<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">Well, first what I agree with: The Democrats are not "friends and allies" of the working class. We need single payer and we need it not just yesterday generations ago. Ultimately the only solution is to take profit out of the game entirely. Independent oversight will still be necessary, even then. There is no end to the struggle. The bill that passed is not the one we needed, have needed for so long. There are serious problems with the bill as it stands, and it is by no means certain that those problems will not remain. It is very likely that the popular forces organized to pass this bill will gear down quite a lot now. Insurance companies will profit. The cards are definitely stacked against most people, who aren't well-to-do.<br><br>However, it does not follow that nothing can be accomplished in this
game. OSHA, for example, has saved thousands of lives, prevented many thousands of injuries and illnesses, almost certainly, and yet it was a compromise. <br><br>I must disagree with the assertion that nobody will be helped by this health care bill. Millions of people, among them members of my own family, will benefit from things like closing the Medicare doughnut hole, just for one example. That is why both CCHCC and CBHC, though they do not often see eye to eye, supported the bill in the end. Because "no compromise" means people will die, people will get sicker, who would not if we compromise.<br><br>I know, I know. In the long run if we do not get single payer, in fact if we do not overthrow capitalism and the state, people will sicken and die who would not. I'm just not thrilled about the chances of any of that at the moment. The idea that defeating this itty-bitty reform will raise expectations I
don't find convincing; more likely it will lower expectations, according to the pattern as I see it anyway. It is not enough for people to be angry. If it were, we'd have solved a lot of other problems by now, too. People also have to have some reason to believe that a particular effort will pay off in some way. People are not stupid, and they are very busy trying to stay afloat. Heaping all our eggs in the single payer basket is a very risky business indeed if you're already getting your lights shut off because of health care costs.<br><br>Look, the movement has to come first, not the bill. If the movement, the protest, the disruption, the organization, is there, then, sure, fight for the bill. But to say that passing this bill will quench the movement? What that says is the movement is pretty easily quenched. That is, it isn't there. Single payer has been out there for years - where are the
masses in the streets demanding it? I'm not slamming people. There's a lot going on, etc. I'm just saying the movement isn't there. Yet. Single payer polls well, sure, and I support it, but of all the people I know who have actually organized a single event around that proposal - most of them supported this bill.<br><br>That tells me a lot about what is possible.<br><br>Ricky<br>
<br>
"Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn<br><br>--- On <b>Sun, 3/21/10, unionyes <i><unionyes@ameritech.net></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: unionyes <unionyes@ameritech.net><br>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [cchcc-l] Saturday's Health Reform Update &Take Action!<br>To: "John W." <jbw292002@gmail.com><br>Cc: "Peace-discuss" <peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net><br>Date: Sunday, March 21, 2010, 5:45 PM<br><br><div id="yiv2017527096">
<style></style>
<div><font face="Arial">Here is the problem John,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">We have some really excellent well intentioned and hard
working activists for health care for all in both CCHCC and CBHC.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">With that said, I seem to perceive that many of these
activists are under the dellusion that the democratic party in general are their
" friends " and that they can " play " the political process to obtain their (
our ) objectives.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">What they fail to understand is that it is a rigged
game.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">We cannot compete in the political game
with the same failing startegies for two main reasons.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">1) We cannot match corporate money. WE need to hit
them ( the sell-out corporate dems ) where it hurts the most, deny them our
; volunteer campaign time ( phone banks, door to door, etc. ) and our
votes, and our money as well.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Look at organized labor this last election.
HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of rank and file Union members doing
phone banks and door to door for Obama and the Dems, and the votes of
Union members and their families ( which is a huge percentage of working class
votes since Union members have a much higher voter registration rate than
their non-Union counterparts ). This made ALL of the difference
in swing states like ; Indiana, Ohio, Iowa, Virginia, North Carolina, and
Florida, which would NOT have went to Obama otherwise.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">What was Organized Labor's pay back
?...</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Totally ignored and patronized by the Obama admin.
and the dems in general in regards to ANY of their issues ( in particular the
Employee Free Choice Act ).</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Basicly, a " thank you very much, fuck you
very much " response.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">In essence, this is what the dem poitician"s
attitude is ; That we are too stupid to realize that we are being played in a "
good cop / bad cop " game. They ( most dems and repubs ) are on the same
corporate team, playing against us ( WE THE PEOPLE ).</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">And that even if some of us realize that we
are being played, that we have no where else to go. That we won't vote
republican or for a third party.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">They think the majority of the American people
are sheep and that they can play both sides of the street ( corporate money and
the votes of the people ).</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Well time has shown who always wins out in that
scenario.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">2) We are allowing the corporate media
to control the narrative, that is, de<em>fine the issues.</em></font></div>
<div><em><font size="2" face="Arial"> This is what caused
Kucinich last week to cave-in.</font></em></div>
<div><em><font size="2" face="Arial"></font></em> </div>
<div><em><font size="2" face="Arial">3) Many activists think that some reform is
better than no reform, even when it harms the long-term
objective.</font></em></div>
<div><em><font size="2" face="Arial"></font></em> </div>
<div><em><font size="2" face="Arial">We all need to think and act outside the box.
NOT play by their rules. Define our own narrative by speaking the truth and
REFUSING to submit to compromise that harms the long-term
objective.</font></em></div>
<div><em><font size="2" face="Arial"></font></em> </div>
<div><em><font size="2" face="Arial">One manifestation of this should be our refusal
to support dems or ANY candidate for public office in the 2010 election who
take corporate money.</font></em></div>
<div><em><font size="2" face="Arial">The other practice ( in my opinion ) should be
to tell our ; friends family, neighbors, co-workers, etc. not just the previous,
but also to stop watching and listening to the corporate media for
information.</font></em></div>
<div><em><font size="2" face="Arial">It is all lies and distortions and most people
acknowledge this, but most still watch and listen to it out of
habit.</font></em></div>
<div><em><font size="2" face="Arial"></font></em> </div>
<div><em><font size="2" face="Arial">Just my opinions, but we MUST change the
strategies.</font></em></div>
<div><em><font size="2" face="Arial">Because the traditional tactics are NOT
working.</font></em></div>
<div><em><font size="2" face="Arial"></font></em> </div>
<div><em><font size="2" face="Arial">David Johnson</font></em></div>
<div><em><font size="2" face="Arial"></font></em> </div>
<div><em><font size="2" face="Arial"></font></em> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>From:</b>
<a rel="nofollow" title="jbw292002@gmail.com" ymailto="mailto:jbw292002@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=jbw292002@gmail.com">John W.</a>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="naiman.uiuc@gmail.com" ymailto="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=naiman.uiuc@gmail.com">naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Cc:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss List</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="kmedina67@gmail.com" ymailto="mailto:kmedina67@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=kmedina67@gmail.com">Karen Medina</a>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:35
PM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Peace-discuss] [cchcc-l]
Saturday's Health Reform Update &Take Action!</div>
<div><br></div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Robert Naiman <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=naiman.uiuc@gmail.com">naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">CBHC
is urging a yes vote, just like CCHCC.<br>See: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.cbhconline.org/index.html">http://www.cbhconline.org/index.html</a><br></blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div>Well, it's still not reform in any meaningful sense. It's a
demon-spawned death bill.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<div></div>
<div class="h5">On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Karen Medina <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:kmedina67@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=kmedina67@gmail.com">kmedina67@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>>
I am with you, David. This is not reform. This bill will hurt people<br>>
and help the insurance companies. The people need universal health<br>>
care.<br>><br>> I am surprised and confused as to why the CCHCC
supports the bill.<br>><br>> I am pretty sure Jim Duffet's group
members (for health care reform)<br>> do not support the
bill.<br>><br>> -karen medina<br><br></div></div><font color="#888888">--<br>Robert Naiman<br>Policy Director<br>Just Foreign
Policy<br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br></font>
<div>
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