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Mort--<br>
<br>
[1] I take it that you're volunteering for the panel "Ditchkins and
the Pope (and God)" that I'm putting together for News from Neptune
on UPTV (date TBA).<br>
<br>
I envision four participants - I mean local participants (i.e., not
Dawkins, Hitchens, Benedict, & God) - of which you and I are
two, discussing the following four texts: <br>
<br>
--R. Dawkins, "The God Delusion";<br>
<br>
--C. Hitchens, "God is Not Great";<br>
<br>
--P. Benedict, "Caritas in veritate" (his economic manifesto - in
English); and<br>
<br>
--T. Eagleton (standing in for God), <span style="white-space:
pre;">"Reason, Faith, and Revolution: Reflections on the God
Debate."<br>
<br>
Perhaps you can suggest other discussants, or they may volunteer
themselves. </span><br>
<br>
<br>
[2] Far from being “a despicable outrage,” the paragraph from the
pope that "set off Dawkins" contains the following true statements:<br>
<br>
"...a Nazi tyranny ... denied our common humanity to many,
especially the Jews...; [and] <br>
<br>
"...Christian pastors and religious who spoke the truth in love
[and] opposed the Nazis ... paid for that opposition with their
lives..."<br>
<br>
- and the following debatable one (true I think as the Marxists say
"in the last instance"):<br>
<br>
"...the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads
ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society..."<br>
<br>
But that last after all was what he was trying to convince people
of. Let's discuss it. <br>
<br>
Regards, Carl<br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/19/10 11:25 PM, Morton K. Brussel wrote:<br>
<span style="white-space: pre;">> So what do you disagree with in
Dawkins' reply? Arguments would be<br>
> more useful than sneers. Perhaps you should read his book(s)
and doff<br>
> your parochial hat..<br>
> <br>
> His remarks were both apt and appreciated...<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Sep 19, 2010, at 9:44 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:<br>
> <br>
>> If anyone took Dawkins seriously before this, I doubt
they will<br>
>> now.<br>
>> <br>
>> For those who are still abject believers, I recommend
Terry<br>
>> Eagleton, "Reason, Faith, and Revolution: Reflections on
the God<br>
>> Debate" (Yale UP pbk, 2010).<br>
>> <br>
>> If I thought anyone took Ditchkins seriously, I'd propose
a<br>
>> symposium or panel on the subject. I doubt I'd find many
takers.<br>
>> <br>
>> Actually, I'd be willing to host it on my UPTV program,
News from<br>
>> Neptune.<br>
>> <br>
>> But I don't think anyone's interested enough for that.<br>
>> <br>
>> ...<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Richard Dawkins Furious At Pope For Tying Godless To
Nazis<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Posted in Liberaland by Alan • September 17, 2010,<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Pope Benedict’s speech to Queen Elizabeth in England
praised how <br>
>>> Britain fought “Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate
God from <br>
>>> society,” prompting one of the world’s best known
atheists,<br>
>>> Richard Dawkins, to proclaim it “a despicable
outrage.” What set<br>
>>> off Dawkins is this paragraph:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> “Even in our own lifetime, we can recall how Britain
and her<br>
>>> leaders stood against a Nazi tyranny that wished to
eradicate God<br>
>>> from society and denied our common humanity to many,
especially<br>
>>> the Jews, who were thought unfit to live. I also
recall the<br>
>>> regime’s attitude to Christian pastors and religious
who spoke<br>
>>> the truth in love, opposed the Nazis and paid for
that opposition<br>
>>> with their lives. As we reflect on the sobering
lessons of the<br>
>>> atheist extremism of the twentieth century, let us
never forget<br>
>>> how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from
public life<br>
>>> leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of
society and<br>
>>> thus to a “reductive vision of the person and his
destiny”<br>
>>> (Caritas in Veritate, 29).”<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Dawkins responds:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Even if Hitler had been an atheist, his political
philosophy was<br>
>>> not based upon atheism and had no connection with
atheism. Hitler<br>
>>> was arguably (and by his own account) a Roman
Catholic. In any<br>
>>> case he enjoyed the open support of many of the most
senior<br>
>>> catholic clergy in Germany and the less demonstrative
support of<br>
>>> Pope Pius XII. Even if Hitler had been an atheist (he
certainly<br>
>>> was not), the rank and file Germans who carried out
the attempted<br>
>>> extermination of the Jews were Christians, almost to
a man:<br>
>>> either Catholic or Lutheran, primed to their
anti-Semitism by<br>
>>> centuries of Catholic propaganda about
‘Christ-killers’ and by<br>
>>> Martin Luther’s own seething hatred of the Jews. To
mention<br>
>>> Ratzinger’s membership of the Hitler Youth might be
thought to be<br>
>>> fighting dirty, but my feeling is that the gloves are
off after<br>
>>> this disgraceful paragraph by the pope.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Dawkins is urging a letter-writing campaign to
British media in<br>
>>> protest, adding:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> I am incandescent with rage at the sycophantic BBC
coverage, and<br>
>>> the sight of British toadies bowing and scraping to
this odious<br>
>>> man. I thought he was bad before. This puts the lid
on it.<br>
</span><br>
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