[Peace-discuss] Pretty good stance for a try anti-imperialist left

[Boyle, Francis A]

This very much reminds me of after 9/11/2001 where there was an Avalanche in favor of war. All I could do was speak out against it—for the next 20 years. Fab.

Francis A. Boyle
Law Building
504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
Champaign IL 61820 USA
Phone: 217-333-7954
Fax: 217-244-1478
(personal comments only)


From: Boyle, Francis A
Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2022 9:30 AM
To: karen aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>; naiman.uiuc at gmail.com
Cc: Morton K. Brussel <mkb0029 at gmail.com>; Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>; C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com>; David Green <davidgreen50 at gmail.com>; Peace <peace at anti-war.net>
Subject: RE: [Peace-discuss] Pretty good stance for a try anti-imperialist left


You are all  free to disagree with me  but at this point it seems to me  that all we can do is speak out against this war when we are given the opportunity to do so. At least that is what I have been doing from the get-go. Fab.

Francis A. Boyle
Law Building
504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
Champaign IL 61820 USA
Phone: 217-333-7954
Fax: 217-244-1478
(personal comments only)


From: karen aram <karenaram at hotmail.com<mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2022 8:05 AM
To: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com<mailto:naiman.uiuc at gmail.com>
Cc: Morton K. Brussel <mkb0029 at gmail.com<mailto:mkb0029 at gmail.com>>; Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at anti-war.net<mailto:peace-discuss at anti-war.net>>; C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com<mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com>>; David Green <davidgreen50 at gmail.com<mailto:davidgreen50 at gmail.com>>; Peace <peace at anti-war.net<mailto:peace at anti-war.net>>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Pretty good stance for a try anti-imperialist left

As to a plan, this organization, please see the below, appears to be on the right page so far. Their focus isn’t just anti-war which is a lost cause these days, if one doesn't know the history they won’t understand or recognize the solution, this group has included the 2nd. worse disaster facing humanity, global warming.

I hope and recommend they continue to organize and add poverty at some point, which requires a class analysis, and includes the lack of healthcare, affordable housing, decent wages, jobs, etc.

As I said previously, our system and institutions are so broken and corrupt what we need is structural system change, that recognition will only come about when people are united rather than divided as they have been on the various issues.

Event by Veterans for Peace Milwaukee Chapter 102<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.facebook.com/MilwaukeeVetsforPeace/__;!!DZ3fjg!t_8RvYGOlEFMwfOPwb3yAhwMAN37L8aons7-CnNBjrjrsDSfBMoVLmKWwjBY9-5yFg$>, Veterans For Peace<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.facebook.com/veteransforpeace/__;!!DZ3fjg!t_8RvYGOlEFMwfOPwb3yAhwMAN37L8aons7-CnNBjrjrsDSfBMoVLmKWwjBmvIs7ng$> and Peace Action of Wisconsin<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.facebook.com/peaceactionwi/__;!!DZ3fjg!t_8RvYGOlEFMwfOPwb3yAhwMAN37L8aons7-CnNBjrjrsDSfBMoVLmKWwjD7gBXavA$>
Group · Climate Crisis and Militarism<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.facebook.com/groups/296341822661636/__;!!DZ3fjg!t_8RvYGOlEFMwfOPwb3yAhwMAN37L8aons7-CnNBjrjrsDSfBMoVLmKWwjDx4qzacg$>

The Climate Crisis and Militarism: an Earth Day Presentation by Garett Reppenhagen, Executive Director of national Veterans for Peace

Veterans for Peace Climate Crisis and Militarism Project is part of the world-wide movement to end the climate crisis and promote climate, environmental, racial, and economic justice. US militarism, the single largest institutional source of greenhouse gasses on the planet, fuels the climate crisis.

The solution requires the US military to step back from its doctrine of Full Spectrum Dominance, including reducing the unsustainable annual military budget; closing military bases around the world; de-militarizing US foreign policy; and redirecting funds towards mitigating the climate crisis.

