<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><DIV><EM>"Obama's ploys haven't turned out well (so far?) for him politically or for his and his accomplices' strategic/geopolitical aims."</EM></DIV>
<P><EM></EM> </P>
<P>Regarding the latter, I'm not so sure. We have to remember that his accomplices are concerned about broader aspects of strategic planning for control of resources, not short-term issues like casualties, leaks, etc. If that turns out to be bad politically for the employee in the White House, too bad for him (or maybe some day her).</P>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma>
<HR SIZE=1>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Morton K. Brussel <brussel@illinois.edu><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> David Green <davegreen84@yahoo.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13@yahoo.com>; Peace Discuss <peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wed, August 4, 2010 11:34:35 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Peace-discuss] Bacevich: Vietnam vs. Munich, and Creating an "Iraq/Afghanistan Syndrome"<BR></FONT><BR>
<META content=off http-equiv=x-dns-prefetch-control><BASE>I would go along with David's first two sentences. As to the third, yes, I think there was a strategic miscalculation [the two words should be linked] in the sense that Obama's ploys haven't turned out well (so far?) for him politically or for his and his accomplices' strategic/geopolitical aims. China, India, maybe even Russia, gain in the geopolitical competition.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I don't know whether he is willing to sacrifice his political standing or strategy; I doubt it, but now he is between a rock and a hard place. His options look bleak. Pulling out would indicate the horrendous "waste" (to almost everyone who has not made a fast buck from it). Persisting will continue the bleeding. His gamble looks now like a miserable failure (to almost everyone, even to his liberal supporters). Sometimes people put themselves in bad situations in which there are no decent solutions… </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>--mkb</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Aug 4, 2010, at 10:42 AM, David Green wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=Apple-style-span>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><EM>Would you agree w/ Bacevich that Obama's decision was a political calculation that has led to a strategic miscalculation?</EM></DIV>
<P><EM></EM> </P>
<P>Obama made a political calculation that in order to get elected, he would "oppose" the Iraq war and, in order to burnish his credentials with elites, support and expansion of the Afghan war. He kept the latter promise (unlike other less strategically important promises he did not keep) because of broader strategic interests in the region. It was not a "miscalculation." In order to support these long-term strategic interests, he is indeed willing to sacrifice his political strategy. And he likely will, both in November and as a one-termer. This is the price you must be willing to pay for what ultimately amounts to personal aggrandisement on the terms of those who run our country.</P>
<DIV> <BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<P>DG</P>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><EM><BR></EM></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma>
<HR SIZE=1>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Jenifer Cartwright <<A href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com">jencart13@yahoo.com</A>><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Brussel Morton K. <<A href="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net">mkbrussel@comcast.net</A>>; David Green <<A href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">davegreen84@yahoo.com</A>><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Peace Discuss <<A href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Wed, August 4, 2010 9:54:04 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [Peace-discuss] Bacevich: Vietnam vs. Munich, and Creating an "Iraq/Afghanistan Syndrome"<BR></FONT><BR>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>Would you agree w/ Bacevich that Obama's decision was a political calculation that has led to a strategic miscalculation? Bacevich's main point is that military solutions should be off the table because (laying aside moral, etc considerations) wars are no longer winnable. (And it's also become a political miscalculation, of course.)
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"> --Jenifer<BR><BR>--- On<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>Tue, 8/3/10, David Green<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I><<A href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">davegreen84@yahoo.com</A>></I></B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: David Green <<A href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">davegreen84@yahoo.com</A>><BR>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Bacevich: Vietnam vs. Munich, and Creating an "Iraq/Afghanistan Syndrome"<BR>To: "Brussel Morton K." <<A href="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net">mkbrussel@comcast.net</A>><BR>Cc: "Peace Discuss" <<A href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>><BR>Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 9:36 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px" id=yiv2103479044>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">My central complaint about Bacevich's analysis is this:</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"> </DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">"I can’t pretend to look into his (Obama's) heart and understand what factors caused him to make the decision he did. I suspect that a political calculation may have weighed more heavily than a strategic calculation or a moral calculation. And I find that deeply upsetting, because I, and I think many of us, felt that here, finally, was a public figure who—whose decisions would not be influenced primarily by political calculations."</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"> </DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">I think Obama's was indeed a strategic calculation. Obama's political calculations have amounted to using and abusing his "base" while being willing to countenance political defeat at midterm and beyond. That should tell us something about antiwar strategic and political calculations, past and present.<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px"><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma>
