<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><DIV>The gist of the matter, according to Sand, seems to be this: the Jews were not expelled from Judea by the Romans after the fall of the 2nd Temple (70 A.D.); but they did continue to expand their numbers by proselytizing and conversion around the Greek world (in spite of its painfulness for men); but Christians turned out to be better at both P & C (perhaps abetted by being able to C without being C'd; but there's no evidence offered for that); and that Judaism subsequently becoming non-proselytizing and relatively exclusionary was in effect the result of its losing out to the Jesus-freaks in the area of salesmanship (which again challenges an established Jewish stereotype). But again, as Sutcliffe stresses, the historical speculation, although well-founded and well-explained in the
book, is less important than the manner in which the history of Judaism was "invented" in the 19th century by Reform German Jews--including all the way back to Abraham--historians Urred from the start in order to construct a nationalist narrative.</DIV>
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<DIV>DG<BR></DIV>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> C. G. Estabrook <galliher@illinois.edu><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> David Green <davegreen84@yahoo.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Morton K. Brussel <brussel@illinois.edu>; Peace Discuss <peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Mon, August 9, 2010 2:18:55 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Peace-discuss] Shlomo Sand: The Invention of the Jewish People<BR></FONT><BR>
<META content=off http-equiv=x-dns-prefetch-control>OK, I'm going to have to read it. I'm teaching a History of Christianity course in the Religious Studies Department this fall, and in fact there's been some interesting academic work in the last decade on the inter-mixture of Judaism and Christianity ca. 200-500CE. I hope I have students au courant enough to ask about Sand & the the early relationship between Judaism and Christianity. --CGE<BR><BR>On 8/9/10 1:00 PM, David Green wrote:
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<DIV>Hi Mort,</DIV>
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<DIV>I'm more than half-way through it, and it's fascinating, although often tough going. It's also very well-written, well-translated, or both. I think it gets at historical truths, but more interestingly (as Adam points out) at historiographical truths from 19th century Germany, through the origins of Zionism, to the present. What's done is done, and Israel "exists." But it wouldn't hurt if people understood the implications of the likelihood that the Palestinians are descendants of the Judaeans of antiquity, and that Jews like you and me are almost certainly not. It also says a lot about the early relationship between Judaism and Christianity that is not well known.</DIV>
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<DIV>DG<BR></DIV>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Morton K. Brussel <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu"><brussel@illinois.edu></A><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> David Green <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com"><davegreen84@yahoo.com></A><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Mon, August 9, 2010 12:30:47 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Peace-discuss] Shlomo Sand: The Invention of the Jewish People<BR></FONT><BR><BASE>David,
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<DIV>Thanks for sending this along. Have you read Sand's book? Opinions? There are many on the Amazon web site for this book. Of course, how to distinguish the politics from the "truth" is a problem seen there. </DIV>
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<DIV>Mort</DIV>
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<DIV>On Aug 9, 2010, at 8:37 AM, David Green wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">A brief review of this book by Adam Sutcliffe, formerly on the faculty here:</DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><A href="http://www.palestine-studies.org/journals.aspx?id=10668&jid=1&href=fulltext" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.palestine-studies.org/journals.aspx?id=10668&jid=1&href=fulltext</A></DIV>
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