Garett Reppenhagen is the son of a Vietnam Veteran and grandson of two World War II Veterans. He served in the U.S. Army as a Cavalry/Scout Sniper in the 1st Infantry Division. Garett completed a deployment in Kosovo on a 9-month peace-keeping mission and a combat tour in Baquaba, Iraq. Garett gained an Honorable Discharge in May of 2005 and began working as a veterans advocate and a dedicated activist. He served as the Chairman of the Board of Iraq Veterans Against the War, worked in Washington, DC, as a lobbyist and as Vice President of Public Relations for the Nobel Prize winning Veterans For America, as a Program Director for Veterans Green Jobs and was the Rocky Mountain Director for Vet Voice Foundation. Garett lives in Maine where he serves as the Executive Director for Veterans For Peace
PEACE ACTION OF WI ZOOM ONE CLICK JOIN
one click join  https://us02web.zoom.us/j/7165675210...<https://us02web.zoom.us/j/7165675210?pwd=WjJUcTE3c0gwd1NhQndab3dFQ3hRQT09&fbclid=IwAR3Fb19PhE0phc_ENTmj0R0DtjZ4WPXigFQvE4RLm0Yi1GR4zDirKqgglcw>
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Presented by Milwaukee Veterans for Peace & Peace Action WI





On Apr 8, 2022, at 9:15 PM, karen aram <karenaram at hotmail.com<mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>> wrote:

Robert

Why, are we disturbing you?
Do you own the Peace Discuss List?
Do you have a plan to do anything to prevent WW3?
Do you really think we are ignorant and don’t know what the USG is doing now that we need you to inform us?

If you have a plan, please let us hear it?



On Apr 8, 2022, at 8:36 PM, Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com<mailto:naiman.uiuc at gmail.com>> wrote:

I wasn't addressing you specifically. I'd like to know if there's a single person here who is jabbering about Russia-Ukraine who has a plan to do anything about it.



On Fri, Apr 8, 2022 at 7:51 PM karen aram <karenaram at hotmail.com<mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>> wrote:
I’m sorry Robert, I wasn’t speaking to you, and deliberately deleted you from the conversation.

Please don’t address me again.



On Apr 8, 2022, at 5:45 PM, Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com<mailto:naiman.uiuc at gmail.com>> wrote:


Here's some data on the U.S. government.

1. This is roughly the same Congress that impeached Trump for delaying the shipment of Javelin missiles to Ukraine. Not stopping. Delaying. Under Congressional pressure, Trump sent the Javelins. This Congress impeached him anyway. That was before Russia invaded Ukraine, before the 24/7 U.S. media focus on Russian atrocities in Ukraine, before Ukraine surprised everyone by putting up a much stronger fight against Russia than expected, before Germany surprised everyone by responding much more aggressively than anyone expected, doing things they've refused to do for years.

2. All the sanctions on Russia Biden is proposing are flying through Congress. The Senate vote to revoke Russia's most-favored-nation trade status was 100-0. Even Rand Paul voted for it.

What's the plan to change U.S. policy on this, when the bipartisan support in Congress for what Biden is doing is wall-to-wall? When from the point of view of people with power in Washington, current U.S. policy is working for them beyond their wildest dreams?

On Fri, Apr 8, 2022 at 6:01 PM karen aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
  Mark, out of the three is the best source for internal Russian obstacles/problems but does it matter? Understanding our government and it’s internal conditions and contradictions seem to me to be most important, as we should be considering how to change our behavior.

