Jews, in particular in Germany before the Second World War, feeling perfectly at ease in the German culture, felt an embarrassment to have this motley, heterogeneous thing, which was their origin. . But to come to accuse me of *"self-hatred"* is absolutely ridiculous! This is all absolutely ludicrous. These Jewish organizations that are suing me - Lawyers Without Borders, France-Israel - have already sued other people a lot. The first case they did not lose is the appeal case where I am involved and where, I believe, it is on the instruction of the Ministry of Justice, as part of this extreme vigilance on anti-Semitism , that the prosecution took the floor during the trial - which it never does in this kind of trial - to say that there were two passages which should be considered as racial defamation. This is the context. *Silvia Cattori* : *Do you intend to respond to slander?* *Edgar Morin* : I intend to publish all the articles that I have written on this question, under the title perhaps: ?Racist and anti-Semitic writings? so that at least the readers can see what it is about. Because it is true that it is very difficult to understand what is happening in Israel-Palestine. *Silvia Cattori* : *Which amounts to saying that as long as the rights of the strongest obscure the rights of the weakest, it is this unidimensional vision that will prevail.* *Edgar Morin* : We saw destroyed houses on television, we saw tanks shoot at children; but what you cannot see on television is the daily humiliation done to those Palestinians who show up at checkpoints, to these old people who are made to undress in front of their children. It is for this horrible contempt that I wanted to give an account; of this dreadful contempt, especially shown by these young IDF soldiers, perhaps not all of them; there is still a small minority who will help the Palestinians to rebuild destroyed houses. This humiliation is not seen outside; it is those who go there who have noticed it. This is why many people fail to understand the daily situation of the Palestinians. Moreover, it is clear to me that all these trials have always been wanted in order to make Israeli and American opinion believe that France is anti-Semitic. And then when these organizations lose the cases, they spread the idea that the judges are also anti-Semites. So they win from that point of view. And by that very fact they scare, they intimidate. However, if there is a surge of racism, it is on the Palestinians that it is manifested. *Silvia Cattori* : *But when will this intimidation stop?* *Edgar Morin* : A lot of people say to me "but you can write these things because you are of Jewish origin but we would not dare, we are afraid, we would immediately be called anti-Semite" . So, this fear of being called an anti-Semite every time we want to exercise an act of free criticism, creates a poisoned climate. That is why I believe that the judgment handed down by the court the other day - judgment which condemns me - will further exacerbate this climate and make it more and more difficult to criticize Israel and, in a sense, freedom to expression. Not to mention the fact that this kind of discredit, outrage, done to people, including myself, who have fought all their lives against all forms of discrimination, is iniquitous as well as grotesque. *Silvia Cattori* : *Did this unfortunate experience make you discover a reality that you did not recognize? That there is, in France, a way of takeover based on intimidation and demonization that ruins lives?* *Edgar Morin* : Are you talking about people who lost the cases? *Silvia Cattori* : *I am referring to cases where even when cases are won they are followed by appeals.* *Edgar Morin* : I knew this reality very well. I know the journalist Daniel Mermet who was also prosecuted. I know that so far they have lost all lawsuits. The only time they've won is with our article. *Silvia Cattori* : *It is understandable that uninformed people can be shaken by your argument. But when an informed person, like Alain Finkielkraut for example, affirms to be seized with ?terror? [7] while reading you, one does not know any more what to think !?* *Edgar Morin* : It's a well-known phenomenon. There is a closure from the moment the pro-Israelis feel that it is Israel the victim, and that it is the Palestinians the culprits who want Israel killed, which justifies all this repression against them. . >From the moment they get the impression that when the press shows images of Israeli tanks, it is a one-sided, pro-Palestinian press, and that any information that talks about the suffering of the Palestinians is pro-Palestinian. -palestinian, therefore tendentious, we enter into a totally closed concept. When you are dealing with a closed group that is convinced that it has justice on its side, it allows itself the right to say and do anything. It is the same with the "terrorist" groups that Israel fights. The fact is that there, with this conflict, an always self-justified Jewish nationalism and chauvinism was created; in the rest of the public opinion one is afraid to pass for anti-Semitic because of the past centuries of anti-Semitism. The just guilt of anti-Semitism paralyzes the just criticism of Israel. *Silvia Cattori* : *Can we conclude that supporting Israel is the wrong fight? That justice would like all Israelis and all the Jews of the world to unite to demand from the Israeli government an end to the abuses?