<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><DIV>Laurie, for those of us in the running for the honor of not to be taken seriously, you have invariably offered some pretty stiff competition.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>DG<BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma>
<HR SIZE=1>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Laurie Solomon <ls1000@live.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Morton K. Brussel <brussel@illinois.edu>; C. G. Estabrook <galliher@illinois.edu><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> E.Wayne Johnson <ewj@pigs.ag>; Peace-discuss <peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Mon, September 20, 2010 11:59:58 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Richard Dawkins Furious At PopeFor TyingGodless To Nazis<BR></FONT><BR>
<META content=off http-equiv=x-dns-prefetch-control>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>Funny, I have heard many people express the same comments with respect to Carl on many occasions that he has articulated in his post with respect to Dawkins, namely:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>><FONT face="Times New Roman">If anyone took Dawkins seriously before this, I doubt they will now.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><FONT face="Times New Roman">>If I thought anyone took Ditchkins seriously, I'd propose a symposium or panel on the subject. I doubt I'd find many takers.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT face=Calibri>Ironically, I do have to wonder how many people are really interested enough to actually tune into Carl's UPTV program once you discount his small group of followers and members of AWARE.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT><BR> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=brussel@illinois.edu href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu">Morton K. Brussel</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, September 19, 2010 11:25 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu">C. G. Estabrook</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title="mailto:ewj@pigs.ag CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:ewj@pigs.ag" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:ewj@pigs.ag">E.Wayne Johnson</A> ; <A title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Richard Dawkins Furious At PopeFor TyingGodless To Nazis</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>So what do you disagree with in Dawkins' reply? Arguments would be more useful than sneers. Perhaps you should read his book(s) and doff your parochial hat..
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>His remarks were both apt and appreciated.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>--mkb</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>Thanks, Jenifer, for relaying these remarks. </DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Sep 19, 2010, at 9:44 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>If anyone took Dawkins seriously before this, I doubt they will now.<BR><BR>For those who are still abject believers, I recommend Terry Eagleton, "Reason, Faith, and Revolution: Reflections on the God Debate" (Yale UP pbk, 2010).<BR><BR>If I thought anyone took Ditchkins seriously, I'd propose a symposium or panel on the subject. I doubt I'd find many takers.<BR><BR>Actually, I'd be willing to host it on my UPTV program, News from Neptune. <BR><BR>But I don't think anyone's interested enough for that. <BR><BR><BR>On 9/19/10 9:31 PM, E.Wayne Johnson wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Most importantly, the Nazis were German.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>That fact explains the lion's share of the variance.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228)"><B>From:</B> <A title=jencart13@yahoo.com href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com">Jenifer Cartwright</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 20, 2010 1:32 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Richard Dawkins Furious At Pope For TyingGodless To Nazis</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>Have at it, folks.
<DIV> --Jenifer<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sun, 9/19/10, fransears<I>></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
<DIV class=plainMail>Richard Dawkins Furious At Pope For Tying Godless To Nazis<BR><BR>Posted in Liberaland by Alan • September 17, 2010,<BR><BR>Pope Benedict’s speech to Queen Elizabeth in England praised how<BR>Britain fought “Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from<BR>society,” prompting one of the world’s best known atheists, Richard<BR>Dawkins, to proclaim it “a despicable outrage.” What set off Dawkins<BR>is this paragraph:<BR><BR>“Even in our own lifetime, we can recall how Britain and her leaders<BR>stood against a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society<BR>and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews, who were<BR>thought unfit to live. I also recall the regime’s attitude to<BR>Christian pastors and religious who spoke the truth in love, opposed<BR>the Nazis and paid for that opposition with their lives. As we reflect<BR>on the sobering lessons of the atheist extremism of the
twentieth<BR>century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and<BR>virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man<BR>and of society and thus to a “reductive vision of the person and his<BR>destiny” (Caritas in Veritate, 29).”<BR><BR>Dawkins responds:<BR><BR>Even if Hitler had been an atheist, his political philosophy was not<BR>based upon atheism and had no connection with atheism. Hitler was<BR>arguably (and by his own account) a Roman Catholic. In any case he<BR>enjoyed the open support of many of the most senior catholic clergy in<BR>Germany and the less demonstrative support of Pope Pius XII. Even if<BR>Hitler had been an atheist (he certainly was not), the rank and file<BR>Germans who carried out the attempted extermination of the Jews were<BR>Christians, almost to a man: either Catholic or Lutheran, primed to<BR>their anti-Semitism by centuries of Catholic propaganda about<BR>‘Christ-killers’ and
by Martin Luther’s own seething hatred of the<BR>Jews. To mention Ratzinger’s membership of the Hitler Youth might be<BR>thought to be fighting dirty, but my feeling is that the gloves are<BR>off after this disgraceful paragraph by the pope.<BR><BR>Dawkins is urging a letter-writing campaign to British media in protest, adding:<BR><BR>I am incandescent with rage at the sycophantic BBC coverage, and the<BR>sight of British toadies bowing and scraping to this odious man. I<BR>thought he was bad before. This puts the lid on it.<BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<HR>
_______________________________________________<BR>Peace-discuss mailing list<BR><A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A><BR><A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE><FIELDSET class=mimeAttachmentHeader></FIELDSET>
_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</A>
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>Peace-discuss mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A><BR>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Peace-discuss mailing list<BR>Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net<BR>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss<BR>
<META content=on http-equiv=x-dns-prefetch-control></DIV></DIV></div><br>
</body></html>