[Peace-discuss] An exchange
Boyle, Francis A
fboyle at illinois.edu
Fri Mar 4 18:30:12 UTC 2022
Thank you Karen. Fab.
Francis A. Boyle
Law Building
504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
Champaign IL 61820 USA
Phone: 217-333-7954
Fax: 217-244-1478
(personal comments only)
From: karen aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2022 12:17 PM
To: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com
Cc: Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu>; Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>; Ricky Baldwin <baldwinricky at gmail.com>; Levy, Stuart A <salevy at illinois.edu>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] An exchange
Please read the second, third and fourth paragraphs below, these are the solutions. Solutions that are critical to ending the war, and if implemented when some of us were suggesting they be implemented, there might not be a war. Waiting until it begins and then just bashing Putin, blaming Russia, isn’t going to stop the war. As Americans we need to take responsibility for that which we are responsible and stop blaming others.
From International Prof. Francis Boyle:
"Stop the war.
This war in Ukraine must be immediately terminated before it expands and sucks in the European NATO members and the United States.
Toward that end, President Joe Biden must publicly announce that NATO expansion is over for good and that Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova will not be joining NATO as member states.
Biden must also call for an international peace conference for the creation of a treaty that will establish the permanent neutrality of Ukraine guaranteed by the United Nations Security Council under Chapter 7 of the U.N. charter.
Then negotiations can take place between the United States and Russia over the de-nuclearization of Europe, including the removal of U.S. tactical nuclear weapons from NATO states that are there in violation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and a restoration of the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty that was so foolishly and recklessly terminated by the Trump administration.
Then a new round of the Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty negotiations should be conducted in order to substantially lessen the tensions on land, sea and air between Russia and the U.S./NATO states, including over the emplacement of alleged U.S. anti-ballistic missile sites in Europe that threaten Russia.
Make no mistake about it: The origins of World War I and World War II hover like twin Swords of Damocles over the heads of all humanity.
FRANCIS BOYLE
On Mar 4, 2022, at 8:41 AM, Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com<mailto:naiman.uiuc at gmail.com>> wrote:
At a certain point, you have to decide whether you want to be part of a consistent and principled opposition to the Empire or not. If you're defending Putin now, you've made your decision.
On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 9:35 PM karen aram <karenaram at hotmail.com<mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>> wrote:
Mort, sadly we’ve drawn out the wrath of Bob Naiman who now labels us "Putin advocates."
What’s interesting is this is the same form of vilification anti-war activists received during the Vietnam war. We were "anti-American for criticizing our government.” We were told to get a haircut and/or a job.
I’ve heard the anti-war activists of the ANSWER coalition were treated in the same manner, spit on, degraded for their "anti-Americanism," during the start of the Iraq war.
Jews protesting the treatment of Palestinians by Israel, were and are still labeled self hating Jews, if they're Jewish they can’t be vilified as anti-semitic, so self hating Jew is the usual slur. According to Noam Chomsky this slur against those questioning, goes back a very long way.
Those opposing the US covert military interventions bombing and killing in Syria are referred to as “Assadists." for supporting the Assad government.”
Those opposing the US bombing and destruction of Yemen, by our proxy’s no problem, because it’s the Saudi’s doing the dirty work, never mind they couldn’t do it without US weapons, training and logistics. So, it’s okay to keep up the concern for peace for Yemen, by contacting our Democrat Representatives to stop it. Given it’s been seven years now with no stopping and a lot of starvation, I would think a different tactic might be in order. But never mind, it should all be over soon, with the nation if not totally destroyed, in complete chaos, devastation and death. We can all cry for Yemen then.
So now, those of us calling attention over the past few months, weeks or eight years since 2014, to the US provocations of Russia, because they fear nuclear war with Nato encroaching closer to their borders every day, we’re referred to as "Putin advocates.”
It’s unfortunate no one was paying attention to us, and now we have war, many are crying and urging we pray for the Ukrainian people. As anti-war activists I think we know, if we know our history, prayer hasn’t been very successful at saving people, lest we forget we have the Holocaust to remind us.
What’s most interesting is in the past it was right wingers doing the name calling as they are the loyal patriots supporting, "my country right or wrong, blame the other guy." Now it’s the so-called liberal left.
On Mar 3, 2022, at 6:52 PM, Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com<mailto:naiman.uiuc at gmail.com>> wrote:
A good question for U.S. peace advocates to ask themselves right now is:
"Am I standing next to Putin's bombing of civilians in Ukraine right now?"