<HR SIZE=1>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Brussel Morton K. <<A href="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net">mkbrussel@comcast.net</A>><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Robert Naiman <<A href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A>><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>David Green <<A href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">davegreen84@yahoo.com</A>>; Peace Discuss <<A href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Tue, August 3, 2010 9:21:09 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [Peace-discuss] Bacevich: Vietnam vs. Munich, and Creating an "Iraq/Afghanistan Syndrome"<BR></FONT><BR>if (typeof YAHOO == "undefined") { var YAHOO = {}; } YAHOO.Shortcuts = YAHOO.Shortcuts || {}; YAHOO.Shortcuts.hasSensitiveText = true; YAHOO.Shortcuts.sensitivityType = ["sensitive_news_terms"]; YAHOO.Shortcuts.doUlt = false; YAHOO.Shortcuts.location = "us"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_id = 0; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_type = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_title = "Re: [Peace-discuss] Bacevich: Vietnam vs. Munich, and Creating an Iraq/Afghanistan Syndrome"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_publish_date = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_author
= "<A href="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net">mkbrussel@comcast.net</A>"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_url = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_tags = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_language = "english"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.version = "2.8.1"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.annotationSet = { "lw_1280888774_0": { "text": "On Aug 3, 2010, at 9:13 PM", "extended": 0, "startchar": 16, "endchar": 41, "start": 16, "end": 41, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 1, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/date_time"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "Yes On Aug 3 2010 at 9:13 PM Robert Naiman wrote There are two separate issues here One", "metaData": { "isoEndDate": "", "isoStartDate": "20100803T211300", "past": "false", "recurring":
"false", "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1280888774_1": { "text": "Israel Lobby", "extended": 0, "startchar": 396, "endchar": 407, "start": 396, "end": 407, "extendedFrom": "Israel", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 0.782542, "relScore": 2.67903, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 0.782542, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/concept"], "category": ["CONCEPT"], "wikiId": "Israel_lobby_in_the_United_States", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "For example how much importance should one attach to the Israel Lobby the oil industry the weapons manufacturers etc in the Iraq", "metaData": { "visible": "false" } }, "lw_1280888774_2": { "text": "Iraq war", "extended": 0, "startchar": 475, "endchar": 482, "start": 475, "end": 482, "extendedFrom": "Iraq", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 0.612818, "relScore": 3.27118, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 0.612818, "prismaScore": 0,
"type": ["shortcuts:/concept"], "category": ["CONCEPT"], "wikiId": "Iraq_War", "relatedWikiIds": ["Vietnam_War", "Saddam_Hussein", "Operation_Enduring_Freedom", "Bill_Richardson", "California%27s_26th_congressional_district", "Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War", "UH-60_Black_Hawk", "American_Civil_War", "United_States_Republican_presidential_candidates,_2008", "Deal_or_No_Deal"], "relatedEntities": ["war in iraq", "democrat bill clinton", "governor of new mexico", "iraqi civilian deaths", "house majority leader steny hoyer", "house speaker nancy pelosi", "spokeswoman dana perino", "senate minority leader mitch mcconnell", "republican presidential candidate", "ark royal"], "showOnClick": [], "context": "Lobby the oil industry the weapons manufacturers etc in the Iraq war As Chomsky pointed out noting the obvious it s hard to", "metaData": { "visible": "false" } }, "lw_1280888774_3": { "text": "On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 8:59 PM", "extended": 0, "startchar": 812,
"endchar": 841, "start": 812, "end": 841, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 1, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/date_time"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "the Empire That is beyond reasonable dispute He is resolutely On Tue Aug 3 2010 at 8:59 PM Brussel Morton K<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net">mkbrussel@comcast.net</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>wrote You are nitpicking Most of", "metaData": { "isoEndDate": "", "isoStartDate": "20100803T205900", "past": "false", "recurring": "false", "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1280888774_4": { "text": "<A href="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net">mkbrussel@comcast.net</A>", "extended": 0, "startchar": 932, "endchar": 952, "start": 932, "end": 952, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 1, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/http"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "Tue Aug 3 2010 at 8:59 PM Brussel Morton K<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net">mkbrussel@comcast.net</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>wrote You are nitpicking Most of what Bacevich says is", "metaData": { "linkHref": "mailto%3A%25e%25", "linkProtocol": "http", "linkYmailto": "<A href="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net">mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net</A>", "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1280888774_5": { "text": "military-industrial complex", "extended": 0, "startchar": 1127, "endchar": 1153, "start": 1127, "end": 1153, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 0.67671, "relScore": 4.09077, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 0.67671, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/concept"], "category": ["CONCEPT"], "wikiId": "Military-industrial_complex", "relatedWikiIds": ["Military_budget", "NATO", "Fred_Thompson", "Afghanistan", "Charleston,_South_Carolina", "Rudy_Giuliani", "South_Carolina", "World_War_II", "Congressional_Budget_Office", "Joe_Lieberman"], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": ["lw_1280888774_9"], "context": "And the pressure comes from what President Eisenhower called the military-industrial complex The pressure comes from the national security apparatus but you", "metaData": { "visible":
