From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Sat Jan 1 15:03:34 2022 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 10:03:34 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?DK=3A_Deadline_to_Intro_House_Yemen_WP?= =?utf-8?q?R=3A_March_8=2C_Intl_Women=E2=80=99s_Day?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Please vote in the poll. It will take you 3.8 seconds. So far it's tied. The DNC hack adversaries understand now that this is the Final Showdown on ending the Saudi war in Yemen between the peace advocates and the DNC hacks. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/1/1/2072151/-Deadline-to-Intro-House-Yemen-War-Powers-Res-March-8-International-Women-s-Day Deadline to Intro House Yemen War Powers Res: March 8, International Women?s Day If we?re going to end unconstitutional U.S. participation in the Saudi regime war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen in 2022, then there must be a floor vote in the House on a Yemen War Powers Resolution by March 25, 2022, the seventh anniversary of the war. There?s no reason to do it any later. What are we waiting for? ?If not now, when?? There?s no information we need about this that we don?t already have. Are we waiting for the Saudi regime to blow up another school bus full of school children? Are we waiting for the Saudi regime to assassinate and dismember another Washington Post journalist who opposes the war? Are we waiting for the Saudi regime to starve more Yemeni children to death by blockading Yemeni ports? The more this issue drags into 2022, the more pressure there will be on House Democrats not to rock the boat. ?Don?t make no waves, don?t back no losers,? as they say in Chicago. The further this issue drags into 2022, the more the DNC hacks masquerading as peace advocates will say: ?Wah! Wah! You?re attacking Biden! It?s an election year! Democrats will lose the House and it will be all your fault!? Of course that?s cow manure. The DNC hacks masquerading as peace advocates will spew any nonsense. But we don?t want to study DNC hack apologetics for war no more. So let?s have the vote before March 25, 2022 and get it over with, so we don?t have to deal with this tawdry claim from DNC hacks that it?s our fault if Democrats lose the House because we wanted to end the Saudi war in Yemen, exactly as Democrats promised to Democrats in the Democratic Platform. To be certain of having a floor vote in the House by March 25, the Yemen War Powers Resolution must be introduced in the House at least two weeks before, because that?s the way the War Powers Resolution of 1973 works. There?s a waiting period after the bill is introduced before the sponsors can force a floor vote. 25-14 = 11. We need a hook on the calendar that?s before March 11. What?s wrong with March 8, International Women?s Day? ?Who will kill us?? as the Italians say. International Women?s Day links women in Yemen who are victims of this war to women in the United States, the United Kingdom and France whose governments are perpetuating this war. It?s principally the U.S., the UK, and France who are arming the Saudi regime. It?s the U.S., the UK and France who are blocking action on the UN Security Council to end this war. It?s the U.S., the UK, and France who are ensuring that international diplomacy to end the war is imprisoned in a Saudi regime-approved sandbox that never accomplishes anything in the absence of decisive Congressional action. Peace advocates across the United States need to know 100% for certain that we?re going to have this House floor vote in March so they can have the next two months to organize the Street Heat on House Democrats in March that?s going to win the vote. Every House Democrat voted before to end this war. But that?s when Trump was POTUS. Now we have Dem POTUS. We can expect the Administration to try twisting the arms of House Democrats against us, because that?s what every Administration always does. ?We?re the Administration, you?re not, yours not to reason why, yours just to follow our orders.? So we need Street Heat in March on the House Democrats who voted with us before so that they resist the Administration?s arm twisting. And Street Heat takes time to organize. Here?s how we lose. We wait until March. Then we say: ?Hey peace advocates across the United States! We have a floor vote in the House tomorrow! Go organize Street Heat on House Democrats!? If we?re going to try to do it like that, we might as well just concede defeat right now. Street Heat takes time to organize. Here?s how we win. We get ONE House Democrat to PUBLICLY pledge that if the House Yemen War Powers Resolution hasn?t been introduced by March 8, International Women?s Day, then that House Democrat will take responsibility for introducing the bill. Then the March House vote is publicly guaranteed. That will give peace advocates across the United States the certainty they need to organize the Street Heat for March. From the point of view of peace advocates organizing across the United States, it doesn?t matter that much who the bill sponsor will be. What matters for peace advocates across the United States is that?s it?s 100% certain that there will be a House floor vote to end the war in March. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r-szoke at illinois.edu Fri Jan 7 02:29:16 2022 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 02:29:16 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Corporate money in politics Message-ID: Corporations Donated Millions to Lawmakers Who Voted to Overturn Election Results One year after the Capitol riot, many businesses resumed corporate donations to lawmakers who voted against certifying the 2020 election. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/06/us/politics/congress-corporate-donations-2020-election-overturn.html?action=click&algo=bandit-all-surfaces_impression_cut_3&alpha=0.05&block=more_in_recirc&fellback=false&imp_id=689415017&impression_id=2754b561-6f5c-11ec-bbbf-bb55a96d2640&index=1&pgtype=Article&pool=more_in_pools%2Fpolitics®ion=footer&req_id=29841068&surface=eos-more-in&variant=0_bandit-all-surfaces_impression_cut_3 By Alan Rappeport, Madeleine Ngo and Kate Kelly NYT Jan. 6, 2022 WASHINGTON ? At its annual summit on the state of American business last January, officials from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce expressed disgust at the siege of the Capitol that had unfolded days earlier, and declared that lawmakers who discredited the 2020 election would no longer receive the organization?s financial backing. ?There are some members who, by their actions, will have forfeited the support of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. Period. Full stop,? Neil Bradley, the executive vice president and chief policy officer for the chamber, said at the time. Less than two months later, the nation?s biggest lobbying group reversed course. ?We do not believe it is appropriate to judge members of Congress solely based on their votes on the electoral certification,? Ashlee Rich Stephenson, the chamber?s senior political strategist, wrote in a memo. In the year since the riot at the Capitol, many corporate giants and trade groups have moved from making stern statements about the sanctity of democracy to reopening the financial spigot for lawmakers who undermined the election. Millions of dollars in donations continue to flow to what watchdog groups deride as the ?Sedition Caucus,? highlighting how quickly political realities shift in Washington. A report published this week by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, a nonprofit watchdog group, showed how corporate money continued to support most of the 147 lawmakers who voted to overturn the election results. In the last year, 717 companies and industry groups gave more than $18 million to 143 of those lawmakers. Businesses that pledged to stop or pause their donations to those lawmakers have since given nearly $2.4 million directly to their campaigns or leadership political action committees, according to CREW. ??? < continues > ?? From r-szoke at illinois.edu Fri Jan 7 02:29:16 2022 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 02:29:16 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Corporate money in politics Message-ID: Corporations Donated Millions to Lawmakers Who Voted to Overturn Election Results One year after the Capitol riot, many businesses resumed corporate donations to lawmakers who voted against certifying the 2020 election. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/06/us/politics/congress-corporate-donations-2020-election-overturn.html?action=click&algo=bandit-all-surfaces_impression_cut_3&alpha=0.05&block=more_in_recirc&fellback=false&imp_id=689415017&impression_id=2754b561-6f5c-11ec-bbbf-bb55a96d2640&index=1&pgtype=Article&pool=more_in_pools%2Fpolitics®ion=footer&req_id=29841068&surface=eos-more-in&variant=0_bandit-all-surfaces_impression_cut_3 By Alan Rappeport, Madeleine Ngo and Kate Kelly NYT Jan. 6, 2022 WASHINGTON ? At its annual summit on the state of American business last January, officials from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce expressed disgust at the siege of the Capitol that had unfolded days earlier, and declared that lawmakers who discredited the 2020 election would no longer receive the organization?s financial backing. ?There are some members who, by their actions, will have forfeited the support of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. Period. Full stop,? Neil Bradley, the executive vice president and chief policy officer for the chamber, said at the time. Less than two months later, the nation?s biggest lobbying group reversed course. ?We do not believe it is appropriate to judge members of Congress solely based on their votes on the electoral certification,? Ashlee Rich Stephenson, the chamber?s senior political strategist, wrote in a memo. In the year since the riot at the Capitol, many corporate giants and trade groups have moved from making stern statements about the sanctity of democracy to reopening the financial spigot for lawmakers who undermined the election. Millions of dollars in donations continue to flow to what watchdog groups deride as the ?Sedition Caucus,? highlighting how quickly political realities shift in Washington. A report published this week by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, a nonprofit watchdog group, showed how corporate money continued to support most of the 147 lawmakers who voted to overturn the election results. In the last year, 717 companies and industry groups gave more than $18 million to 143 of those lawmakers. Businesses that pledged to stop or pause their donations to those lawmakers have since given nearly $2.4 million directly to their campaigns or leadership political action committees, according to CREW. ??? < continues > ?? From jbn at forestfield.org Fri Jan 7 23:22:06 2022 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 17:22:06 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Recommended videos for AWARE on the Air, News from Neptune, and Labor's World View TV Message-ID: <4e26083b-108c-34c8-6631-5a5a26b040c0@forestfield.org> Here are the videos I recommended to run during AWARE on the Air, News from Neptune, and Labor's World View TV. As a reminder: If anyone else has anything to run, please feel free to get your video pointers to UPTV (UPTV at urbanaillinois.us). I have continued to ask UPTV to prioritize AWARE members video pointers over mine for AWARE on the Air, Carl Estabrook & David Green's video pointers over mine for News from Neptune, and David Johnson's video pointers over mine for Labor's World View TV. Enjoy. -J News from Neptune & AWARE on the Air ================================================== Empire Files https://youtube.com/watch?v=Vwb2OlqTO0M -- (1h 36m 49) Killing Gaza RT https://youtube.com/watch?v=CNywSDMAhHM (4m 14s) Secret Drone Strike Archives: Pentagon Hid THOUSANDS of Civilian Deaths https://youtube.com/watch?v=LAqKB2xSC7A (8m 1s) -- Why some Americans no longer believe in Democracy https://youtube.com/watch?v=wVMq_OMC5Sw (7m 11s) -- Biden's promises that America is still waiting for https://youtube.com/watch?v=Bb5XVSUNuOc (25m 40s) -- Islamophobia, Race and Global Politics Glenn Greenwald https://youtube.com/watch?v=oT4KH4NhekE (27m 5s) -- The Semi-Inside Story of Why Trump Refused to Pardon Snowden and Assange Labor's World View TV ================================================== BreakThrough TV https://youtube.com/watch?v=MVWfVfBA2Ys -- (9m 55s) WEF Billionaires Say They?ll ?Save? Detroit, Organizers Say It?s a Trojan Horse CGTN https://youtube.com/watch?v=VRo3IhWkdzo -- (17m 51s) The Point - U.S. and modern slavery RT https://youtube.com/watch?v=oAWvb8yG50U (1m) It?s legal to Employ Children in Bolivia https://youtube.com/watch?v=wVMq_OMC5Sw (7m 11s) -- Biden's promises that America is still waiting for https://youtube.com/watch?v=jfsDlDYTfKY (27m 50s) -- Renegade Inc _ The Real Cost of the Gig Economy More Perfect Union https://youtube.com/watch?v=UwJ87gNHwU0 (6m 9s) -- Arizona Starbucks Workers EXPOSE Union-Busting Tactics https://youtube.com/watch?v=Fp2Ey0H7OUE (10m 42s) -- Is Homer Simpson's Middle Class American Dream Still Possible Today _ The Class Room From mkb3 at icloud.com Sat Jan 8 01:40:42 2022 From: mkb3 at icloud.com (Morton K. Brussel) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 19:40:42 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Why_the_left_is_so_weak=E2=80=A6?= Message-ID: From an article in Le Monde diplomatique: https://mondediplo.com/2022/01/01left-lose I hope you can read it without subscribing. It?s almost worth the subscription, however. ?mkb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkb3 at icloud.com Mon Jan 10 03:39:03 2022 From: mkb3 at icloud.com (Morton K. Brussel) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 21:39:03 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The most important issue of the day Message-ID: <13181478-74F1-4FEC-8C6C-5563BB09E375@icloud.com> I agree with what Doctorow is suggesting should probably happen, this despite what has been broadast on the corporate news: https://original.antiwar.com/Gilbert_Doctorow/2022/01/07/how-far-can-diplomacy-go-awaiting-the-us-russian-talks-in-geneva-on-january-10/ Hold your breaths. ?mkb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r-szoke at illinois.edu Fri Jan 14 02:47:22 2022 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 02:47:22 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Dangerous Ideas at UIUC ? Message-ID: Dangerous Ideas on Campus Virtual Book Launch 4 p.m. Thursday, Feb. 3, via Zoom. In 1960, University of Illinois professor Leo Koch wrote a public letter condoning premarital sex. He was fired. Four years later, a professor named Revilo Oliver made white supremacist remarks and claimed there was a massive communist conspiracy. He kept his job. Matthew C. Ehrlich revisits the Koch and Oliver cases to look at free speech, the legacy of the 1960s, and debates over sex and politics on campus. Register here. From r-szoke at illinois.edu Fri Jan 14 02:47:22 2022 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 02:47:22 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Dangerous Ideas at UIUC ? Message-ID: Dangerous Ideas on Campus Virtual Book Launch 4 p.m. Thursday, Feb. 3, via Zoom. In 1960, University of Illinois professor Leo Koch wrote a public letter condoning premarital sex. He was fired. Four years later, a professor named Revilo Oliver made white supremacist remarks and claimed there was a massive communist conspiracy. He kept his job. Matthew C. Ehrlich revisits the Koch and Oliver cases to look at free speech, the legacy of the 1960s, and debates over sex and politics on campus. Register here. From r-szoke at illinois.edu Fri Jan 14 02:54:26 2022 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 02:54:26 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Dangerous Ideas at UIUC ? Surely not ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Event TypeLectureSponsorUniversity of Illinois Press, UIUC College of LASVirtualwifi eventDate Feb 3, 2022 4:00 pm RegistrationRegistrationViews94 Join Matthew C. Ehrlich and Ryan Ross for a virtual event celebrating the release of Dangerous Ideas on Campus: Sex, Conspiracy, and Academic Freedom in the Age of JFK on February 3 at 4pm CT. Register here: https://bit.ly/EhrlichEvent ________________________________________ From: Szoke, Ron Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 8:47 PM To: peace-discuss; peace-discuss at anti-war.net Subject: Dangerous Ideas at UIUC ? Dangerous Ideas on Campus Virtual Book Launch 4 p.m. Thursday, Feb. 3, via Zoom. In 1960, University of Illinois professor Leo Koch wrote a public letter condoning premarital sex. He was fired. Four years later, a professor named Revilo Oliver made white supremacist remarks and claimed there was a massive communist conspiracy. He kept his job. Matthew C. Ehrlich revisits the Koch and Oliver cases to look at free speech, the legacy of the 1960s, and debates over sex and politics on campus. Register here. From r-szoke at illinois.edu Fri Jan 14 02:54:26 2022 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 02:54:26 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Dangerous Ideas at UIUC ? Surely not ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Event TypeLectureSponsorUniversity of Illinois Press, UIUC College of LASVirtualwifi eventDate Feb 3, 2022 4:00 pm RegistrationRegistrationViews94 Join Matthew C. Ehrlich and Ryan Ross for a virtual event celebrating the release of Dangerous Ideas on Campus: Sex, Conspiracy, and Academic Freedom in the Age of JFK on February 3 at 4pm CT. Register here: https://bit.ly/EhrlichEvent ________________________________________ From: Szoke, Ron Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 8:47 PM To: peace-discuss; peace-discuss at anti-war.net Subject: Dangerous Ideas at UIUC ? Dangerous Ideas on Campus Virtual Book Launch 4 p.m. Thursday, Feb. 3, via Zoom. In 1960, University of Illinois professor Leo Koch wrote a public letter condoning premarital sex. He was fired. Four years later, a professor named Revilo Oliver made white supremacist remarks and claimed there was a massive communist conspiracy. He kept his job. Matthew C. Ehrlich revisits the Koch and Oliver cases to look at free speech, the legacy of the 1960s, and debates over sex and politics on campus. Register here. From mkb3 at icloud.com Fri Jan 14 04:42:14 2022 From: mkb3 at icloud.com (Morton K. Brussel) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 22:42:14 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: [wbw-discussion] Read Glen Ford References: Message-ID: About Glen Ford, who we miss. He died in July,, 2021. > Begin forwarded message: > > From: David Swanson > Subject: [wbw-discussion] Read Glen Ford > Date: January 12, 2022 at 12:01:03 PM CST > To: David Swanson > > Read Glen Ford > > > By David Swanson > https://davidswanson.org/read-glen-ford/ > Someone asked me the other day for advice on collecting the best essays of the past 20 years. I recommended the new collection of Glen Ford?s called The Black Agenda . I recommend it to everyone ? including people who are not black. I?m not black. > > Glen Ford was my friend and an ally in the struggles for peace and justice. He was a leader and a brilliant and an always reliable speaker, writer, and organizer on anti-racism, anti-oligarchy, anti-poverty, and anti-war work. He was a key part of efforts to impeach George W. Bush (whose record we should all read Glen?s book to be reminded of it seems). > > This book is worthwhile just for the preface by Margaret Kimberley and the autobiographical introduction by Glen. I?ve considered Glen central to U.S. activism since about 2000, which seems a long time to me, yet his incredible saga, recounted in his introduction, actually breaks off just about when I met him. The essays, however, are from the past 20 years > > Glen Ford died in July 2021. He was executive director of Black Agenda Report and was previously co-founder of BlackCommentator.com. He had decades of experience in written media, radio, and television. He launched influential programming such as America?s Black Forum, the first nationally syndicated Black news interview program on commercial television, and Rap It Up. > > Black Lives Matter drew on what Glen had been saying and writing for decades ? even if leaders of Black Lives Matter could receive his powerful criticism when they eliminated foreign policy from U.S. politics. Prison abolitionists have learned and will go on learning from Glen. > > You shouldn?t read these essays because Glen was a great friend and ally. But you should understand that his acerbic denunciations of some relatively good people came from someone who was a great organizer at the same time as being a fearlessly honest truthteller. I don?t think I ever quarreled with Glen. I think I probably offended him by suggesting that we?d have been better off without the U.S. Civil War if the very same thing could have been done nonviolently (as it was in much of the world). But Glen didn?t have time to take offense. He just changed the subject. > > Of course the big sticking point for millions of people (albeit a shrinking crowd) will be that Glen goes after both Republicans and Democrats. That ought to go without saying, given that I?ve already indicated his honesty. That it doesn?t go without saying is one reason we need to read Glen. > > His book opens with an unmatched takedown of the holiday of Thanksgiving, and rolls right through every culturally monumentalized bit of white supremacy. Yet, Glen saves a great deal of his analysis for the damage done by the Black Misleadership Class, by the Congressional Black Caucus, and by that More Effective Evil Barack Obama (I?m using Glen?s vocabulary). Glen actually rejected harm he?d done to Cory Booker?s political campaigns when he saw how much slicker and more destructive Obama was capable of being. > > In this collection we have Bush, Cheney, Iraq, Katrina, and all the now-rehabilitated evil of the gangs that Glen Ford compared to Pirates. And we have the Obama years, during which Glen lamented that black voters had become more in favor of foreign wars and civil liberties abuses and secret agencies than white voters for the first time ever. We even have Trump and Biden in this feast of Ford essays. > > Glen wrote with unmatched erudition and knowledge of mass-media, at least unmatched among those willing to look as directly at the horrors before us as he was. He goes after those who would vote against Bernie. He goes after the outrageous shortcomings of Bernie. He goes after Facebook. Now outrage was safe. From here on out there will be no new injustice that I won?t wish I had a Glen Ford article about. Let?s make the most use possible of those we have. > > ## > > > -- > David Swanson is an author, activist, journalist, and radio host. He is executive director of WorldBeyondWar.org and campaign coordinator for RootsAction.org . Swanson's books include War Is A Lie . He blogs at DavidSwanson.org and WarIsACrime.org . He hosts Talk World Radio . He is a Nobel Peace Prize nominee, and U.S. Peace Prize recipient. Longer bio and photos and videos here . Follow him on Twitter: @davidcnswanson and FaceBook , and sign up for: Activist alerts . Articles . David Swanson news . World Beyond War news . Charlottesville news . Connect with WBW: > > > -- > This is a listserve to discuss the building of a global nonviolent movement to end war and establish a just and sustainable peace. > > Participants on this list must be respectful toward each other, not advocate violence, and not promote electoral candidates. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "WBW discussion" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to wbw-discussion+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com . > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wbw-discussion/CAF1z47LntxQw-RdUKj-iqh0xe8c3SaOPnfNn9X8zQN3MtSXqZw%40mail.gmail.com . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Sun Jan 16 14:41:33 2022 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 09:41:33 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Fwd=3A_Emily=E2=80=99s_List_Stands_by_?= =?utf-8?q?the_Filibuster?= In-Reply-To: References: <3C.85.28015.D0814E16@asv11mtam002.ngpweb.com> Message-ID: Check this out. They're isolating the responsibility of Emily's List, a key asset of the corporatist-militarist wing of the Democratic Party. This is getting a lot of play on Twitter. ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Eva Putzova Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 8:05 AM Subject: Emily?s List Stands by the Filibuster To: Robert Naiman Dear Robert, On Friday, I joined 70+ women active in Arizona?s politics crafting and signing *a letter addressed to Emily?s List* . As the top contributor to Senator Sinema, Emily?s List has a moral obligation to hold the Senator accountable for her positions or risk losing any residue of relevance it still has. Last year in February, Senator Sinema gave a big F**ck Off to working people by voting down the minimum wage increase and then in April, showed them an actual F**ck Off ring on her Instagram. Since, when not dining with wealthy donors in London or doing a paid ?internship? at a winery in California, she devoted her time to obstructing every major policy that would help everyday people by protecting the Jim Crow filibuster and opposing several key elements of the Build Back Better bill. Senator Sinema has demonstrated that she cares more about protecting the interests of her corporate donors rather than democracy and voters who elected her. After all of this, Emily?s List is still standing by her. As of now, their Board or leadership have not responded to the letter we sent at all (and I know because I keep refreshing my inbox every 10 minutes not to miss it!). The only activity we have seen was that after Twitter exploded with people?s anger towards Emily?s List, they quietly removed Sinema?s op-ed defending the filibuster from their website. Emily?s List is a tool of the corporate machine, hiding behind identity politics taking advantage of mostly women donors who don?t know that the organization will not support progressive women who challenge the status quo and their mission to support ?pro-choice Democratic women? is a big fat lie. If we are going to change the political landscape, we must build strong progressive institutions that will not turn into corporate puppets. We can do it only if grassroots donors believe in our work. With Catch Fire, we want to do just that. The only way to stay connected to the movement is to be funded by grassroots. Steven and I have a big goal for January: we want to raise $10,000 by the end of the month. That?s what we need every month to hire a permanent staffer and help the organization grow. *Can you commit to $50 a month to help us get there? Or make a one contribution of $600 for the entire year.* As always, I?m available to talk on the phone anytime. Call me at 928-225-0170. Eva Putzova Join our fight! We are laying the groundwork for progressives to catch fire early and have the best chance to succeed. BECOME A MEMBER ------------------------------ catchfiremovement.org | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram Email us: us at catchfiremovement.org PO Box 1796 Flagstaff, AZ 86002 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Sun Jan 16 21:55:38 2022 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 15:55:38 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Interesting article from Lee Camp on UBI Message-ID: <1abfdbd0-d68b-75bb-d54c-37d09774764e@forestfield.org> https://www.rt.com/op-ed/546146-ending-poverty-universal-income/ https://scheerpost.com/2022/01/11/lee-camp-we-know-the-silver-bullet-to-ending-poverty-and-destitution-but-choose-not-to-use-it/ This article begins: > Here?s how the world should operate in simple terms: A certain country or region > or city or township or Hobbit hole tries something in order to help their society > or group or hovel ? if it works, other places then do it. If it doesn?t work, > other places don?t do it. It?s like when you were a kid and you saw your brother > slide down the banister and rack himself on the newel post ? You then thought, > ?Maybe that activity is not for me.? But if he didn?t nail himself in the jewels, > you probably thought, ?I think I?ll try that.? > > That?s how the United States government should work, but it doesn?t. For-profit > healthcare, corporate personhood, the drug war, funding terrorists overseas that > we call ?moderate rebels,? etc. ? all of these things have been tried, they > fu***n? suck every time, and we keep doing them. The U.S. continually racks itself > on the newel post all day long and then responds, ?I think I?ll try that again.? > > But the reverse should be true also ? if a city or country anywhere in the world > tries something and it works great, we should do it. Pandemic reversing > improvements in wealth inequality, World Bank says Pandemic reversing improvements > in wealth inequality, World Bank says READ MORE: Pandemic reversing improvements > in wealth inequality, World Bank says > > This brings me to Universal Basic Income: everybody receiving money from a > government simply for being a citizen, no questions asked. It?s high time we try > it in the US and see whether it works. Oh wait, I just remembered ? it?s been > tried countless times and worked every damn time[1]. How do I know that? ?Reading[2]. > > As Rutger Bregman details in his book ?Utopia For Realists[3],? UBI has been tried > many times ? in Canada, Alaska, Africa, the US, Europe, and more. Even backwards > lawless lands like North Carolina have experimented with it. > > There was a study[4] in Britain where 13 men who had lived on the streets for years > were given ?3,000 each (about $4,500 at the time). Did they use it for hundreds of > pricey almond milk lattes, or giant bags of crack, or maybe just wad it up into > balls and wipe themselves with them? Nope, turns out they didn?t do any of those > things. Eighteen months after receiving the money, over half were no longer > homeless, and all of them had improved their lives significantly. > > As Bregman noted, ?Even The Economist had to conclude that ?the most efficient way > to spend money on the homeless might be to give it to them.?? [1] https://www.fastcompany.com/90706938/what-happened-when-people-in-this-upstate-new-york-town-started-getting-monthly-500-checks?partner=rss&utm_campaign=rss+fastcompany&utm_content=rss&utm_medium=feed&utm_source=rss [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/21/how-one-universal-basic-income-experiment-is-helping-the-homeless.html [3] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40876575-utopia-for-realists [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/free-money-might-be-the-best-way-to-end-poverty/2013/12/29/679c8344-5ec8-11e3-95c2-13623eb2b0e1_story.html [5] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40876575-utopia-for-realists [6] https://www.economist.com/britain/2010/11/04/cutting-out-the-middle-men From r-szoke at illinois.edu Tue Jan 18 06:40:24 2022 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 06:40:24 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Quotations & Quotationism Message-ID: Notes on picking cherries & nits: George Seldes, compiler, The Great Quotations (Lyle Stuart, 1960, 893 pages) [Arranged by author] A very different book with the same compiler & title: The Great Quotations (Pocket Books, 1967, 1086 pages) [Arranged by topic] See also: George Seldes, compiler, The Great Thoughts (Ballantine Books, 1985, 487 pages [Arranged by author] Contain hundreds of quotations that you can cherry-pick to support your views ? whatever they may be ? or to nit-pick, undermine & rebut anyone else?s views. To keep in mind: All quotations are always ?out of context.? Every context has a context. In the dying world I come from, quotation is a national vice. ? Evelyn Waugh ? RSz. 011722 From r-szoke at illinois.edu Tue Jan 18 06:40:24 2022 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 06:40:24 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Quotations & Quotationism Message-ID: Notes on picking cherries & nits: George Seldes, compiler, The Great Quotations (Lyle Stuart, 1960, 893 pages) [Arranged by author] A very different book with the same compiler & title: The Great Quotations (Pocket Books, 1967, 1086 pages) [Arranged by topic] See also: George Seldes, compiler, The Great Thoughts (Ballantine Books, 1985, 487 pages [Arranged by author] Contain hundreds of quotations that you can cherry-pick to support your views ? whatever they may be ? or to nit-pick, undermine & rebut anyone else?s views. To keep in mind: All quotations are always ?out of context.? Every context has a context. In the dying world I come from, quotation is a national vice. ? Evelyn Waugh ? RSz. 011722 From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Sat Jan 22 18:09:32 2022 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 13:09:32 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Dr. Shireen calls out Senator Murphy on Saudi airstrikes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Prominent Yemeni-American peace advocate Dr. Shireen Al-Adeimi is calling out Senator Murphy on Twitter for condemning the latest Saudi airstrikes on Yemeni civilians while failing to acknowledge his own complicity in those airstrikes because he gave away his leverage over the Biden Administration for free when he voted for Biden's Saudi arms deal, contrary to his promise earlier in the year to oppose all Saudi weapons deals. Please amplify! https://twitter.com/shireen818/status/1484716150592262149 [image: image.png] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 148948 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Mon Jan 24 02:36:20 2022 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2022 20:36:20 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Julian Assange coverage on "Mother of All Talkshows" Message-ID: <7314e9b6-2206-9047-bbd9-25243d4ad98f@forestfield.org> 2022-01-23 Mother of All Talkshows episode https://youtube.com/watch?v=bg5ACBfvby4 Dr. Deepa Driver on Julian Assange's trial announcement tomorrow (2022-01-24) where we'll learn if Assange will be allowed to appeal. Covered from 2h 35m 34s to 2h 46m 6s. I'm sure that RT will have coverage of the event; RT is one of very few outlets that do cover Assange and cover his plight well. You'll recall that RT's RUPTLY service was there on-site to cover his forcible expulsion from the Ecuadorian embassy and transfer to prison. He now sits in Belmarsh prison, in poor health and having recently had a stroke, awaiting tomorrow's announcement. RT https://youtube.com/channel/UCpwvZwUam-URkxB7g4USKpg RT UK https://youtube.com/channel/UC_ab7FFA2ACk2yTHgNan8lQ From stuartnlevy at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 14:03:57 2022 From: stuartnlevy at gmail.com (Stuart Levy) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 08:03:57 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar Message-ID: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to Ukraine. US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. At *3PM Central Time *today, Jan. 25th, *CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: * *Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 * *Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. *Larry Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. *After ending his military career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War* and has been a vocal opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before diplomacy. /*RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! *//* */ *The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the United States and Russia.