<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><DIV>John, it really does matter how this is being spun by liberal elite opinion-shapers at the NYT, primarily Rich and Freidman. Because like in Vietnam, they have to shape a certain narrative as to enable them to go kill again. "Good intentions gone wrong," "quagmire," "nation-building can't be done unless people help themselves," at best--at worst, "stab-in-the-back" by liberal media, appeasement, etc. Ultimately, no apologies, no guilt, no reparations, "Vietnam was painful for both sides." Again, who controls the narrative controls the present, who controls the present controls the past, who controls the past controls the future. </DIV>
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<DIV>Yes, this is very important for "y'all" to think about, if you wouldn't mind. Rich's columns are the tactics to Obama's strategy.</DIV>
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<DIV>DG</DIV>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> John W. <jbw292002@gmail.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> David Green <davegreen84@yahoo.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Morton K. Brussel <brussel@illinois.edu>; Peace Discuss <peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Mon, August 2, 2010 12:09:00 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Peace-discuss] The message of wiki-leaks…<BR></FONT><BR>
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<DIV>You know I'm not very smart, and sometimes have trouble following these arcane threads. Someone please remind me why Frank Rich's precise turns of phrase are the most important thing that y'all have to talk and think about. Are you in danger of becoming complacent if ol' Frank finally admits that the war in Afghanistan is "morally wrong" and not merely some manner of mistake?</DIV>
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<DIV>John<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:49 AM, David Green <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">davegreen84@yahoo.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV>Mort, it's not at all clear that <EM>Rich </EM>thinks we should get out. Although he is an editorial columnist, he says nothing throughout of his own views. The closest he comes is this: <EM>As the president conducts his scheduled reappraisal of his war policy this December, a re-examination of 1971 might lead him to question his own certitude of what he is fond of calling “the long view.” <BR></EM>That's obtuse, and for a reason. And indeed the lessons of "1971" aren't at all clear, if one is serious about making even this argument re what "might lead" Obama. Neither the army nor the population is rebelling against the war, and the economic downturn that has accompanied it does not seem to be bothering the interests of capital, broadly speaking. In fact, it has benefitted them greatly--the economic world is very different than it was in 1971, and the resource stakes are much higher in the ME than in Southeast Asia.</DIV>
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<DIV>There is no certainty at all, as Rich suggests, that we are on the downside of this war. So his column is counsel for complacency.</DIV>
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<DIV>With you, it has seemed to work.</DIV>
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<DIV>DG</DIV>
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<DIV class=im><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Morton K. Brussel <<A href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu">brussel@illinois.edu</A>><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=im><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> David Green <<A href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">davegreen84@yahoo.com</A>><BR></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> C. G. Estabrook <<A href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu">galliher@illinois.edu</A>>; Peace Discuss <<A href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Mon, August 2, 2010 10:44:24 AM
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<DIV class=h5><BR>Again, you beg the question with the statement below. It's clear that Rich thinks we should get out of Afghanistan. That's specific, and positive, despite all else. I also want the U.S. forces "out". That's the most important thing at the moment, in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and elsewhere.
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<DIV>As for Carl, he can twist anything for his purposes, as with use of the word "quagmire" as an excuse for hiding criminality. </DIV>
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<DIV>It is one thing to say that you are not satisfied, or strongly dissatisfied with the positions and writings of someone like Rich, but I believe your twisting of what can be helpful in stopping the killing is perverse. Get off your ideological horse.<BR>
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<DIV>--mkb</DIV>
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<DIV>On Aug 2, 2010, at 8:57 AM, David Green wrote:</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 16px">On a broader level, everyone wants peace, albeit on their own terms.</SPAN></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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