* *Edgar Morin* : There is a minority of Jews who are fighting in that direction. And even, I can tell you that in Israel, one can write things which, here, would bring us lawsuits. Rabbi Leibowitz said that Israel was becoming a "Judeo-Nazi state". But here in France, under my signature, we would go to trial. We have created in some minds a state of intimidation and psychological terror. *Silvia Cattori* : *Intellectuals and activists of the Jewish faith were generally at the forefront of the struggle for freedoms. However, many of them - most often from Trotskyism or Communism - today practice a kind of McCarthyism. They are immediately ready to designate ?anti-Semites? [8]; this in a completely arbitrary manner and to speak, finally, with the same voice as those Jewish institutions whose accusation of anti-Semitism, followed by lawsuits, is the specialty. Strange reversal, isn't it?* *Edgar Morin* : The ones you are talking about were not of the Jewish faith. They were not religious. They were of Jewish origin, but they had become internationalists, universalists. However, from the moment when many of these militants - who were Trotskyists, Maoists, Communists - lost their faith, there was a crisis in them and they found a reason to hope by clinging to Israel. . This was the case with Benny Levi, the former Maoist leader; this was the case of Annie Kriegel, ex-Stalinist. You have a return to this identity which becomes closed. Unique to Jews in the Western world, once they accepted their status as citizens, they were part of the nation; they were no longer part of a dispersed Jewish people; they were no longer part of a Jewish state that no longer existed. Many of them no longer had any ties to religion even though they sometimes went to synagogue out of respect for their families. So the three elements that formed Jewish identity before the diaspora, "a nation, a people, a religion", had disappeared. The Jews, who thus quite naturally entered the world of the "Gentiles", saw very well the danger which narrow nationalism posed for them. They therefore had universalist tendencies; they were Europeanists, they were globalists, they were internationalists. But from the creation of the Jewish state, and especially from the seventies, many Jews from the outside world felt solidarity with Israel, linked to this state by a double fidelity; which can very well be understood. The Communists themselves were French and at the same time in solidarity with the Soviet Union. You have a state. You have a people. Moreover, many Jewish youth organizations say ?one people in two nations?. We reconstituted the idea of a Jewish people. And the secularized Jews began to read the Bible, the Talmud. There has been a return to religion. So the three components of ancient Jewish identity have been resuscitated. And when we are in such a component, and in a situation of war, we begin to hate the enemy and all those who alter the beautiful image of oneself. *Silvia Cattori* : *What image?* *Edgar Morin* : It was the sabra, it was the man who colonized the land, it was the myth of a people "without land for a land without people" who made flowers grow in the desert, it was a people of heroic fighters; there was this wonderful image of the Jew that had eliminated the image of the fearful little ghetto Jew. And when, a little later, we realize that these same people are sending missiles to liquidate Hamas militants, real or supposed, destroy towns - like Jenin in 2002 - are doing all these repressive military operations, it touches the self-image " ; the image of many Jews who cannot recognize themselves in this image. The image in which they recognize themselves is, I am the martyr of Auschwitz, I am the handsome Israeli who fertilizes the land. So. So when this "self" image is altered in such a dramatic way, they also come to hate anyone who, through criticism of Israel, destroys the "self" image. Why for a long time ?they? did not want to call the Palestinians the Palestinians? Because they were Arabs! Even Golda Meir said of them that they were "beasts". They did not even want to give them an identity. It was the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO,) with Arafat, which ended up making the world recognize the notion of Palestinian and ended up having it recognized in extremis by the Israeli government. Remain that the idea that the Palestinians can exist in a land which was supposedly "without people" is an idea which offends them; Palestinians are seen as parasites. So this is how it all came into being. Unfortunately all of this - which is understandable - is quite lamentable. *Silvia Cattori* : *Didn't the political authorities in Europe favor this deleterious climate?