If you're standing next to Putin's bombing of civilians in Ukraine right now, why call yourself a peace advocate?
Why not just call yourself a Putin advocate?
If the shoe fits, wear it.
On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 7:08 AM karen aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
Mort
I couldn’t agree with you more. This has been my point, and you have said it so well. I’m pleased to see Colleen Rowley's statement supporting your views as well. It’s interesting in that she a former CIA legal expert sounds very much like Noam Chomsky, on this very topic in warning what may come if the USG doesn’t stop expanding Nato.
There are many of us taking this position, but unfortunately most people and some of the peace groups are focusing too much on simply “anti-war, stop the fighting.” Which is not going to solve the problem, when focusing on other nations, governments than their own. It provides a veneer of that which is not a simple, "russia is bad," that the USG and our corporate owned media promotes.
Thank you
On Mar 2, 2022, at 10:50 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu<mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
You might be interested. I thought I would wade into this blast at Russia by these peace groups. My initial remarks were to Marcy at CODEPINK, a group I’ve usually supported.
Mort
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Morton K. Brussel" <mkb0029 at gmail.com<mailto:mkb0029 at gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [wbw-discussion] CODEPINK Statement: Russian Troops Out, No NATO Expansion
Date: March 2, 2022 at 5:05:56 PM CST
To: Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com<mailto:winogradteach at gmail.com>>
Cc: "Morton K. Brussel" <mkb0029 at gmail.com<mailto:mkb0029 at gmail.com>>, "rowleyclan at earthlink.net<mailto:rowleyclan at earthlink.net>" <rowleyclan at earthlink.net<mailto:rowleyclan at earthlink.net>>, "<wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com<mailto:wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com>>" <wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com<mailto:wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com>>
Naive, and worse, in that the statement overlooks(?) and ignores the reason for this crisis in the first place. The US-NATO-Ukraine refusal to consider what Putin/Russia was reasonably demanding for strategic stability, its security. You don’t ask why there was such denial. And now we have a state of turmoil looking, as was the initial intention, to demean and demonize Russia. Who will profit for this?
On Mar 2, 2022, at 11:54 AM, Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com<mailto:winogradteach at gmail.com>> wrote:
Just to be clear, CODEPINK's principal positions are: Russian troops out of Ukraine, Ceasefire now, Negotiations without preconditions,
No NATO Expansion, Neutrality for Ukraine, No weapons to Ukraine, only humanitarian support; No blanket sanctions that will hurt
the Russian people as opposed to the oligarchs.
I disagree with those who condemn peace groups for opposing the war in Ukraine, the full-scale Russian invasion and high-alert nuclear
status. Putin's military aggression, not the peace movement's objection to war as a problem-solver, is what will empower NATO and the most
warmongering elements of our government. One can be anti-imperialist without being pro-war.
On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 7:04 AM rowleyclan at earthlink.net<mailto:rowleyclan at earthlink.net> <rowleyclan at earthlink.net<mailto:rowleyclan at earthlink.net>> wrote:
Exactly right, Morton! It's amazing how so much US-NATO imperialist history of illegal wars of aggression and inciting of violent regime changes in dozens of foreign countries (all to achieve their well-publicized goal since WWII of achieving unipolar, full spectrum dominance) is so quickly and fully erased in the minds of the various "peace" groups here, making their response to the situation in Ukraine so one-sided. This morphing of liberal "peace" groups and lessening of internal resistance to US-NATO's bloody trajectory (since the costs of war upon Americans were made nearly invisible after Vietnam<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/consortiumnews.com/2018/02/04/recipe-concocted-for-perpetual-war-is-a-bitter-one/__;!!DZ3fjg!vx7L-y_jDk6u1PVjhWHnYe0-jHXO2IryaMpdLIpYyYQ8asDgZuocpA2QjUlutAZzpA$>) already became more obvious with Obama-Hillary's continuation of post 9-11 wars and bombing of Libya and Syria.
But living in this imperial, exceptionalist and so effectively propagandized U.S.-NATO bubble makes it understandably difficult for most, even in the "peace movement" to remain fully empathetic with those foreigners experiencing the actual costs of war and objective/critical-thinking in their assessment of proportional blame for the current bloodshed. Unfortunately we see most "peace" groups here quite seduced by Samantha Power type "humanitarian imperialism," subsequently engaging more to protest the "enemy" Russia than to protest their own government's greater responsibility. Obviously it takes two to tango so it's true both sides bear some (although not equal) responsibility in launching this war. But the task for Americans should be to protest our own government's actions instead of demonizing/protesting Russia and siding, even somewhat siding, with U.S.-NATO's actions and continued war propaganda.
