<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>I'm with Dave and John on this one. The bill will prob not harm me. But it will totally screw my son and other working poor. Totally. I'll lay my cash on the line on that promise. <br><br>Sent from Sandra Ahten's iPhone<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div><br>On Mar 23, 2010, at 7:28 PM, "unionyes" <<a href="mailto:unionyes@ameritech.net">unionyes@ameritech.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="3">Thank You John !</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Meloyde you can believe anything you want, that Obama
is for the people and not the corporate interests, that he has ended the wars,
that he has restored civil liberties etc., but don't try to belittle many
of us who have led a lifetime of fighting for change ( including those of us
who helped Giraldo get elected ) and see this and other
issues as they really are.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Every industrialized country in the world has 100 %
universal public health care ( nobody without ) except the
U.S..</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">One of the richest countries in the world.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Obama is personally responsible for excluding all single
payer advocates from his health care conference and the national democratic
party excluded and then had arrested any single payer advocates who
attempted to address the Congressinal health care committees.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> <font face="Arial" size="2">I would support this recent bill IF it was a
step in the needed direction of a national single payer system.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">But all I see is ANOTHER corporate gift to the
corporate health insurance industry, like the bank bailouts that Bush began
and Obama supported before he was elected and continued to
support after he was elected.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">This bill entrenches the corporate insurance
industry and forces working class people to buy their over priced bullshit or
receive a fine.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">What will happen is that these people who are in
most need of health care will pay the fine ( being put under even more economic
hardship then they already are ) because the fine will be cheaper than the
private insurance premiums, and they will still be without needed
healthcare.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">And the Obama administration and other corporate
democrats plan on making additional cuts to Medicare and possibly raising the
eligibility age from 65 to 67.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Is this the Hope and Change we voted for
???</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">All I see is business as
usual !</font> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">What amazes me is how people who should know better
are so blinded and not see the corporate control of Obama and the
majority of the democratic party.</font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">David Johnson</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="jbw292002@gmail.com" href="mailto:jbw292002@gmail.com">John W.</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="illyes@uiuc.edu" href="mailto:illyes@uiuc.edu">Bob Illyes</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss List</a> ; <a title="discuss@lists.communitycourtwatch.org" href="mailto:discuss@lists.communitycourtwatch.org"><a href="mailto:discuss@lists.communitycourtwatch.org">discuss@lists.communitycourtwatch.org</a></a>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:03
PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Discuss] [Peace-discuss]
Fw: What hath got rot?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>On this list, three of us have been and are the harshest
critics of the new health care 'reform' bill: Carl, Dave Johnson, and
me. I'm curious which of the three of us has NOT, in the eyes of
Bob and Melodye, worked our asses off to try to make both the local
community and the larger society a better place, according to our lights and
talents. Name some fucking names.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The way I see it, most of the folks on this list have decent health
insurance, so they have the luxury of being "ambivalent" about the health care
bill, reminding us of its many virtues and counseling us to take a 'wait and
see' approach. I, on the other hand, have no health insurance, and will
NOT have Medicare when I'm 65 due to a quirk in the law over which I had and
have no control. I can't speak for Carl and Dave, but I have actually
suffered the indignity of sitting in the Frances Nelson Clinic, getting a
different doctor every time, KNOWING that there were tests not being performed
because Frances Nelson could not perform them in-house, and having pills
shoved at me which I KNEW would do no good but which were all that Frances
Nelson had to offer. Having to present proof of income documents over
and over so that even Frances Nelson's precious and scarce resources would not
be "wasted" on me. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>The only decent medical care I've received in LIFE was at
McKinley Clinic when I was a student at UIUC. They
have government-run, "socialized" medicine there; the doctors are on
salary and all the services are "free", even the prescription meds, paid for
by a student fee. There I finally found a physician (female - God bless
her) who cared about me as a human being, and ordered tests that were
based on what I as a patient NEEDED rather than on what I could afford or on
what paid the doctor the most money. Sadly, when I ceased to be a
student I could no longer avail myself of her services. God bless
her.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So I'm afraid I can't be as blase as the rest of you about this shitty
bill which leaves health insurance companies firmly in control. Nothing
at all has changed for me, not a God-damned thing. And you can bet that
if nothing has changed for me, it's not changing for millions of other
Americans who are not, perhaps, as articulate as I am.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Oh, yes, I forgot. Something HAS changed for me after all, or it
will in - what? 2014? I'll be mandated to purchase a terrible
private-sector health insurance plan, with money I don't have and with
deductibles and co-pays so high I won't ever be able to actually use it, or
else I'll be fined for my failure to purchase it. Please forgive me if I
don't see that as a benefit.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Yeah, I'll shut up now. Every time I try to talk personal realities
"on the ground" rather than abstractions, all the liberals' eyes start darting
around the room, looking for an escape route. Don't think I don't see
it.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>John W.<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote"> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Bob Illyes <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:illyes@uiuc.edu"><a href="mailto:illyes@uiuc.edu">illyes@uiuc.edu</a></a>></span>
wrote:</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div class="im">Melodye writes:<br><br>"It never ceases to amaze me how some
of the biggest critics (on every subject) coming out of the shadows have
done---- what?"<br><br></div>Precisely, Melodye.<br><br>Some pretext is
generally behind this lack of accomplishment. A "Christian" pretext is that
because of Original Sin it is not possible for a person to do good. A
"Marxist" pretext is that the middle class will always prevent political
progress, which isn't possible because the middle class is not yet
destroyed. Market Fundamentalism supplies its own unsubstantiated theology.
But don't be fooled. These are just excuses to hold in contempt those who do
their part to leave the world better rather than worse. These critics get
off on contempt. They attempt to set up abusive relationships with those who
would do good.<br><br>On a slightly different subject, I confess I have
never seen anything quite so revolting as the Social Darwinian arguments
coming from opponents of the efforts of our first black President and our
first woman Speaker. (Their race and gender have nothing to do with this,
right?) In the Gilded Age, it was seriously proposed that charity was vice,
because it lessened the pressure on those on the bottom to change their evil
ways. And now the new Gilded Age has arrived, with the same recycled
pseudo-scientific nonsense, that we all already get what we
deserve.....<br><font color="#888888"><br>Bob</font>
<div>
<div></div></div></blockquote>
<p>
</p><hr>
<p></p>_______________________________________________<br>Discuss mailing
list<br><a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.communitycourtwatch.org">Discuss@lists.communitycourtwatch.org</a><br>http://lists.communitycourtwatch.org/listinfo.cgi/discuss-communitycourtwatch.org<br></blockquote>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Announce mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Announce@lists.communitycourtwatch.org">Announce@lists.communitycourtwatch.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://lists.communitycourtwatch.org/listinfo.cgi/announce-communitycourtwatch.org">http://lists.communitycourtwatch.org/listinfo.cgi/announce-communitycourtwatch.org</a></span><br></div></blockquote><br />--
<br />This message has been scanned for viruses and
<br />dangerous content by
<a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is
<br />believed to be clean.
</body></html>