* *Edgar Morin* : I believe that these campaigns, led by the CRIF and a few other community organizations, made the government and the authorities almost capitulate. By saying that they were fighting racism, they mainly wanted to fight anti-Semitism. They forgot about other racisms, and not just against Arabs, but Gypsies, etc. I believe that it is also the political importance of the Jewish minority in France - there is indeed an Islamic minority which is larger in number but less influential politically - which leads the government to more or less meet its wishes. CRIF officials even allowed themselves to criticize France's international policy without the government having anything to say. *Silvia Cattori* : *This submission can only encourage these campaigns?* *Edgar Morin* : Yes. They feel encouraged by so much attention. And to ensure that the commemoration of Auschwitz is focused only on the Jews, when we know full well that there were other victims as well. And that among the victims of Nazi repression there were about two and a half million Soviet prisoners of war who died in the camps. We know that the repression was primarily focused on the Jews; but it also focused on the Gypsies, on the mentally deficient. We know that this repression would have hit the Slavs massively too, if Hitler had won the war. All of this, which was similarly focused on the Jews - as if they were humanity's sole victims - caused shock in return. The blacks ended up saying "What about us, and five centuries of slavery and the slave trade?" "And the Algerians" And the war in Algeria, and what the French did to us. " I think it is quite right that all those who have suffered from what we can call European barbarism, are now saying "We must not be forgotten!" It's not just Jews in the world ?! I think they (the Jewish institutions) have gone too far. It is true that at the beginning, when there was the liberation of the camps, we only spoke of political deportees; we did not specifically speak of the Jews. It should be noted that in France there were more political deportees than Jewish deportees. This was due to the fact that part of the French population had hidden Jews. France with Bulgaria - while in other countries there were 60 to 80% Jewish victims - is the country where among the deportees, the Jews were in fewer numbers because many good people hid and protected Jews in the cities and the countryside. In France, at the end of the war, we mainly talked about returning political deportees, but we had not talked about the Jews in particular. But now we've gone to the other extreme. We forget all the other deportees. However, all these excesses are part of a political vision in which the Jews can only be heroes or victims. And if we undermine this double image, then we are a bastard. *Silvia Cattori* : *Don't you nostalgia for a time when Jews and non-Jews were free from particularisms? We're right there right now. Any ?goyim? can be suspected of ?anti-Semitism?.* *Edgar Morin* : Yes. This brings us back to what for centuries any Jew could be a suspect. And that every Jew had the disturbing strangeness. And now for the Jews any ?goyim? can be suspect, that's for sure; there is a reversal. *Silvia Cattori* : *Doesn't being sentenced seem to upset you too much?* *Edgar Morin* : No, I'm just being slandered. It has happened to me to be slandered or marginalized for other reasons. No, besides, I will resist that. I will publish all the articles I have done on this issue. I will intervene where I am asked to intervene. It seems that there has been a debate at the Sorbonne these days. Monsieur Roire, a journalist from Le Figaro, asked how I was "anti-Semitic" since I was a Jew; and Mr. Barnavi, ex Ambassador of Israel, would have said that my article is one-sided, that it was quite astonishing that an author who claims to be a philosopher of complexity, writes an article that is worth nothing at all, but that 'he was not in favor of taking these cases to court. *Silvia Cattori* : *Did you have a dialogue with the leaders of the associations which are at the origin of your conviction?* *Edgar Morin* : No, I never spoke with them, no; or rather, they never had a dialogue with me. *Silvia Cattori* : *Supporting Israel, wanting to punish perfectly honorable people, is that to the advantage of these institutions?