So while it IS fine and good for the Russian people to protest their own government's actions (and same for Ukrainians to protest their own government), it should be the same for Americans and Europeans, to protest their own governments' involvement. Americans who protest (the "enemy") Russia are just IMHO aiding and abetting U.S.-NATO's continued militarism and war plans, which almost always entail "leading from behind" by arming proxy forces, in this case using/exploiting poor Ukrainians.
Coleen Rowley
"Power is always dangerous. Power attracts the worst and corrupts the best." --Edward Abbey
-----Original Message-----
From: Morton K. Brussel <mkb0029 at gmail.com<mailto:mkb0029 at gmail.com>>
Sent: Mar 1, 2022 11:20 PM
To: Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com<mailto:winogradteach at gmail.com>>
Cc: Morton K. Brussel <mkb0029 at gmail.com<mailto:mkb0029 at gmail.com>>, <wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com<mailto:wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com>> <wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com<mailto:wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Re: [wbw-discussion] CODEPINK Statement: Russian Troops Out, No NATO Expansion
Marcy,
I consider the current conflict as a continuation of US determination to remain a unipolar hegemon, and Russia (and China, Cuba, Venezuela,…) is one of the few powerful nations to oppose it. Russia is therefore considered to be an enemy of the US, and thus all is acceptable to undermine it. A similar logic applies for China. NATO is an instrument of this US policy, and Ukraine is a useful agent to further US aims.
We all know that the US and NATO have violated international rules against aggressive wars multiple times, aggressions against Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan, not to mention Yugoslavia, Syria and Palestine. Now that Russia has struck back, we have this chorus of condemnation.
What is really at stake is whether the US can continue its imperial campaigns unhindered. Russia presents a major hindrance.
Yes, it is horrible that civilians are caught in the middle of this struggle, but the fundmental reasons for the struggle are geopolitical. To have a stable world politically, the vital security interests of both sides must be respected. This has not been done, despite claims that there always exist nonviolent and just solutions. In some sense, as Putin has claimed, the attack on Ukraine is defensive. He has come to understand the US determination to subdue Russia, and he is trying to negate it, to deal with it. “He" represents Russian interests. He may fail, but I sympathize with his quandary, just as I sympathize with those trapped in the middle of the conflict. Most people want peace, but not all, including the US administration and NATO which is delighted to have Ukrainians advance its ends.
I’m outraged by US policies. The resistance by Russia to US/NATO depredations are mostly welcome, and I regret what many on the left are doing by their harsh condemnations of Russia. The ubiquity of these condemnations by peace groups serves to strengthen and mitigate the imperial acts of the US/NATO complex. This, despite supposedly balanced criticisms of US/NATO policies by some of these groups.
—mkb
On Feb 28, 2022, at 7:30 PM, Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com<mailto:winogradteach at gmail.com>> wrote:
Morton, while there's no denying that NATO and the US have played a detrimental role in securing world peace & in encircling Russia and
going back on promises, etc., the bottom line is none of that excuses the Russian invasion of Ukraine---war, as we say, is not the answer. As for
the mention of Chernoybl, it must not be lost on any of us that there are 15 nuclear reactors in Ukraine, all of which pose a risk in normal times,
let alone during a war when weapons, even if not intended, can hit a reactor to contaminate land and water. Putin's decision to issue veiled threats
to launch nuclear weapons against NATO members and place his nuclear arsenal on high alert is way out of bounds and underscores the importance
of nuclear abolition. Marcy
On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 3:34 PM Morton K. Brussel <mkb0029 at gmail.com<mailto:mkb0029 at gmail.com>> wrote:
What is wrong with this statement is that it strongly condemns Russia, but only criticizes US/NATO, and too late in the statement at that.
NATO/US/Ukraine refused to consider the so-called red lines that Russia warned should not be crossed. It disregards the Russian point of view. It does not consider what the US would do if analogous threats were evident at US borders. Russia asserted in writing what it considered necessary conditions for its security, conditions ignored by NATO/US. Russia could back off no further. On a related issue Ukraine/US/NATO talked about the Minsk accords but in fact ignored those accords. Negotiations went nowhere.