* We must immediately demand that NATO, the U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made with Russia, *including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO.* RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. *They have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in Eastern Ukraine. ** * Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" to Russia. *NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly not be expanding to include Ukraine. * Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have done, it has violatedthe agreements that brought the original Cold War to an end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to expand eastward, ithas added 11 member countries that were once either Soviet republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. *Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time to speak out is now! * *Join the webinar* on the crisis in Ukraineand *tell Congress not to let Biden send troops to Eastern Europe! * Towards peace,*/ /**/Medea and the entire CODEPINK team://Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, Carley, Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie /* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 17:19:33 2022 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 12:19:33 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: If you believe that the United States is going to war with Russia over Ukraine, please raise your hand. This is not how the U.S. Empire works. Did the U.S. go to war with Russia over Syria? If the U.S. wasn't willing to go to war with Russia over Syria, why would the U.S. be willing to go to war with Russia over Ukraine? This is all Blob hype in the media to pressure Biden to be more aggressive. But whatever Biden does, it's not going to be war with Russia. Biden is not insane. They'll send some more military stuff, they'll deploy a few thousand more troops to NATO countries in Eastern Europe, they'll impose more economic sanctions on Russia, though not any that would badly hurt the German economy, which means that they're not going to get carried away. Do you remember in grade school, when they said: "Pick on someone your own size"? That's something the U.S. Empire NEVER does. Reagan talked tough on the Soviet Union. Then he invaded Grenada, a country the size of Champaign-Urbana. Here's why this matters. There is an "emergency" Codepink webinar today at 8pm ET on the U.S.-Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. How many people are going to go to both? Which is the real emergency, the Blob media hype that can never result in a war with Russia because the people running the U.S. are not insane, or Yemeni children starving to death because the U.S. is helping the Saudi regime blockade Yemen, in violation of Article I of the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of 1973? Here is the real emergency Codepink webinar today for the people who don't want to chase Shiny Objects in the Blob-dominated U.S. media: "Please join CODEPINK for #YemenCan'tWait Emergency On-Line Action with a briefing from Yemenis. Tues., Jan. 25, 5 PM (PT), 8 PM (ET) RSVP HERE. The Saudi-UAE coalition recently attacked Yemen's communication infrastructure, leaving all of Yemen without connection to the internet. Initial reports of Saudi-led strikes have high civilian casualties. People in the U.S. need to take action now. Join us on January 25 at 8PM ET to engage on social media and call our members of Congress. Attendees will be briefed on the situation on the ground at the beginning & given all the tools and language for taking action. Please RSVP and invite friends. We need all hands on deck." On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:04 AM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible > deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to > Ukraine. > > US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for > Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. > > At *3PM Central Time *today, Jan. 25th, > > *CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: * > > *Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 > * > > *Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin > and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. *Larry > Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of > staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. *After ending his military > career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War* and has been a vocal > opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before diplomacy. > > *RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! > * > > *The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 > international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result > in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the > United States and Russia.* We must immediately demand that NATO, the > U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated > solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made > with Russia, *including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a member > of NATO.* > > RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in > Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over > Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. > > Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new > escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have > encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk > II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. *They > have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in > Eastern Ukraine. * > > Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its borders, > and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, when > Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO membership, > President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" to Russia. > > *NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the > dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly > not be expanding to include Ukraine. * > > Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have done, > it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold War to an > end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to expand > eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once either Soviet > republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. > > *Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time to > speak out is now! * > > *Join the webinar* > on the crisis in Ukraine and *tell Congress not to let Biden send troops > to Eastern Europe! > * > > Towards peace, > > *Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, Carley, > Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, > Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie * > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuartnlevy at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 17:25:15 2022 From: stuartnlevy at gmail.com (Stuart Levy) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:25:15 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6f7fa400-5c88-cfbd-55e8-2551c1e049f9@gmail.com> Yes.?? I'm very worried about it, too.?? I'm sure a lot of us are but don't have the regular outlet we used to have to share it with each other.??? I have been seeing and reading a number of postings from you, but don't generally have anything to say in response -- so I don't know if I'm getting all you send, but some. NPR keeps bringing on neocon commentators to soberly tell us how aggressive Russia is, and how we need to push the conflict to the brink so that the Russians will back down.?? And yesterday's Chicago Sun-Times noted a bunch of Illinois Democratic politicians, Durbin and a bunch of US Reps (though *not* Jan Schakowsky, fortunately) expressing their support for Ukraine, which of course means support for US economic/military/whatever threatening action against Russia. On 1/25/22 09:27, karen aram wrote: > Thank you Stuart, > > I?ve been waiting for someone other than myself, to recognize the > dangers inherent in what is taking place in Ukraine. I haven?t been > posting on the Peace List given, I don?t know that my postings have > been going through given I see almost no feedback nor postings from > others. Even Facebook friends seem to not notice how critical this > situation is with US nuclear missiles being spread across Eastern > Europe, and Nato on the borders of Russia. > > I?m pleased to see "Code Pink,? currently the only anti-war group in > the US showing concern, and now acting on the issue, as well as yourself. > > This is the most serious issue today, more dangerous even than the > "Cuban Missile Crisis," according to some, with the potential for WW3. > > Karen Aram > > >> On Jan 25, 2022, at 8:03 AM, Stuart Levy via Peace >> wrote: >> >> Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible >> deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been >> delivered to Ukraine. >> >> US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for >> Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. >> >> At *3PM Central Time *today, Jan. 25th, *CODE PINK will hold an >> emergency webinar: >> >> * >> >> *Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 >> * >> >> *Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea >> Benjamin and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 >> PM Central time. *Larry Wilkerson is a professor at the College >> of William & Mary and was chief of staff to U.S Secretary of >> State Colin Powell. *After ending his military career, Wilkerson >> publicly criticized the Iraq War* and has been a vocal opponent >> of U.S. policies that put militarism before diplomacy. >> >> /*RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! >> *//* >> */ >> *The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some >> 40,000 international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that >> could easily result in war between the world?s two most heavily >> armed nuclear states ? the United States and Russia.* We must >> immediately demand that NATO, the U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue >> vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated solution. There is every >> reason to believe that a compromise can be made with Russia, >> *including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a member of >> NATO.* >> >> RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your >> representatives in Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not >> to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. Tell Congress that you >> want negotiations, not escalation. >> >> Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new >> escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and >> NATO have encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its >> obligations under Minsk II, and to instead reassert absolute >> sovereignty over the Donbas region. *They have supplied powerful >> weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in Eastern Ukraine. ** >> * >> Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its >> borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. >> In 2008, when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied >> for NATO membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership >> "a direct threat" to Russia. *NATO is a military alliance that >> should have dissolved with the dissolution of the Soviet Union >> and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly not be expanding to >> include Ukraine. >> >> * >> >> Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should >> have done, it has violatedthe agreements that brought the >> original Cold War to an end and reunified Germany. Instead of >> keeping its promise not to expand eastward, ithas added 11 member >> countries that were once either Soviet republics or members of >> the Warsaw Pact. >> >> *Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. >> The time to speak out is now! * >> >> *Join the webinar* >> on the >> crisis in Ukraineand *tell Congress not to let Biden send troops >> to Eastern Europe! >> * >> >> Towards peace,*/ >> /**/Medea and the entire CODEPINK team://Alice, Allison, Ann, >> Ariel, Carley, Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, >> Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, >> Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie >> /* >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbw292002 at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 17:49:10 2022 From: jbw292002 at gmail.com (John W.) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:49:10 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: Absolutely correct. I love the schoolyard slogan, which is so absolutely a propos to the way our nation behaves (and Russia, and China). And it's good practical advice. NEVER pick on someone your own size!! Even small countries like Viet Nam and Afghanistan have mired us down and caused us much blood and treasure. On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 11:20 AM Robert Naiman via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: If you believe that the United States is going to war with Russia over > Ukraine, please raise your hand. > > This is not how the U.S. Empire works. Did the U.S. go to war with Russia > over Syria? If the U.S. wasn't willing to go to war with Russia over Syria, > why would the U.S. be willing to go to war with Russia over Ukraine? This > is all Blob hype in the media to pressure Biden to be more aggressive. But > whatever Biden does, it's not going to be war with Russia. Biden is not > insane. They'll send some more military stuff, they'll deploy a few > thousand more troops to NATO countries in Eastern Europe, they'll impose > more economic sanctions on Russia, though not any that would badly hurt the > German economy, which means that they're not going to get carried away. > > Do you remember in grade school, when they said: "Pick on someone your own > size"? That's something the U.S. Empire NEVER does. Reagan talked tough on > the Soviet Union. Then he invaded Grenada, a country the size of > Champaign-Urbana. > > Here's why this matters. There is an "emergency" Codepink webinar today at > 8pm ET on the U.S.-Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. How > many people are going to go to both? Which is the real emergency, the Blob > media hype that can never result in a war with Russia because the people > running the U.S. are not insane, or Yemeni children starving to death > because the U.S. is helping the Saudi regime blockade Yemen, in violation > of Article I of the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of > 1973? > > Here is the real emergency Codepink webinar today for the people who don't > want to chase Shiny Objects in the Blob-dominated U.S. media: > > "Please join CODEPINK for #YemenCan'tWait Emergency On-Line Action with a > briefing from Yemenis. > Tues., Jan. 25, 5 PM (PT), 8 PM (ET) > RSVP HERE. > The Saudi-UAE coalition recently attacked Yemen's communication > infrastructure, leaving all of Yemen without connection to the internet. > Initial reports of Saudi-led strikes have high civilian casualties. People > in the U.S. need to take action now. Join us on January 25 at 8PM ET to > engage on social media and call our members of Congress. Attendees will be > briefed on the situation on the ground at the beginning & given all the > tools and language for taking action. Please RSVP and invite friends. We > need all hands on deck." > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:04 AM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible >> deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to >> Ukraine. >> >> US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for >> Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. >> >> At *3PM Central Time *today, Jan. 25th, >> >> *CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: * >> >> *Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 >> * >> >> *Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin >> and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. *Larry >> Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of >> staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. *After ending his military >> career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War* and has been a vocal >> opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before diplomacy. >> >> *RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! >> * >> >> *The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 >> international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result >> in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the >> United States and Russia.* We must immediately demand that NATO, the >> U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated >> solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made >> with Russia, *including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a >> member of NATO.* >> >> RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in >> Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over >> Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. >> >> Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new >> escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have >> encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk >> II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. *They >> have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in >> Eastern Ukraine. * >> >> Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its >> borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, >> when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO >> membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" >> to Russia. >> >> *NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the >> dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly >> not be expanding to include Ukraine. * >> >> Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have done, >> it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold War to an >> end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to expand >> eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once either Soviet >> republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. >> >> *Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time >> to speak out is now! * >> >> *Join the webinar* >> on the crisis in Ukraine and *tell Congress not to let Biden send troops >> to Eastern Europe! >> * >> >> Towards peace, >> >> *Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, Carley, >> Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, >> Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie * >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 18:46:52 2022 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 13:46:52 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: <6f7fa400-5c88-cfbd-55e8-2551c1e049f9@gmail.com> References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> <6f7fa400-5c88-cfbd-55e8-2551c1e049f9@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am not in favor of what the U.S. has been doing in Ukraine, by any stretch of the imagination. If people want to organize against that, I'm totally for it. But it's irresponsible scaremongering to say that there's a danger that the U.S. is going to war with Russia over Ukraine, when there is no such danger, unless by "war" one means what the U.S. is already doing, in which case it's not a danger, it's what's already the case. Activist resources are finite, I'm sorry to say. This scaremongering about the danger of war with Russia is a distraction. We have a real possibility of ending unconstitutional U.S. participation in the Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen with floor votes in Congress in the next two months. Durbin and Duckworth could help a great deal with that; they have been in the more progressive half of Senate Democrats on this issue; on the last vote the Senate, they were better than Chris Murphy, who was historically a champion on the issue. Why not focus on what we have a chance to change? There is no danger of war with Russia, and there is little prospect of significant improvement in relations with Russia over and above whatever is necessary to avoid war, which the U.S. will do no matter what we say, because the people running the U.S. are not totally insane. Let's focus on what we can do something about in order to save the most lives. On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 12:25 PM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > Yes. I'm very worried about it, too. I'm sure a lot of us are but > don't have the regular outlet we used to have to share it with each > other. I have been seeing and reading a number of postings from you, but > don't generally have anything to say in response -- so I don't know if I'm > getting all you send, but some. > > NPR keeps bringing on neocon commentators to soberly tell us how > aggressive Russia is, and how we need to push the conflict to the brink so > that the Russians will back down. And yesterday's Chicago Sun-Times noted > a bunch of Illinois Democratic politicians, Durbin and a bunch of US Reps > (though *not* Jan Schakowsky, fortunately) expressing their support for > Ukraine, which of course means support for US economic/military/whatever > threatening action against Russia. > > On 1/25/22 09:27, karen aram wrote: > > Thank you Stuart, > > I?ve been waiting for someone other than myself, to recognize the dangers > inherent in what is taking place in Ukraine. I haven?t been posting on the > Peace List given, I don?t know that my postings have been going through > given I see almost no feedback nor postings from others. Even Facebook > friends seem to not notice how critical this situation is with US nuclear > missiles being spread across Eastern Europe, and Nato on the borders of > Russia. > > I?m pleased to see "Code Pink,? currently the only anti-war group in the > US showing concern, and now acting on the issue, as well as yourself. > > This is the most serious issue today, more dangerous even than the "Cuban > Missile Crisis," according to some, with the potential for WW3. > > Karen Aram > > > On Jan 25, 2022, at 8:03 AM, Stuart Levy via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible > deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to > Ukraine. > > US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for > Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. > > At *3PM Central Time *today, Jan. 25th, > > *CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: * > > *Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 > * > > *Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin > and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. *Larry > Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of > staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. *After ending his military > career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War* and has been a vocal > opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before diplomacy. > > *RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! > * > > *The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 > international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result > in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the > United States and Russia.* We must immediately demand that NATO, the > U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated > solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made > with Russia, *including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a member > of NATO.* > > RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in > Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over > Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. > > Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new > escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have > encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk > II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. *They > have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in > Eastern Ukraine. * > > Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its borders, > and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, when > Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO membership, > President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" to Russia. > > *NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the > dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly > not be expanding to include Ukraine. * > > Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have done, > it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold War to an > end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to expand > eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once either Soviet > republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. > > *Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time to > speak out is now! * > > *Join the webinar* > on the crisis in Ukraine and *tell Congress not to let Biden send troops > to Eastern Europe! > * > > Towards peace, > > *Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, Carley, > Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, > Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie * > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue Jan 25 19:24:39 2022 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 13:24:39 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: Robert, You?re right about Yemen, it?s a terrible situation, one which was created in 2015 by the Obama Administration, along with the destruction of Libya and Syria. That doesn?t negate what is taking place in Ukraine on the borders of Russia, which began during the Reagan Administration, became obvious during the Obama Administration, and now has us on the verge of WW3. For those so certain the US isn?t insane, and won?t go to war with Russia, you need to recognize the USG uses proxy?s and having Ukraine destroyed in a proxy war doesn?t bother them at all. The provocations of Russia by Nato is urging regime change for another Yeltsin, or force Russia to annex portions of Ukraine, the Donbass region specifically, which could result in war with the potential for WW3. When experts on "foreign policy" are even more concerned now than ever over this issue, denigrating those in this community showing the same concern, is insulting. So here, be my guest, and educate yourself: I have more articles if anyone is interested. https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-crisis-us-toolboxes-are-empty/ https://raymcgovern.com/.../perfidious-albion-giving.../ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkYgXQo2aQs https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/547244-head-of-german-navy-forced/ https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/546815-ben-norton-americans-dont-want/ > On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace wrote: > > > If you believe that the United States is going to war with Russia over Ukraine, please raise your hand. > > This is not how the U.S. Empire works. Did the U.S. go to war with Russia over Syria? If the U.S. wasn't willing to go to war with Russia over Syria, why would the U.S. be willing to go to war with Russia over Ukraine? This is all Blob hype in the media to pressure Biden to be more aggressive. But whatever Biden does, it's not going to be war with Russia. Biden is not insane. They'll send some more military stuff, they'll deploy a few thousand more troops to NATO countries in Eastern Europe, they'll impose more economic sanctions on Russia, though not any that would badly hurt the German economy, which means that they're not going to get carried away. > > Do you remember in grade school, when they said: "Pick on someone your own size"? That's something the U.S. Empire NEVER does. Reagan talked tough on the Soviet Union. Then he invaded Grenada, a country the size of Champaign-Urbana. > > Here's why this matters. There is an "emergency" Codepink webinar today at 8pm ET on the U.S.-Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. How many people are going to go to both? Which is the real emergency, the Blob media hype that can never result in a war with Russia because the people running the U.S. are not insane, or Yemeni children starving to death because the U.S. is helping the Saudi regime blockade Yemen, in violation of Article I of the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of 1973? > > Here is the real emergency Codepink webinar today for the people who don't want to chase Shiny Objects in the Blob-dominated U.S. media: > > "Please join CODEPINK for #YemenCan'tWait Emergency On-Line Action with a briefing from Yemenis. > Tues., Jan. 25, 5 PM (PT), 8 PM (ET) > RSVP HERE. > The Saudi-UAE coalition recently attacked Yemen's communication infrastructure, leaving all of Yemen without connection to the internet. Initial reports of Saudi-led strikes have high civilian casualties. People in the U.S. need to take action now. Join us on January 25 at 8PM ET to engage on social media and call our members of Congress. Attendees will be briefed on the situation on the ground at the beginning & given all the tools and language for taking action. Please RSVP and invite friends. We need all hands on deck." > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:04 AM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss > wrote: > Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to Ukraine. > > US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. > > At 3PM Central Time today, Jan. 25th, CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: > > Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 > Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. Larry Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. After ending his military career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War and has been a vocal opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before diplomacy. > > RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! > > The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the United States and Russia. We must immediately demand that NATO, the U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made with Russia, including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. > > RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. > > Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. They have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in Eastern Ukraine. > > Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" to Russia. NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly not be expanding to include Ukraine. > > Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have done, it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold War to an end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to expand eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once either Soviet republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. > > Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time to speak out is now! > > Join the webinar on the crisis in Ukraine and tell Congress not to let Biden send troops to Eastern Europe! > Towards peace, > Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, Carley, Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue Jan 25 19:30:26 2022 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 13:30:26 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> <6f7fa400-5c88-cfbd-55e8-2551c1e049f9@gmail.com> Message-ID: LOL > On Jan 25, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Robert Naiman wrote: > > > I am not in favor of what the U.S. has been doing in Ukraine, by any stretch of the imagination. If people want to organize against that, I'm totally for it. But it's irresponsible scaremongering to say that there's a danger that the U.S. is going to war with Russia over Ukraine, when there is no such danger, unless by "war" one means what the U.S. is already doing, in which case it's not a danger, it's what's already the case. Activist resources are finite, I'm sorry to say. This scaremongering about the danger of war with Russia is a distraction. We have a real possibility of ending unconstitutional U.S. participation in the Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen with floor votes in Congress in the next two months. Durbin and Duckworth could help a great deal with that; they have been in the more progressive half of Senate Democrats on this issue; on the last vote the Senate, they were better than Chris Murphy, who was historically a champion on the issue. Why not focus on what we have a chance to change? There is no danger of war with Russia, and there is little prospect of significant improvement in relations with Russia over and above whatever is necessary to avoid war, which the U.S. will do no matter what we say, because the people running the U.S. are not totally insane. Let's focus on what we can do something about in order to save the most lives. > > > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 12:25 PM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss > wrote: > Yes. I'm very worried about it, too. I'm sure a lot of us are but don't have the regular outlet we used to have to share it with each other. I have been seeing and reading a number of postings from you, but don't generally have anything to say in response -- so I don't know if I'm getting all you send, but some. > > NPR keeps bringing on neocon commentators to soberly tell us how aggressive Russia is, and how we need to push the conflict to the brink so that the Russians will back down. And yesterday's Chicago Sun-Times noted a bunch of Illinois Democratic politicians, Durbin and a bunch of US Reps (though *not* Jan Schakowsky, fortunately) expressing their support for Ukraine, which of course means support for US economic/military/whatever threatening action against Russia. > > On 1/25/22 09:27, karen aram wrote: >> Thank you Stuart, >> >> I?ve been waiting for someone other than myself, to recognize the dangers inherent in what is taking place in Ukraine. I haven?t been posting on the Peace List given, I don?t know that my postings have been going through given I see almost no feedback nor postings from others. Even Facebook friends seem to not notice how critical this situation is with US nuclear missiles being spread across Eastern Europe, and Nato on the borders of Russia. >> >> I?m pleased to see "Code Pink,? currently the only anti-war group in the US showing concern, and now acting on the issue, as well as yourself. >> >> This is the most serious issue today, more dangerous even than the "Cuban Missile Crisis," according to some, with the potential for WW3. >> >> Karen Aram >> >> >>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 8:03 AM, Stuart Levy via Peace > wrote: >>> >>> Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to Ukraine. >>> >>> US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. >>> >>> At 3PM Central Time today, Jan. 25th, CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: >>> >>> Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 >>> Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. Larry Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. After ending his military career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War and has been a vocal opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before diplomacy. >>> >>> RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! >>> >>> The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the United States and Russia. We must immediately demand that NATO, the U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made with Russia, including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. >>> >>> RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. >>> >>> Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. They have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in Eastern Ukraine. >>> >>> Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" to Russia. NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly not be expanding to include Ukraine. >>> >>> Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have done, it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold War to an end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to expand eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once either Soviet republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. >>> >>> Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time to speak out is now! >>> >>> Join the webinar on the crisis in Ukraine and tell Congress not to let Biden send troops to Eastern Europe! >>> Towards peace, >>> Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, Carley, Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue Jan 25 19:40:32 2022 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 13:40:32 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar References: Message-ID: Robert I?m sorry, but your reference to us as ?scaremongering" over the Ukraine issue is beyond insanity. Focus on ending the slaughter and famine in Yemen is something we?ve all been doing since 2015, and your continuing faith in our do nothing politicians is laughable, if it wasn?t so serious. By all means continue, but add to the phone calls, letters, etc. to our Congressman, what is taking place in Ukraine. One could add many issues both domestic as well as foreign policy. > Begin forwarded message: > > From: karen aram > Date: January 25, 2022 at 1:30:26 PM CST > To: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com > Cc: Stuart Levy , Peace Discuss > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar > > LOL > > >> On Jan 25, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: >> >> >> I am not in favor of what the U.S. has been doing in Ukraine, by any stretch of the imagination. If people want to organize against that, I'm totally for it. But it's irresponsible scaremongering to say that there's a danger that the U.S. is going to war with Russia over Ukraine, when there is no such danger, unless by "war" one means what the U.S. is already doing, in which case it's not a danger, it's what's already the case. Activist resources are finite, I'm sorry to say. This scaremongering about the danger of war with Russia is a distraction. We have a real possibility of ending unconstitutional U.S. participation in the Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen with floor votes in Congress in the next two months. Durbin and Duckworth could help a great deal with that; they have been in the more progressive half of Senate Democrats on this issue; on the last vote the Senate, they were better than Chris Murphy, who was historically a champion on the issue. Why not focus on what we have a chance to change? There is no danger of war with Russia, and there is little prospect of significant improvement in relations with Russia over and above whatever is necessary to avoid war, which the U.S. will do no matter what we say, because the people running the U.S. are not totally insane. Let's focus on what we can do something about in order to save the most lives. >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 12:25 PM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss > wrote: >> Yes. I'm very worried about it, too. I'm sure a lot of us are but don't have the regular outlet we used to have to share it with each other. I have been seeing and reading a number of postings from you, but don't generally have anything to say in response -- so I don't know if I'm getting all you send, but some. >> >> NPR keeps bringing on neocon commentators to soberly tell us how aggressive Russia is, and how we need to push the conflict to the brink so that the Russians will back down. And yesterday's Chicago Sun-Times noted a bunch of Illinois Democratic politicians, Durbin and a bunch of US Reps (though *not* Jan Schakowsky, fortunately) expressing their support for Ukraine, which of course means support for US economic/military/whatever threatening action against Russia. >> >> On 1/25/22 09:27, karen aram wrote: >>> Thank you Stuart, >>> >>> I?ve been waiting for someone other than myself, to recognize the dangers inherent in what is taking place in Ukraine. I haven?t been posting on the Peace List given, I don?t know that my postings have been going through given I see almost no feedback nor postings from others. Even Facebook friends seem to not notice how critical this situation is with US nuclear missiles being spread across Eastern Europe, and Nato on the borders of Russia. >>> >>> I?m pleased to see "Code Pink,? currently the only anti-war group in the US showing concern, and now acting on the issue, as well as yourself. >>> >>> This is the most serious issue today, more dangerous even than the "Cuban Missile Crisis," according to some, with the potential for WW3. >>> >>> Karen Aram >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 8:03 AM, Stuart Levy via Peace > wrote: >>>> >>>> Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to Ukraine. >>>> >>>> US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. >>>> >>>> At 3PM Central Time today, Jan. 25th, CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: >>>> >>>> Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 >>>> Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. Larry Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. After ending his military career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War and has been a vocal opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before diplomacy. >>>> >>>> RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! >>>> >>>> The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the United States and Russia. We must immediately demand that NATO, the U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made with Russia, including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. >>>> >>>> RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. >>>> >>>> Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. They have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in Eastern Ukraine. >>>> >>>> Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" to Russia. NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly not be expanding to include Ukraine. >>>> >>>> Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have done, it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold War to an end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to expand eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once either Soviet republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. >>>> >>>> Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time to speak out is now! >>>> >>>> Join the webinar on the crisis in Ukraine and tell Congress not to let Biden send troops to Eastern Europe! >>>> Towards peace, >>>> Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, Carley, Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace mailing list >>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 21:08:37 2022 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 16:08:37 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm not denigrating being concerned about what the U.S. is doing in Ukraine. I'm denigrating the scaremongering about "World War 3." That's nonsense. It's not how the U.S. behaves. It's not how Russia behaves. Proxy war is not the same thing as direct war. That doesn't mean that proxy war is ok. Proxy war is not ok. Proxy war is monstrous. It has destroyed country after country. But it's not a threat to Americans, which is why they do it and mostly get away with it. We should be honest about this. We should tell the truth about this. Lying about it isn't going to improve anything. You can temporarily get people excited. But you can't sustain activism like this. Nobody will stick with concern about Ukraine once they cut a deal and it's out of the headlines. It's ephemeral. It's a Shiny Object. It's not building anything. It's not doing anything about the big harms that U.S. foreign policy is causing. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Yemen. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Afghanistan. What is Ukraine compared to that? It's a nothingburger. How does jumping up and down about Ukraine help with that? It doesn't help with that. It doesn't do anything. Look at Syria. The U.S. was happy to mess around in Syria, promote sectarian civil war to undermine the regime. But when the Russians intervened directly, the U.S. said: "Oh, ok." They weren't going to fight Russia over Syria. They are not going to fight the Russians over Ukraine. On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 2:24 PM karen aram wrote: > Robert, > > You?re right about Yemen, it?s a terrible situation, one which was created > in 2015 by the Obama Administration, along with the destruction of Libya > and Syria. > > That doesn?t negate what is taking place in Ukraine on the borders of > Russia, which began during the Reagan Administration, became obvious during > the Obama Administration, and now has us on the verge of WW3. > > For those so certain the US isn?t insane, and won?t go to war with Russia, > you need to recognize the USG uses proxy?s and having Ukraine destroyed in > a proxy war doesn?t bother them at all. > > The provocations of Russia by Nato is urging regime change for another > Yeltsin, or force Russia to annex portions of Ukraine, the Donbass region > specifically, which could result in war with the potential for WW3. > > When experts on "foreign policy" are even more concerned now than ever > over this issue, denigrating those in this community showing the same > concern, is insulting. > > So here, be my guest, and educate yourself: > > I have more articles if anyone is interested. > > https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-crisis-us-toolboxes-are-empty/ > > https://raymcgovern.com/.../perfidious-albion-giving.../ > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkYgXQo2aQs > > > https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/547244-head-of-german-navy-forced/ > > > https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/546815-ben-norton-americans-dont-want/ > > > > > > On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > > If you believe that the United States is going to war with Russia over > Ukraine, please raise your hand. > > This is not how the U.S. Empire works. Did the U.S. go to war with Russia > over Syria? If the U.S. wasn't willing to go to war with Russia over Syria, > why would the U.S. be willing to go to war with Russia over Ukraine? This > is all Blob hype in the media to pressure Biden to be more aggressive. But > whatever Biden does, it's not going to be war with Russia. Biden is not > insane. They'll send some more military stuff, they'll deploy a few > thousand more troops to NATO countries in Eastern Europe, they'll impose > more economic sanctions on Russia, though not any that would badly hurt the > German economy, which means that they're not going to get carried away. > > Do you remember in grade school, when they said: "Pick on someone your own > size"? That's something the U.S. Empire NEVER does. Reagan talked tough on > the Soviet Union. Then he invaded Grenada, a country the size of > Champaign-Urbana. > > Here's why this matters. There is an "emergency" Codepink webinar today at > 8pm ET on the U.S.-Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. How > many people are going to go to both? Which is the real emergency, the Blob > media hype that can never result in a war with Russia because the people > running the U.S. are not insane, or Yemeni children starving to death > because the U.S. is helping the Saudi regime blockade Yemen, in violation > of Article I of the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of > 1973? > > Here is the real emergency Codepink webinar today for the people who don't > want to chase Shiny Objects in the Blob-dominated U.S. media: > > "Please join CODEPINK for #YemenCan'tWait Emergency On-Line Action with a > briefing from Yemenis. > Tues., Jan. 25, 5 PM (PT), 8 PM (ET) > RSVP HERE. > The Saudi-UAE coalition recently attacked Yemen's communication > infrastructure, leaving all of Yemen without connection to the internet. > Initial reports of Saudi-led strikes have high civilian casualties. People > in the U.S. need to take action now. Join us on January 25 at 8PM ET to > engage on social media and call our members of Congress. Attendees will be > briefed on the situation on the ground at the beginning & given all the > tools and language for taking action. Please RSVP and invite friends. We > need all hands on deck." > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:04 AM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible >> deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to >> Ukraine. >> >> US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for >> Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. >> >> At *3PM Central Time *today, Jan. 25th, >> >> *CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: * >> >> *Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 >> * >> >> *Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin >> and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. *Larry >> Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of >> staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. *After ending his military >> career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War* and has been a vocal >> opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before diplomacy. >> >> *RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! >> * >> >> *The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 >> international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result >> in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the >> United States and Russia.* We must immediately demand that NATO, the >> U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated >> solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made >> with Russia, *including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a >> member of NATO.* >> >> RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in >> Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over >> Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. >> >> Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new >> escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have >> encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk >> II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. *They >> have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in >> Eastern Ukraine. * >> >> Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its >> borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, >> when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO >> membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" >> to Russia. >> >> *NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the >> dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly >> not be expanding to include Ukraine. * >> >> Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have done, >> it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold War to an >> end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to expand >> eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once either Soviet >> republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. >> >> *Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time >> to speak out is now! * >> >> *Join the webinar* >> on the crisis in Ukraine and *tell Congress not to let Biden send troops >> to Eastern Europe! >> * >> >> Towards peace, >> >> *Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, Carley, >> Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, >> Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie * >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 22:22:38 2022 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:22:38 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: For the record: I was on the call and took the suggested actions. There were more than 500 people on the call, according to Medea. Larry Wilkerson gave a shout-out to Yemen WPR, which I appreciated. Now we'll see how many people are on the Yemen call at 7pm CT. On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:08 PM Robert Naiman wrote: > > I'm not denigrating being concerned about what the U.S. is doing in > Ukraine. I'm denigrating the scaremongering about "World War 3." That's > nonsense. It's not how the U.S. behaves. It's not how Russia behaves. Proxy > war is not the same thing as direct war. That doesn't mean that proxy war > is ok. Proxy war is not ok. Proxy war is monstrous. It has > destroyed country after country. But it's not a threat to Americans, which > is why they do it and mostly get away with it. We should be honest about > this. We should tell the truth about this. Lying about it isn't going to > improve anything. You can temporarily get people excited. But you can't > sustain activism like this. Nobody will stick with concern about Ukraine > once they cut a deal and it's out of the headlines. It's ephemeral. It's a > Shiny Object. It's not building anything. It's not doing anything about the > big harms that U.S. foreign policy is causing. Millions of human beings on > the brink of starvation in Yemen. Millions of human beings on the brink of > starvation in Afghanistan. What is Ukraine compared to that? It's a > nothingburger. How does jumping up and down about Ukraine help with that? > It doesn't help with that. It doesn't do anything. > > Look at Syria. The U.S. was happy to mess around in Syria, promote > sectarian civil war to undermine the regime. But when the Russians > intervened directly, the U.S. said: "Oh, ok." They weren't going to fight > Russia over Syria. > > They are not going to fight the Russians over Ukraine. > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 2:24 PM karen aram wrote: > >> Robert, >> >> You?re right about Yemen, it?s a terrible situation, one which was >> created in 2015 by the Obama Administration, along with the destruction of >> Libya and Syria. >> >> That doesn?t negate what is taking place in Ukraine on the borders of >> Russia, which began during the Reagan Administration, became obvious during >> the Obama Administration, and now has us on the verge of WW3. >> >> For those so certain the US isn?t insane, and won?t go to war with >> Russia, you need to recognize the USG uses proxy?s and having Ukraine >> destroyed in a proxy war doesn?t bother them at all. >> >> The provocations of Russia by Nato is urging regime change for another >> Yeltsin, or force Russia to annex portions of Ukraine, the Donbass region >> specifically, which could result in war with the potential for WW3. >> >> When experts on "foreign policy" are even more concerned now than ever >> over this issue, denigrating those in this community showing the same >> concern, is insulting. >> >> So here, be my guest, and educate yourself: >> >> I have more articles if anyone is interested. >> >> https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-crisis-us-toolboxes-are-empty/ >> >> https://raymcgovern.com/.../perfidious-albion-giving.../ >> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkYgXQo2aQs >> >> >> https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/547244-head-of-german-navy-forced/ >> >> >> https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/546815-ben-norton-americans-dont-want/ >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace < >> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >> >> >> If you believe that the United States is going to war with Russia over >> Ukraine, please raise your hand. >> >> This is not how the U.S. Empire works. Did the U.S. go to war with Russia >> over Syria? If the U.S. wasn't willing to go to war with Russia over Syria, >> why would the U.S. be willing to go to war with Russia over Ukraine? This >> is all Blob hype in the media to pressure Biden to be more aggressive. But >> whatever Biden does, it's not going to be war with Russia. Biden is not >> insane. They'll send some more military stuff, they'll deploy a few >> thousand more troops to NATO countries in Eastern Europe, they'll impose >> more economic sanctions on Russia, though not any that would badly hurt the >> German economy, which means that they're not going to get carried away. >> >> Do you remember in grade school, when they said: "Pick on someone your >> own size"? That's something the U.S. Empire NEVER does. Reagan talked tough >> on the Soviet Union. Then he invaded Grenada, a country the size of >> Champaign-Urbana. >> >> Here's why this matters. There is an "emergency" Codepink webinar today >> at 8pm ET on the U.S.-Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. How >> many people are going to go to both? Which is the real emergency, the Blob >> media hype that can never result in a war with Russia because the people >> running the U.S. are not insane, or Yemeni children starving to death >> because the U.S. is helping the Saudi regime blockade Yemen, in violation >> of Article I of the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of >> 1973? >> >> Here is the real emergency Codepink webinar today for the people who >> don't want to chase Shiny Objects in the Blob-dominated U.S. media: >> >> "Please join CODEPINK for #YemenCan'tWait Emergency On-Line Action with a >> briefing from Yemenis. >> Tues., Jan. 25, 5 PM (PT), 8 PM (ET) >> RSVP HERE. >> The Saudi-UAE coalition recently attacked Yemen's communication >> infrastructure, leaving all of Yemen without connection to the internet. >> Initial reports of Saudi-led strikes have high civilian casualties. People >> in the U.S. need to take action now. Join us on January 25 at 8PM ET to >> engage on social media and call our members of Congress. Attendees will be >> briefed on the situation on the ground at the beginning & given all the >> tools and language for taking action. Please RSVP and invite friends. We >> need all hands on deck." >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:04 AM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss < >> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >> >>> Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible >>> deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to >>> Ukraine. >>> >>> US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for >>> Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. >>> >>> At *3PM Central Time *today, Jan. 25th, >>> >>> *CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: * >>> >>> *Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 >>> * >>> >>> *Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin >>> and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. *Larry >>> Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of >>> staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. *After ending his >>> military career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War* and has >>> been a vocal opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before >>> diplomacy. >>> >>> *RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! >>> * >>> >>> *The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 >>> international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result >>> in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the >>> United States and Russia.* We must immediately demand that NATO, the >>> U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated >>> solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made >>> with Russia, *including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a >>> member of NATO.