Sorry, about the Mark Sleboda link not working. Try this one: https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-trp-001&ei=UTF-8&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=trp&p=the+grayzone+project+with+mark+sleboda&type=Y143_F163_201897_102620#id=2&vid=16c587674d7cf42400567ead360a7e19&action=click<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-trp-001&ei=UTF-8&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=trp&p=the*grayzone*project*with*mark*sleboda&type=Y143_F163_201897_102620*id=2&vid=16c587674d7cf42400567ead360a7e19&action=click__;KysrKysj!!DZ3fjg!t_8RvYGOlEFMwfOPwb3yAhwMAN37L8aons7-CnNBjrjrsDSfBMoVLmKWwjApweb6fQ$>

On Apr 8, 2022, at 3:56 PM, Morton K. Brussel <mkb0029 at gmail.com<mailto:mkb0029 at gmail.com>> wrote:

A rather (over) sanguine view from Pepe Escobar. Whether Russia can overcome its internal obstacles/problems and fulfill the scenario described is debatable. Expertise of the internal conditions in Russia is needed!

Mar Slebota’s piece was not available at the link given. Curious.

On Apr 8, 2022, at 11:23 AM, karen aram <karenaram at hotmail.com<mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>> wrote:


Scott Ridder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdM5Pkyl0_8<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdM5Pkyl0_8__;!!DZ3fjg!v-X0NH-ci7-SPP-X04Sg5f_m3d9H0BFZwUIMJldYydZkYfjklCM44eZihsxjxqc-3g$>

Mark Sleboda
https://thegrayzone.com/.../04/war-ukraine-unipolar-world/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https*3A*2F*2Fthegrayzone.com*2F...*2F04*2Fwar-ukraine-unipolar-world*2F*3Ffbclid*3DIwAR081Tftf0-jNFkFvTDn7r_T-XbFOt5tnEDSpCtD-TOWTHAqDd1PaGpZGXU&h=AT3AEW__kRzPEsVGPwvWXlkz0tRJHghPI3VPGqhVecS2CnW1ROBzAdMI_vkaMcJ41dDBVXvZBvOzQPefLhrUdvcDgUu2jYjvsjENcyCYHVBX-DhuwsR188fy1F6Rl8r73esJs0E&__tn__=-UK-R&c*5B0*5D=AT1H40ifLxHQ8JyoABXzHaw7U10TKnTpmpDae_M_Yos7VGk1FrioKdQ4oGNqS45Q1IUUwu-aHFpFesVXi6F3hIlBChnehK9TJs8wuUH_ykrK3XOZUV0wt4ham9eNkbROGLK-jFqJQOLm4uiNJIVXBVhUF2Q__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!DZ3fjg!v-X0NH-ci7-SPP-X04Sg5f_m3d9H0BFZwUIMJldYydZkYfjklCM44eZihswIplyp4A$>

and Pepe Escobar
offer similar assessments of what has taken place and what’s to come.
Pepe not a military analyst, as are Scott and Mark, is a geopolitical journalist and has been predicting for seven years now, what’s to come.

From Pepe:

UKRAINE AFTER THE WAR
Mariupol was battered by Ukraine’s right-wing Azov battalion well before Moscow launched its military ops. In Russian hands, this strategic steelworks port can transform into a hub of Eurasian connectivity.
Mariupol, the strategic Sea of Azov port, remains in the eye of the storm in Ukraine.
The NATO narrative is that Azovstal – one of Europe’s biggest iron and steel works – was nearly destroyed by the Russian Army and its allied Donetsk forces who “lay siege” to Mariupol.
The true story is that the neo-Nazi Azov batallion took scores of Mariupol civilians as human shields since the start of the Russian military operation in Ukraine, and retreated to Azovstal as a last stand. After an ultimatum delivered last week, they are now being completely exterminated by the Russian and Donetsk forces and Chechen Spetsnaz.
Azovstal, part of the Metinvest group controlled by Ukraine’s wealthiest oligarch, Rinat Akhmetov, is indeed one of the biggest metallurgic plants in Europe, self-described as a “high-performance integrated metallurgical enterprise that produces coke and sinter, steel as well as high-quality rolled products, bars and shapes.”
Amidst a flurry of testimonials detailing the horrors inflicted by the Azov neo-Nazis on Mariupol’s civilian population, a way more auspicious, invisible story bodes well for the immediate future.
Russia is the world’s fifth largest steel producer, apart from holding huge iron and coal deposits. Mariupol – a steel Mecca – used to source coal from Donbass, but under de facto neo-Nazi rule since the 2014 Maidan events, was turned into an importer. Iron, for instance, started to be supplied from Krivbas in Ukraine, over 200 kilometers away.
After Donetsk solidifies itself as an independent republic or, via referendum, chooses to become part of the Russian Federation, this situation is bound to change.
Azovstal is invested in a broad product line of very useful stuff: structural steel, rail for railroads, hardened steel for chains, mining equipment, rolled steel used in factory apparatus, trucks and railroad cars. Parts of the factory complex are quite modern while some, decades old, are badly in need of upgrading, which Russian industry can certainly provide.
Strategically, this is a huge complex, right at the Sea of Azov – which is now, for all practical purposes, incorporated into the Donetsk People’s Republic, and close to the Black Sea. That implies a short trip to the Eastern Mediterranean, including many potential customers in West Asia. And crossing Suez and reaching the Indian Ocean, customers all across South and Southeast Asia.
So the Donetsk People’s Republic, possibly part of the future Novorossiya, and even part of Russia, will be in control of a lot of steel-making capacity for southern Europe, West Asia and beyond.
One of the inevitable consequences is that it will be able to supply a real freight railroad construction boom in Russia, China and the Central Asian ‘stans.’ Railroad construction happens to be the privileged connectivity mode for Beijing’s ambitious Belt and Road Initiative (BRI). And, crucially, of the increasingly turbo-charged International North South Transportation Corridor (INSTC).
So, mid-term, Mariupol should expect to become one of the key hubs of a boom in north-south routes – INSTC across Russia and linking with the ‘stans’ – as well as major BRI upgrades east-west as well as sub-BRI corridors.
Interlocked Eurasia
The INSTC’s main players are Russia, Iran and India – which are now, pos-NATO sanctions, in advanced interconnection mode, complete with devising mechanisms to bypass the US dollar in their trade. Azerbaijan is another important INSTC player, yet more volatile because it privileges Turkey’s connectivity designs in the Caucasus.
The INSTC network will be progressively interconnecting also with Pakistan – and that means the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), a key BRI hub, which is slowly but surely expanding to Afghanistan. Foreign Minister Wang Yi’s impromptu visit to Kabul late last week was to advance the incorporation of Afghanistan to the New Silk Roads.
All that is happening as Moscow – extremely close to New Delhi – is simultaneously expanding trade relations with Islamabad. All three, crucially, are Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) members.
So the grand North-South design spells out fluent connectivity from the Russian mainland to the Caucasus (Azerbaijan), to West Asia (Iran) all the way to South Asia (India and Pakistan). None of these key players have demonized or sanctioned Russia despite ongoing US pressures to do so.
Strategically, that represents the Russian multipolar concept of Greater Eurasian Partnership in action in terms of trade and connectivity – in parallel and complimentary with BRI because India, eager to install a rupee-ruble mechanism to buy energy, in this case is an absolutely crucial Russia partner, matching China’s reported $400 billion strategic deal with Iran. In practice, the Greater Eurasia Partnership will facilitate smoother connectivity between Russia, Iran, Pakistan and India.
The NATO universe, meanwhile, is congenitally incapable of even recognizing the complexity of the alignment, not to mention analyze its implications. What we have is the interlocking of BRI, INTSC and the Greater Eurasia Partnership on the ground – all notions that are regarded as anathema in the Washington Beltway.
All that of course is being designed amidst a game-changing geoeconomic moment, as Russia, starting this Thursday, will only accept payment for its gas in rubles from “unfriendly” nations.
Parallel to the Geater Eurasia Partnership, BRI, since it was launched in 2013, is also progressively weaving a complex, integrated Eurasian network of partnerships – financial/economic, connectivity, physical infrastructure building, economic/trade corridors. BRI’s role as a co-shaper of institutions of global governance, including normative foundations, has also been crucial, much to the despair of the NATO alliance.
Time to de-westernize
Yet only now the Global South, especially, will start to observe the full spectrum of the China-Russia play across the Eurasian sphere. Moscow and Beijing are deeply involved in a joint drive to de-westernize globalist governance, if not shatter it altogether.
Russia from now on will be even more meticulous in its institution-building, coalescing the Eurasia Economic Union (EAEU), the SCO and the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) – a Eurasian military alliance of select post-Soviet states – in a geopolitical context of irreversible institutional and normative divide between Russia and the West.
At the same time, the Greater Eurasia Partnership will be solidifying Russia as the ultimate Eurasian bridge, creating a common space across Eurasia which could even ignore vassalized Europe.
Meanwhile in real life, BRI, as much as the INSTC, will be increasingly plugged into the Black Sea (hello, Mariupol). And BRI itself may be even prone to re-evaluation in its emphasis of linking western China to western Europe’s shrinking industrial base.
There will be no point in privileging the northern BRI corridors – China-Mongolia-Russia via the Trans-Siberian, and the Eurasian land bridge via Kazakhstan – when you have Europe descending into medieval dementia.
BRI’s renewed focus will be on gaining access to irreplaceable commodities – and that means Russia – as well as securing essential supplies for Chinese production. Commodity-rich nations such as Kazakhstan, and many players in Africa, shall become the top future markets for China.
In a pre-Covid loop across Central Asia, one constantly heard that China builds plants and high-speed railways while Europe at best writes white papers. It can always get worse. The EU as occupied American territory is now descending, fast, from center of global power to the status of inconsequential peripheral player, a mere struggling market in the far periphery” of China’s “community of shared destiny.”



On Fri, Apr 8, 2022 at 6:54 AM karen aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
To be clear in my statement below, I’m not suggesting we do nothing, I’m suggesting just focusing on anti-war is a lost cause.

It’s time we recognize the many issues in relation to imperialism, poverty, racism etc., require structural system change. We can’t rely upon our elected officials to represent us.

The end of the petrodollar is here, the violence and chaos that we saw in Portland, O. will be seen across the nation when people take to the streets because they are starving.

On Apr 7, 2022, at 6:12 PM, karen aram <karenaram at hotmail.com<mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>> wrote:

Mort

An excellent article, one with which I couldn’t agree more. Only one statement is questionable,

"the politicians in the US are very, very concerned about what we may think – our words do have an effect, albeit limited one. That is the reason the US has no draft.”

I don’t believe our politicians are concerned about what we may think, that was the case in the sixties and seventies, but no longer. The invasion of Iraq, went ahead in spite of over 100,000 people in the streets protesting at the time. We’ve had how many wars and interventions since?

I’ve come to the conclusion that unless a Republican is in the WH, we won’t see a viable anti-war movement in the US.

Sorry, I know I’m not offering hope, but maybe I’m wrong.

On Apr 7, 2022, at 4:56 PM, Morton K. Brussel <mkb0029 at gmail.com<mailto:mkb0029 at gmail.com>> wrote:

This article gives one some hope. Meanwhile, so-called anti-war groups including CodePink, DemocracyNow(?)(disgusting treatment), fail to see the forest through the trees (or don’t want to). .

https://original.antiwar.com/john-v-walsh/2022/04/06/an-antidote-to-the-split-in-the-us-peace-movement-anti-interventionism/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/original.antiwar.com/john-v-walsh/2022/04/06/an-antidote-to-the-split-in-the-us-peace-movement-anti-interventionism/__;!!DZ3fjg!v-X0NH-ci7-SPP-X04Sg5f_m3d9H0BFZwUIMJldYydZkYfjklCM44eZihsyzht5WQw$>

Most of the  commentary for Walsh’s piece is also useful (on Antiwar.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/antiwar.com/__;!!DZ3fjg!v-X0NH-ci7-SPP-X04Sg5f_m3d9H0BFZwUIMJldYydZkYfjklCM44eZihsyTzo0wMg$>.)

—mkb


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