"false" } }, "lw_1280888774_6": { "text": "national security apparatus", "extended": 0, "startchar": 1202, "endchar": 1228, "start": 1202, "end": 1228, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 0.567201, "relScore": 2.56285, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 0.567201, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/concept"], "category": ["CONCEPT"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "Eisenhower called the military-industrial complex The pressure comes from the national security apparatus but you don t like his word norms You put the", "metaData": { "visible": "false" } }, "lw_1280888774_7": { "text": "American imperialism", "extended": 0, "startchar": 1542, "endchar": 1561, "start": 1542, "end": 1561, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 0.702376, "relScore": 3.96045, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 0.702376, "prismaScore": 0,
"type": ["shortcuts:/concept"], "category": ["CONCEPT"], "wikiId": "American_Empire", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "reversed and I would say has come out strongly against American imperialism in general economic and military He s explicitly said so and", "metaData": { "visible": "false" } }, "lw_1280888774_8": { "text": "On Aug 3, 2010, at 7:44 PM", "extended": 0, "startchar": 3049, "endchar": 3074, "start": 3053, "end": 3078, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 1, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/date_time"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "progressive politics impotent Its cock-sure stridency and intolerance alienates mkb On Aug 3 2010 at 7:44 PM David Green wrote Every or almost every aspect of
Bacevich s", "metaData": { "isoEndDate": "", "isoStartDate": "20100803T194400", "past": "false", "recurring": "false", "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1280888774_9": { "text": "Afghanistan", "extended": 0, "startchar": 4479, "endchar": 4489, "start": 4485, "end": 4495, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "PLACE", "predictionProbability": "0.815887", "weight": 0.563348, "relScore": 2.7198, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 0.563348, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/place/af/country", "shortcuts:/us/tag/other/wiki"], "category": ["PLACE", "WIKI"], "wikiId": "Afghanistan", "relatedWikiIds": ["Iraq", "Pakistan", "Taliban", "Iran", "Kandahar", "Russia", "NATO", "Helmand_Province", "Al-Qaeda", "Osama_bin_Laden"], "relatedEntities": ["iraq", "pakistan", "taliban", "iran", "nato", "helmand", "al-qaida", "osama bin laden", "taliban militants", "britain"], "showOnClick": [], "context": "some fairly stubborn resistance to make that course change on
Afghanistan and he chose not to do it Yes there is", "metaData": { "geoArea": "641486", "geoCountry": "Afghanistan", "geoIsoCountryCode": "AF", "geoLocation": "(67.67894, 33.93045)", "geoName": "Afghanistan", "geoPlaceType": "Country", "type": "shortcuts:/us/instance/place/af/country", "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1280888774_10": { "text": "<A href="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com">naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</A>", "extended": 0, "startchar": 5803, "endchar": 5823, "start": 5809, "end": 5829, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 1, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/http"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "can t work Ever DG From Brussel Morton K<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net">mkbrussel@comcast.net</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>To<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com">naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Cc Peace-discuss List<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Sent Tue August 3 2010 6:46:30", "metaData": { "linkHref": "mailto%3A%25e%25", "linkProtocol": "http", "linkYmailto": "<A href="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com">mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</A>", "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1280888774_11": { "text": "<A href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>", "extended": 0, "startchar": 5945, "endchar": 5976, "start": 5951, "end": 5982, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 1, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/http"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "From Brussel Morton K<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:mkbrussel@comcast.net">mkbrussel@comcast.net</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>To<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com">naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Cc Peace-discuss List<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>Sent Tue August 3 2010 6:46:30 PM Subject Re Peace-discuss", "metaData": { "linkHref": "mailto%3A%25e%25", "linkProtocol": "http", "linkYmailto": "<A href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>", "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1280888774_12": { "text": "Vietnam", "extended": 0, "startchar": 6086, "endchar": 6092, "start": 6092, "end": 6098, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "PLACE",
"predictionProbability": "0.624465", "weight": 0.628059, "relScore": 2.94294, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 0.628059, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/place/destination", "shortcuts:/us/instance/place/vn/country"], "category": ["PLACE"], "wikiId": "Vietnam", "relatedWikiIds": ["China", "Hanoi", "Ho_Chi_Minh_City", "Iraq", "Indonesia", "Thailand", "Cambodia", "India", "Singapore", "Hong_Kong"], "relatedEntities": ["china", "hanoi", "beijing", "ho chi minh city", "iraq", "indonesia", "thailand", "cambodia", "india", "singapore"], "showOnClick": [], "context": "Tue August 3 2010 6:46:30 PM Subject Re Peace-discuss Bacevich Vietnam vs Munich and Creating an Iraq/Afghanistan Syndrome Thanks for sending", "metaData": { "geoArea": "328820", "geoCountry": "Vietnam", "geoIsoCountryCode": "VN", "geoLocation": "(107.86804, 15.97421)", "geoName": "Vietnam", "geoPlaceType": "Country", "type": "shortcuts:/us/instance/place/vn/country", "visible": "true"
} }, "lw_1280888774_13": { "text": "American Empire", "extended": 0, "startchar": 6427, "endchar": 6441, "start": 6433, "end": 6447, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "MOVIE", "predictionProbability": "0.620785", "weight": 0.838205, "relScore": 5.9248, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 0.838205, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/other/movie/movie_name", "shortcuts:/us/tag/other/wiki"], "category": ["MOVIE", "WIKI"], "wikiId": "American_Empire", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "imperialist goof For his generally benighted view see his book American Empire 2002 where he wrote about the imperative of America s mission", "metaData": { "movieID": "1800340798", "moviePosterHeight": "138", "moviePosterURL": "<A href="http://shopping.yahoo.com/video/images/muze/dvd/sm/52/244952.jpg" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://shopping.yahoo.com/video/images/muze/dvd/sm/52/244952.jpg</A>", "moviePosterWidth":
