<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:43 PM, Melodye Rosales <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:melodye@nitrogendesign.com">melodye@nitrogendesign.com</a>></span> wrote:</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">OMG!! What the Hell?!! How did this commentary on the Health Care bill get side bared into a cornucopia of Socialist issues? I simply can't wrap my head around this----Bottom line---Carl and John and whomever else of like minds, don't like the Health Care Bill---I get it. Though I like you both, ---I seriously don't have time to wrap my head around all this back'n'forth. And just as an end note on the subject I thought we were discussing---the only person I respect an opinion about the Health Care issue is Claudia given she has devoted herself to changing Health Care policies that affect real CHANGE we can see and feel--in Champaign County and beyond.</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I think we can all agree that Champaign County Health Care Consumers is a wonderful organization. Claudia and her cohorts work tirelessly on our behalf. I have supported them financially to the extent I am able, and they have helped me with several health care issues, including quite recently. I'm sure others here can say the same. In the total absence of a sane and compassionate health care policy in the United States, we would be hard pressed to survive without organizations such as CCHCC. My criticism of the new health care 'reform' legislation should in no case be construed as an attack on CCHCC.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Having said that, all of us can't and shouldn't devote all of our energies to health care issues. CCHCC is our proxy, and a wonderful one. Some of us, by virtue of talent or temperament or perhaps simply chance, have worked in other areas to better the community. I'd like to think that we were still entitled to an opinion on health care policies.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Well, enough said. Sometimes e-mail threads go off in unpredictable directions.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Respect,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>John</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote"> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:19 PM, Laurie Solomon <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ls1000@live.com" target="_blank">ls1000@live.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">I have no qualms with this analysis except one: I think your first paragraph is a cheap shot. I can only assume that that is how you describe and consider anyone who says anything good about Obama and maybe about any chief magistrate including Nixon who you appear to praise. In praising his actions - even if they were begrudging and against what he really wanted, are not you also" identifying with the aggressor"?<br>
<br>Having said that, I only want to note that, while you note correctly - I believe - that the Nixon Administration was more liberal than any other President or administration that came after him or it and that the whole political spectrum has been shifting to the right more and more every year to the point that it is now very far to the right, you appear to not give much significance to the fact that the political environment during the Nixon period and even prior to it allowed the Nixon Administration to be as liberal as they were; but now the political environment has changed and no President or administration since then could be that liberal or progressive and get away with it - much less survive- in the period that came after Nixon. Thus, holding this or any other administration that came after Nixon's up to the Nixon Administration might comprise a very unfair comparison historically and analytically.<br>
<br>--------------------------------------------------<br>From: "C. G. ESTABROOK" <<a href="mailto:cge@shout.net" target="_blank">cge@shout.net</a>><br>Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:52 PM<br>To: "Melodye Rosales" <<a href="mailto:melodye@nitrogendesign.com" target="_blank">melodye@nitrogendesign.com</a>><br>
Cc: "Ricky Baldwin" <<a href="mailto:baldwinricky@yahoo.com" target="_blank">baldwinricky@yahoo.com</a>>; "Marti Wilkinson" <<a href="mailto:martiwilki@gmail.com" target="_blank">martiwilki@gmail.com</a>>; "peace discuss" <<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>>; "socialist forum core" <<a href="mailto:sf-core@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">sf-core@yahoogroups.com</a>>; "C-U Citzens for Peace and Justice" <<a href="mailto:discuss@lists.communitycourtwatch.org" target="_blank">discuss@lists.communitycourtwatch.org</a>><br>
Subject: [sf-core] Re: [Peace-discuss] [Discuss] Fw: What hath got rot?<br><br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div></div>
