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You've established your Higher Seriousness with your reference to
how "historians Urred from the start". But I think Ur being
Chaldeeish... <br>
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On 8/9/10 2:53 PM, David Green wrote:
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<div>The gist of the matter, according to Sand, seems to be
this: the Jews were not expelled from Judea by the Romans
after the fall of the 2nd Temple (70 A.D.); but they did
continue to expand their numbers by proselytizing and
conversion around the Greek world (in spite of its painfulness
for men); but Christians turned out to be better at both P
& C (perhaps abetted by being able to C without being C'd;
but there's no evidence offered for that); and that Judaism
subsequently becoming non-proselytizing and relatively
exclusionary was in effect the result of its losing out to the
Jesus-freaks in the area of salesmanship (which again
challenges an established Jewish stereotype). But again, as
Sutcliffe stresses, the historical speculation, although
well-founded and well-explained in the book, is less important
than the manner in which the history of Judaism was "invented"
in the 19th century by Reform German Jews--including all the
way back to Abraham--historians Urred from the start in order
to construct a nationalist narrative.</div>
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<div>DG<br>
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<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> C. G.
Estabrook <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"><galliher@illinois.edu></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> David
Green <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com"><davegreen84@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Morton
K. Brussel <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu"><brussel@illinois.edu></a>; Peace Discuss
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"><peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Mon,
August 9, 2010 2:18:55 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Peace-discuss] Shlomo Sand: The Invention of the
Jewish People<br>
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OK, I'm going to have to read it. I'm teaching a History of
Christianity course in the Religious Studies Department this
fall, and in fact there's been some interesting academic
work in the last decade on the inter-mixture of Judaism and
Christianity ca. 200-500CE. I hope I have students au
courant enough to ask about Sand & the the early
relationship between Judaism and Christianity. --CGE<br>
<br>
On 8/9/10 1:00 PM, David Green wrote:
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<div>Hi Mort,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'm more than half-way through it, and it's
fascinating, although often tough going. It's also
very well-written, well-translated, or both. I think
it gets at historical truths, but more interestingly
(as Adam points out) at historiographical truths from
19th century Germany, through the origins of Zionism,
to the present. What's done is done, and Israel
"exists." But it wouldn't hurt if people understood
the implications of the likelihood that the
Palestinians are descendants of the Judaeans of
antiquity, and that Jews like you and me are almost
certainly not. It also says a lot about the early
relationship between Judaism and Christianity that is
not well known.</div>
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<div>DG<br>
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<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
Morton K. Brussel <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu"><brussel@illinois.edu></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
David Green <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com"><davegreen84@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Mon, August 9, 2010 12:30:47 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Peace-discuss] Shlomo Sand: The Invention of
the Jewish People<br>
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<base>David,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for sending this along. Have you read
Sand's book? Opinions? There are many on the
Amazon web site for this book. Of course, how to
distinguish the politics from the "truth" is a
problem seen there. </div>
<div><br>
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<div>Mort</div>
<div><br>
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<div>On Aug 9, 2010, at 8:37 AM, David Green
wrote:</div>
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<div style="margin: 0px;">A brief review
of this book by Adam Sutcliffe,
formerly on the faculty here:</div>
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href="http://www.palestine-studies.org/journals.aspx?id=10668&jid=1&href=fulltext"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.palestine-studies.org/journals.aspx?id=10668&jid=1&href=fulltext</a></div>
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