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<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>Actually, you are confusing "actualities" and "should
be." What I have said is that in actuality (independent of what should be)
nothing is really going to happen of any real significance given the political
realities of this world. Israel knew and knows this and is counting on it.
Thus, it does not give a damn about what anyone is saying or any declarations
that anyone is passing since - as even children know - "sticks and stones will
break your bones, but names will never really hurt you." What I
suggested should be done (the activism I am suggesting) is for the member
nations in the international community to stop acting rationally when dealing
with Israel and got to war with them, telling the US that if they oppose such
actions they will also be considered an enemy of humanity and the civilized
world. You and many others are like the members of the international
community only thinking within the box of civil, rational, responsible, and
polite responses which only will prove to be ineffective when dealing with those
who refuse to play that game according to the formal established rules but
insist on using the rules of the game to justify violating them and playing the
players. However, if one stops responding in accordance with the rules of
the game so as to make the game unpredictable and unsafe wars of all against all
then Israel will stop and take notice because their environment has become
unpredictable and unknowable and they cannot count on anything. Thus, I an
suggesting that one start thinking out of the box by taking the offensive and
putting Israel on the defensive. Let Israel and the US call the rest of
the world crazy, irrational, irresponsible, immoral, etc. rather than allowing
them to stick their noses up at the rest of the world by taking actions that the
rest of the world condemns as being irrational, inhumane, crazy, irresponsible,
immoral, etc.</FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=naiman.uiuc@gmail.com
href="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com">Robert Naiman</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 01, 2010 5:37 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=ls1000@live.com href="mailto:ls1000@live.com">Laurie
Solomon</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss List</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] Rachel Corrie Continues Towards Gaza:
WillObamaLet Israel Attack?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>You make my point more effectively than I did. According to your
claims, only actions that will obviously not happen will make any difference.
The logical conclusion of your argument is that it's useless to try to do
anything. Therefore, your argument is an argument on behalf of inactivism. I
rest my case.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 6:20 PM, Laurie Solomon <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:ls1000@live.com">ls1000@live.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>Well Bob, I personally just do not think that
Israel really gives a damn what the international community says or passes
unless it is backed up with significant actions and has the support of the
US. If UN could and would place a quarantine on Israel and establish a
blockade of its air service and ports, that might have some effect on Israeli
actions; but the Us would not let such UN action happen. If the nations
in the international community would break their diplomatic relations with
Israel, that might get their ear; but we know that none of them have the balls
to do that since it would alienate the US.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>Israel released the detainees for a number of reasons;
but I doubt that international pressure and condemnation are among the
reasons. Bad press - except possibly in the US - has never really
influenced Israel. We can cite all kinds of instances where the
international community and world press have criticized and condemned Israel
for its actions and policies to no avail. The siege of Gaza as well as
the invasion is but one example; the continued development of settlements on
Arab land and the eviction of Arabs from their houses so that
Jewish Israelis can have and use those properties is another.
Israel took the detainees because they knew they could and would not suffer
any retaliation from other countries - except the hurling of words and
declarations; they released them because they had proven their point that they
could detain them without any punitive response by the outside world and they
were no longer needed as hostages against any possible retaliation for the
actions that Israel had taken in international waters by other
countries. Their detention was a symbolic act at best and not one that
was intended to implement any national security measures or anti-terrorism
investigations.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Calibri></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV><B>From:</B> <A
title="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com" target=_blank>Robert Naiman</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 01, 2010 3:45 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=jencart13@yahoo.com href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com"
target=_blank>Jenifer Cartwright</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target=_blank>Peace-discuss
List</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] Rachel Corrie Continues Towards Gaza:
WillObama Let Israel Attack?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I empathize with your frustration, Jenifer, but it just isn't
so, and from an activist point of view, it's important for people to
understand that it isn't so.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Actions of the Israeli government are not impervious to external
criticism.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Exercise: compare UN Security Council resolutions supported by the United
States which are critical of Israeli government actions and subsequent actions
by the Israeli government. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Example: This morning, the UN Security Council passed a resolution which,
among other things, called on Israel to release the detainees.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Now - later the same day - it is being reported that the Israeli
government has decided to release the prisoners. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Is that significant? Well, first of all, of course, the prisoners have
the right to go free. But secondly, the moment they are free they get to tell
their story - surely a motivation for their previous continued detention.
Already, lots of stories are coming out with headlines saying, "released
activists dispute Israeli government account," etc. <BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Jenifer Cartwright
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com"
target=_blank>jencart13@yahoo.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<TD vAlign=top>I'd like to think the US has that kind of power over
Israel, and that Obama would turn this around if he could. I
once believed it did (or must have had, considering the amt of US
$upport), but I'm beginning to think that Israel, under Netanyahu most
especially, is marching unstoppably to its own mad drummer, willfully
oblivious to anything or anyone... as crazy and as hell-bent on its
agenda as decades ago Germany, current N Korea, and (it could be
argued in some instances) the US since its inception...
<DIV> --Jenifer </DIV>
<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 6/1/10, Robert Naiman <I><<A
href="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com"
target=_blank>naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</A>></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From:
Robert Naiman <<A href="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com"
target=_blank>naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</A>><BR>Subject:
[Peace-discuss] Rachel Corrie Continues Towards Gaza: Will Obama Let
Israel Attack?<BR>To: "Peace-discuss List" <<A
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"
target=_blank>peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>><BR>Date:
Tuesday, June 1, 2010, 12:04 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>The Irish Times reports that the Rachel Corrie is "ploughing
ahead<BR>with its attempt to deliver aid to Gaza despite yesterday's
attack by<BR>the Israeli navy on Gaza-bound ship the Mavi Marmara."
Would the Obama<BR>Administration permit an Israeli attack on the
Rachel Corrie, as the<BR>Obama Administration permitted the Israeli
attack on the Mavi Marmara?<BR><BR><BR>Rachel Corrie Continues
Towards Gaza: Will Obama Let Israel Attack?<BR><A
href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/rachel-corrie-continues-t_b_596014.html"
target=_blank>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/rachel-corrie-continues-t_b_596014.html</A><BR><A
href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/6/1/111035/2833"
target=_blank>http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/6/1/111035/2833</A><BR><A
href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/596"
target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/596</A><BR><BR>--<BR>Robert
Naiman<BR>Policy Director<BR>Just Foreign Policy<BR><A
href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org"
target=_blank>www.justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR><A
href="http://mc/compose?to=naiman@justforeignpolicy.org"
target=_blank>naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR><BR>Urge Congress
to Support a Timetable for Military Withdrawal from
Afghanistan<BR><A
href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern"
target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern</A><BR><BR></DIV></DIV>--
<BR>This message has been scanned for viruses and<BR>dangerous
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clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Robert Naiman<BR>Policy Director<BR>Just Foreign
Policy<BR><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org"
target=_blank>www.justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR><A
href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org"
target=_blank>naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR><BR>Urge Congress to Support
a Timetable for Military Withdrawal from Afghanistan<BR><A
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<P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Robert
Naiman<BR>Policy Director<BR>Just Foreign Policy<BR><A
href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org">www.justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR><A
href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR><BR>Urge
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