* >>> >>> RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in >>> Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over >>> Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. >>> >>> Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new >>> escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have >>> encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk >>> II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. *They >>> have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in >>> Eastern Ukraine. * >>> >>> Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its >>> borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, >>> when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO >>> membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" >>> to Russia. >>> >>> *NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the >>> dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly >>> not be expanding to include Ukraine. * >>> >>> Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have >>> done, it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold War >>> to an end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to >>> expand eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once either >>> Soviet republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. >>> >>> *Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time >>> to speak out is now! * >>> >>> *Join the webinar* >>> on the crisis in Ukraine and *tell Congress not to let Biden send >>> troops to Eastern Europe! >>> * >>> >>> Towards peace, >>> >>> *Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, Carley, >>> Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, >>> Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie * >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue Jan 25 22:24:27 2022 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 16:24:27 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: Good, glad to hear it. > On Jan 25, 2022, at 4:22 PM, Robert Naiman wrote: > > > For the record: I was on the call and took the suggested actions. There were more than 500 people on the call, according to Medea. Larry Wilkerson gave a shout-out to Yemen WPR, which I appreciated. > > Now we'll see how many people are on the Yemen call at 7pm CT. > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:08 PM Robert Naiman > wrote: > > I'm not denigrating being concerned about what the U.S. is doing in Ukraine. I'm denigrating the scaremongering about "World War 3." That's nonsense. It's not how the U.S. behaves. It's not how Russia behaves. Proxy war is not the same thing as direct war. That doesn't mean that proxy war is ok. Proxy war is not ok. Proxy war is monstrous. It has destroyed country after country. But it's not a threat to Americans, which is why they do it and mostly get away with it. We should be honest about this. We should tell the truth about this. Lying about it isn't going to improve anything. You can temporarily get people excited. But you can't sustain activism like this. Nobody will stick with concern about Ukraine once they cut a deal and it's out of the headlines. It's ephemeral. It's a Shiny Object. It's not building anything. It's not doing anything about the big harms that U.S. foreign policy is causing. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Yemen. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Afghanistan. What is Ukraine compared to that? It's a nothingburger. How does jumping up and down about Ukraine help with that? It doesn't help with that. It doesn't do anything. > > Look at Syria. The U.S. was happy to mess around in Syria, promote sectarian civil war to undermine the regime. But when the Russians intervened directly, the U.S. said: "Oh, ok." They weren't going to fight Russia over Syria. > > They are not going to fight the Russians over Ukraine. > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 2:24 PM karen aram > wrote: > Robert, > > You?re right about Yemen, it?s a terrible situation, one which was created in 2015 by the Obama Administration, along with the destruction of Libya and Syria. > > That doesn?t negate what is taking place in Ukraine on the borders of Russia, which began during the Reagan Administration, became obvious during the Obama Administration, and now has us on the verge of WW3. > > For those so certain the US isn?t insane, and won?t go to war with Russia, you need to recognize the USG uses proxy?s and having Ukraine destroyed in a proxy war doesn?t bother them at all. > > The provocations of Russia by Nato is urging regime change for another Yeltsin, or force Russia to annex portions of Ukraine, the Donbass region specifically, which could result in war with the potential for WW3. > > When experts on "foreign policy" are even more concerned now than ever over this issue, denigrating those in this community showing the same concern, is insulting. > > So here, be my guest, and educate yourself: > > I have more articles if anyone is interested. > > https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-crisis-us-toolboxes-are-empty/ > > https://raymcgovern.com/.../perfidious-albion-giving.../ > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkYgXQo2aQs > > https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/547244-head-of-german-navy-forced/ > > https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/546815-ben-norton-americans-dont-want/ > > > > > >> On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace > wrote: >> >> >> If you believe that the United States is going to war with Russia over Ukraine, please raise your hand. >> >> This is not how the U.S. Empire works. Did the U.S. go to war with Russia over Syria? If the U.S. wasn't willing to go to war with Russia over Syria, why would the U.S. be willing to go to war with Russia over Ukraine? This is all Blob hype in the media to pressure Biden to be more aggressive. But whatever Biden does, it's not going to be war with Russia. Biden is not insane. They'll send some more military stuff, they'll deploy a few thousand more troops to NATO countries in Eastern Europe, they'll impose more economic sanctions on Russia, though not any that would badly hurt the German economy, which means that they're not going to get carried away. >> >> Do you remember in grade school, when they said: "Pick on someone your own size"? That's something the U.S. Empire NEVER does. Reagan talked tough on the Soviet Union. Then he invaded Grenada, a country the size of Champaign-Urbana. >> >> Here's why this matters. There is an "emergency" Codepink webinar today at 8pm ET on the U.S.-Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. How many people are going to go to both? Which is the real emergency, the Blob media hype that can never result in a war with Russia because the people running the U.S. are not insane, or Yemeni children starving to death because the U.S. is helping the Saudi regime blockade Yemen, in violation of Article I of the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of 1973? >> >> Here is the real emergency Codepink webinar today for the people who don't want to chase Shiny Objects in the Blob-dominated U.S. media: >> >> "Please join CODEPINK for #YemenCan'tWait Emergency On-Line Action with a briefing from Yemenis. >> Tues., Jan. 25, 5 PM (PT), 8 PM (ET) >> RSVP HERE. >> The Saudi-UAE coalition recently attacked Yemen's communication infrastructure, leaving all of Yemen without connection to the internet. Initial reports of Saudi-led strikes have high civilian casualties. People in the U.S. need to take action now. Join us on January 25 at 8PM ET to engage on social media and call our members of Congress. Attendees will be briefed on the situation on the ground at the beginning & given all the tools and language for taking action. Please RSVP and invite friends. We need all hands on deck." >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:04 AM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss > wrote: >> Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to Ukraine. >> >> US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. >> >> At 3PM Central Time today, Jan. 25th, CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: >> >> Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 >> Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. Larry Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. After ending his military career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War and has been a vocal opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before diplomacy. >> >> RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! >> >> The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the United States and Russia. We must immediately demand that NATO, the U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made with Russia, including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. >> >> RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. >> >> Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. They have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in Eastern Ukraine. >> >> Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" to Russia. NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly not be expanding to include Ukraine. >> >> Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have done, it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold War to an end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to expand eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once either Soviet republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. >> >> Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time to speak out is now! >> >> Join the webinar on the crisis in Ukraine and tell Congress not to let Biden send troops to Eastern Europe! >> Towards peace, >> Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, Carley, Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue Jan 25 22:39:59 2022 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 16:39:59 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: Robert You couldn?t be more wrong about the USG, we?ve destroyed how many nations in how many years? You?re right and they're not insane, they're just greedy, hegemonies, imperialists looking at profits and they don?t care how many lives they destroy. Obviously you haven?t been paying attention related to what is taking place in Ukraine, Russia and Nato. I?m referring to going beneath the surface, not just skimming the headlines. For starters: read Morton Brussel?s second paragraph below, he knows exactly what is taking place. Read or listen to the links I provided by experts in the field. Just listen to what "The Nation?s,? Katrina Vandenheuval has to say, on "Democracy Now," both of which are liberal Democrat media?s, not socialists nothing to be feared. Ray McGovern former CIA Analyst and advisor to the Reagan government, now retired and reformed. They are just two people who focus on what is taking place in the world, specifically the targets of US imperialism since at least 1917. And, if you think our nuclear missiles and Nato being spread across Europe isn?t dangerous, please understand: it takes only one, only one accident, and accidents do happen. > On Jan 25, 2022, at 3:08 PM, Robert Naiman wrote: > > > I'm not denigrating being concerned about what the U.S. is doing in Ukraine. I'm denigrating the scaremongering about "World War 3." That's nonsense. It's not how the U.S. behaves. It's not how Russia behaves. Proxy war is not the same thing as direct war. That doesn't mean that proxy war is ok. Proxy war is not ok. Proxy war is monstrous. It has destroyed country after country. But it's not a threat to Americans, which is why they do it and mostly get away with it. We should be honest about this. We should tell the truth about this. Lying about it isn't going to improve anything. You can temporarily get people excited. But you can't sustain activism like this. Nobody will stick with concern about Ukraine once they cut a deal and it's out of the headlines. It's ephemeral. It's a Shiny Object. It's not building anything. It's not doing anything about the big harms that U.S. foreign policy is causing. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Yemen. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Afghanistan. What is Ukraine compared to that? It's a nothingburger. How does jumping up and down about Ukraine help with that? It doesn't help with that. It doesn't do anything. > > Look at Syria. The U.S. was happy to mess around in Syria, promote sectarian civil war to undermine the regime. But when the Russians intervened directly, the U.S. said: "Oh, ok." They weren't going to fight Russia over Syria. > > They are not going to fight the Russians over Ukraine. > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 2:24 PM karen aram > wrote: > Robert, > > You?re right about Yemen, it?s a terrible situation, one which was created in 2015 by the Obama Administration, along with the destruction of Libya and Syria. > > That doesn?t negate what is taking place in Ukraine on the borders of Russia, which began during the Reagan Administration, became obvious during the Obama Administration, and now has us on the verge of WW3. > > For those so certain the US isn?t insane, and won?t go to war with Russia, you need to recognize the USG uses proxy?s and having Ukraine destroyed in a proxy war doesn?t bother them at all. > > The provocations of Russia by Nato is urging regime change for another Yeltsin, or force Russia to annex portions of Ukraine, the Donbass region specifically, which could result in war with the potential for WW3. > > When experts on "foreign policy" are even more concerned now than ever over this issue, denigrating those in this community showing the same concern, is insulting. > > So here, be my guest, and educate yourself: > > I have more articles if anyone is interested. > > https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-crisis-us-toolboxes-are-empty/ > > https://raymcgovern.com/.../perfidious-albion-giving.../ > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkYgXQo2aQs > > https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/547244-head-of-german-navy-forced/ > > https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/546815-ben-norton-americans-dont-want/ > > > > > >> On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace > wrote: >> >> >> If you believe that the United States is going to war with Russia over Ukraine, please raise your hand. >> >> This is not how the U.S. Empire works. Did the U.S. go to war with Russia over Syria? If the U.S. wasn't willing to go to war with Russia over Syria, why would the U.S. be willing to go to war with Russia over Ukraine? This is all Blob hype in the media to pressure Biden to be more aggressive. But whatever Biden does, it's not going to be war with Russia. Biden is not insane. They'll send some more military stuff, they'll deploy a few thousand more troops to NATO countries in Eastern Europe, they'll impose more economic sanctions on Russia, though not any that would badly hurt the German economy, which means that they're not going to get carried away. >> >> Do you remember in grade school, when they said: "Pick on someone your own size"? That's something the U.S. Empire NEVER does. Reagan talked tough on the Soviet Union. Then he invaded Grenada, a country the size of Champaign-Urbana. >> >> Here's why this matters. There is an "emergency" Codepink webinar today at 8pm ET on the U.S.-Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. How many people are going to go to both? Which is the real emergency, the Blob media hype that can never result in a war with Russia because the people running the U.S. are not insane, or Yemeni children starving to death because the U.S. is helping the Saudi regime blockade Yemen, in violation of Article I of the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of 1973? >> >> Here is the real emergency Codepink webinar today for the people who don't want to chase Shiny Objects in the Blob-dominated U.S. media: >> >> "Please join CODEPINK for #YemenCan'tWait Emergency On-Line Action with a briefing from Yemenis. >> Tues., Jan. 25, 5 PM (PT), 8 PM (ET) >> RSVP HERE. >> The Saudi-UAE coalition recently attacked Yemen's communication infrastructure, leaving all of Yemen without connection to the internet. Initial reports of Saudi-led strikes have high civilian casualties. People in the U.S. need to take action now. Join us on January 25 at 8PM ET to engage on social media and call our members of Congress. Attendees will be briefed on the situation on the ground at the beginning & given all the tools and language for taking action. Please RSVP and invite friends. We need all hands on deck." >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:04 AM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss > wrote: >> Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to Ukraine. >> >> US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. >> >> At 3PM Central Time today, Jan. 25th, CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: >> >> Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 >> Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. Larry Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. After ending his military career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War and has been a vocal opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before diplomacy. >> >> RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! >> >> The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the United States and Russia. We must immediately demand that NATO, the U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made with Russia, including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. >> >> RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. >> >> Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. They have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in Eastern Ukraine. >> >> Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" to Russia. NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly not be expanding to include Ukraine. >> >> Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have done, it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold War to an end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to expand eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once either Soviet republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. >> >> Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time to speak out is now! >> >> Join the webinar on the crisis in Ukraine and tell Congress not to let Biden send troops to Eastern Europe! >> Towards peace, >> Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, Carley, Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue Jan 25 23:14:35 2022 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:14:35 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Noam Chomsky/Firing Line 1969 explains why we critique our government, not other governments....... References: Message-ID: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DvmLMUfGss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 00:54:01 2022 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:54:01 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: In 1 Hour We Take Action for Yemen In-Reply-To: <61f08f0a3c6e6_10281102f4c77489@asgworker-qmb3-19.nbuild.prd.useast1.3dna.io.mail> References: <61f08f0a3c6e6_10281102f4c77489@asgworker-qmb3-19.nbuild.prd.useast1.3dna.io.mail> Message-ID: Actually this is happening in seven minutes ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Danaka, CODEPINK Date: Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 7:00 PM Subject: In 1 Hour We Take Action for Yemen To: Robert Naiman Here is your Zoom link for the Yemen emergency action call. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? [image: CODEPINK.ORG] Dear Robert, Thank you for RSVPing to our Emergency Action Call for Yemen. We will begin in one hour. Internet was restored to Yemen last night after a four day blackout. Immediately after the news broke, the Saudi-UAE coalition started bombarding Yemen's capital city of Sana'a. The time to act is now! At 8PM ET you can click here to join the Zoom! *What to expect:* At the beginning of the call we will be briefing everyone on the situation on the ground then spending a majority of the time taking action together. *Please be prepared to send tweets from your personal Twitter accounts.* Public Twitter accounts will be the most useful for our social media action. Not to worry, if you do not have Twitter we will give you a different action to take during this portion. The second action will ask that you make a phone call to your Member of Congress. *All you need to know is your zip code,* so please have that information ready to go. We will provide the phone number to call and a script! As the situation on the ground continues to get worse and worse, it is so important that you show up and bring a friend to this event. We need all hands on deck. Yemen can't wait for us to bring more people into this movement, we have to do it now. *Solidarity forever, **Danaka & the whole CODEPINK team* [image: Donate Now!] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 00:57:46 2022 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:57:46 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: Karen, I know more about this than you do. Why do you taunt me with your evil stupidity? On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 5:40 PM karen aram wrote: > Robert > > You couldn?t be more wrong about the USG, we?ve destroyed how many nations > in how many years? You?re right and they're not insane, they're just > greedy, hegemonies, imperialists looking at profits and they don?t care how > many lives they destroy. > > Obviously you haven?t been paying attention related to what is taking > place in Ukraine, Russia and Nato. I?m referring to going beneath the > surface, not just skimming the headlines. > > For starters: read Morton Brussel?s second paragraph below, he knows > exactly what is taking place. > > Read or listen to the links I provided by experts in the field. > > Just listen to what "The Nation?s,? Katrina Vandenheuval has to say, on > "Democracy Now," both of which are liberal Democrat media?s, not socialists > nothing to be feared. Ray McGovern former CIA Analyst and advisor to the > Reagan government, now retired and reformed. They are just two people who > focus on what is taking place in the world, specifically the targets of US > imperialism since at least 1917. > > And, if you think our nuclear missiles and Nato being spread across Europe > isn?t dangerous, please understand: it takes only one, only one accident, > and accidents do happen. > > > On Jan 25, 2022, at 3:08 PM, Robert Naiman wrote: > > > I'm not denigrating being concerned about what the U.S. is doing in > Ukraine. I'm denigrating the scaremongering about "World War 3." That's > nonsense. It's not how the U.S. behaves. It's not how Russia behaves. Proxy > war is not the same thing as direct war. That doesn't mean that proxy war > is ok. Proxy war is not ok. Proxy war is monstrous. It has > destroyed country after country. But it's not a threat to Americans, which > is why they do it and mostly get away with it. We should be honest about > this. We should tell the truth about this. Lying about it isn't going to > improve anything. You can temporarily get people excited. But you can't > sustain activism like this. Nobody will stick with concern about Ukraine > once they cut a deal and it's out of the headlines. It's ephemeral. It's a > Shiny Object. It's not building anything. It's not doing anything about the > big harms that U.S. foreign policy is causing. Millions of human beings on > the brink of starvation in Yemen. Millions of human beings on the brink of > starvation in Afghanistan. What is Ukraine compared to that? It's a > nothingburger. How does jumping up and down about Ukraine help with that? > It doesn't help with that. It doesn't do anything. > > Look at Syria. The U.S. was happy to mess around in Syria, promote > sectarian civil war to undermine the regime. But when the Russians > intervened directly, the U.S. said: "Oh, ok." They weren't going to fight > Russia over Syria. > > They are not going to fight the Russians over Ukraine. > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 2:24 PM karen aram wrote: > >> Robert, >> >> You?re right about Yemen, it?s a terrible situation, one which was >> created in 2015 by the Obama Administration, along with the destruction of >> Libya and Syria. >> >> That doesn?t negate what is taking place in Ukraine on the borders of >> Russia, which began during the Reagan Administration, became obvious during >> the Obama Administration, and now has us on the verge of WW3. >> >> For those so certain the US isn?t insane, and won?t go to war with >> Russia, you need to recognize the USG uses proxy?s and having Ukraine >> destroyed in a proxy war doesn?t bother them at all. >> >> The provocations of Russia by Nato is urging regime change for another >> Yeltsin, or force Russia to annex portions of Ukraine, the Donbass region >> specifically, which could result in war with the potential for WW3. >> >> When experts on "foreign policy" are even more concerned now than ever >> over this issue, denigrating those in this community showing the same >> concern, is insulting. >> >> So here, be my guest, and educate yourself: >> >> I have more articles if anyone is interested. >> >> https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-crisis-us-toolboxes-are-empty/ >> >> https://raymcgovern.com/.../perfidious-albion-giving.../ >> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkYgXQo2aQs >> >> >> https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/547244-head-of-german-navy-forced/ >> >> >> https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/546815-ben-norton-americans-dont-want/ >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace < >> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >> >> >> If you believe that the United States is going to war with Russia over >> Ukraine, please raise your hand. >> >> This is not how the U.S. Empire works. Did the U.S. go to war with Russia >> over Syria? If the U.S. wasn't willing to go to war with Russia over Syria, >> why would the U.S. be willing to go to war with Russia over Ukraine? This >> is all Blob hype in the media to pressure Biden to be more aggressive. But >> whatever Biden does, it's not going to be war with Russia. Biden is not >> insane. They'll send some more military stuff, they'll deploy a few >> thousand more troops to NATO countries in Eastern Europe, they'll impose >> more economic sanctions on Russia, though not any that would badly hurt the >> German economy, which means that they're not going to get carried away. >> >> Do you remember in grade school, when they said: "Pick on someone your >> own size"? That's something the U.S. Empire NEVER does. Reagan talked tough >> on the Soviet Union. Then he invaded Grenada, a country the size of >> Champaign-Urbana. >> >> Here's why this matters. There is an "emergency" Codepink webinar today >> at 8pm ET on the U.S.-Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. How >> many people are going to go to both? Which is the real emergency, the Blob >> media hype that can never result in a war with Russia because the people >> running the U.S. are not insane, or Yemeni children starving to death >> because the U.S. is helping the Saudi regime blockade Yemen, in violation >> of Article I of the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of >> 1973? >> >> Here is the real emergency Codepink webinar today for the people who >> don't want to chase Shiny Objects in the Blob-dominated U.S. media: >> >> "Please join CODEPINK for #YemenCan'tWait Emergency On-Line Action with a >> briefing from Yemenis. >> Tues., Jan. 25, 5 PM (PT), 8 PM (ET) >> RSVP HERE. >> The Saudi-UAE coalition recently attacked Yemen's communication >> infrastructure, leaving all of Yemen without connection to the internet. >> Initial reports of Saudi-led strikes have high civilian casualties. People >> in the U.S. need to take action now. Join us on January 25 at 8PM ET to >> engage on social media and call our members of Congress. Attendees will be >> briefed on the situation on the ground at the beginning & given all the >> tools and language for taking action. Please RSVP and invite friends. We >> need all hands on deck." >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:04 AM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss < >> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >> >>> Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible >>> deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to >>> Ukraine. >>> >>> US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for >>> Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. >>> >>> At *3PM Central Time *today, Jan. 25th, >>> >>> *CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: * >>> >>> *Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 >>> * >>> >>> *Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin >>> and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. *Larry >>> Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of >>> staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. *After ending his >>> military career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War* and has >>> been a vocal opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before >>> diplomacy. >>> >>> *RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! >>> * >>> >>> *The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 >>> international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result >>> in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the >>> United States and Russia.* We must immediately demand that NATO, the >>> U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated >>> solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made >>> with Russia, *including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a >>> member of NATO.* >>> >>> RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in >>> Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over >>> Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. >>> >>> Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new >>> escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have >>> encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk >>> II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. *They >>> have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in >>> Eastern Ukraine. * >>> >>> Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its >>> borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, >>> when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO >>> membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" >>> to Russia. >>> >>> *NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the >>> dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly >>> not be expanding to include Ukraine. * >>> >>> Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have >>> done, it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold War >>> to an end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to >>> expand eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once either >>> Soviet republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. >>> >>> *Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time >>> to speak out is now! * >>> >>> *Join the webinar* >>> on the crisis in Ukraine and *tell Congress not to let Biden send >>> troops to Eastern Europe! >>> * >>> >>> Towards peace, >>> >>> *Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, Carley, >>> Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, >>> Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie * >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Jan 26 01:35:20 2022 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:35:20 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: Robert You?re really funny, you just learned about it today, based upon your previous emails. Your insistence, "it?s a distraction, your insistence the USG isn?t insane," on and on Your insistence we listen to the webinar related to Yemen, which we?ve known about for seven years with no change in direction from the US, our government representatives, and our proxy the KSA in their goal of total destruction, and control. But "oh my," you know more about this than I and I?m the one who is "stupid and evil.? Come on, you can do better than that, threaten me with bodily harm, as you have in the past. Your misogyny betrays you. I?ll stop taunting you, when you stop with the lies and propaganda, and stop addressing me. We should all thank Stuart for his email invitation to Code Pink?s webinar enlightening Robert and hopefully others. > On Jan 25, 2022, at 6:57 PM, Robert Naiman wrote: > > Karen, > > I know more about this than you do. > > Why do you taunt me with your evil stupidity? > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 5:40 PM karen aram > wrote: > Robert > > You couldn?t be more wrong about the USG, we?ve destroyed how many nations in how many years? You?re right and they're not insane, they're just greedy, hegemonies, imperialists looking at profits and they don?t care how many lives they destroy. > > Obviously you haven?t been paying attention related to what is taking place in Ukraine, Russia and Nato. I?m referring to going beneath the surface, not just skimming the headlines. > > For starters: read Morton Brussel?s second paragraph below, he knows exactly what is taking place. > > Read or listen to the links I provided by experts in the field. > > Just listen to what "The Nation?s,? Katrina Vandenheuval has to say, on "Democracy Now," both of which are liberal Democrat media?s, not socialists nothing to be feared. Ray McGovern former CIA Analyst and advisor to the Reagan government, now retired and reformed. They are just two people who focus on what is taking place in the world, specifically the targets of US imperialism since at least 1917. > > And, if you think our nuclear missiles and Nato being spread across Europe isn?t dangerous, please understand: it takes only one, only one accident, and accidents do happen. > > >> On Jan 25, 2022, at 3:08 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: >> >> >> I'm not denigrating being concerned about what the U.S. is doing in Ukraine. I'm denigrating the scaremongering about "World War 3." That's nonsense. It's not how the U.S. behaves. It's not how Russia behaves. Proxy war is not the same thing as direct war. That doesn't mean that proxy war is ok. Proxy war is not ok. Proxy war is monstrous. It has destroyed country after country. But it's not a threat to Americans, which is why they do it and mostly get away with it. We should be honest about this. We should tell the truth about this. Lying about it isn't going to improve anything. You can temporarily get people excited. But you can't sustain activism like this. Nobody will stick with concern about Ukraine once they cut a deal and it's out of the headlines. It's ephemeral. It's a Shiny Object. It's not building anything. It's not doing anything about the big harms that U.S. foreign policy is causing. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Yemen. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Afghanistan. What is Ukraine compared to that? It's a nothingburger. How does jumping up and down about Ukraine help with that? It doesn't help with that. It doesn't do anything. >> >> Look at Syria. The U.S. was happy to mess around in Syria, promote sectarian civil war to undermine the regime. But when the Russians intervened directly, the U.S. said: "Oh, ok." They weren't going to fight Russia over Syria. >> >> They are not going to fight the Russians over Ukraine. >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 2:24 PM karen aram > wrote: >> Robert, >> >> You?re right about Yemen, it?s a terrible situation, one which was created in 2015 by the Obama Administration, along with the destruction of Libya and Syria. >> >> That doesn?t negate what is taking place in Ukraine on the borders of Russia, which began during the Reagan Administration, became obvious during the Obama Administration, and now has us on the verge of WW3. >> >> For those so certain the US isn?t insane, and won?t go to war with Russia, you need to recognize the USG uses proxy?s and having Ukraine destroyed in a proxy war doesn?t bother them at all. >> >> The provocations of Russia by Nato is urging regime change for another Yeltsin, or force Russia to annex portions of Ukraine, the Donbass region specifically, which could result in war with the potential for WW3. >> >> When experts on "foreign policy" are even more concerned now than ever over this issue, denigrating those in this community showing the same concern, is insulting. >> >> So here, be my guest, and educate yourself: >> >> I have more articles if anyone is interested. >> >> https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-crisis-us-toolboxes-are-empty/ >> >> https://raymcgovern.com/.../perfidious-albion-giving.../ >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkYgXQo2aQs >> >> https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/547244-head-of-german-navy-forced/ >> >> https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/546815-ben-norton-americans-dont-want/ >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace > wrote: >>> >>> >>> If you believe that the United States is going to war with Russia over Ukraine, please raise your hand. >>> >>> This is not how the U.S. Empire works. Did the U.S. go to war with Russia over Syria? If the U.S. wasn't willing to go to war with Russia over Syria, why would the U.S. be willing to go to war with Russia over Ukraine? This is all Blob hype in the media to pressure Biden to be more aggressive. But whatever Biden does, it's not going to be war with Russia. Biden is not insane. They'll send some more military stuff, they'll deploy a few thousand more troops to NATO countries in Eastern Europe, they'll impose more economic sanctions on Russia, though not any that would badly hurt the German economy, which means that they're not going to get carried away. >>> >>> Do you remember in grade school, when they said: "Pick on someone your own size"? That's something the U.S. Empire NEVER does. Reagan talked tough on the Soviet Union. Then he invaded Grenada, a country the size of Champaign-Urbana. >>> >>> Here's why this matters. There is an "emergency" Codepink webinar today at 8pm ET on the U.S.-Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. How many people are going to go to both? Which is the real emergency, the Blob media hype that can never result in a war with Russia because the people running the U.S. are not insane, or Yemeni children starving to death because the U.S. is helping the Saudi regime blockade Yemen, in violation of Article I of the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of 1973? >>> >>> Here is the real emergency Codepink webinar today for the people who don't want to chase Shiny Objects in the Blob-dominated U.S. media: >>> >>> "Please join CODEPINK for #YemenCan'tWait Emergency On-Line Action with a briefing from Yemenis. >>> Tues., Jan. 25, 5 PM (PT), 8 PM (ET) >>> RSVP HERE. >>> The Saudi-UAE coalition recently attacked Yemen's communication infrastructure, leaving all of Yemen without connection to the internet. Initial reports of Saudi-led strikes have high civilian casualties. People in the U.S. need to take action now. Join us on January 25 at 8PM ET to engage on social media and call our members of Congress. Attendees will be briefed on the situation on the ground at the beginning & given all the tools and language for taking action. Please RSVP and invite friends. We need all hands on deck." >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:04 AM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss > wrote: >>> Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to Ukraine. >>> >>> US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. >>> >>> At 3PM Central Time today, Jan. 25th, CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: >>> >>> Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 >>> Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. Larry Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. After ending his military career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War and has been a vocal opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before diplomacy. >>> >>> RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! >>> >>> The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the United States and Russia. We must immediately demand that NATO, the U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made with Russia, including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. >>> >>> RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. >>> >>> Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. They have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in Eastern Ukraine. >>> >>> Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" to Russia. NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly not be expanding to include Ukraine. >>> >>> Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have done, it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold War to an end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to expand eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once either Soviet republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. >>> >>> Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time to speak out is now! >>> >>> Join the webinar on the crisis in Ukraine and tell Congress not to let Biden send troops to Eastern Europe! >>> Towards peace, >>> Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, Carley, Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Wed Jan 26 01:48:30 2022 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:48:30 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Julian Assange coverage on "Mother of All Talkshows" In-Reply-To: <7314e9b6-2206-9047-bbd9-25243d4ad98f@forestfield.org> References: <7314e9b6-2206-9047-bbd9-25243d4ad98f@forestfield.org> Message-ID: <3ae8c125-b0cf-e026-5c90-7f50f18c3d96@forestfield.org> I wrote: > I'm sure that RT will have coverage of the event; RT is one of very few outlets that > do cover Assange and cover his plight well. You'll recall that RT's RUPTLY service > was there on-site to cover his forcible expulsion from the Ecuadorian embassy and > transfer to prison. He now sits in Belmarsh prison, in poor health and having > recently had a stroke, awaiting tomorrow's announcement. If you hadn't already heard: https://www.rt.com/news/546934-assange-uk-court-appeal/ begins: > On Monday, the British High Court granted WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange > permission to appeal against his extradition to the US. His legal team had > petitioned the court to allow him to challenge the extradition decision on points > of law of general public importance. > > It was ruled that Assange?s application to certify a point of law was legitimate. > > ?The point of law certified is: In what circumstances can an appellate court > receive assurances from a requesting state which were not before the court of > first instance in extradition proceedings,? court documents read. > > The case will now be reviewed by the UK Supreme Court. > > Speaking after the verdict, Assange?s fianc?e, Stella Moris, stated that it was an > important step. > > ?What happened in court today was precisely what we wanted to happen ? and that is > that the Supreme Court has good grounds to hear this appeal,? Moris told > reporters. From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Jan 26 01:51:08 2022 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:51:08 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Our peace lists. Message-ID: I?ve BCC?d you with the links. I will send you the stream of emails, you may then decide not to get involved. I wouldn?t blame you a bit. I wish now I hadn?t. Bottom line: Stuart sent an email related to a webinar by Code Pink, and I responded happily to hear from him, as I?d given up on the Peace List, not certain whether it was my system, or I know not what. I was then attacked by self absorbed John Watson, and Bob Naimen who positions himself as "anti-war activist." He?s paid by the Democrat Party, hates socialists, and lied about Jill Stein publicly to vilify her. He was caught on email giving instructions to say something that he knew wasn?t true. It was later published in Counterpunch, naming him. Anyway, my Irish got the better of me today. Thank goodness for Mort Brussel, the same age as Chomsky, and just as intelligent and spot. From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 02:03:20 2022 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:03:20 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: What's hilarious is how insistently stupid you are. It's like you're genetically addicted to being stupid. According to Medea, there were more than 500 people on the Ukraine call. There were 70 people on the Yemen call. You would acknowledge that I proved my point, if you weren't genetically addicted to being stupid, like a slavish follower of Jim Jones, who refused to stop drinking the Green Party Kool-Aid. On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 8:35 PM karen aram wrote: > Robert > > You?re really funny, you just learned about it today, based upon your > previous emails. > Your insistence, "it?s a distraction, your insistence the USG isn?t > insane," on and on > > Your insistence we listen to the webinar related to Yemen, which we?ve > known about for seven years with no change in direction from the US, our > government representatives, and our proxy the KSA in their goal of total > destruction, and control. > > But "oh my," you know more about this than I and I?m the one who is > "stupid and evil.? Come on, you can do better than that, threaten me with > bodily harm, as you have in the past. > Your misogyny betrays you. I?ll stop taunting you, when you stop with the > lies and propaganda, and stop addressing me. > > We should all thank Stuart for his email invitation to Code Pink?s webinar > enlightening Robert and hopefully others. > > > > On Jan 25, 2022, at 6:57 PM, Robert Naiman wrote: > > Karen, > > I know more about this than you do. > > Why do you taunt me with your evil stupidity? > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 5:40 PM karen aram wrote: > >> Robert >> >> You couldn?t be more wrong about the USG, we?ve destroyed how many >> nations in how many years? You?re right and they're not insane, they're >> just greedy, hegemonies, imperialists looking at profits and they don?t >> care how many lives they destroy. >> >> Obviously you haven?t been paying attention related to what is taking >> place in Ukraine, Russia and Nato. I?m referring to going beneath the >> surface, not just skimming the headlines. >> >> For starters: read Morton Brussel?s second paragraph below, he knows >> exactly what is taking place. >> >> Read or listen to the links I provided by experts in the field. >> >> Just listen to what "The Nation?s,? Katrina Vandenheuval has to say, on >> "Democracy Now," both of which are liberal Democrat media?s, not socialists >> nothing to be feared. Ray McGovern former CIA Analyst and advisor to the >> Reagan government, now retired and reformed. They are just two people who >> focus on what is taking place in the world, specifically the targets of US >> imperialism since at least 1917. >> >> And, if you think our nuclear missiles and Nato being spread across >> Europe isn?t dangerous, please understand: it takes only one, only one >> accident, and accidents do happen. >> >> >> On Jan 25, 2022, at 3:08 PM, Robert Naiman wrote: >> >> >> I'm not denigrating being concerned about what the U.S. is doing in >> Ukraine. I'm denigrating the scaremongering about "World War 3." That's >> nonsense. It's not how the U.S. behaves. It's not how Russia behaves. Proxy >> war is not the same thing as direct war. That doesn't mean that proxy war >> is ok. Proxy war is not ok. Proxy war is monstrous. It has >> destroyed country after country. But it's not a threat to Americans, which >> is why they do it and mostly get away with it. We should be honest about >> this. We should tell the truth about this. Lying about it isn't going to >> improve anything. You can temporarily get people excited. But you can't >> sustain activism like this. Nobody will stick with concern about Ukraine >> once they cut a deal and it's out of the headlines. It's ephemeral. It's a >> Shiny Object. It's not building anything. It's not doing anything about the >> big harms that U.S. foreign policy is causing. Millions of human beings on >> the brink of starvation in Yemen. Millions of human beings on the brink of >> starvation in Afghanistan. What is Ukraine compared to that? It's a >> nothingburger. How does jumping up and down about Ukraine help with that? >> It doesn't help with that. It doesn't do anything. >> >> Look at Syria. The U.S. was happy to mess around in Syria, promote >> sectarian civil war to undermine the regime. But when the Russians >> intervened directly, the U.S. said: "Oh, ok." They weren't going to fight >> Russia over Syria. >> >> They are not going to fight the Russians over Ukraine. >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 2:24 PM karen aram wrote: >> >>> Robert, >>> >>> You?re right about Yemen, it?s a terrible situation, one which was >>> created in 2015 by the Obama Administration, along with the destruction of >>> Libya and Syria. >>> >>> That doesn?t negate what is taking place in Ukraine on the borders of >>> Russia, which began during the Reagan Administration, became obvious during >>> the Obama Administration, and now has us on the verge of WW3. >>> >>> For those so certain the US isn?t insane, and won?t go to war with >>> Russia, you need to recognize the USG uses proxy?s and having Ukraine >>> destroyed in a proxy war doesn?t bother them at all. >>> >>> The provocations of Russia by Nato is urging regime change for another >>> Yeltsin, or force Russia to annex portions of Ukraine, the Donbass region >>> specifically, which could result in war with the potential for WW3. >>> >>> When experts on "foreign policy" are even more concerned now than ever >>> over this issue, denigrating those in this community showing the same >>> concern, is insulting. >>> >>> So here, be my guest, and educate yourself: >>> >>> I have more articles if anyone is interested. >>> >>> https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-crisis-us-toolboxes-are-empty/ >>> >>> https://raymcgovern.com/.../perfidious-albion-giving.../ >>> >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkYgXQo2aQs >>> >>> >>> https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/547244-head-of-german-navy-forced/ >>> >>> >>> https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/546815-ben-norton-americans-dont-want/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace < >>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>> If you believe that the United States is going to war with Russia over >>> Ukraine, please raise your hand. >>> >>> This is not how the U.S. Empire works. Did the U.S. go to war with >>> Russia over Syria? If the U.S. wasn't willing to go to war with Russia over >>> Syria, why would the U.S. be willing to go to war with Russia over Ukraine? >>> This is all Blob hype in the media to pressure Biden to be more aggressive. >>> But whatever Biden does, it's not going to be war with Russia. Biden is not >>> insane. They'll send some more military stuff, they'll deploy a few >>> thousand more troops to NATO countries in Eastern Europe, they'll impose >>> more economic sanctions on Russia, though not any that would badly hurt the >>> German economy, which means that they're not going to get carried away. >>> >>> Do you remember in grade school, when they said: "Pick on someone your >>> own size"? That's something the U.S. Empire NEVER does. Reagan talked tough >>> on the Soviet Union. Then he invaded Grenada, a country the size of >>> Champaign-Urbana. >>> >>> Here's why this matters. There is an "emergency" Codepink webinar today >>> at 8pm ET on the U.S.-Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. How >>> many people are going to go to both? Which is the real emergency, the Blob >>> media hype that can never result in a war with Russia because the people >>> running the U.S. are not insane, or Yemeni children starving to death >>> because the U.S. is helping the Saudi regime blockade Yemen, in violation >>> of Article I of the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of >>> 1973? >>> >>> Here is the real emergency Codepink webinar today for the people who >>> don't want to chase Shiny Objects in the Blob-dominated U.S. media: >>> >>> "Please join CODEPINK for #YemenCan'tWait Emergency On-Line Action with >>> a briefing from Yemenis. >>> Tues., Jan. 25, 5 PM (PT), 8 PM (ET) >>> RSVP HERE. >>> The Saudi-UAE coalition recently attacked Yemen's communication >>> infrastructure, leaving all of Yemen without connection to the >>> internet. Initial reports of Saudi-led strikes have high civilian >>> casualties. People in the U.S. need to take action now. Join us on January >>> 25 at 8PM ET to engage on social media and call our members of Congress. >>> Attendees will be briefed on the situation on the ground at the beginning & >>> given all the tools and language for taking action. Please RSVP and invite >>> friends. We need all hands on deck." >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:04 AM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss < >>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible >>>> deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to >>>> Ukraine. >>>> >>>> US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for >>>> Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. >>>> >>>> At *3PM Central Time *today, Jan. 25th, >>>> >>>> *CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: * >>>> >>>> *Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 >>>> * >>>> >>>> *Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin >>>> and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. *Larry >>>> Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of >>>> staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. *After ending his >>>> military career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War* and has >>>> been a vocal opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before >>>> diplomacy. >>>> >>>> *RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! >>>> * >>>> >>>> *The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 >>>> international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result >>>> in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the >>>> United States and Russia.* We must immediately demand that NATO, the >>>> U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated >>>> solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made >>>> with Russia, *including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a >>>> member of NATO.* >>>> >>>> RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in >>>> Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over >>>> Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. >>>> >>>> Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new >>>> escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have >>>> encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk >>>> II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. *They >>>> have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in >>>> Eastern Ukraine. * >>>> >>>> Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its >>>> borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, >>>> when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO >>>> membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" >>>> to Russia. >>>> >>>> *NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the >>>> dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly >>>> not be expanding to include Ukraine. * >>>> >>>> Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have >>>> done, it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold >>>> War to an end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to >>>> expand eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once >>>> either Soviet republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. >>>> >>>> *Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time >>>> to speak out is now! * >>>> >>>> *Join the webinar* >>>> on the crisis in >>>> Ukraine and *tell Congress not to let Biden send troops to Eastern >>>> Europe! >>>> * >>>> >>>> Towards peace, >>>> >>>> *Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, >>>> Carley, Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, >>>> Madison, Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, >>>> and Suzie * >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> >>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Jan 26 02:07:34 2022 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 20:07:34 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: LOL > On Jan 25, 2022, at 8:03 PM, Robert Naiman wrote: > > > What's hilarious is how insistently stupid you are. > > It's like you're genetically addicted to being stupid. > > According to Medea, there were more than 500 people on the Ukraine call. > > There were 70 people on the Yemen call. > > You would acknowledge that I proved my point, if you weren't genetically addicted to being stupid, like a slavish follower of Jim Jones, who refused to stop drinking the Green Party Kool-Aid. > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 8:35 PM karen aram > wrote: > Robert > > You?re really funny, you just learned about it today, based upon your previous emails. > Your insistence, "it?s a distraction, your insistence the USG isn?t insane," on and on > > Your insistence we listen to the webinar related to Yemen, which we?ve known about for seven years with no change in direction from the US, our government representatives, and our proxy the KSA in their goal of total destruction, and control. > > But "oh my," you know more about this than I and I?m the one who is "stupid and evil.? Come on, you can do better than that, threaten me with bodily harm, as you have in the past. > Your misogyny betrays you. I?ll stop taunting you, when you stop with the lies and propaganda, and stop addressing me. > > We should all thank Stuart for his email invitation to Code Pink?s webinar enlightening Robert and hopefully others. > > > >> On Jan 25, 2022, at 6:57 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: >> >> Karen, >> >> I know more about this than you do. >> >> Why do you taunt me with your evil stupidity? >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 5:40 PM karen aram > wrote: >> Robert >> >> You couldn?t be more wrong about the USG, we?ve destroyed how many nations in how many years? You?re right and they're not insane, they're just greedy, hegemonies, imperialists looking at profits and they don?t care how many lives they destroy. >> >> Obviously you haven?t been paying attention related to what is taking place in Ukraine, Russia and Nato. I?m referring to going beneath the surface, not just skimming the headlines. >> >> For starters: read Morton Brussel?s second paragraph below, he knows exactly what is taking place. >> >> Read or listen to the links I provided by experts in the field. >> >> Just listen to what "The Nation?s,? Katrina Vandenheuval has to say, on "Democracy Now," both of which are liberal Democrat media?s, not socialists nothing to be feared. Ray McGovern former CIA Analyst and advisor to the Reagan government, now retired and reformed. They are just two people who focus on what is taking place in the world, specifically the targets of US imperialism since at least 1917. >> >> And, if you think our nuclear missiles and Nato being spread across Europe isn?t dangerous, please understand: it takes only one, only one accident, and accidents do happen. >> >> >>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 3:08 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: >>> >>> >>> I'm not denigrating being concerned about what the U.S. is doing in Ukraine. I'm denigrating the scaremongering about "World War 3." That's nonsense. It's not how the U.S. behaves. It's not how Russia behaves. Proxy war is not the same thing as direct war. That doesn't mean that proxy war is ok. Proxy war is not ok. Proxy war is monstrous. It has destroyed country after country. But it's not a threat to Americans, which is why they do it and mostly get away with it. We should be honest about this. We should tell the truth about this. Lying about it isn't going to improve anything. You can temporarily get people excited. But you can't sustain activism like this. Nobody will stick with concern about Ukraine once they cut a deal and it's out of the headlines. It's ephemeral. It's a Shiny Object. It's not building anything. It's not doing anything about the big harms that U.S. foreign policy is causing. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Yemen. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Afghanistan. What is Ukraine compared to that? It's a nothingburger. How does jumping up and down about Ukraine help with that? It doesn't help with that. It doesn't do anything. >>> >>> Look at Syria. The U.S. was happy to mess around in Syria, promote sectarian civil war to undermine the regime. But when the Russians intervened directly, the U.S. said: "Oh, ok." They weren't going to fight Russia over Syria. >>> >>> They are not going to fight the Russians over Ukraine. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 2:24 PM karen aram > wrote: >>> Robert, >>> >>> You?re right about Yemen, it?s a terrible situation, one which was created in 2015 by the Obama Administration, along with the destruction of Libya and Syria. >>> >>> That doesn?t negate what is taking place in Ukraine on the borders of Russia, which began during the Reagan Administration, became obvious during the Obama Administration, and now has us on the verge of WW3. >>> >>> For those so certain the US isn?t insane, and won?t go to war with Russia, you need to recognize the USG uses proxy?s and having Ukraine destroyed in a proxy war doesn?t bother them at all. >>> >>> The provocations of Russia by Nato is urging regime change for another Yeltsin, or force Russia to annex portions of Ukraine, the Donbass region specifically, which could result in war with the potential for WW3. >>> >>> When experts on "foreign policy" are even more concerned now than ever over this issue, denigrating those in this community showing the same concern, is insulting. >>> >>> So here, be my guest, and educate yourself: >>> >>> I have more articles if anyone is interested. >>> >>> https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-crisis-us-toolboxes-are-empty/ >>> >>> https://raymcgovern.com/.../perfidious-albion-giving.../ >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkYgXQo2aQs >>> >>> https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/547244-head-of-german-navy-forced/ >>> >>> https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/546815-ben-norton-americans-dont-want/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> If you believe that the United States is going to war with Russia over Ukraine, please raise your hand. >>>> >>>> This is not how the U.S. Empire works. Did the U.S. go to war with Russia over Syria? If the U.S. wasn't willing to go to war with Russia over Syria, why would the U.S. be willing to go to war with Russia over Ukraine? This is all Blob hype in the media to pressure Biden to be more aggressive. But whatever Biden does, it's not going to be war with Russia. Biden is not insane. They'll send some more military stuff, they'll deploy a few thousand more troops to NATO countries in Eastern Europe, they'll impose more economic sanctions on Russia, though not any that would badly hurt the German economy, which means that they're not going to get carried away. >>>> >>>> Do you remember in grade school, when they said: "Pick on someone your own size"? That's something the U.S. Empire NEVER does. Reagan talked tough on the Soviet Union. Then he invaded Grenada, a country the size of Champaign-Urbana. >>>> >>>> Here's why this matters. There is an "emergency" Codepink webinar today at 8pm ET on the U.S.-Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. How many people are going to go to both? Which is the real emergency, the Blob media hype that can never result in a war with Russia because the people running the U.S. are not insane, or Yemeni children starving to death because the U.S. is helping the Saudi regime blockade Yemen, in violation of Article I of the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of 1973? >>>> >>>> Here is the real emergency Codepink webinar today for the people who don't want to chase Shiny Objects in the Blob-dominated U.S. media: >>>> >>>> "Please join CODEPINK for #YemenCan'tWait Emergency On-Line Action with a briefing from Yemenis. >>>> Tues., Jan. 25, 5 PM (PT), 8 PM (ET) >>>> RSVP HERE. >>>> The Saudi-UAE coalition recently attacked Yemen's communication infrastructure, leaving all of Yemen without connection to the internet. Initial reports of Saudi-led strikes have high civilian casualties. People in the U.S. need to take action now. Join us on January 25 at 8PM ET to engage on social media and call our members of Congress. Attendees will be briefed on the situation on the ground at the beginning & given all the tools and language for taking action. Please RSVP and invite friends. We need all hands on deck." >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:04 AM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss > wrote: >>>> Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to Ukraine. >>>> >>>> US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. >>>> >>>> At 3PM Central Time today, Jan. 25th, CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: >>>> >>>> Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 >>>> Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. Larry Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. After ending his military career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War and has been a vocal opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before diplomacy. >>>> >>>> RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! >>>> >>>> The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the United States and Russia. We must immediately demand that NATO, the U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made with Russia, including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. >>>> >>>> RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. >>>> >>>> Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. They have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in Eastern Ukraine. >>>> >>>> Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" to Russia. NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly not be expanding to include Ukraine. >>>> >>>> Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have done, it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold War to an end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to expand eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once either Soviet republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. >>>> >>>> Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time to speak out is now! >>>> >>>> Join the webinar on the crisis in Ukraine and tell Congress not to let Biden send troops to Eastern Europe! >>>> Towards peace, >>>> Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, Carley, Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace mailing list >>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Jan 26 02:13:07 2022 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 20:13:07 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: Oh, and I forgot David Swanson has been talking about this issue as well. This is recent: https://davidswanson.org/to-send-weapons-and-troops-to-ukraine-youd-have-to-be-a-stupid-son-of-a-biden/ > On Jan 25, 2022, at 8:07 PM, karen aram via Peace wrote: > > LOL > > > >> On Jan 25, 2022, at 8:03 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: >> >> >> What's hilarious is how insistently stupid you are. >> >> It's like you're genetically addicted to being stupid. >> >> According to Medea, there were more than 500 people on the Ukraine call. >> >> There were 70 people on the Yemen call. >> >> You would acknowledge that I proved my point, if you weren't genetically addicted to being stupid, like a slavish follower of Jim Jones, who refused to stop drinking the Green Party Kool-Aid. >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 8:35 PM karen aram > wrote: >> Robert >> >> You?re really funny, you just learned about it today, based upon your previous emails. >> Your insistence, "it?s a distraction, your insistence the USG isn?t insane," on and on >> >> Your insistence we listen to the webinar related to Yemen, which we?ve known about for seven years with no change in direction from the US, our government representatives, and our proxy the KSA in their goal of total destruction, and control. >> >> But "oh my," you know more about this than I and I?m the one who is "stupid and evil.? Come on, you can do better than that, threaten me with bodily harm, as you have in the past. >> Your misogyny betrays you. I?ll stop taunting you, when you stop with the lies and propaganda, and stop addressing me. >> >> We should all thank Stuart for his email invitation to Code Pink?s webinar enlightening Robert and hopefully others. >> >> >> >>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 6:57 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: >>> >>> Karen, >>> >>> I know more about this than you do. >>> >>> Why do you taunt me with your evil stupidity? >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 5:40 PM karen aram > wrote: >>> Robert >>> >>> You couldn?t be more wrong about the USG, we?ve destroyed how many nations in how many years? You?re right and they're not insane, they're just greedy, hegemonies, imperialists looking at profits and they don?t care how many lives they destroy. >>> >>> Obviously you haven?t been paying attention related to what is taking place in Ukraine, Russia and Nato. I?m referring to going beneath the surface, not just skimming the headlines. >>> >>> For starters: read Morton Brussel?s second paragraph below, he knows exactly what is taking place. >>> >>> Read or listen to the links I provided by experts in the field. >>> >>> Just listen to what "The Nation?s,? Katrina Vandenheuval has to say, on "Democracy Now," both of which are liberal Democrat media?s, not socialists nothing to be feared. Ray McGovern former CIA Analyst and advisor to the Reagan government, now retired and reformed. They are just two people who focus on what is taking place in the world, specifically the targets of US imperialism since at least 1917. >>> >>> And, if you think our nuclear missiles and Nato being spread across Europe isn?t dangerous, please understand: it takes only one, only one accident, and accidents do happen. >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 3:08 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I'm not denigrating being concerned about what the U.S. is doing in Ukraine. I'm denigrating the scaremongering about "World War 3." That's nonsense. It's not how the U.S. behaves. It's not how Russia behaves. Proxy war is not the same thing as direct war. That doesn't mean that proxy war is ok. Proxy war is not ok. Proxy war is monstrous. It has destroyed country after country. But it's not a threat to Americans, which is why they do it and mostly get away with it. We should be honest about this. We should tell the truth about this. Lying about it isn't going to improve anything. You can temporarily get people excited. But you can't sustain activism like this. Nobody will stick with concern about Ukraine once they cut a deal and it's out of the headlines. It's ephemeral. It's a Shiny Object. It's not building anything. It's not doing anything about the big harms that U.S. foreign policy is causing. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Yemen. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Afghanistan. What is Ukraine compared to that? It's a nothingburger. How does jumping up and down about Ukraine help with that? It doesn't help with that. It doesn't do anything. >>>> >>>> Look at Syria. The U.S. was happy to mess around in Syria, promote sectarian civil war to undermine the regime. But when the Russians intervened directly, the U.S. said: "Oh, ok." They weren't going to fight Russia over Syria. >>>> >>>> They are not going to fight the Russians over Ukraine. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 2:24 PM karen aram > wrote: >>>> Robert, >>>> >>>> You?re right about Yemen, it?s a terrible situation, one which was created in 2015 by the Obama Administration, along with the destruction of Libya and Syria. >>>> >>>> That doesn?t negate what is taking place in Ukraine on the borders of Russia, which began during the Reagan Administration, became obvious during the Obama Administration, and now has us on the verge of WW3. >>>> >>>> For those so certain the US isn?t insane, and won?t go to war with Russia, you need to recognize the USG uses proxy?s and having Ukraine destroyed in a proxy war doesn?t bother them at all. >>>> >>>> The provocations of Russia by Nato is urging regime change for another Yeltsin, or force Russia to annex portions of Ukraine, the Donbass region specifically, which could result in war with the potential for WW3. >>>> >>>> When experts on "foreign policy" are even more concerned now than ever over this issue, denigrating those in this community showing the same concern, is insulting. >>>> >>>> So here, be my guest, and educate yourself: >>>> >>>> I have more articles if anyone is interested. >>>> >>>> https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-crisis-us-toolboxes-are-empty/ >>>> >>>> https://raymcgovern.com/.../perfidious-albion-giving.../ >>>> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkYgXQo2aQs >>>> >>>> https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/547244-head-of-german-navy-forced/ >>>> >>>> https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/546815-ben-norton-americans-dont-want/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If you believe that the United States is going to war with Russia over Ukraine, please raise your hand. >>>>> >>>>> This is not how the U.S. Empire works. Did the U.S. go to war with Russia over Syria? If the U.S. wasn't willing to go to war with Russia over Syria, why would the U.S. be willing to go to war with Russia over Ukraine? This is all Blob hype in the media to pressure Biden to be more aggressive. But whatever Biden does, it's not going to be war with Russia. Biden is not insane. They'll send some more military stuff, they'll deploy a few thousand more troops to NATO countries in Eastern Europe, they'll impose more economic sanctions on Russia, though not any that would badly hurt the German economy, which means that they're not going to get carried away. >>>>> >>>>> Do you remember in grade school, when they said: "Pick on someone your own size"? That's something the U.S. Empire NEVER does. Reagan talked tough on the Soviet Union. Then he invaded Grenada, a country the size of Champaign-Urbana. >>>>> >>>>> Here's why this matters. There is an "emergency" Codepink webinar today at 8pm ET on the U.S.-Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. How many people are going to go to both? Which is the real emergency, the Blob media hype that can never result in a war with Russia because the people running the U.S. are not insane, or Yemeni children starving to death because the U.S. is helping the Saudi regime blockade Yemen, in violation of Article I of the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of 1973? >>>>> >>>>> Here is the real emergency Codepink webinar today for the people who don't want to chase Shiny Objects in the Blob-dominated U.S. media: >>>>> >>>>> "Please join CODEPINK for #YemenCan'tWait Emergency On-Line Action with a briefing from Yemenis. >>>>> Tues., Jan. 25, 5 PM (PT), 8 PM (ET) >>>>> RSVP HERE. >>>>> The Saudi-UAE coalition recently attacked Yemen's communication infrastructure, leaving all of Yemen without connection to the internet. Initial reports of Saudi-led strikes have high civilian casualties. People in the U.S. need to take action now. Join us on January 25 at 8PM ET to engage on social media and call our members of Congress. Attendees will be briefed on the situation on the ground at the beginning & given all the tools and language for taking action. Please RSVP and invite friends. We need all hands on deck." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:04 AM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss > wrote: >>>>> Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to Ukraine. >>>>> >>>>> US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. >>>>> >>>>> At 3PM Central Time today, Jan. 25th, CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: >>>>> >>>>> Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 >>>>> Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. Larry Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. After ending his military career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War and has been a vocal opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before diplomacy. >>>>> >>>>> RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! >>>>> >>>>> The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the United States and Russia. We must immediately demand that NATO, the U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made with Russia, including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. >>>>> >>>>> RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. >>>>> >>>>> Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. They have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in Eastern Ukraine. >>>>> >>>>> Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" to Russia. NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly not be expanding to include Ukraine. >>>>> >>>>> Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have done, it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold War to an end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to expand eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once either Soviet republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. >>>>> >>>>> Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time to speak out is now! >>>>> >>>>> Join the webinar on the crisis in Ukraine and tell Congress not to let Biden send troops to Eastern Europe! >>>>> Towards peace, >>>>> Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, Carley, Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbw292002 at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 02:18:10 2022 From: jbw292002 at gmail.com (John W.) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 20:18:10 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: The two of you have just proved my point once again, better than I could ever make the point. This list in microcosm is the world in macrocosm. You can call me "self-absorbed" if it gives you pleasure, Karen, and Robert can call us all "stupid" and "evil" if he wants to. But this jejune infighting is why "progressives" can have absolutely no power or effectiveness in the Real World. You'll never, ever learn. On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 7:36 PM karen aram via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: Robert > > You?re really funny, you just learned about it today, based upon your > previous emails. > Your insistence, "it?s a distraction, your insistence the USG isn?t > insane," on and on > > Your insistence we listen to the webinar related to Yemen, which we?ve > known about for seven years with no change in direction from the US, our > government representatives, and our proxy the KSA in their goal of total > destruction, and control. > > But "oh my," you know more about this than I and I?m the one who is > "stupid and evil.? Come on, you can do better than that, threaten me with > bodily harm, as you have in the past. > Your misogyny betrays you. I?ll stop taunting you, when you stop with the > lies and propaganda, and stop addressing me. > > We should all thank Stuart for his email invitation to Code Pink?s webinar > enlightening Robert and hopefully others. > > > > On Jan 25, 2022, at 6:57 PM, Robert Naiman wrote: > > Karen, > > I know more about this than you do. > > Why do you taunt me with your evil stupidity? > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 5:40 PM karen aram wrote: > >> Robert >> >> You couldn?t be more wrong about the USG, we?ve destroyed how many >> nations in how many years? You?re right and they're not insane, they're >> just greedy, hegemonies, imperialists looking at profits and they don?t >> care how many lives they destroy. >> >> Obviously you haven?t been paying attention related to what is taking >> place in Ukraine, Russia and Nato. I?m referring to going beneath the >> surface, not just skimming the headlines. >> >> For starters: read Morton Brussel?s second paragraph below, he knows >> exactly what is taking place. >> >> Read or listen to the links I provided by experts in the field. >> >> Just listen to what "The Nation?s,? Katrina Vandenheuval has to say, on >> "Democracy Now," both of which are liberal Democrat media?s, not socialists >> nothing to be feared. Ray McGovern former CIA Analyst and advisor to the >> Reagan government, now retired and reformed. They are just two people who >> focus on what is taking place in the world, specifically the targets of US >> imperialism since at least 1917. >> >> And, if you think our nuclear missiles and Nato being spread across >> Europe isn?t dangerous, please understand: it takes only one, only one >> accident, and accidents do happen. >> >> >> On Jan 25, 2022, at 3:08 PM, Robert Naiman wrote: >> >> >> I'm not denigrating being concerned about what the U.S. is doing in >> Ukraine. I'm denigrating the scaremongering about "World War 3." That's >> nonsense. It's not how the U.S. behaves. It's not how Russia behaves. Proxy >> war is not the same thing as direct war. That doesn't mean that proxy war >> is ok. Proxy war is not ok. Proxy war is monstrous. It has >> destroyed country after country. But it's not a threat to Americans, which >> is why they do it and mostly get away with it. We should be honest about >> this. We should tell the truth about this. Lying about it isn't going to >> improve anything. You can temporarily get people excited. But you can't >> sustain activism like this. Nobody will stick with concern about Ukraine >> once they cut a deal and it's out of the headlines. It's ephemeral. It's a >> Shiny Object. It's not building anything. It's not doing anything about the >> big harms that U.S. foreign policy is causing. Millions of human beings on >> the brink of starvation in Yemen. Millions of human beings on the brink of >> starvation in Afghanistan. What is Ukraine compared to that? It's a >> nothingburger. How does jumping up and down about Ukraine help with that? >> It doesn't help with that. It doesn't do anything. >> >> Look at Syria. The U.S. was happy to mess around in Syria, promote >> sectarian civil war to undermine the regime. But when the Russians >> intervened directly, the U.S. said: "Oh, ok." They weren't going to fight >> Russia over Syria. >> >> They are not going to fight the Russians over Ukraine. >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 2:24 PM karen aram wrote: >> >>> Robert, >>> >>> You?re right about Yemen, it?s a terrible situation, one which was >>> created in 2015 by the Obama Administration, along with the destruction of >>> Libya and Syria. >>> >>> That doesn?t negate what is taking place in Ukraine on the borders of >>> Russia, which began during the Reagan Administration, became obvious during >>> the Obama Administration, and now has us on the verge of WW3. >>> >>> For those so certain the US isn?t insane, and won?t go to war with >>> Russia, you need to recognize the USG uses proxy?s and having Ukraine >>> destroyed in a proxy war doesn?t bother them at all. >>> >>> The provocations of Russia by Nato is urging regime change for another >>> Yeltsin, or force Russia to annex portions of Ukraine, the Donbass region >>> specifically, which could result in war with the potential for WW3. >>> >>> When experts on "foreign policy" are even more concerned now than ever >>> over this issue, denigrating those in this community showing the same >>> concern, is insulting. >>> >>> So here, be my guest, and educate yourself: >>> >>> I have more articles if anyone is interested. >>> >>> https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-crisis-us-toolboxes-are-empty/ >>> >>> https://raymcgovern.com/.../perfidious-albion-giving.../ >>> >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkYgXQo2aQs >>> >>> >>> https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/547244-head-of-german-navy-forced/ >>> >>> >>> https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/546815-ben-norton-americans-dont-want/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace < >>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>> If you believe that the United States is going to war with Russia over >>> Ukraine, please raise your hand. >>> >>> This is not how the U.S. Empire works. Did the U.S. go to war with >>> Russia over Syria? If the U.S. wasn't willing to go to war with Russia over >>> Syria, why would the U.S. be willing to go to war with Russia over Ukraine? >>> This is all Blob hype in the media to pressure Biden to be more aggressive. >>> But whatever Biden does, it's not going to be war with Russia. Biden is not >>> insane. They'll send some more military stuff, they'll deploy a few >>> thousand more troops to NATO countries in Eastern Europe, they'll impose >>> more economic sanctions on Russia, though not any that would badly hurt the >>> German economy, which means that they're not going to get carried away. >>> >>> Do you remember in grade school, when they said: "Pick on someone your >>> own size"? That's something the U.S. Empire NEVER does. Reagan talked tough >>> on the Soviet Union. Then he invaded Grenada, a country the size of >>> Champaign-Urbana. >>> >>> Here's why this matters. There is an "emergency" Codepink webinar today >>> at 8pm ET on the U.S.-Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. How >>> many people are going to go to both? Which is the real emergency, the Blob >>> media hype that can never result in a war with Russia because the people >>> running the U.S. are not insane, or Yemeni children starving to death >>> because the U.S. is helping the Saudi regime blockade Yemen, in violation >>> of Article I of the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of >>> 1973? >>> >>> Here is the real emergency Codepink webinar today for the people who >>> don't want to chase Shiny Objects in the Blob-dominated U.S. media: >>> >>> "Please join CODEPINK for #YemenCan'tWait Emergency On-Line Action with >>> a briefing from Yemenis. >>> Tues., Jan. 25, 5 PM (PT), 8 PM (ET) >>> RSVP HERE. >>> The Saudi-UAE coalition recently attacked Yemen's communication >>> infrastructure, leaving all of Yemen without connection to the >>> internet. Initial reports of Saudi-led strikes have high civilian >>> casualties. People in the U.S. need to take action now. Join us on January >>> 25 at 8PM ET to engage on social media and call our members of Congress. >>> Attendees will be briefed on the situation on the ground at the beginning & >>> given all the tools and language for taking action. Please RSVP and invite >>> friends. We need all hands on deck." >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:04 AM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss < >>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible >>>> deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to >>>> Ukraine. >>>> >>>> US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for >>>> Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. >>>> >>>> At *3PM Central Time *today, Jan. 25th, >>>> >>>> *CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: * >>>> >>>> *Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 >>>> * >>>> >>>> *Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin >>>> and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. *Larry >>>> Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of >>>> staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. *After ending his >>>> military career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War* and has >>>> been a vocal opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before >>>> diplomacy. >>>> >>>> *RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! >>>> * >>>> >>>> *The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 >>>> international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result >>>> in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the >>>> United States and Russia.* We must immediately demand that NATO, the >>>> U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated >>>> solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made >>>> with Russia, *including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a >>>> member of NATO.* >>>> >>>> RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in >>>> Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over >>>> Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. >>>> >>>> Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new >>>> escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have >>>> encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk >>>> II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. *They >>>> have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in >>>> Eastern Ukraine. * >>>> >>>> Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its >>>> borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, >>>> when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO >>>> membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" >>>> to Russia. >>>> >>>> *NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the >>>> dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly >>>> not be expanding to include Ukraine. * >>>> >>>> Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have >>>> done, it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold >>>> War to an end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to >>>> expand eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once >>>> either Soviet republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. >>>> >>>> *Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time >>>> to speak out is now! * >>>> >>>> *Join the webinar* >>>> on the crisis in >>>> Ukraine and *tell Congress not to let Biden send troops to Eastern >>>> Europe! >>>> * >>>> >>>> Towards peace, >>>> >>>> *Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, >>>> Carley, Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, >>>> Madison, Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, >>>> and Suzie * >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> >>> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Jan 26 02:38:17 2022 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 20:38:17 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: John, you attacked me diminishing my postings as ?simple," because you couldn?t deal with the issue, they aren?t simple, but you don?t care to read or listen, you just want to excuse ?everyone," as if you are a spokesperson for everyone, for not taking an interest. Naiman now having learned from Media Benjamin, has something to talk about but still criticizes me for ?scaremongering,? with exactly what experts on Russia and anti-war are saying. I suppose I shouldn?t refer to US/Nato provocations as putting us on the threshold of WW3. I should just quote David Swanson as referring to it as placing us in a situation of "ABOUT TO FUCKING DIE ALONG WITH EVERY OTHER LIVING THING ON EARTH. Nuclear apocalypse is faster than climate apocalypse or imaginary meteors, but nobody survives it. Everything ends. The scientists last week said the Doomsday Clock is staying one tick away from midnight because the risk has never been higher.? Naiman is referring to me only, as "stupid and evil." You?re his pal agreeing with him as you did. As to my getting pleasure calling you self-absorbed, it gives me no pleasure but your insistence when I post something instead of looking at the issue, you attack the messenger, unless it?s another "progressive.? So I can now leave this waste of a ?Peace List/Peace Discuss List, with the exception of a few, knowing that you two and hopefully others provoked by the arguments, are well aware of what is taking place, and you can all jump on the anti-war bandwagon as if you invented it. Though you really should read the articles so you know what you?re talking about. > On Jan 25, 2022, at 8:18 PM, John W. wrote: > > > The two of you have just proved my point once again, better than I could ever make the point. This list in microcosm is the world in macrocosm. You can call me "self-absorbed" if it gives you pleasure, Karen, and Robert can call us all "stupid" and "evil" if he wants to. But this jejune infighting is why "progressives" can have absolutely no power or effectiveness in the Real World. You'll never, ever learn. > > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 7:36 PM karen aram via Peace > wrote: > > Robert > > You?re really funny, you just learned about it today, based upon your previous emails. > Your insistence, "it?s a distraction, your insistence the USG isn?t insane," on and on > > Your insistence we listen to the webinar related to Yemen, which we?ve known about for seven years with no change in direction from the US, our government representatives, and our proxy the KSA in their goal of total destruction, and control. > > But "oh my," you know more about this than I and I?m the one who is "stupid and evil.? Come on, you can do better than that, threaten me with bodily harm, as you have in the past. > Your misogyny betrays you. I?ll stop taunting you, when you stop with the lies and propaganda, and stop addressing me. > > We should all thank Stuart for his email invitation to Code Pink?s webinar enlightening Robert and hopefully others. > > > >> On Jan 25, 2022, at 6:57 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: >> >> Karen, >> >> I know more about this than you do. >> >> Why do you taunt me with your evil stupidity? >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 5:40 PM karen aram > wrote: >> Robert >> >> You couldn?t be more wrong about the USG, we?ve destroyed how many nations in how many years? You?re right and they're not insane, they're just greedy, hegemonies, imperialists looking at profits and they don?t care how many lives they destroy. >> >> Obviously you haven?t been paying attention related to what is taking place in Ukraine, Russia and Nato. I?m referring to going beneath the surface, not just skimming the headlines. >> >> For starters: read Morton Brussel?s second paragraph below, he knows exactly what is taking place. >> >> Read or listen to the links I provided by experts in the field. >> >> Just listen to what "The Nation?s,? Katrina Vandenheuval has to say, on "Democracy Now," both of which are liberal Democrat media?s, not socialists nothing to be feared. Ray McGovern former CIA Analyst and advisor to the Reagan government, now retired and reformed. They are just two people who focus on what is taking place in the world, specifically the targets of US imperialism since at least 1917. >> >> And, if you think our nuclear missiles and Nato being spread across Europe isn?t dangerous, please understand: it takes only one, only one accident, and accidents do happen. >> >> >>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 3:08 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: >>> >>> >>> I'm not denigrating being concerned about what the U.S. is doing in Ukraine. I'm denigrating the scaremongering about "World War 3." That's nonsense. It's not how the U.S. behaves. It's not how Russia behaves. Proxy war is not the same thing as direct war. That doesn't mean that proxy war is ok. Proxy war is not ok. Proxy war is monstrous. It has destroyed country after country. But it's not a threat to Americans, which is why they do it and mostly get away with it. We should be honest about this. We should tell the truth about this. Lying about it isn't going to improve anything. You can temporarily get people excited. But you can't sustain activism like this. Nobody will stick with concern about Ukraine once they cut a deal and it's out of the headlines. It's ephemeral. It's a Shiny Object. It's not building anything. It's not doing anything about the big harms that U.S. foreign policy is causing. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Yemen. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Afghanistan. What is Ukraine compared to that? It's a nothingburger. How does jumping up and down about Ukraine help with that? It doesn't help with that. It doesn't do anything. >>> >>> Look at Syria. The U.S. was happy to mess around in Syria, promote sectarian civil war to undermine the regime. But when the Russians intervened directly, the U.S. said: "Oh, ok." They weren't going to fight Russia over Syria. >>> >>> They are not going to fight the Russians over Ukraine. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 2:24 PM karen aram > wrote: >>> Robert, >>> >>> You?re right about Yemen, it?s a terrible situation, one which was created in 2015 by the Obama Administration, along with the destruction of Libya and Syria. >>> >>> That doesn?t negate what is taking place in Ukraine on the borders of Russia, which began during the Reagan Administration, became obvious during the Obama Administration, and now has us on the verge of WW3. >>> >>> For those so certain the US isn?t insane, and won?t go to war with Russia, you need to recognize the USG uses proxy?s and having Ukraine destroyed in a proxy war doesn?t bother them at all. >>> >>> The provocations of Russia by Nato is urging regime change for another Yeltsin, or force Russia to annex portions of Ukraine, the Donbass region specifically, which could result in war with the potential for WW3. >>> >>> When experts on "foreign policy" are even more concerned now than ever over this issue, denigrating those in this community showing the same concern, is insulting. >>> >>> So here, be my guest, and educate yourself: >>> >>> I have more articles if anyone is interested. >>> >>> https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-crisis-us-toolboxes-are-empty/ >>> >>> https://raymcgovern.com/.../perfidious-albion-giving.../ >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkYgXQo2aQs >>> >>> https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/547244-head-of-german-navy-forced/ >>> >>> https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/546815-ben-norton-americans-dont-want/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> If you believe that the United States is going to war with Russia over Ukraine, please raise your hand. >>>> >>>> This is not how the U.S. Empire works. Did the U.S. go to war with Russia over Syria? If the U.S. wasn't willing to go to war with Russia over Syria, why would the U.S. be willing to go to war with Russia over Ukraine? This is all Blob hype in the media to pressure Biden to be more aggressive. But whatever Biden does, it's not going to be war with Russia. Biden is not insane. They'll send some more military stuff, they'll deploy a few thousand more troops to NATO countries in Eastern Europe, they'll impose more economic sanctions on Russia, though not any that would badly hurt the German economy, which means that they're not going to get carried away. >>>> >>>> Do you remember in grade school, when they said: "Pick on someone your own size"? That's something the U.S. Empire NEVER does. Reagan talked tough on the Soviet Union. Then he invaded Grenada, a country the size of Champaign-Urbana. >>>> >>>> Here's why this matters. There is an "emergency" Codepink webinar today at 8pm ET on the U.S.-Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. How many people are going to go to both? Which is the real emergency, the Blob media hype that can never result in a war with Russia because the people running the U.S. are not insane, or Yemeni children starving to death because the U.S. is helping the Saudi regime blockade Yemen, in violation of Article I of the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of 1973? >>>> >>>> Here is the real emergency Codepink webinar today for the people who don't want to chase Shiny Objects in the Blob-dominated U.S. media: >>>> >>>> "Please join CODEPINK for #YemenCan'tWait Emergency On-Line Action with a briefing from Yemenis. >>>> Tues., Jan. 25, 5 PM (PT), 8 PM (ET) >>>> RSVP HERE. >>>> The Saudi-UAE coalition recently attacked Yemen's communication infrastructure, leaving all of Yemen without connection to the internet. Initial reports of Saudi-led strikes have high civilian casualties. People in the U.S. need to take action now. Join us on January 25 at 8PM ET to engage on social media and call our members of Congress. Attendees will be briefed on the situation on the ground at the beginning & given all the tools and language for taking action. Please RSVP and invite friends. We need all hands on deck." >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:04 AM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss > wrote: >>>> Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to Ukraine. >>>> >>>> US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. >>>> >>>> At 3PM Central Time today, Jan. 25th, CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: >>>> >>>> Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 >>>> Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. Larry Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. After ending his military career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War and has been a vocal opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before diplomacy. >>>> >>>> RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! >>>> >>>> The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the United States and Russia. We must immediately demand that NATO, the U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made with Russia, including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. >>>> >>>> RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. >>>> >>>> Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. They have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in Eastern Ukraine. >>>> >>>> Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" to Russia. NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly not be expanding to include Ukraine. >>>> >>>> Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have done, it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold War to an end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to expand eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once either Soviet republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. >>>> >>>> Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time to speak out is now! >>>> >>>> Join the webinar on the crisis in Ukraine and tell Congress not to let Biden send troops to Eastern Europe! >>>> Towards peace, >>>> Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, Carley, Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace mailing list >>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rstorm2 at illinois.edu Wed Jan 26 02:45:20 2022 From: rstorm2 at illinois.edu (Storm, Rachel) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 02:45:20 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar Message-ID: <33c70f36-885c-403e-ae3c-074a6f814dc9@email.android.com> I thought I exited this list a very long time ago. Can someone help remove me? And since I just read that thread I'll say this before I go: There's both room and necessity in considering the urgency of many issues simultaneously--one doesn?t actually have to choose. Conserve your time and don't fret over webinar attendance--trust me, it's hardly indicative of much. Name-calling, really? That's where we are? This may be as good a time as any to reflect upon why an anti-war listserv is so frequently seduced into waring with itself. The revolution starts at home after all. Take care. On Jan 25, 2022 8:08 PM, karen aram via Peace wrote: LOL On Jan 25, 2022, at 8:03 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: What's hilarious is how insistently stupid you are. It's like you're genetically addicted to being stupid. According to Medea, there were more than 500 people on the Ukraine call. There were 70 people on the Yemen call. You would acknowledge that I proved my point, if you weren't genetically addicted to being stupid, like a slavish follower of Jim Jones, who refused to stop drinking the Green Party Kool-Aid. On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 8:35 PM karen aram > wrote: Robert You?re really funny, you just learned about it today, based upon your previous emails. Your insistence, "it?s a distraction, your insistence the USG isn?t insane," on and on Your insistence we listen to the webinar related to Yemen, which we?ve known about for seven years with no change in direction from the US, our government representatives, and our proxy the KSA in their goal of total destruction, and control. But "oh my," you know more about this than I and I?m the one who is "stupid and evil.? Come on, you can do better than that, threaten me with bodily harm, as you have in the past. Your misogyny betrays you. I?ll stop taunting you, when you stop with the lies and propaganda, and stop addressing me. We should all thank Stuart for his email invitation to Code Pink?s webinar enlightening Robert and hopefully others. On Jan 25, 2022, at 6:57 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: Karen, I know more about this than you do. Why do you taunt me with your evil stupidity? On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 5:40 PM karen aram > wrote: Robert You couldn?t be more wrong about the USG, we?ve destroyed how many nations in how many years? You?re right and they're not insane, they're just greedy, hegemonies, imperialists looking at profits and they don?t care how many lives they destroy. Obviously you haven?t been paying attention related to what is taking place in Ukraine, Russia and Nato. I?m referring to going beneath the surface, not just skimming the headlines. For starters: read Morton Brussel?s second paragraph below, he knows exactly what is taking place. Read or listen to the links I provided by experts in the field. Just listen to what "The Nation?s,? Katrina Vandenheuval has to say, on "Democracy Now," both of which are liberal Democrat media?s, not socialists nothing to be feared. Ray McGovern former CIA Analyst and advisor to the Reagan government, now retired and reformed. They are just two people who focus on what is taking place in the world, specifically the targets of US imperialism since at least 1917. And, if you think our nuclear missiles and Nato being spread across Europe isn?t dangerous, please understand: it takes only one, only one accident, and accidents do happen. On Jan 25, 2022, at 3:08 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: I'm not denigrating being concerned about what the U.S. is doing in Ukraine. I'm denigrating the scaremongering about "World War 3." That's nonsense. It's not how the U.S. behaves. It's not how Russia behaves. Proxy war is not the same thing as direct war. That doesn't mean that proxy war is ok. Proxy war is not ok. Proxy war is monstrous. It has destroyed country after country. But it's not a threat to Americans, which is why they do it and mostly get away with it. We should be honest about this. We should tell the truth about this. Lying about it isn't going to improve anything. You can temporarily get people excited. But you can't sustain activism like this. Nobody will stick with concern about Ukraine once they cut a deal and it's out of the headlines. It's ephemeral. It's a Shiny Object. It's not building anything. It's not doing anything about the big harms that U.S. foreign policy is causing. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Yemen. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Afghanistan. What is Ukraine compared to that? It's a nothingburger. How does jumping up and down about Ukraine help with that? It doesn't help with that. It doesn't do anything. Look at Syria. The U.S. was happy to mess around in Syria, promote sectarian civil war to undermine the regime. But when the Russians intervened directly, the U.S. said: "Oh, ok." They weren't going to fight Russia over Syria. They are not going to fight the Russians over Ukraine. On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 2:24 PM karen aram > wrote: Robert, You?re right about Yemen, it?s a terrible situation, one which was created in 2015 by the Obama Administration, along with the destruction of Libya and Syria. That doesn?t negate what is taking place in Ukraine on the borders of Russia, which began during the Reagan Administration, became obvious during the Obama Administration, and now has us on the verge of WW3. For those so certain the US isn?t insane, and won?t go to war with Russia, you need to recognize the USG uses proxy?s and having Ukraine destroyed in a proxy war doesn?t bother them at all. The provocations of Russia by Nato is urging regime change for another Yeltsin, or force Russia to annex portions of Ukraine, the Donbass region specifically, which could result in war with the potential for WW3. When experts on "foreign policy" are even more concerned now than ever over this issue, denigrating those in this community showing the same concern, is insulting. So here, be my guest, and educate yourself: I have more articles if anyone is interested. https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-crisis-us-toolboxes-are-empty/ https://raymcgovern.com/.../perfidious-albion-giving.../ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkYgXQo2aQs https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/547244-head-of-german-navy-forced/ https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/546815-ben-norton-americans-dont-want/ On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace > wrote: If you believe that the United States is going to war with Russia over Ukraine, please raise your hand. This is not how the U.S. Empire works. Did the U.S. go to war with Russia over Syria? If the U.S. wasn't willing to go to war with Russia over Syria, why would the U.S. be willing to go to war with Russia over Ukraine? This is all Blob hype in the media to pressure Biden to be more aggressive. But whatever Biden does, it's not going to be war with Russia. Biden is not insane. They'll send some more military stuff, they'll deploy a few thousand more troops to NATO countries in Eastern Europe, they'll impose more economic sanctions on Russia, though not any that would badly hurt the German economy, which means that they're not going to get carried away. Do you remember in grade school, when they said: "Pick on someone your own size"? That's something the U.S. Empire NEVER does. Reagan talked tough on the Soviet Union. Then he invaded Grenada, a country the size of Champaign-Urbana. Here's why this matters. There is an "emergency" Codepink webinar today at 8pm ET on the U.S.-Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. How many people are going to go to both? Which is the real emergency, the Blob media hype that can never result in a war with Russia because the people running the U.S. are not insane, or Yemeni children starving to death because the U.S. is helping the Saudi regime blockade Yemen, in violation of Article I of the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of 1973? Here is the real emergency Codepink webinar today for the people who don't want to chase Shiny Objects in the Blob-dominated U.S. media: "Please join CODEPINK for #YemenCan'tWait Emergency On-Line Action with a briefing from Yemenis. Tues., Jan. 25, 5 PM (PT), 8 PM (ET) RSVP HERE. The Saudi-UAE coalition recently attacked Yemen's communication infrastructure, leaving all of Yemen without connection to the internet. Initial reports of Saudi-led strikes have high civilian casualties. People in the U.S. need to take action now. Join us on January 25 at 8PM ET to engage on social media and call our members of Congress. Attendees will be briefed on the situation on the ground at the beginning & given all the tools and language for taking action. Please RSVP and invite friends. We need all hands on deck." On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:04 AM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss > wrote: Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been delivered to Ukraine. US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support" for Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war. At 3PM Central Time today, Jan. 25th, CODE PINK will hold an emergency webinar: Click Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522 Join an emergency webinar discussion between CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin and retired Army Colonel Larry Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. Larry Wilkerson is a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. After ending his military career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War and has been a vocal opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism before diplomacy. RSVP FOR THE WEBINAR HERE! The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some 40,000 international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that could easily result in war between the world?s two most heavily armed nuclear states ? the United States and Russia. We must immediately demand that NATO, the U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated solution. There is every reason to believe that a compromise can be made with Russia, including a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. RSVP for today?s webinar and send a message to your representatives in Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want negotiations, not escalation. Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and NATO have encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its obligations under Minsk II, and to instead reassert absolute sovereignty over the Donbas region. They have supplied powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in Eastern Ukraine. Russia has always been opposed to NATO?s eastern expansion to its borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO. In 2008, when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied for NATO membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership "a direct threat" to Russia. NATO is a military alliance that should have dissolved with the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly not be expanding to include Ukraine. Rather than NATO dissolving with the Warsaw Pact, as it should have done, it has violated the agreements that brought the original Cold War to an end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping its promise not to expand eastward, it has added 11 member countries that were once either Soviet republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a massive war. The time to speak out is now! Join the webinar on the crisis in Ukraine and tell Congress not to let Biden send troops to Eastern Europe! Towards peace, Medea and the entire CODEPINK team: Alice, Allison, Ann, Ariel, Carley, Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly, Lauren, Leonardo, Madison, Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy, Olivia, Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Jan 26 03:11:13 2022 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:11:13 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Ben Norton's new platform, as he left The Grayzone..see his article on Multipolarista below: Message-ID: https://multipolarista.com/2022/01/22/cia-training-ukrainian-paramilitaries-kill-russians/ From stuartnlevy at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 03:53:08 2022 From: stuartnlevy at gmail.com (Stuart Levy) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:53:08 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: I wish I could also have been on tonight's call about Yemen.?? That seems like a fight that could be won in the near term. I don't know whether we can affect the frantic rhetoric over Russia.??? Maybe a little.?? Of course it isn't new, just more extreme.?? When Oliver Stone came to speak at Ebertfest in I think 2014, he was pointing out then, that politicians with support of media had returned to Cold War language.??? Even if it never turns into a hot war, marinating ourselves in aggrieved blood soaked rhetoric is bad for our already unhealthy national mind. I don't want to see advocates of addressing either cause dismissing people who want to address the other.??? It's pointlessly ugly. And as was pointed out on the Code Pink Ukraine call today, the latter influences the former: it will now be /harder/ to get Congress to close the Saudi/UAE war spigot because of the warmongering over Russia. I've taken (some) actions in support of Yemen and against our provision of weapons for the Saudis/UAE in the past.??? I'd be happy to take them in the future.?? I hadn't heard until this morning about tonight's Code Pink mobilization for action on Yemen. Robert, I hope you will continue letting the peace list know of events like that.?? It does us a good service, and may bring in some supporters. ???? Stuart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Jan 26 13:31:48 2022 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 07:31:48 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Good News!!! Message-ID: Germany and France, in an effort to deescalate tensions, are moving away from US efforts in Ukraine. They recognize the dangers inherent in such actions, let's hope other nations follow suit. My last posting on the ?Peace? List. From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 15:01:38 2022 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:01:38 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: I apologize to Karen Aram and Stuart Levy. We have a problem on Yemen at CODEPINK. The problem is Susan ?Medea? Benjamin. ?Medea? is undercutting Yemeni-American leadership on ending unconstitutional U.S. participation in the Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. There were 70 people last night on the ?emergency? CODEPINK event on Yemen organized by Danaka Katovich, who is the is the Middle East and Peace Collective coordinator for CODEPINK. The marquee presenter at Danaka?s event was Dr. Aisha Jumaan, the most prominent Yemeni-American expert speaking out and organizing against unconstitutional U.S. participation in the Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. There were 500 people yesterday afternoon on the ?emergency? CODEPINK event on Ukraine organized by Medea. Which was scheduled by Medea the same day as Daneka?s CODEPINK Yemen event, after Danaka had already scheduled the ?emergency? CODEPINK Yemen event. The marquee presenter at Medea?s event, which she scheduled against Danaka?s event, was Col. Larry Wilkerson. During Medea?s Ukraine event, Larry Wilkerson said ?Yemen War Powers,? because that?s who Larry Wilkerson is. But Medea never said ?Yemen War Powers,? because that?s who Medea is. Why is Medea doing this? Why is Medea undercutting Yemeni-American leadership on ending unconstitutional U.S. participation in the Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen? Ego? Ignorance? Is she jealous of Danaka, does she feel threatened by Danaka?s leadership? Is it some Green Party thing? I don?t know. On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 10:53 PM Stuart Levy wrote: > I wish I could also have been on tonight's call about Yemen. That seems > like a fight that could be won in the near term. > > I don't know whether we can affect the frantic rhetoric over Russia. > Maybe a little. Of course it isn't new, just more extreme. When Oliver > Stone came to speak at Ebertfest in I think 2014, he was pointing out then, > that politicians with support of media had returned to Cold War > language. Even if it never turns into a hot war, marinating ourselves in > aggrieved blood soaked rhetoric is bad for our already unhealthy national > mind. > > I don't want to see advocates of addressing either cause dismissing people > who want to address the other. It's pointlessly ugly. > > And as was pointed out on the Code Pink Ukraine call today, the latter > influences the former: it will now be *harder* to get Congress to close > the Saudi/UAE war spigot because of the warmongering over Russia. > > I've taken (some) actions in support of Yemen and against our provision of > weapons for the Saudis/UAE in the past. I'd be happy to take them in the > future. I hadn't heard until this morning about tonight's Code Pink > mobilization for action on Yemen. > > Robert, I hope you will continue letting the peace list know of events > like that. It does us a good service, and may bring in some supporters. > > Stuart > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Jan 26 15:11:04 2022 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 09:11:04 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: Robert, why would it be a "Green Party,? thing?" Medea Benjamin is a "Progressive Democrat,? unless something has changed. I wouldn?t know, since I?m no longer involved with the Green Party. > On Jan 26, 2022, at 9:01 AM, Robert Naiman wrote: > > > I apologize to Karen Aram and Stuart Levy. > > We have a problem on Yemen at CODEPINK. The problem is Susan ?Medea? Benjamin. ?Medea? is undercutting Yemeni-American leadership on ending unconstitutional U.S. participation in the Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. > > There were 70 people last night on the ?emergency? CODEPINK event on Yemen organized by Danaka Katovich, who is the is the Middle East and Peace Collective coordinator for CODEPINK. The marquee presenter at Danaka?s event was Dr. Aisha Jumaan, the most prominent Yemeni-American expert speaking out and organizing against unconstitutional U.S. participation in the Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. > > There were 500 people yesterday afternoon on the ?emergency? CODEPINK event on Ukraine organized by Medea. Which was scheduled by Medea the same day as Daneka?s CODEPINK Yemen event, after Danaka had already scheduled the ?emergency? CODEPINK Yemen event. > > The marquee presenter at Medea?s event, which she scheduled against Danaka?s event, was Col. Larry Wilkerson. During Medea?s Ukraine event, Larry Wilkerson said ?Yemen War Powers,? because that?s who Larry Wilkerson is. But Medea never said ?Yemen War Powers,? because that?s who Medea is. > > Why is Medea doing this? Why is Medea undercutting Yemeni-American leadership on ending unconstitutional U.S. participation in the Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen? Ego? Ignorance? Is she jealous of Danaka, does she feel threatened by Danaka?s leadership? Is it some Green Party thing? I don?t know. > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 10:53 PM Stuart Levy > wrote: > I wish I could also have been on tonight's call about Yemen. That seems like a fight that could be won in the near term. > > I don't know whether we can affect the frantic rhetoric over Russia. Maybe a little. Of course it isn't new, just more extreme. When Oliver Stone came to speak at Ebertfest in I think 2014, he was pointing out then, that politicians with support of media had returned to Cold War language. Even if it never turns into a hot war, marinating ourselves in aggrieved blood soaked rhetoric is bad for our already unhealthy national mind. > > I don't want to see advocates of addressing either cause dismissing people who want to address the other. It's pointlessly ugly. > > And as was pointed out on the Code Pink Ukraine call today, the latter influences the former: it will now be harder to get Congress to close the Saudi/UAE war spigot because of the warmongering over Russia. > > I've taken (some) actions in support of Yemen and against our provision of weapons for the Saudis/UAE in the past. I'd be happy to take them in the future. I hadn't heard until this morning about tonight's Code Pink mobilization for action on Yemen. > > Robert, I hope you will continue letting the peace list know of events like that. It does us a good service, and may bring in some supporters. > > Stuart > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkb3 at icloud.com Wed Jan 26 22:57:45 2022 From: mkb3 at icloud.com (Morton K. Brussel) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 16:57:45 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: PATRICK LAWRENCE: Russia's Red Line References: <4533494670.1086431986@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com> Message-ID: <61DE467C-6C12-4134-8022-631F772DB068@icloud.com> Patrick Lawrence is seeing the present situation with Russia/Ukraine/ColdWarII clearly. Worth serious reading, especialy now that the Biden blob is ignoring the basic security demands of the Kremlin. And then there?s China. https://consortiumnews.com/2022/01/25/patrick-lawrence-russias-red-line/?unapproved=426054&moderation-hash=985eb25d2df20019a473977175161e76#comment-426054 ?mkb > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Consortium News > Subject: PATRICK LAWRENCE: Russia's Red Line > Date: January 26, 2022 at 1:54:04 PM CST > To: mkb3 at icloud.com > Reply-To: info at consortiumnews.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PATRICK LAWRENCE: > Russia?s Red Line > > > It is absolutely necessary that Moscow holds the line for the sake of a new security order in Europe and a sustainably stable world order in our time. > Read here... > > > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Guant?namo?s Forever > Elusive Endgame > > > From the very beginning, writes Karen J. Greenberg, the courthouse at that U.S. base on the island of Cuba has served as a revealing symbol of the prison?s venality. Read here... > > > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > In the Dark Political > Prisoners Wish for Light > > > Vijay Prashad scans a world full of political prisoners and conveys a message from one of them in Casa Blanca. Read here... > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > You can make a donation to Consortium News by > > credit card online or by mailing a check to > > Consortium for Independent Journalism (CIJ) > 2200 Wilson Blvd. > Suite 102-231 > Arlington, VA 22201 > > (For readers wanting to use PayPal , > you can send contributions to our account, which is named "consortnew at aol.com"). > > CIJ is a 501-c-3 tax-exempt organization, so your donations may be tax-deductible in the United States. (You also can direct donations to us through your company's charitible-giving programs.) > > > www.consortiumnews.com > > > > To remove yourself from this list, click here . > To contact Consortiumnews.com, click here . > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Thu Jan 27 00:31:40 2022 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 18:31:40 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] PATRICK LAWRENCE: Russia's Red Line In-Reply-To: <61DE467C-6C12-4134-8022-631F772DB068@icloud.com> References: <4533494670.1086431986@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com> <61DE467C-6C12-4134-8022-631F772DB068@icloud.com> Message-ID: Thank you, an excellent article. Patrick Lawrence and Consortium News have high credibility. > On Jan 26, 2022, at 4:57 PM, Morton K. Brussel wrote: > > Patrick Lawrence is seeing the present situation with Russia/Ukraine/ColdWarII clearly. Worth serious reading, especialy now that the Biden blob is ignoring the basic security demands of the Kremlin. And then there?s China. > > https://consortiumnews.com/2022/01/25/patrick-lawrence-russias-red-line/?unapproved=426054&moderation-hash=985eb25d2df20019a473977175161e76#comment-426054 > > ?mkb > >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> From: Consortium News > >> Subject: PATRICK LAWRENCE: Russia's Red Line >> Date: January 26, 2022 at 1:54:04 PM CST >> To: mkb3 at icloud.com >> Reply-To: info at consortiumnews.