"101", "movieRating": "Unrated", "movieYear": "1942", "notrailer": "true", "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1280888774_14": { "text": "Howard Zinn", "extended": 0, "startchar": 6921, "endchar": 6931, "start": 6927, "end": 6937, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "PERSON", "predictionProbability": "0.601282", "weight": 0.652062, "relScore": 3.28388, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 0.652062, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/person/author", "shortcuts:/us/tag/other/wiki"], "category": ["PERSON", "WIKI"], "wikiId": "Howard_Zinn", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": ["eddie vedder", "marisa tomei", "kerry washington", "david strathairn", "danny glover", "matt damon", "josh brolin", "viggo mortensen", "john legend", "pearl jam"], "showOnClick": [], "context": "up as professor of international relations at Boston University where Howard Zinn was hounded out His objection to American policy in the", "metaData": [ { "visible": "true"}, {
"visible": "true"} ] }, "lw_1280888774_15": { "text": "Democracy Now", "extended": 0, "startchar": 7027, "endchar": 7039, "start": 7033, "end": 7045, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 0.546029, "relScore": 1.66971, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 0.546029, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/tag/other/wiki"], "category": ["WIKI"], "wikiId": "Democracy_Now%21", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "out His objection to American policy in the Mideast on Democracy Now today is that it isn t working We re not killing enough", "metaData": { "visible": "false" } }, "lw_1280888774_16": { "text": "20th century", "extended": 0, "startchar": 8250, "endchar": 8261, "start": 8258, "end": 8269, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 0.5338, "relScore": 2.48694, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 0.5338, "prismaScore": 0, "type":
["shortcuts:/us/tag/other/wiki"], "category": ["WIKI"], "wikiId": "20th_century", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "of various stripes etc in the early part of the 20th century They would have been happy to see these deviants burned", "metaData": { "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1280888774_17": { "text": "Senator Obama", "extended": 0, "startchar": 8533, "endchar": 8545, "start": 8541, "end": 8553, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "PERSON", "predictionProbability": "0.995491", "weight": 0.604337, "relScore": 3.14343, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 0.604337, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/person/government/us_senator", "shortcuts:/us/tag/news/congress2007"], "category": ["PERSON"], "wikiId": "Barack_Obama", "relatedWikiIds": ["Hillary_Rodham_Clinton", "John_McCain", "John_Edwards", "Mitt_Romney", "Mike_Huckabee", "Bill_Clinton", "Bill_Richardson", "George_W._Bush",
"Democratic_National_Committee", "Al_Gore"], "relatedEntities": ["barack obama", "senator clinton", "john mccain", "hillary clinton", "senator mccain", "hillary rodham clinton", "bill clinton", "evan bayh", "sen. barack obama", "sen. john mccain"], "showOnClick": [], "context": "2010 at 5:16 PM Robert Naiman wrote Campaigning for President Senator Obama said I don t want to just end the war but", "metaData": { "bio_link": "<A href="http://yahoo.capwiz.com/y/bio/?id=3181" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://yahoo.capwiz.com/y/bio/?id=3181</A>", "chamber": "S", "id": "3181", "state": "IL", "visible": "true", "vote_link": "<A href="http://yahoo.capwiz.com/y/bio/keyvotes/?id=3181" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://yahoo.capwiz.com/y/bio/keyvotes/?id=3181</A>" } }, "lw_1280888774_18": { "text": "Andrew Bacevich notes", "extended": 0, "startchar": 8691, "endchar": 8711, "start": 8699, "end": 8719, "extendedFrom": "Andrew Bacevich", "predictedCategory": "",
"predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 0.792236, "relScore": 6.2342, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 0.792236, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/concept"], "category": ["CONCEPT"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "got us into war in the first place But as Andrew Bacevich notes in his new book Washington Rules America s Path to Permanent", "metaData": { "visible": "false" } }, "lw_1280888774_19": { "text": "Martin Luther King", "extended": 0, "startchar": 9176, "endchar": 9193, "start": 9184, "end": 9201, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "PERSON", "predictionProbability": "0.794498", "weight": 0.440424, "relScore": 1.56029, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 0.440424, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/person/author", "shortcuts:/us/instance/person/historic", "shortcuts:/us/tag/other/wiki"], "category": ["PERSON", "WIKI"], "wikiId": "Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.", "relatedWikiIds":
["Coretta_Scott_King", "Charlton_Heston", "John_F._Kennedy", "James_Earl_Ray", "Barack_Obama", "Civil_rights", "Nancy_Reagan", "Orson_Welles", "Lyndon_B._Johnson", "Hillary_Rodham_Clinton"], "relatedEntities": ["martin luther king jr", "coretta scott king", "president lyndon johnson", "aeschylus", "barack obama", "dr. martin luther", "south carolina", "lyndon johnson", "mitt romney", "henry louis taylor jr"], "showOnClick": ["lw_1280888774_17"], "context": "projection and to demand instead that America come home as Martin Luther King called for in 1967 and focus on resolving its own", "metaData": [ { "visible": "false"}, { "visible": "false"} ] }, "lw_1280888774_20": { "text": "Republican Party", "extended": 0, "startchar": 9785, "endchar": 9800, "start": 9793, "end": 9808, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 0.419667, "relScore": 1.38439, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 0.419667, "prismaScore": 0, "type":
["shortcuts:/us/tag/other/wiki"], "category": ["WIKI"], "wikiId": "Republican_Party_%28United_States%29", "relatedWikiIds": ["John_McCain", "Barack_Obama", "Hillary_Rodham_Clinton", "Democratic_Party_%28United_States%29", "Mitt_Romney", "Mike_Huckabee", "Iowa", "Rudy_Giuliani", "New_Hampshire", "George_W._Bush"], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": ["lw_1280888774_17"], "context": "support for permanent war among the dominant institutions of the Republican Party a stance that effectively disenfranchises the substantial minority of Republican", "metaData": { "visible": "false" } }, "lw_1280888774_21": { "text": "Just Foreign Policy", "extended": 0, "startchar": 10168, "endchar": 10186, "start": 10176, "end": 10194, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 0.703541, "relScore": 2.36298, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 0.703541, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/tag/other/wiki"], "category": ["WIKI"],