* *Edgar Morin* : No, it is not to their advantage in France, but it has an advantage on the international, American level. They need to cry out anti-Semitism, to say that anti-Semitism is unfolding. All of this serves to justify Israel. What they do is strategically well designed. *Silvia Cattori* : Thank you. [1] The association "France-Isra?l G?neral-Koenig" and "Avocats sans fronti?res" (chaired by Gilles-Williams Goldnadel) sued Edgar Morin in 2002 after the publication of the article " Israel-Palestine: cancer ?Published in June 2002 in the free column of the daily Le Monde. [2] Edgar Morin, Danielle Sallenave and Sami Na?r, co - signed ? Israel-Palestine: cancer ?. They were convicted on appeal by the Court of Versailles on May 27, 2005, while the Tribunal de grande instance of Nanterre had acquitted them in May 2004. [3] "Israel-Palestine: The Double Look". Liberation, September 11, 1997. [4] "The Simple and the Complex". Le Monde, February 2, 2001. [5] The first incriminated passage ?It is hard to imagine that a nation of fugitives, from the longest persecuted people in the history of mankind, having suffered the worst *humiliations* and the worst contempt, is capable of transform in two generations into a domineering and self-confident people and, with the exception of an admirable minority, into a contemptuous people having satisfaction in humiliating ?. The second incriminated passage: "The Jews who were victims of a ruthless order impose their ruthless order on the Palestinians." [6] Representative Council of Jewish Institutions in France. [7] Alain Finkielkraut: ?Between Mel Gibson and Edgar Morin?. L'Arche, May 2004. [8] *Ras l'Front* , the Proche-Orient Info site, SOS Racisme among others. *(*) Edgar Morin's conviction was overturned on July 12 by the Court of Cassation * *(**) Edgar Morin, born in 1921, emeritus researcher at the National Center for Scientific Research (CNRS), director of the section of human and social sciences (CETHSAH), is still in full swing.* On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 11:35 PM Brussel, Morton K wrote: > Hi David, > > I wish I could have the patience and time to translate this interview with > Edgar Morin. On the chance you could read it, here it is, in French. > > > https://arretsurinfo.ch/2005-entretien-avec-edgar-morin-on-a-cree-un-etat-dintimidation/ > > One of the best analyses of the phenomenon of faux antisemitism that I > have encountered. Edgar Morin just had his 100th birthday, a Jew who was > condemed for his antisemitism (later exonerated) in France. > > Mort > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Jul 28 12:45:43 2021 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 07:45:43 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Vijay Prashad, David Harvey and others..... References: Message-ID: > Subject: Vijay Prashad, David Harvey and others..... > > One of the most interesting and informative talks with Vijay Prashad and David Harvey. Vijay as always offers humor along with a deeper understanding of the todays situation. > > https://peoplesforum.org/event/book-talk-and-discussion-the-anti-capitalist-chronicles/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Jul 28 20:14:58 2021 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 15:14:58 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Tribute to Glen Ford of the BAR, by Danny Haiphong References: Message-ID: > Subject: Tribute to Glen Ford of the BAR, by Danny Haiphong > > https://www.facebook.com/DannyHaiphong/videos/563833841315250/?notif_id=1627500150372251¬if_t=live_video&ref=notif -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Fri Jul 30 19:32:04 2021 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 14:32:04 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: UPTV & Let Cuba Live rally! References: Message-ID: > > From: Party for Socialism and Liberation Champaign-Urbana > Date: July 30, 2021 at 1:37:30 PM CDT > To: undisclosed-recipients:; > Subject: UPTV & Let Cuba Live rally! > > Dear siblings and supporters, > > We're excited to announce that PSL-CU has a regular time slot on Urbana Public Television (UPTV6)! Tune in tonight (7/30) at 9PM to watch some great segments about the ongoing situation in Cuba. You can watch and share the UPTV live stream here https://livestream.com/urbana/events/8196114 . > > We're also going to be out in Beardsley Park at 2PM tomorrow, July 31st, to rally against the illegal US blockade of Cuba. You can find more information on the facebook event page (here ) or checking out the flyer below. We hope to see you there! > > > > Solidarity! > PSL CU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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