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> PATRICK LAWRENCE: >> Russia?s Red Line >> >> >> It is absolutely necessary that Moscow holds the line for the sake of a new security order in Europe and a sustainably stable world order in our time. >> Read here... >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> >> Guant?namo?s Forever >> Elusive Endgame >> >> >> From the very beginning, writes Karen J. Greenberg, the courthouse at that U.S. base on the island of Cuba has served as a revealing symbol of the prison?s venality. Read here... >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> >> In the Dark Political >> Prisoners Wish for Light >> >> >> Vijay Prashad scans a world full of political prisoners and conveys a message from one of them in Casa Blanca. Read here... >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> You can make a donation to Consortium News by >> >> credit card online or by mailing a check to >> >> Consortium for Independent Journalism (CIJ) >> 2200 Wilson Blvd. >> Suite 102-231 >> Arlington, VA 22201 >> >> (For readers wanting to use PayPal , >> you can send contributions to our account, which is named "consortnew at aol.com "). >> >> CIJ is a 501-c-3 tax-exempt organization, so your donations may be tax-deductible in the United States. (You also can direct donations to us through your company's charitible-giving programs.) >> >> >> www.consortiumnews.com >> >> >> >> To remove yourself from this list, click here . >> To contact Consortiumnews.com , click here . >> >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Thu Jan 27 04:47:21 2022 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 22:47:21 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?=22Progressives_like_DN_encouraged_war?= =?utf-8?q?_by_parroting_Russiagate_propaganda_and_excluding_dissenting_vo?= =?utf-8?q?ices=22_--_Aaron_Mat=C3=A9?= In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: karen aram via Peace-discuss wrote: > Just listen to what "The Nation?s,? Katrina Vandenheuval has to say, on "Democracy > Now," both of which are liberal Democrat media?s, not socialists nothing to be > feared. Aaron Mat?, who started at Democracy Now and left DN in part because of how DN was cheering on war (essentially), posted the following in a series of posts on twitter.com: https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1486088112778268675 starts the thread and reads: > Amy Goodman of @democracynow asks "where are the progressives?" on stopping war in > Ukraine. The answer is that progressives like DN encouraged war by parroting > Russiagate propaganda and excluding dissenting voices, e.g. the late Stephen F. > Cohen, barred from DN after April 2017. Katrina vanden Heuvel & Stephen F. Cohen's were married. He died in 2020. There are other posts in Mat?'s thread including screenshots of DN pieces to back up his point. I found it interesting; Aaron Mat?'s and Karen Aram's posts reminded me of just how DN has changed from challenging to serving the establishment. From karenaram at hotmail.com Thu Jan 27 14:33:04 2022 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (karen aram) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:33:04 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 3pm today: "EMERGENCY: Is the US going to war with Russia over Ukraine?" Code Pink webinar In-Reply-To: References: <6ced88ce-d1aa-dbdd-0f56-2bea28709d5a@gmail.com> Message-ID: Robert I wasn?t going to continue conversing on the Peace List, but your vilification of Medea Benjamin warrants a response: Your final paragraph vilifying Medea Benjamin as "undercutting Yemeni-American leadership on ending unconstitutional U.S. participation in the Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen? Ego? Ignorance? Is she jealous of Danaka, does she feel threatened by Danaka?s leadership? Is it some Green Party thing? I don?t know.? is disingenuous to say the least. Medea is not managed by any Party affiliation. Least of all the Green Party, who in spite of her activities and affiliation with the Party, has a very open/loose structure in respect to it?s organization, allowing all manner of political thought, often not representational. Medea has worked closely with other groups focused on "Anti-war," over the years. She is one of the sponsors of the "anti-Nato," protests in Washington DC today. The encroachment of Nato on Russia, is a very serious issue rivaling that of the Cuban Missile Crisis, which maybe why she scheduled the webinar related to Nato, as quickly as she did. Some, myself included, have had disagreement related to Medea on issues, trivial when viewing the big picture of her activities. She does not deserve your vilification of her, anymore than your vilification of me as "stupid and evil." Medea?s record and actions speaks for itself. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medea_Benjamin . I won?t be responding to any further communications. > On Jan 26, 2022, at 9:01 AM, Robert Naiman wrote: > > > I apologize to Karen Aram and Stuart Levy. > > We have a problem on Yemen at CODEPINK. The problem is Susan ?Medea? Benjamin. ?Medea? is undercutting Yemeni-American leadership on ending unconstitutional U.S. participation in the Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. > > There were 70 people last night on the ?emergency? CODEPINK event on Yemen organized by Danaka Katovich, who is the is the Middle East and Peace Collective coordinator for CODEPINK. The marquee presenter at Danaka?s event was Dr. Aisha Jumaan, the most prominent Yemeni-American expert speaking out and organizing against unconstitutional U.S. participation in the Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. > > There were 500 people yesterday afternoon on the ?emergency? CODEPINK event on Ukraine organized by Medea. Which was scheduled by Medea the same day as Daneka?s CODEPINK Yemen event, after Danaka had already scheduled the ?emergency? CODEPINK Yemen event. > > The marquee presenter at Medea?s event, which she scheduled against Danaka?s event, was Col. Larry Wilkerson. During Medea?s Ukraine event, Larry Wilkerson said ?Yemen War Powers,? because that?s who Larry Wilkerson is. But Medea never said ?Yemen War Powers,? because that?s who Medea is. > > Why is Medea doing this? Why is Medea undercutting Yemeni-American leadership on ending unconstitutional U.S. participation in the Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen? Ego? Ignorance? Is she jealous of Danaka, does she feel threatened by Danaka?s leadership? Is it some Green Party thing? I don?t know. > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 10:53 PM Stuart Levy > wrote: > I wish I could also have been on tonight's call about Yemen. That seems like a fight that could be won in the near term. > > I don't know whether we can affect the frantic rhetoric over Russia. Maybe a little. Of course it isn't new, just more extreme. When Oliver Stone came to speak at Ebertfest in I think 2014, he was pointing out then, that politicians with support of media had returned to Cold War language. Even if it never turns into a hot war, marinating ourselves in aggrieved blood soaked rhetoric is bad for our already unhealthy national mind. > > I don't want to see advocates of addressing either cause dismissing people who want to address the other. It's pointlessly ugly. > > And as was pointed out on the Code Pink Ukraine call today, the latter influences the former: it will now be harder to get Congress to close the Saudi/UAE war spigot because of the warmongering over Russia. > > I've taken (some) actions in support of Yemen and against our provision of weapons for the Saudis/UAE in the past. I'd be happy to take them in the future. I hadn't heard until this morning about tonight's Code Pink mobilization for action on Yemen. > > Robert, I hope you will continue letting the peace list know of events like that. It does us a good service, and may bring in some supporters. > > Stuart > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carl at newsfromneptune.com Fri Jan 28 03:16:03 2022 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 21:16:03 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Pepe Escobar on the 'Ukraine crisis' etc. Message-ID: [This excellent analysis of the geopolitics of the current 'Ukraine crisis' has two difficulties: (1) the author is being censored by Facebook; and (2) he writes in an allusive, elusive style developed in part perhaps to flummox the censors. It repays decoding. ?CGE] The fatal mistake committed by Brussels in 2014 was to force Kiev to make an impossible choice between Europe and Russia. A specter haunts the collective West: total zombification, courtesy of an across-the-board 24/7 psy ops imprinting the inevitability of ?Russian aggression?. Let?s pierce the fog of hysteria by asking Ukrainian Defense Minister Reznikov what?s going on: ?I can absolutely say that to date, the Russian armed forces have not created a strike group that could make a forceful invasion of Ukraine.? Well, Reznikov is obviously not aware that the White House, with access to arguably privileged intel, is convinced that Russia will invade ?any-minute-now?. The Pentagon doubles down: ?It?s very clear the Russians have no intention right now of deescalating?. Thus the necessity, expressed by spokesman John Kirby, of readying a multinational NATO response force (NRF) of 40,000 troops: ?If it is activated?to defeat aggression, if necessary?. So ?aggression? is a given. The White House is ?refining? military plans ? 18 at the last count ? for all manners of ?aggression?. As for responding ? in writing ? to the Russian proposals on security guarantees, well, that?s far too complex. There is no ?exact date? when it will be sent to Moscow. And the proverbial ?officials? have begged their Russian counterparts not to make it public. After all, a letter is not sexy. Yet ?aggression? sells. Especially when it may happen ?any-minute-now.? ?Analyst? hacks are yelling that Putin ?is now almost certain? to deliver a ?limited strike? in ?the next ten days?, complete with an attack on Kiev: that configures the scenario of an ?almost inevitable war?. Vladimir Dzhabarov, First Deputy Chairman of Russia?s Council Committee on International Affairs, prefers to get closer to reality: the U.S. is preparing a provocation to push Kiev to ?reckless actions? against Russia in the Donbass. That ties in with foot soldiers of the Luhansk People?s Republic reporting that ?subversive groups prepared by British instructors? arrived in the area of ??Lisichansk. Luminaries such as the European Commission?s Ursula von der Leyen, NATO?s Jens Stoltenberg and ?leaders? from the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Poland announced, after a video call, that ?an unprecedented package of sanctions? is nearly ready if Russia ?invades?. They billed it as ?international unity in the face of growing Russia hostility?. Translation: NATOstan begging Russia to please invade a.s.a.p. Of the EU 27, 21 are NATO members. The U.S. rules over the whole lot. So when the EU announces that ?any further military aggression against Ukraine would have very serious consequences for Russia?, that?s the U.S. telling NATO to tell the EU ?what we say, goes?. And under this strategy of tension environment, ?what we say? means applying raw, imperial Divide and Rule to keep Europe totally subjugated. The West?s fatal mistakes One should never forget that Maidan 2014 was an operation supervised by Obama/Biden. Yet there?s still plenty of unfinished business ? when it comes to bogging down Russia. So the viscerally Russophobic War Party in D.C. now has to pull all stops ordering NATOstan to cheerlead Kiev to start a hot war ? and thus trap Russia. Zelensky The Comedian even went on the record wanting to ?go on the offensive?. So time to release the false flags. The indispensable Alastair Crooke has outlined how ??encirclement? and ?containment? effectively have become Biden?s default foreign policy.? Not ?Biden?, actually ? but the amorphous combo behind the earpiece/teleprompter-controlled puppet I have been designating for over a year as Crash Test Dummy. Crooke adds, ?the attempt to cement-in this meta-doctrine currently is being enacted out via Russia (as the initial step). The essential buy-in by Europe is the ?party-piece? to Russia?s physical containment and encirclement.? ?Encirclement? and ?containment? have been exceptionalist staples, under various guises, for decades. The notion entertained by the War Party that it?s possible to carry both across a three-way-front ? against Russia, China and Iran ? is so infantile to render any analysis idle. It does call for a drink and a good laugh. As for extra sanctions for the imaginary ?Russian aggression?, a few benevolent souls had to remind Little Tony Blinken and other ?Biden? combo participants that Europeans would be much more lethally affected than Russians; not to mention these sanctions would turbo-charge the collective West?s economic crisis. A short recap is essential to frame how we ended up mired in the current hysteria swamp. The collective West blew the chance it had to build a constructive partnership with Russia similar to what it did with Germany after 1945. The collective West also blew it when reducing Russia to the role of a minor, docile entity, imposing that there?s only one sphere of influence on the planet: NATOstan, of course. And the Empire blew it when it targeted Russia even after it had allegedly ?won? against the USSR. During the 1990s and the 2000s, instead of being invited to participate in the construction of the ?common European home? ? with all its glaring faults ? post-Soviet Russia was forced to be outside looking in on how this ?home? was upgraded and decorated. Contrary to all the promises made to Gorbachev by assorted Western leaders, the traditional Russian sphere of influence ? and even former USSR territory ? became objects of dispute in the looting of the ?Soviet heritage?: merely a space to be colonized by NATO?s military structures. Contrary to Gorbachev?s hope ? who was naively convinced that the West would share with him the benefits of ?the dividends of peace? ? a hardcore Anglo-American neoliberal model was imposed over the Russian economy. Added to the disastrous consequences of this transition was the sentiment of national frustration by a society that was humiliated and treated like a vanquished nation in the Cold War, or WWIII. That was Exceptionalistan?s fatal mistake: to believe that with the USSR vanishing, Russia as a historic, economic and strategic reality would also disappear from international relations. The new pact of steel And that?s why War Inc., the War Party, the Deep State, however you wanna call them, are freaking out now ? big time. They dismissed Putin when he formulated a new paradigm in Munich in 2007 ? or when he returned to the Kremlin in 2012. Putin made it very clear that Russia?s legitimate strategic interests would have to be respected again. And that Russia was about to recover its de facto ?veto rights? in managing world affairs. Well, the Putin doctrine was already being implemented since the Georgian affair in 2008. Ukraine is a patchwork of morsels that belonged until recently to different empires ? Austro-Hungarian and Russian ? as well as several nations, such as Russia, Poland and Romania. It regroups Catholicism and Orthodoxy, and has millions of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers with deep historical, cultural and economic links with Russia. So Ukraine was a de facto new Yugoslavia. The fatal mistake committed by Brussels in 2014 was to force Kiev as well as the Ukrainian population as a whole to make an impossible choice between Europe and Russia. The inevitable result would have to be Maidan, completely manipulated by American intel, even as Russians clearly saw how the EU switched from the position of honest broker to the lowly role of American chihuahuas. Russophobic U.S. hawks will never renounce the spectacle of their historical adversary bogged down in a slow-burning fratricidal war in the post-Soviet space. As much as they will never renounce Divide and Rule imposed over a discombobulated Europe. And as much as they will never concede ?spheres of influence? to any geopolitical player. Without their toxic imprint, 2014 could have played in quite a different manner. To dissuade Putin to restore Crimea to its rightful place ? Russia ? it would have taken two things: for Ukraine to be decently managed after 1992, and not to force it to choose the Western camp, but to make it a bridge, Finland or Austria-style. After Maidan, the Minsk agreements were as close as possible to a viable solution: let?s end the conflict in Donbass; let?s disarm the protagonists; and let?s re-establish control of the borders of Ukraine while providing real autonomy to Eastern Ukraine. For all that to happen, Ukraine would have needed a neutral status, and a double security guarantee, by Russia and NATO. And to render the association agreement between Ukraine and the EU compatible with the close links between Eastern Ukraine and the Russian economy. All that would have perhaps configured a European vision of decent future relations with Russia. Yet the Russophobic Deep State would never allow it. And the same applied to the White House. Barack Obama, that cynical opportunist, was too engulfed by the dodgy Polish context in Chicago and not free from the exceptionalist obsession with deep antagonism to be able to build a constructive relationship with Russia. Then there?s the clincher, revealed by a high-level U.S. intel source. In 2013, the late Zbigniew ?Grand Chessboard? Brzezinski was presented with a classified report on Russian advanced missiles. He freaked out. And responded by conceptualizing Maidan 2014 ? to draw Russia into a guerrilla war then as he had done with Afghanistan in the 1980s. And here we are now: it?s all a matter of unfinished business. A final word on the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. In the 13th century, the Mongol Empire established its suzerainty over Kievan Rus ? that is, over the Christian orthodox principalities that correspond today to northern Ukraine, Belarus and part of contemporary Russia. The Tartar yoke over Russia ? from 1240 to 1552, when Ivan The Terrible conquered Kazan ? is deeply imprinted in Russian historical consciousness and in the debate about national identity. The Mongols separately conquered vast swathes of China, Russia and Iran. Centuries after Pax Mongolica, what an irony that the new pact of steel between these top three Eurasian actors is now an insurmountable geopolitical obstacle, smashing all elaborate plans by a bunch of trans-Atlantic historic upstarts. --Pepe Escobar From jbn at forestfield.org Sat Jan 29 02:51:58 2022 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 20:51:58 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Recommended videos for AWARE on the Air, News from Neptune, and Labor's World View TV Message-ID: <109f1392-02e7-47e8-08a4-d0570e8ed0c3@forestfield.org> Here are the videos I recommended to run during AWARE on the Air, News from Neptune, and Labor's World View TV. As a reminder: If anyone else has anything to run, please feel free to get your video pointers to UPTV (UPTV at urbanaillinois.us). I have continued to ask UPTV to prioritize AWARE members video pointers over mine for AWARE on the Air, Carl Estabrook & David Green's video pointers over mine for News from Neptune, and David Johnson's video pointers over mine for Labor's World View TV. Enjoy. -J News from Neptune & AWARE on the Air ================================================== RT https://youtube.com/watch?v=75meuwU5XQI (26m 27s) -- "Assange can appeal UK Supreme Court" with Chris Hedges interviewing John Pilger https://youtube.com/watch?v=kFxh0PQTpOg (28m 14s) -- "John Pilger on Ukraine, US tensions with Russia & China: An Enemy is Essential for US & Its Vassals!" https://youtube.com/watch?v=rwWH_zwrzsE (27m 46s) -- ?Corporations Are The Problem, Not The Solution!?- UN Special Rapporteur on Growing Global Hunger Empire Files https://youtube.com/watch?v=7mMsGi11F-U (11m 36s) -- "Native Hawaiians Fight US Navy for Polluting Island?s Water" https://youtube.com/watch?v=iyl_eWh-IS0 (8m 27s) -- "Navy Abandons Victims of Red Hill Fuel Leak" Grayzone https://youtube.com/watch?v=lBMKhhdg4jk (45m 13s) -- "US and UK escalate Russia war fever, but NATO splits over Ukraine emerge" https://youtube.com/watch?v=9AyL4CtUV3s (44m 2s) -- "Syria?s post-war recovery challenges US hegemony" https://youtube.com/watch?v=I3_Od3T-FlI (55m 9s) -- ""Smoking Gun" Analysis Finds US Sanctions Produce "War Time" Economy in Venezuela" https://youtube.com/watch?v=zkYgXQo2aQs (37m 12s) -- "US war lobby fuels conflict in Russia, Ukraine, and Syria: ex-Pentagon advisor" Labor's World View TV ================================================== More Perfect Union https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZkBwkToDBD0 (4m 34s) -- "How Debt-Based License Suspensions Criminalize Poverty" https://youtube.com/watch?v=El9Koi66xq4 (5m 12s) -- "Fake Pay Rate Scam EXPOSED" https://youtube.com/watch?v=K9FNnB3RTnQ (4m 49s) -- "8000+ King Sooper Workers Walk Out On Strike" https://youtube.com/watch?v=Biy6EiLQjPY (6m 57s) -- "Google Engineers Fired For Union Organizing Reveal the Dark Side of the Tech Giant" laborvideo https://youtube.com/watch?v=c-be9pAQAQs (32m 39s) -- "MLK Day Strike By NUHW Kaiser Mental Healthcare Workers To Stop Systemic Racism & To Provide Care" https://youtube.com/watch?v=q8I3vjfJG_8 (23m 46s) -- "Clover & The Class War In South Africa With GIWUSA Pres Mametlwe Sebei" https://youtube.com/watch?v=S-ILEb3h9s4 (17m 34s) -- "Labor One Year After Jan 6 Insurrection & Rise Of Fascism With Vermont AFL-CIO Pres David Van Deusen" Status Coup https://youtube.com/watch?v=T5nqWnBw6hs (56s) -- "Kroger CEO's Compensation is Over $23 Million When 63% of Their Workers Live In Poverty" https://youtube.com/watch?v=w9apTT8vgw4 (11m 19s) -- "Kroger Workers ON STRIKE - Survey Reveals SHOCKING Conditions of Employees" From carl at newsfromneptune.com Sun Jan 30 04:01:18 2022 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 22:01:18 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Censorship Message-ID: I think that?s correct. ?CGE From jbn at forestfield.org Sun Jan 30 22:43:36 2022 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2022 16:43:36 -0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Censorship In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6f41449e-8c63-5329-7697-92986acd1c34@forestfield.org> C. G. Estabrook wrote: > > > I think that?s correct. ?CGE This reliance on private entities is part of what makes these moves so troubling -- jumping from one private system to another is not liberation, it's seeking a different master in the hopes of not being censored too much or censored in ways that don't interfere with one's speech. Greenwald's move to Rumble (while still posting some videos on YouTube), Jimmy Dore's transition away from YouTube to Rumble, Grayzone's increased postings to Rokfin, and other moves all follow this pattern. The Internet is a scam of privatization; you can't do anything online without relying on private entities who can deplatform you and make it much harder for you to speak/write and be heard/read online. You can't evaluate any particular service provider until after they've been put to some tests -- like the US/UK governments and their apparatchiks put YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter to (all of those companies have failed those tests because they all succumbed to government's calls for increased censorship). Now apparently the pressure is on for Spotify to censor. In time, if enough people who speak and are heard use Rumble to convey their messages, Rumble too will be pressured. I think Greenwald recognizes this. He wrote: > The narrative about Rumble is particular bizarre since its Canadian founder and > still-CEO, Chris Pavlovski created Rumble in 2013 with apolitical goals[1] ? to allow > small content creators abandoned by YouTube to monetize their content ? and is > very far from an adherent to right-wing ideology [1] https://rumble.com/embed/v93iql/ But Greenwald seems to know that this is not something one can evaluate until after tests have been done: > That is why other platforms devoted to similar principles of free discourse, such > as Rumble for videos and Callin for podcasts, continue to thrive. It is certain > that those platforms will continue to be targeted by institutional liberalism as > they grow and allow more dissidents and heretics to be heard. Time will tell if > they, too, will resist these censorship pressures, but the combination of genuine > conviction on the part of their founders and managers, combined with the clear > market opportunities for free speech platforms and heterodox thinkers, provides > ample ground for optimism. However I'm unsure about Greenwald repeating the claim that enslaved "Uyghur Muslims from Xinjiang" are a group to focus on; Greenwald points to https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-china-suppliers-uyghur-muslims-forced-labor-report-2021-5#:~:text=Apple%20suppliers%20have%20used%20thousands,on%20forced%20labor%20in%20China . I don't have reliable information showing this to be significantly tied to Uyghur Muslims. But Greenwald's underlying point is still valid if we make a shift to another example -- there is plenty of horrible labor (perhaps slave labor) practice under Apple's control in its Foxconn and Pegatron manufacturing plants. My understanding of these manufacturers is that all of their assembly workers' lives are hell. It's disappointing to see that Greenwald is using Callin, a service where "live shows can be heard only with an iPhone and the Callin app ? the app will be very shortly available on Androids for universal use" because Greenwald is effectively pushing his audience (to some degree) toward getting an iPhone. This is a clear break with the sharp and largely correct criticism of Apple he put in the same article. It's hard to know what to recommend to Greenwald as a replacement until we know what he gets out of being on Callin and why he rejected other solutions. Big Blue Button (https://bigbluebutton.org/), Jitsi (https://jitsi.org/), and Jami (https://jami.net/) are free software chat apps that might be useful instead because they work with all of the major OSes (desktop & mobile). Apple and their supporters like to say that its outsourcing to these firms somehow prevents control over working conditions but that's obviously bullshit (and made clear in the book "Dying for an iPhone" which I highly recommend reading). Apple gets this labor via signed contracts which allow Apple inspectors to review as much of the process as they wish. Foxconn's major business is with Apple and this is a long known and mostly long-ignored practice by the US. "Dying for an iPhone" covers the reality of working at Foxconn well. PR-wise, well before the publication of that book you can see how poorly Apple has handled its response to this crisis dating back to Apple co-founder Steve Jobs (who has since died, leaving his position to the current Apple head Tim Cook) in https://youtube.com/watch?v=2gOu50HaEvs . For all of Jobs' alleged prowess in speaking to crowds, see the reality of his clumsiness in management and PR even with a lightweight tech questioner whose interests are never to seriously threaten any bigwig in the tech industry. Child labor is another major point of shame for all of the major tech firms including Apple. There's a lawsuit (https://www.rt.com/business/476110-apple-tesla-congo-child-labor/) in which Apple is one of the tech firms being sued by Congolese families. Getting back to who is currently pressuring Spotify and related notes: Neil Young pressured Spotify to choose between Neil Young and Joe Rogan (per https://www.rt.com/pop-culture/547308-neil-young-spotify-rogan/ and https://www.rt.com/pop-culture/547463-neil-young-spotify-rogan-choice/) for alleged "misinformation" Rogan gave on Rogan's Spotify show. Young has yet to identify precisely what language qualifies as misinformation here; nobody working with Young on this or supporting Young's call to kick Rogan off Spotify is quoting anything Rogan said that strikes them as misinformation. Jimmy Dore in https://youtube.com/watch?v=dTn9cHGPmUw points out that Young does not need Spotify's money because in January 2021, Variety reported that Young sold 50% of his song copyrights to Hipgnosis Song Management[1] which is now owned (at least partially) by The Blackstone Group since October 2021 (known for buying up single-family homes after the financial crisis of 2007-2008 to "devastating consequences" per a 2019 UN report). Blackstone allegedly abused tenants with "exorbitant fees, rent hikes, and aggressive eviction practices" which had a "disproportionate impact on communities of color, in part because the company targeted foreclosures resulting from subprime loans". In April 2020 the Wall St. Journal reported that Blackstone invested $2 billion in Alnylam Pharmaceuticals, a Massachusetts biotech firm[2]. This, more than Dore's unbacked allegation that Young is trying to get more sex from his wife Daryl Hannah, strikes me as being a more likely reason why Young would run defense for Blackstone's interest in the pharma company by issuing his ultimatum about deplatforming Joe Rogan to Spotify. [1] https://variety.com/2021/music/news/neil-young-sells-copyrights-publishing-hipgnosis-1234879122/ [2] https://www.wsj.com/articles/blackstone-invests-2-billion-in-alnylam-pharmaceuticals-11586774701 Later, news of Joni Mitchell came to light; she is removing her music from Spotify because Spotify hosts the Joe Rogan show (per https://www.rt.com/pop-culture/547730-joni-mitchell-spotify-rogan/). Perhaps in an effort to be relevant to younger people, we see a vague call for censorship or deplatforming Rogan come from Prince Harry & Meghan Markle who demand unspecified "changes" to Spotify: > Prince Harry and Meghan Markle have called on Spotify to alter its platform to > better address alleged Covid-19 misinformation, according to a statement released > through their group Archewell, which works to combat disinformation. The two have > a reported $25-million deal[1] with Spotify. > > ?Last April, our co-founders began expressing concerns to our partners at Spotify > about the all-too-real consequences of COVID-19 misinformation on its platform,? > a statement, released Sunday through an Archewell spokesperson, explained. > > The controversial royals claim they have continued to express concerns and have > demanded that Spotify ?meet the moment? by making ?changes.? > > ?We look to Spotify to meet this moment and are committed to continuing our work > together as it does,? the statement reads. > > The two did not specify what ?changes? they would like to see nor did they name > Rogan, whose podcast ?The Joe Rogan Experience? has come under heavy fire from > liberal activists and even some in the Joe Biden administration, for allegedly > helping to spread Covid-19 misinformation. Rogan has promoted alternative > therapies to Covid-19 vaccines and invited[2] on vaccine skeptics and critics for > longform discussions. > > Musicians like Neil Young[3], Joni Mitchell[4], and Nils Lofgren have all pledged > to remove their music from Spotify in protest at the platform exclusively hosting > his podcast, a deal which was reportedly[5] worth around $100 million. [1] https://www.rt.com/uk/509768-prince-harry-spotify-exclusive-podcast/ [2] https://www.rt.com/news/544762-twitter-suspends-robert-malone/ [3] https://www.rt.com/pop-culture/547701-young-spotify-responds-rogan/ [4] https://www.rt.com/pop-culture/547730-joni-mitchell-spotify-rogan/ [5] https://www.rt.com/op-ed/489388-joe-rogan-spotify-youtube/ Not only are the "changes" Harry & Meghan want unspecified, so too are any quotes indicating what they find to be "COVID-19 misinformation". The lack of specificity about the alleged 'misinformation' makes all of these claims from any of these celebrities entirely specious. I'm reminded of the #MeToo so-called "movement" -- allegations are apparently sufficient cause for media companies to take action. Allegations vague or specific fly around social media but there's no evidence to evaluate, no opportunity for review or debate following rules of evidence, punishments are inconsistent and undocumented. There's nothing like a trial going on in those cases (with the notable exceptions of Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein).