<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Thoughts from the UFPJ discussion list-serve. --mkb<div><br><div><br><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>From: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Steve Burns <<a href="mailto:steveburnswnpj@gmail.com">steveburnswnpj@gmail.com</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Date: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">July 22, 2010 8:33:12 AM CDT<br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>To: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Jean Athey <<a href="mailto:jeanathey@verizon.net">jeanathey@verizon.net</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Cc: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">ufpj-activist <<a href="mailto:ufpj-activist@lists.mayfirst.org">ufpj-activist@lists.mayfirst.org</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re: [ufpj-activist] Pentagon Spending on ChoppingBlock</b><br></span></div><br>Hi all:<br>I think what Jean proposes is the basis for a good way forward. The days when the peace movement could turn out half a million people on the streets of D.C., motivated solely by the issue of the war, are over. Trying to turn 2010 back into 2006 isn't going to work. <br>
<br>I agree that Obama has been a factor in demobilizing the peace movement, but he's not the only factor. One of the luxuries of being an empire is that you get to fight your wars in other peoples' countries, and it's the distance of the war from most Americans' everyday lives that accounts for much of the lack of public engagement on this issue. After years of dissent from us, the government has settled in on a level of war activity (and settled on policies such as the "volunteer" military) that don't provoke much dissent. As I argued above, the unpopularity of the war and the <i>potential</i> of greater dissent acts as a restraining influence on the government and military, and that's a good thing which saves many lives, but we also need to be realistic about the political environment we're working in.<br>
<br>In short, the U.S. government and the American people seem to have settled into a tacit agreement that says, "You don't escalate the war too much, and we won't protest it too much." Short of a dramatic escalation of the war (such as an invasion of Iran or Pakistan) or the reinstatement of the draft, I don't see this arrangement changing much. <br>
<br>If there's a way forward for the peace movement, it's in recognizing that we are no longer the center of attention and deciding to ally ourselves with others working for social justice - and especially <i>economic</i> justice. Many in the peace movement are already doing this, and we should all follow their lead, as Jean suggests.<br>
<br>I see the potential in this economic crisis for a new mass movement of which the peace movement will be just one part. Can we accept a lesser role in what is potentially a much bigger movement? <br><br>Steve Burns<br>
<a href="http://wnpj.org/">Wisconsin Network for Peace and Justice</a><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 8:05 AM, Jean Athey <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jeanathey@verizon.net">jeanathey@verizon.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="padding-right: 10px; padding-left: 10px; padding-top: 15px;" bgcolor="#ffffff" name="Compose message area">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I've greatly appreciated this discussion. Thanks to
everyone who has commented.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Our Peace Action chapter in Montgomery
County, MD has decided to follow the lead of the MA campaign to fund local
communities and cut war spending. We are reaching out to groups that might not
agree totally with us on every point--or even most points--but who might help us
build a constituency in MD for bringing war money home. We are starting to
connect with unions, civil rights groups, community organizations, etc., focused
on the needs that people are dealing with every day, i.e. jobs and
services. We're not going to address the wars and military spending in
moral terms, but in economic ones. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">We hope that this is the way forward for the real
change that Chris alludes to below.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Jean Athey</font></div>
<blockquote style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-right: 0px;"><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<div style="font: 10pt arial;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(228, 228, 228); font: 10pt arial;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="chris4senate@gmail.com" href="mailto:chris4senate@gmail.com" target="_blank">Chris
Lugo</a> </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a title="people4peacejustice@gmail.com" href="mailto:people4peacejustice@gmail.com" target="_blank">people4peacejustice@gmail.com</a>
; <a title="mcstahl3@cox.net" href="mailto:mcstahl3@cox.net" target="_blank">Mark Stahl</a> ; <a title="ufpj-activist@lists.mayfirst.org" href="mailto:ufpj-activist@lists.mayfirst.org" target="_blank">ufpj-activist</a> </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 22, 2010 2:22
AM</div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ufpj-activist] Pentagon
Spending on ChoppingBlock</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Friends,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I commend all of the work the peace community is
doing. All around the country people are still gathering and working for
peace and to end war. I think Tom Hayden's conference this weekend is a
step in the right direction and in general the work of UFPJ is also positive
work.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Having said that, I agree with the comments below
from Marilyn Bagondas and would add to it that unless there is a critical
examination of the fallout from the 2008 election the peace movement will
remain stalled until at least 2012 or perhaps 2016. The unfortunate
truth is, as Marilyn said, that the peace movement went belly up after the
2008 elections and it has not had any substantive energy since.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">We are all doing our work, and it is important to
continue steps that encourage coalition building, but it is also important to
look at where we are at. Without the general public motivated with us,
we are essentially marginalized as a movement. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">My sense is that we should be pushing the
administration to do the right thing, understanding that this is a
confrtonational position and is also an unpopular position among democrats,
but that is what is needed right now. We have an administration that
would be more friendly to our work, with popular pressure, but only by
pressure.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Unfortunately the peace movement is still basking
in the glow of the current president and not willing to engage in realpolitiks
to make actual gains for the movement. Until we are willing to do this
we will not take steps towards real power and substantive change, and we
should take these steps while we have the opportunity.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Chris Lugo <br>1108 7th St<br>Oregon City,
OR<br>97045<br>503-756-5801<br><a href="mailto:christopherlugo@aol.com" target="_blank">christopherlugo@aol.com</a><br> </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<blockquote style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font: 10pt arial;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(228, 228, 228); font: 10pt arial;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="people4peacejustice@gmail.com" href="mailto:people4peacejustice@gmail.com" target="_blank">people4peacejustice@gmail.com</a>
</div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a title="mcstahl3@cox.net" href="mailto:mcstahl3@cox.net" target="_blank">Mark Stahl</a> ; <a title="ufpj-activist@lists.mayfirst.org" href="mailto:ufpj-activist@lists.mayfirst.org" target="_blank">ufpj-activist</a> </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 19, 2010 4:58
AM</div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ufpj-activist] Fw:
[Ufpj-sc] Pentagon Spending on ChoppingBlock</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman">I agree with you. Ask Cindy
Sheehan. She recently had to fold up her tent due to lack of interest
in the peace community.</font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman">There are a few hard working committed
peace activists and I thank them for keep on going....but, look behind
you. Where is everyone?</font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman">I really believe that Bush motivated
people to get out on the streets. When Obama was elected, the movement
went belly up.</font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman">I have been a peace activist all my life
but now realize that the system is rigged beyond responding to activists no
matter who they are. There is absolutely no accountability. What
happened to those who were responsible for torture? The fake Iraq
war? etc. etc. etc!</font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman">I'm sorry if this sounds hopeless and
negative but, if the wars do end, I think it is only because of political
reasons...especially, now that the conservatives are discovering that they
can still be patriotic while opposing Obama and war.</font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman">peace</font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman">Marilyn
Bagdonas</font></div></blockquote></font></div>
</div></div><div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Steve Burns<br>Program Director<br><a href="http://wnpj.org/" target="_blank">Wisconsin Network for Peace and Justice</a><br>122 State St. #405<br>Madison, WI 53703<br>
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