"wikiId": "Just_Foreign_Policy", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "a Republican friend and talk to them about it Join Just Foreign Policy on September 24th for a Virtual Brown Bag with Andrew", "metaData": { "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1280888774_22": { "text": "on September 24th", "extended": 0, "startchar": 10188, "endchar": 10204, "start": 10196, "end": 10212, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 1, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/date_only"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "and talk to them about it Join Just Foreign Policy on September 24th for a Virtual Brown Bag with Andrew Bacevich and try", "metaData": { "isoEndDate": "", "isoStartDate": "20100924T100000", "past": "false", "recurring": "false",
"visible": "true" } }, "lw_1280888774_23": { "text": "Andrew Bacevich", "extended": 0, "startchar": 10249, "endchar": 10263, "start": 10257, "end": 10271, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "PERSON", "predictionProbability": "0.688729", "weight": 0.792236, "relScore": 6.2342, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 0.792236, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/person/author", "shortcuts:/us/tag/other/wiki"], "category": ["PERSON", "WIKI"], "wikiId": "Andrew_Bacevich", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "Policy on September 24th for a Virtual Brown Bag with Andrew Bacevich and try to virtually bring your Republican friend<A href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/bacevich-vietnam-vs-munic_b_669502.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/bacevich-vietnam-vs-munic_b_669502.html</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841</A>", "metaData": [ { "visible": "true"}, { "visible": "true"} ] }, "lw_1280888774_24": { "text": "<A href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/bacevich-vietnam-vs-munic_b_669502.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/bacevich-vietnam-vs-munic_b_669502.html</A>", "extended": 0, "startchar": 10463, "endchar": 10545, "start": 10471, "end": 10553, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 1, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/http"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "Andrew Bacevich and try to virtually bring your Republican friend<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/bacevich-vietnam-vs-munic_b_669502.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/bacevich-vietnam-vs-munic_b_669502.html</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/662" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/662</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.justforeignpolicy.org</A>", "metaData": { "linkHref": "<A
href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/bacevich-vietnam-vs-munic_b_669502.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/bacevich-vietnam-vs-munic_b_669502.html</A>", "linkProtocol": "http", "linkTarget": "_blank", "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1280888774_25": { "text": "<A href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841</A>", "extended": 0, "startchar": 10652, "endchar": 10701, "start": 10660, "end": 10709, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 1, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/http"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "Bacevich and try to virtually bring your Republican friend<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/bacevich-vietnam-vs-munic_b_669502.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/bacevich-vietnam-vs-munic_b_669502.html</A><A href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/662" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/662</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy<A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.justforeignpolicy.org</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A>",
"metaData": { "linkHref": "<A href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841</A>", "linkProtocol": "http", "linkTarget": "_blank", "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1280888774_26": { "text": "<A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/662" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/662</A>", "extended": 0, "startchar": 10799, "endchar": 10839, "start": 10807, "end": 10847, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 1, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/http"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "and try to virtually bring your Republican friend<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/bacevich-vietnam-vs-munic_b_669502.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/bacevich-vietnam-vs-munic_b_669502.html</A><A href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/662" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/662</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy<A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.justforeignpolicy.org</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Urge",
"metaData": { "linkHref": "<A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/662" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/662</A>", "linkProtocol": "http", "linkTarget": "_blank", "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1280888774_27": { "text": "<A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.justforeignpolicy.org</A>", "extended": 0, "startchar": 10958, "endchar": 10982, "start": 10966, "end": 10990, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 1, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/place/virtual/web_site"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "<A href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/bacevich-vietnam-vs-munic_b_669502.html" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/bacevich-vietnam-vs-munic_b_669502.html</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841</A><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/662" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/662</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.justforeignpolicy.org</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Urge Congress to Support a Timetable for Military Withdrawal",