<div>It's hard to make sense of this statement, but it seems to be praise for our<br>chief magistrate. As such, it seems to be an example of what some<br>psychoanalysts call "identification with the aggressor."<br>
<br>Sticking to political as opposed to psychological analysis, it's clear that the<br>health "reform" enacted by the current administration is substantially to the<br>right of that offered by the Nixon administration (and torpedoed by Democrats).<br>
Here's what the Nixon administration was talking about a generation ago:<br><<a href="http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/September/03/nixon-proposal.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/September/03/nixon-proposal.aspx</a>>.<br>
<br>In terms of effect (as opposed to the personal commitments of leading members)<br>the Nixon administration was clearly the most liberal administration since WWII,<br>from the EPA to the negative income tax. It was driven to be so, against its<br>
will, by the accumulated political demands of "the sixties." It took a major<br>counterattack by capital, under the name "neoliberalism," beginning in the<br>Carter administration, to roll it back.<br>
<br>Nixon in the early 1970s proposed to reform welfare by replacing it with a<br>guaranteed annual income; Clinton reformed it by abolishing AFDC. "Only Nixon<br>could go to China"; only Clinton could destroy welfare.<br>
<br>Today's Democratic Party, on economic policy and social welfare policy at least,<br>is well to the right of the Republican Party during the days of Nixon and Ford.<br>In fact the entire political spectrum in the US has shifted far to the right,<br>
such that the liberal/left would be ecstatic if even single-payer could ever be<br>established here.<br><br>That's the result of 30 years of reaction: we frogs think the water is quite<br>temperate, thank you. Try not to notice that real wages have not risen in<br>
America in that time.<br><br><br>Melodye Rosales wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">Impossible to please everyone---Bush bankrupt us for 8 years straight---so we<br>are trying to tackle an ambitious and financially expensive task----even if<br>
we are doing it one dime at a time!<br><br>To echo those poor souls who were victims of the Stockholder's Bean Counter<br>approach to the Health Care industry,<br><br>/"CHANGE is never perfect. It's always gonna have its critics, Monday night<br>
quarterbacks, and when one thing doesn't go as planned---you're gonna have<br>your share of "I told you so, you so'n'so" But Thank the Lawd we have<br>somebody willin' to take on Goliath! Somebody who is willing to try something<br>
different because they see the suffering getting worse--- not better.<br><br>Thank the Lawd almighty that we might get at least one good clasp on the<br>monopoly that has been insulating the Health Care industry, keeping us from<br>
pull it apart ----just enough---- to open the possibility for fair trade and<br>competition. Then--just maybe---we will encourage enough David's to step<br>forward, enabling them to gain access to the support needed to maintain and<br>
sustain alternative venues for citizens of the most powerful country in the<br>world to have the medical means to finally live long enough to enjoy the<br>fruits of their work in this Land of Plenty. GOD BLESS AMERICA and my<br>
President, Obama!!!" /<br><br>So, my trillion dollar question, "Who, before President Obama, was able or<br>willing to provide a plan to include the 'have nots'? And, though the Health<br>Care Bill is not a perfect piece of legislation, give me one that is, one<br>
that has gone this far to include a mass of people regardless of age, gender,<br>economics, religion, political party affiliation or ethnicity? Who?"<br><br>It never ceases to amaze me how some of the biggest critics (on every<br>
subject) coming out of the shadows have done---- what?<br><br>I, for one, am so tired of the endless critics who cast blame and carry no<br>sustainable solutions.<br><br>Even locally, though I know most of you and believe you accomplish a<br>
tremendous amount of good and goodwill--------I am still waiting for the<br>demonstrations and forums associated with, to stop being the end all answer<br>to every inequitable problem and voter education and voter drives to become<br>
the new wave mantra, motivator, and means to exercise the voices of change to<br>CHANGE the system into a more equitable playing field------right inside<br>Champaign County. Not just during the voting season---but year 'round. Let's<br>
start here. The place where we live. We need registered voters who actually<br>vote. We need to get them to the polls. That is where CHANGE truly begins<br>and ends.<br><br>-Melodye</blockquote></div></div></blockquote>
</blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote>
<br />--
<br />This message has been scanned for viruses and
<br />dangerous content by
<a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is
<br />believed to be clean.