So who is reponsible for what has now occurred? You have succumbed to a bandwagon of condemnation.
Moreover, alarmist and ignorant comments about the Chernobyl reactor are ill considered; Russian forces have been very much aware that its safety should be ensured. On the other hand, the nuclear issue should be front and center on everybody’s mind.
As for the rest, you make cogent points. But on the whole the statement is disappointing. Meanwhile, more weaponry, troops are flooding into the region and sanctions applied so as to weaken Russia, actions consistent with prior statements on various occasions that Russia (and China) are US enemies.
Very dangerous.
On Feb 28, 2022, at 2:40 PM, Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com<mailto:winogradteach at gmail.com>> wrote:
https://www.codepink.org/codepink_says_stop_the_war_in_ukraine_russian_troops_out_no_nato_expansion?fbclid=IwAR3LUenLt3rwZ890MA_wpP2ks3XB4kRlTRMqiwUTAchNWftxbkKxH1qdMHo<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.codepink.org/codepink_says_stop_the_war_in_ukraine_russian_troops_out_no_nato_expansion?fbclid=IwAR3LUenLt3rwZ890MA_wpP2ks3XB4kRlTRMqiwUTAchNWftxbkKxH1qdMHo__;!!DZ3fjg!v8exMLl1cgZ4LKAIfw-wIHjvr1ySfN51RqB6_jg0r3Y5h4zE5SWSaSO3VR5eKNuD9g$>
CODEPINK Says Stop the War in Ukraine: Russian Troops Out, No NATO Expansion
CODEPINK strongly condemns Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, where over 350,000 civilians have fled the country in fear of explosive weapons and missile attacks, while remaining residents from eastern to western Ukraine seek refuge in underground subways and bomb shelters. As an international peace organization, we call for an immediate ceasefire, negotiations without preconditions, withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine, an end to NATO expansion and a return to the negotiating table to address the security interests of all stakeholders. We stand in solidarity with the Ukrainian people under vicious attack and with the thousands of courageous Russian anti-war activists risking arrest and imprisonment to protest in the streets of Moscow and St. Petersburg.
There is no military solution to the conflict over Ukraine, a country caught in the crossfire between the United States and Russia, the world’s two most heavily armed nuclear nations. While we denounce Putin’s reckless veiled threat to launch nuclear weapons against NATO countries, we also recognize the United States government is culpable in the proliferation and deployment of nuclear weapons, and must reverse course on its decision to pursue nuclear rearmament and instead advance verifiable agreements for global nuclear disarmament.
In condemning Putin’s invasion of a sovereign country, the shelling of a Ukrainian hospital, the tanks closing in on Kyiv, we understand the U.S. has played a major role in exacerbating this conflict, facilitating a 2014 coup to overthrow the democratically elected leader of Ukraine and breaking promises not to expand NATO into Eastern Europe, where offensive missiles in Romania and Poland could reach Russia in minutes.
Though some will argue NATO is a defensive alliance of 30 countries, we view NATO as a threat to world peace with its military encirclement of Russia and support for U.S. military aggression in Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, where an estimated million died under a rain of bombs and millions more were displaced. NATO’s aggressive stance on China, another nuclear-armed nation, also threatens world peace and efforts to unite in the face of existential climate catastrophe.
In advance of the NATO summit in June, CODEPINK calls for an international security agreement to protect the interests of all Europeans to remain free from war and occupation. Such an agreement should have been forged after the fall of the Soviet Union and dissolution of the Warsaw Pact; instead the U.S. and NATO sought further militarization in a continuance of the Cold War that spawned multiple hot wars, from Korea to Vietnam.
To prevent further fighting in Ukraine, to stop the loss of life, bloodshed and grave environmental degradation from the bombing of munitions plants, let us return to the 2015 Minsk II agreement that established a blueprint for peace and an end to the civil war rocking eastern Ukraine. Ukraine should be a neutral country; its incorporation into NATO should be off the table as a starting point for diplomacy.
During this perilous time, when further military escalation could trigger a Chernobyl radioactive meltdown or push us to the brink of nuclear annihilation, we urge President Biden and Congress to stop the flow of weapons to Ukraine, offer humanitarian assistance and safe refuge instead, renew lapsed arms control treaties (Anti-Ballistic Missile, Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces, Open Skies) the U.S. abandoned with Russia, and reject the imposition of massive sanctions that will harm the Russian people who, like us, want peace and security.
Blanket sanctions on the entire Russian economy could spread economic and environmental hardship to Europe and potentially the global community with energy price hikes that may reduce energy consumption in the short term but prompt more oil drilling and lethal burning of fossil fuels in the long term.
In solidarity with anti-war protesters in Russia and across Europe, we call on the world’s peace-loving people, including conscripted front-line soldiers, to join us in a massive unified response to say:
No to War in Ukraine; Yes to Negotiations and Peace.
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Begin forwarded message:
From: "Morton K. Brussel" <mkb0029 at gmail.com<mailto:mkb0029 at gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [wbw-discussion] CODEPINK Statement: Russian Troops Out, No NATO Expansion
Date: March 2, 2022 at 5:05:56 PM CST
To: Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com<mailto:winogradteach at gmail.com>>
Cc: "Morton K. Brussel" <mkb0029 at gmail.com<mailto:mkb0029 at gmail.com>>, "rowleyclan at earthlink.net<mailto:rowleyclan at earthlink.net>" <rowleyclan at earthlink.net<mailto:rowleyclan at earthlink.net>>, "<wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com<mailto:wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com>>" <wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com<mailto:wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com>>
Naive, and worse, in that the statement overlooks(?) and ignores the reason for this crisis in the first place. The US-NATO-Ukraine refusal to consider what Putin/Russia was reasonably demanding for strategic stability, its security. You don’t ask why there was such denial. And now we have a state of turmoil looking, as was the initial intention, to demean and demonize Russia. Who will profit for this?
On Mar 2, 2022, at 11:54 AM, Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com<mailto:winogradteach at gmail.com>> wrote:
Just to be clear, CODEPINK's principal positions are: Russian troops out of Ukraine, Ceasefire now, Negotiations without preconditions,
No NATO Expansion, Neutrality for Ukraine, No weapons to Ukraine, only humanitarian support; No blanket sanctions that will hurt
the Russian people as opposed to the oligarchs.
I disagree with those who condemn peace groups for opposing the war in Ukraine, the full-scale Russian invasion and high-alert nuclear
status. Putin's military aggression, not the peace movement's objection to war as a problem-solver, is what will empower NATO and the most
warmongering elements of our government. One can be anti-imperialist without being pro-war.
On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 7:04 AM rowleyclan at earthlink.net<mailto:rowleyclan at earthlink.net> <rowleyclan at earthlink.net<mailto:rowleyclan at earthlink.net>> wrote:
Exactly right, Morton! It's amazing how so much US-NATO imperialist history of illegal wars of aggression and inciting of violent regime changes in dozens of foreign countries (all to achieve their well-publicized goal since WWII of achieving unipolar, full spectrum dominance) is so quickly and fully erased in the minds of the various "peace" groups here, making their response to the situation in Ukraine so one-sided. This morphing of liberal "peace" groups and lessening of internal resistance to US-NATO's bloody trajectory (since the costs of war upon Americans were made nearly invisible after Vietnam<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/consortiumnews.com/2018/02/04/recipe-concocted-for-perpetual-war-is-a-bitter-one/__;!!DZ3fjg!rqGCLR3hEZ8fxEXrec0z3FsREAPmaDf6bYSm2a5TPSU2awY4CY0yJ-zE7_xkvvxHhw$>) already became more obvious with Obama-Hillary's continuation of post 9-11 wars and bombing of Libya and Syria.
But living in this imperial, exceptionalist and so effectively propagandized U.S.-NATO bubble makes it understandably difficult for most, even in the "peace movement" to remain fully empathetic with those foreigners experiencing the actual costs of war and objective/critical-thinking in their assessment of proportional blame for the current bloodshed. Unfortunately we see most "peace" groups here quite seduced by Samantha Power type "humanitarian imperialism," subsequently engaging more to protest the "enemy" Russia than to protest their own government's greater responsibility. Obviously it takes two to tango so it's true both sides bear some (although not equal) responsibility in launching this war. But the task for Americans should be to protest our own government's actions instead of demonizing/protesting Russia and siding, even somewhat siding, with U.S.-NATO's actions and continued war propaganda.
So while it IS fine and good for the Russian people to protest their own government's actions (and same for Ukrainians to protest their own government), it should be the same for Americans and Europeans, to protest their own governments' involvement. Americans who protest (the "enemy") Russia are just IMHO aiding and abetting U.S.-NATO's continued militarism and war plans, which almost always entail "leading from behind" by arming proxy forces, in this case using/exploiting poor Ukrainians.
Coleen Rowley
"Power is always dangerous. Power attracts the worst and corrupts the best." --Edward Abbey
-----Original Message-----
From: Morton K. Brussel <mkb0029 at gmail.com<mailto:mkb0029 at gmail.com>>
Sent: Mar 1, 2022 11:20 PM
To: Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com<mailto:winogradteach at gmail.com>>
Cc: Morton K. Brussel <mkb0029 at gmail.com<mailto:mkb0029 at gmail.com>>, <wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com<mailto:wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com>> <wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com<mailto:wbw-discussion at googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Re: [wbw-discussion] CODEPINK Statement: Russian Troops Out, No NATO Expansion
Marcy,
I consider the current conflict as a continuation of US determination to remain a unipolar hegemon, and Russia (and China, Cuba, Venezuela,…) is one of the few powerful nations to oppose it. Russia is therefore considered to be an enemy of the US, and thus all is acceptable to undermine it. A similar logic applies for China. NATO is an instrument of this US policy, and Ukraine is a useful agent to further US aims.
We all know that the US and NATO have violated international rules against aggressive wars multiple times, aggressions against Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan, not to mention Yugoslavia, Syria and Palestine. Now that Russia has struck back, we have this chorus of condemnation.
What is really at stake is whether the US can continue its imperial campaigns unhindered. Russia presents a major hindrance.
Yes, it is horrible that civilians are caught in the middle of this struggle, but the fundmental reasons for the struggle are geopolitical. To have a stable world politically, the vital security interests of both sides must be respected. This has not been done, despite claims that there always exist nonviolent and just solutions. In some sense, as Putin has claimed, the attack on Ukraine is defensive. He has come to understand the US determination to subdue Russia, and he is trying to negate it, to deal with it. “He" represents Russian interests. He may fail, but I sympathize with his quandary, just as I sympathize with those trapped in the middle of the conflict. Most people want peace, but not all, including the US administration and NATO which is delighted to have Ukrainians advance its ends.
I’m outraged by US policies. The resistance by Russia to US/NATO depredations are mostly welcome, and I regret what many on the left are doing by their harsh condemnations of Russia. The ubiquity of these condemnations by peace groups serves to strengthen and mitigate the imperial acts of the US/NATO complex. This, despite supposedly balanced criticisms of US/NATO policies by some of these groups.
—mkb
On Feb 28, 2022, at 7:30 PM, Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com<mailto:winogradteach at gmail.com>> wrote:
Morton, while there's no denying that NATO and the US have played a detrimental role in securing world peace & in encircling Russia and
going back on promises, etc., the bottom line is none of that excuses the Russian invasion of Ukraine---war, as we say, is not the answer. As for
the mention of Chernoybl, it must not be lost on any of us that there are 15 nuclear reactors in Ukraine, all of which pose a risk in normal times,
let alone during a war when weapons, even if not intended, can hit a reactor to contaminate land and water. Putin's decision to issue veiled threats
to launch nuclear weapons against NATO members and place his nuclear arsenal on high alert is way out of bounds and underscores the importance
of nuclear abolition. Marcy
On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 3:34 PM Morton K. Brussel <mkb0029 at gmail.com<mailto:mkb0029 at gmail.com>> wrote:
What is wrong with this statement is that it strongly condemns Russia, but only criticizes US/NATO, and too late in the statement at that.
NATO/US/Ukraine refused to consider the so-called red lines that Russia warned should not be crossed. It disregards the Russian point of view. It does not consider what the US would do if analogous threats were evident at US borders. Russia asserted in writing what it considered necessary conditions for its security, conditions ignored by NATO/US. Russia could back off no further. On a related issue Ukraine/US/NATO talked about the Minsk accords but in fact ignored those accords. Negotiations went nowhere.
So who is reponsible for what has now occurred? You have succumbed to a bandwagon of condemnation.
Moreover, alarmist and ignorant comments about the Chernobyl reactor are ill considered; Russian forces have been very much aware that its safety should be ensured. On the other hand, the nuclear issue should be front and center on everybody’s mind.
As for the rest, you make cogent points. But on the whole the statement is disappointing. Meanwhile, more weaponry, troops are flooding into the region and sanctions applied so as to weaken Russia, actions consistent with prior statements on various occasions that Russia (and China) are US enemies.