"metaData": { "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1280888774_28": { "text": "<A href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A>", "extended": 0, "startchar": 11069, "endchar": 11096, "start": 11077, "end": 11104, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 1, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/http"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "<A href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/662" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/662</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.justforeignpolicy.org</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Urge Congress to Support a Timetable for Military Withdrawal from", "metaData": { "linkHref": "mailto%3A%25e%25", "linkProtocol": "http", "linkYmailto": "<A href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A>", "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1280888774_29": { "text": "<A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern</A>", "extended": 0, "startchar": 11309, "endchar": 11362, "start": 11317, "end": 11370, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 1, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/http"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "Congress to Support a Timetable for Military Withdrawal from Afghanistan<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Peace-discuss mailing list<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Peace-discuss mailing list<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A><A href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</A>", "metaData": { "linkHref": "<A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern</A>", "linkProtocol": "http", "linkTarget": "_blank", "visible":
"true" } }, "lw_1280888774_30": { "text": "<A href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</A>", "extended": 0, "startchar": 11687, "endchar": 11742, "start": 11695, "end": 11750, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "abtScore": 0, "csScore": 1, "prismaScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/http"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "for Military Withdrawal from Afghanistan<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Peace-discuss mailing list<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Peace-discuss mailing list<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A><A href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Robert Naiman Policy Director Just", "metaData": { "linkHref": "<A
href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</A>", "linkProtocol": "http", "linkTarget": "_blank", "visible": "true" } } }; YAHOO.Shortcuts.annotationSetID = "fde9f12086aa47588d54e920e5f35659"; Yes.<BR><BR><BR><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_0 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>On Aug 3, 2010, at 9:13 PM</SPAN>, Robert Naiman wrote:<BR><BR>> There are two separate issues here. One is Bacevich's particular take<BR>> on the causation story. This is something about which reasonable<BR>> people with essentially the same interests and values can, and often<BR>> do, vigorously disagree. For example, how much importance should one<BR>> attach to the<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_1 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>Israel Lobby</SPAN>, the oil industry, the weapons<BR>> manufacturers, etc. in
the<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_2 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>Iraq war</SPAN>? As Chomsky pointed out, noting<BR>> the obvious, it's hard to pull apart the contributions of multiple<BR>> causes that are pointing in the same direction.<BR>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> The other is the question of whether Bacevich is against the Empire.<BR>> That is beyond reasonable dispute. He is, resolutely.<BR>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_3 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 8:59 PM</SPAN>, Brussel Morton K. <<A href="http://us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com/dc/mailto%3A%25e%25" rel=nofollow target=_blank><FONT color=red><B>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be</B></FONT><FONT
color=red><B>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be</B></FONT><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_4 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>mkbrussel@comcast.net</SPAN></A>> wrote:<BR>>> You are nitpicking. Most of what Bacevich says is true ["And the pressure<BR>>> comes from what President Eisenhower called the<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_5 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>military-industrial complex</SPAN>,<BR>>> The pressure comes from the<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_6 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>national security apparatus</SPAN>."], but you don't<BR>>> like his word "norms" . You put the worst possible meaning on what he may<BR>>> mean by that term. The bottom line for me is that he does not agree with
the<BR>>> American policies, wants to see them reversed, and, I would say, has come<BR>>> out strongly against<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_7 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>American imperialism</SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>in general, economic and military.<BR>>> He's explicitly said so, and so written. He may still be a capitalist pig,<BR>>> but your arguments fail in the sense that he objects to the aspects of that<BR>>> capitalism that leads to imperialism, not recognizing, you think, that that<BR>>> is impossible. Finally, you condemn him because he does not come right out<BR>>> and say that Obama is part and parcel of the MI (+ media and academic)<BR>>> complex.<BR>>> IMHO, your last paragraph below ["…are we interested in inventing fictional<BR>>> accounts that aggrandize the patriotic
self-image of people like<BR>>> Bacevich?"] is absolute rubbish, and I'm almost embarrassed that see you<BR>>> stoop in that direction. You invidiously presume to know Bacevich's mind<BR>>> and character.<BR>>> Again, what is most important for me at this time is to stop the killing,<BR>>> stop the occupations, stop the violation of human rights, … ; I'll stick up<BR>>> for those who manifestly work and write for those ends, despite their other<BR>>> perceived defects, lack of understanding, or wanting to change other, or<BR>>> even associated, aspects of the "system".<BR>>> Your approach contributes to rendering progressive politics impotent . Its<BR>>> cock-sure stridency, and intolerance, alienates.<BR>>> --mkb<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_8 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>On Aug 3, 2010, at 7:44 PM</SPAN>, David Green wrote:<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> Every or almost every aspect of Bacevich's analysis is wrong. Two examples<BR>>> from the interview on DN:<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> "We wish to dominate. We wish to ensure that norms that work to the<BR>>> advantage, or perceive to work to the advantage, of the United States<BR>>> prevail across the world. And we are, I think, uniquely, in this moment,<BR>>> determined to rely on military power to enforce those norms."<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> What norm is that? The norm that we control the world's resources? Does<BR>>> Bacevich define these "norms?"<BR>>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> "But you asked the question, where does the pressure come from? And the<BR>>> pressure comes from what President Eisenhower called the military-industrial<BR>>> complex. The pressure comes from the national security apparatus. There are<BR>>> people in institutions who are deeply invested in maintaining the status<BR>>> quo. There are budgets, there are prerogatives, there are ambitions, that<BR>>> ostensibly get satisfied by maintaining this drive for American globalism,<BR>>> again, backed by an emphasis on military power. So I don’t discount for a<BR>>> second that the President would have had to, you know, shove aside some<BR>>> fairly stubborn resistance to make that course change on<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_9 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>Afghanistan</SPAN>, and he<BR>>> chose not to
