<html><head><base href="x-msg://474/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">It strikes me that everything that you say may be true, --or not. We have our own biases here to contend with. We would need some kind of poll to help resolve the issue, a poll among those who participated. Or at least statements from activist leaders of the movement at that time. I was only a very sympathetic onlooker, but I would not discount the fact(?) that many students felt threatened by the prospect of fighting a murderous war in a remote foreign land. So, indeed, self interest was apparent. However, it had beneficial results for everyone concerned (except those supporting the war). <div><br></div><div>--mkb</div><div><br><div><div>On May 4, 2010, at 7:00 PM, David Green wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">In my opinion, the student antiwar movement of the 1960s (which was part of a much larger antiwar movement, including soldiers themselves), was NOT motivated by self-interest or even self-preservation. It was motivated by the spirit of resistance of the Civil Rights Movement and the Free Speech Movement, the Black Power Movement and the specter of the urban rebellions. It was motivated by a truth-seeking culture, however one may view the specifics in retrospect, engendered by radical journalists, and folk troubadors and rockers alike; and yes, by the "alternative consciousness" movement that--whatever one thinks about it--was not compatible with dropping napalm on Asian peasants because they were called Communists by the president. It was motivated by a literary culture that was relatively common (in relation to any such thing now), from Catch 22 to Soul on Ice, and widely seen films like "Battle of Algiers." And it was motivated by the blatant military-industrial research complex on campus, as well as all of the dreadful "social science" that went along with that (including pseudo-Freudian explanations for adolescent rebellion). In addition, it was motivated by an increased appreciation of the "3rd world" of consisting of something other than the spoils of capitalism or Stalinism. A short list, of course, that would have to inlcude the arrogance of leaders of the day. And finally, for whatever reason, it didn't burst forth as a mass movement until a couple of cohorts that had been somewhat (however poorly) prepared for this in high school had entered college.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "> </div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">DG<br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "><br><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">From:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>C. G. Estabrook <<a href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu">galliher@illinois.edu</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Jenifer Cartwright <<a href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com">jencart13@yahoo.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Cc:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>E.Wayne Johnson <<a href="mailto:ewj@pigs.ag">ewj@pigs.ag</a>>; Peace Discuss <<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Sent:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tue, May 4, 2010 5:51:18 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Subject:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Peace-discuss] ron paul, teabaggers, and some of their best friends<br></font><br>"The usual explanations for the difference between then and now<br>won't do. The suggestion, for example, that the renewal of a<br>military draft would ignite students' self-interest doesn't<br>account for the fact that most 60s-era students were sufficiently<br>sheltered from the draft to make their chances of seeing combat<br>negligible. Lewis B. Hershey, director of the Selective Service<br>until 1970, granted draft deferments to students and some<br>white-collar professionals on the reasoning that engineers,<br>scientists, and teachers were essential to national security and<br>the war effort. By the time the lottery system evened the playing<br>field somewhat in 1969, 'Vietnamization' was under way, and the<br>number of combat roles filled by American GI's began shrinking."<br><br><a href="http://chronicle.com/article/The-Times-They-Changed/65192/" target="_blank">http://chronicle.com/article/The-Times-They-Changed/65192/</a><br><br><br>On 5/4/10 4:54 PM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:<br>> The only way to get ANY folks out of the woodwork to protest the US's<br>> imperialist wars is to reinstate the draft. How 'bout we [peace activists]<br>> start a rumor that that's in the works and see what happens? Add that to<br>> blogs and picket signs, get talk radio hosts ranting about it. Worth a try<br>> :-) -- Jenifer<br>><br>> --- On *Mon, 5/3/10, Ricky Baldwin /<<a href="mailto:baldwinricky@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:baldwinricky@yahoo.com">baldwinricky@yahoo.com</a>>/* wrote:<br>><br>><br>> From: Ricky Baldwin <<a href="mailto:baldwinricky@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:baldwinricky@yahoo.com">baldwinricky@yahoo.com</a>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss]<br>> ron paul, teabaggers, and some of their best friends To: "E.Wayne Johnson"<br>> <<a href="mailto:ewj@pigs.ag" ymailto="mailto:ewj@pigs.ag">ewj@pigs.ag</a>> Cc: "Peace Discuss" <<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>> Date:<br>> Monday, May 3, 2010, 11:06 AM<br>><br>> Wayne, I assume you are referring here to the "tea party" as the rebellion?<br>> I think there's an element of that, but it's dragged so far out of that<br>> orbit by the weight of its racism and Know-Nothingism, homophobia and fear<br>> of socialism, and miscellaneous rightwing conspiracy theories, that it's<br>> more likely to push national policy away from anything that might help<br>> working people than accomplish anything good and decent...<br><br>--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>This message has been scanned for viruses and<br>dangerous content by MailScanner, and is<br>believed to be clean.<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Peace-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br></div></div></div><br><br>--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>This message has been scanned for viruses and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>dangerous content by<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>believed to be clean.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>_______________________________________________<br>Peace-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div><br />--
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