Very dangerous.
On Feb 28, 2022, at 2:40 PM, Marcy Winograd <winogradteach at gmail.com<mailto:winogradteach at gmail.com>> wrote:
https://www.codepink.org/codepink_says_stop_the_war_in_ukraine_russian_troops_out_no_nato_expansion?fbclid=IwAR3LUenLt3rwZ890MA_wpP2ks3XB4kRlTRMqiwUTAchNWftxbkKxH1qdMHo<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.codepink.org/codepink_says_stop_the_war_in_ukraine_russian_troops_out_no_nato_expansion?fbclid=IwAR3LUenLt3rwZ890MA_wpP2ks3XB4kRlTRMqiwUTAchNWftxbkKxH1qdMHo__;!!DZ3fjg!v8exMLl1cgZ4LKAIfw-wIHjvr1ySfN51RqB6_jg0r3Y5h4zE5SWSaSO3VR5eKNuD9g$>
CODEPINK Says Stop the War in Ukraine: Russian Troops Out, No NATO Expansion
CODEPINK strongly condemns Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, where over 350,000 civilians have fled the country in fear of explosive weapons and missile attacks, while remaining residents from eastern to western Ukraine seek refuge in underground subways and bomb shelters. As an international peace organization, we call for an immediate ceasefire, negotiations without preconditions, withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine, an end to NATO expansion and a return to the negotiating table to address the security interests of all stakeholders. We stand in solidarity with the Ukrainian people under vicious attack and with the thousands of courageous Russian anti-war activists risking arrest and imprisonment to protest in the streets of Moscow and St. Petersburg.
There is no military solution to the conflict over Ukraine, a country caught in the crossfire between the United States and Russia, the world’s two most heavily armed nuclear nations. While we denounce Putin’s reckless veiled threat to launch nuclear weapons against NATO countries, we also recognize the United States government is culpable in the proliferation and deployment of nuclear weapons, and must reverse course on its decision to pursue nuclear rearmament and instead advance verifiable agreements for global nuclear disarmament.
In condemning Putin’s invasion of a sovereign country, the shelling of a Ukrainian hospital, the tanks closing in on Kyiv, we understand the U.S. has played a major role in exacerbating this conflict, facilitating a 2014 coup to overthrow the democratically elected leader of Ukraine and breaking promises not to expand NATO into Eastern Europe, where offensive missiles in Romania and Poland could reach Russia in minutes.
Though some will argue NATO is a defensive alliance of 30 countries, we view NATO as a threat to world peace with its military encirclement of Russia and support for U.S. military aggression in Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, where an estimated million died under a rain of bombs and millions more were displaced. NATO’s aggressive stance on China, another nuclear-armed nation, also threatens world peace and efforts to unite in the face of existential climate catastrophe.
In advance of the NATO summit in June, CODEPINK calls for an international security agreement to protect the interests of all Europeans to remain free from war and occupation. Such an agreement should have been forged after the fall of the Soviet Union and dissolution of the Warsaw Pact; instead the U.S. and NATO sought further militarization in a continuance of the Cold War that spawned multiple hot wars, from Korea to Vietnam.
To prevent further fighting in Ukraine, to stop the loss of life, bloodshed and grave environmental degradation from the bombing of munitions plants, let us return to the 2015 Minsk II agreement that established a blueprint for peace and an end to the civil war rocking eastern Ukraine. Ukraine should be a neutral country; its incorporation into NATO should be off the table as a starting point for diplomacy.
During this perilous time, when further military escalation could trigger a Chernobyl radioactive meltdown or push us to the brink of nuclear annihilation, we urge President Biden and Congress to stop the flow of weapons to Ukraine, offer humanitarian assistance and safe refuge instead, renew lapsed arms control treaties (Anti-Ballistic Missile, Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces, Open Skies) the U.S. abandoned with Russia, and reject the imposition of massive sanctions that will harm the Russian people who, like us, want peace and security.
Blanket sanctions on the entire Russian economy could spread economic and environmental hardship to Europe and potentially the global community with energy price hikes that may reduce energy consumption in the short term but prompt more oil drilling and lethal burning of fossil fuels in the long term.
In solidarity with anti-war protesters in Russia and across Europe, we call on the world’s peace-loving people, including conscripted front-line soldiers, to join us in a massive unified response to say:
No to War in Ukraine; Yes to Negotiations and Peace.
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