do it."<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> Yes, there is that, but in service of what or whom? It's the "industrial"<BR>>> aspect that's more important than the military as a fighting force. And it's<BR>>> economic interests that go beyond both to determine our elites' interest in<BR>>> controlling oil. The resistance that the President would have to "shove<BR>>> aside" (and won't, because he doesn't want to) is that of more than the M-I<BR>>> complex, and they also have to do with "credibility" in terms of our use of<BR>>> violence.<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> So are we interested in understanding why we're in Afghanistan and how to<BR>>> explain that to people, or are we interested in inventing fictional accounts<BR>>> that aggrandize the patriotic self-image of people like Bacevich? It's<BR>>> really just a pragmatic
argument. Bob's suggestion won't work, it just won't<BR>>> work, can't work. Ever.<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> DG<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> ________________________________<BR>>> From: Brussel Morton K. <<A href="http://us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com/dc/mailto%3A%25e%25" rel=nofollow target=_blank><FONT color=red><B>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be</B></FONT><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><FONT color=red><B>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be</B></FONT><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>mkbrussel@comcast.net</A>><BR>>> To:<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com/dc/mailto%3A%25e%25" rel=nofollow
target=_blank><FONT color=red><B>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be</B></FONT><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><FONT color=red><B>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be</B></FONT><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_10 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</SPAN></A><BR>>> Cc: Peace-discuss List <<A href="http://us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com/dc/mailto%3A%25e%25" rel=nofollow target=_blank><FONT color=red><B>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be</B></FONT><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><FONT color=red><B>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be</B></FONT><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_11
class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</SPAN></A>><BR>>> Sent: Tue, August 3, 2010 6:46:30 PM<BR>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Bacevich:<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_12 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>Vietnam</SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>vs. Munich, and Creating an<BR>>> "Iraq/Afghanistan Syndrome"<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> Thanks for sending this on, Bob. Some on this list think Bacevich is a<BR>>> stooge, a closet imperialist. Quoting:<BR>>> Bacevich is an imperialist goof.<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> For his generally benighted view, see his book "<SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_13 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>American Empire</SPAN>" (2002),<BR>>> where he wrote about "the imperative of America's mission as the vanguard
of<BR>>> history, transforming the global order and, in doing so, perpetuating its<BR>>> own dominance [guided by] the imperative of military supremacy, maintained<BR>>> in perpetuity and projected globally" (p.215ff.)<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> This is the sort of person who ends up as professor of "international<BR>>> relations" at Boston University (where<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_14 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>Howard Zinn</SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>was hounded out).<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> His objection to American policy in the Mideast on<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_15 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>Democracy Now</SPAN>! today is<BR>>> that it isn't working. We're not killing enough Asians to
make our writ run,<BR>>> and it's too expensive.<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> … [ironic praise for something the author agrees with here.] Continuing:<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> The totality of the interview is the sort of objection that Nazi generals<BR>>> might have made of the Russian campaign.<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> The antiwar movement continues to be in serious trouble when people who<BR>>> purport to be against the war praise Bacevich. --CGE<BR>>> Quite remakable.<BR>>> What is to be emphasized here are the virulent attacks on those who do not<BR>>> precisely say what these guys want them to say (or admit), even when they<BR>>> are saying things that would get the U.S. government to change its<BR>>> behavior. It is all devious, they say. It appears as a
kind of absolutely<BR>>> rigid ideological response not so different from when the Communist party<BR>>> line eminating from Lenin and Stalin condemned those like Rosa Luxemberg,<BR>>> Mensheviks, Trotskyities, socialists of various stripes, etc. in the early<BR>>> part of the<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_16 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>20th century</SPAN>. They would have been happy to see these deviants<BR>>> burned at the stake. (Trotsky indeed was assasinated, and others also fell.)<BR>>> --mkb<BR>>> On Aug 3, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Robert Naiman wrote:<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> Campaigning for President,<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_17 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>Senator Obama</SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>said: "I don't want to
just<BR>>> end the war, but I want to end the mindset that got us into war in the<BR>>> first place." But as<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_18 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>Andrew Bacevich notes</SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>in his new book,<BR>>> "Washington Rules: America's Path to Permanent War," as President,<BR>>> Obama has done the opposite: he has promoted and acted on behalf of<BR>>> the mindset that leads to war. Bacevich's book is a call for Americans<BR>>> to reject the Washington consensus for permanent war, global<BR>>> counterinsurgency and global military power projection, and to demand<BR>>> instead that America "come home," as<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_19 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>Martin Luther King</SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>called
for in<BR>>> 1967, and focus on resolving its own domestic problems rather than act<BR>>> as a self-appointed global police and occupation force. Because of his<BR>>> personal background and establishment credentials, Bacevich may be<BR>>> able to move Americans currently beyond the reach of the peace<BR>>> movement. This is important, because a key task for ending our current<BR>>> wars and preventing future ones is to break the current<BR>>> near-monolithic support for permanent war among the dominant<BR>>> institutions of the<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_20 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>Republican Party</SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>- a stance that effectively<BR>>> disenfranchises the substantial minority of Republican voters who<BR>>> oppose the permanent war.<BR>>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> This is why Bacevich's new book is potentially important for the U.S.<BR>>> peace movement. Get the book, read it, give it to a Republican friend,<BR>>> and talk to them about it. Join<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_21 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>Just Foreign Policy</SPAN><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_22 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>on September 24th</SPAN><BR>>> for a "Virtual Brown Bag" with<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_23 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>Andrew Bacevich</SPAN>, and try to virtually<BR>>> bring your Republican friend.<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/bacevich-vietnam-vs-munic_b_669502.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_24 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/bacevich-vietnam-vs-munic_b_669502.html</SPAN></A><BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841" rel=nofollow target=_blank><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_25 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/3/17494/90841</SPAN></A><BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/662" rel=nofollow target=_blank><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_26 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/662</SPAN></A><BR>>> --<BR>>>
Robert Naiman<BR>>> Policy Director<BR>>> Just Foreign Policy<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/" rel=nofollow target=_blank><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_27 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>www.justforeignpolicy.org</SPAN></A><BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com/dc/mailto%3A%25e%25" rel=nofollow target=_blank><FONT color=red><B>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be</B></FONT><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><FONT color=red><B>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be</B></FONT><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_28 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</SPAN></A><BR>>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> Urge Congress to Support a Timetable for Military Withdrawal from<BR>>> Afghanistan<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern" rel=nofollow target=_blank><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_29 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern</SPAN></A><BR>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>> Peace-discuss mailing list<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com/dc/mailto%3A%25e%25" rel=nofollow target=_blank><FONT color=red><B>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be</B></FONT><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><FONT color=red><B>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to
be</B></FONT><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A><BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel=nofollow target=_blank><SPAN id=yiv2103479044lw_1280888774_30 class=yiv2103479044yshortcuts>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</SPAN></A><BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>> Peace-discuss mailing list<BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com/dc/mailto%3A%25e%25" rel=nofollow target=_blank><FONT color=red><B>MailScanner has detected
a possible fraud attempt from "us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be</B></FONT><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><FONT color=red><B>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be</B></FONT><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A><BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</A><BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> --<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Robert Naiman<BR>> Policy Director<BR>> Just Foreign
Policy<BR>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com/dc/mailto%3A%25e%25" rel=nofollow target=_blank><FONT color=red><B>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be</B></FONT><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><FONT color=red><B>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mg2.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be</B></FONT><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Urge Congress to Support a Timetable for Military Withdrawal from Afghanistan<BR>><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern</A><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR></DIV><BR>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR><BR>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px" class=plainMail>_______________________________________________<BR>Peace-discuss mailing list<BR><A rel=nofollow>Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A><BR><A href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Peace-discuss mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A><BR><A href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</A><BR></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV>
<META content=on http-equiv=x-dns-prefetch-control></DIV></DIV></div><br>
</body></html>