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<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>Funny, I have heard many people express the same
comments with respect to Carl on many occasions that he has articulated in
his post with respect to Dawkins, namely:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>><FONT face="Times New Roman">If anyone took Dawkins
seriously before this, I doubt they will now.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><FONT face="Times New Roman">>If I thought anyone
took Ditchkins seriously, I'd propose a symposium or panel on the subject.
I doubt I'd find many takers.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT
face=Calibri>Ironically, I do have to wonder how many people are really
interested enough to actually tune into Carl's UPTV program once you
discount his small group of followers and members of AWARE.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT><BR> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=brussel@illinois.edu
href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu">Morton K. Brussel</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, September 19, 2010 11:25 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A
title="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu">C. G. Estabrook</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title="mailto:ewj@pigs.ag CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:ewj@pigs.ag">E.Wayne Johnson</A> ; <A
title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Richard Dawkins Furious At PopeFor
TyingGodless To Nazis</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>So what do you disagree with in Dawkins' reply?
Arguments would be more useful than sneers. Perhaps you should read his
book(s) and doff your parochial hat..
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>His remarks were both apt and appreciated.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>--mkb</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>Thanks, Jenifer, for relaying these remarks. </DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Sep 19, 2010, at 9:44 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">If anyone took Dawkins seriously before
this, I doubt they will now.<BR><BR>For those who are still abject believers,
I recommend Terry Eagleton, "Reason, Faith, and Revolution: Reflections on the
God Debate" (Yale UP pbk, 2010).<BR><BR>If I thought anyone took
Ditchkins seriously, I'd propose a symposium or panel on the subject. I
doubt I'd find many takers.<BR><BR>Actually, I'd be willing to host it on my
UPTV program, News from Neptune. <BR><BR>But I don't think anyone's interested
enough for that. <BR><BR><BR>On 9/19/10 9:31 PM, E.Wayne Johnson wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:4454BF601406422286B913FF74827E20@ACERLAPTOP
type="cite"><STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Most importantly, the Nazis were
German.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>That fact explains the lion's share of the
variance.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228)"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jencart13@yahoo.com href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jenifer Cartwright</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">Peace-discuss</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 20, 2010 1:32
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Richard
Dawkins Furious At Pope For TyingGodless To Nazis</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
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<TD vAlign=top>Have at it, folks.
<DIV> --Jenifer<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sun, 9/19/10,
fransears<I>></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
<DIV class=plainMail>Richard Dawkins Furious At Pope For Tying
Godless To Nazis<BR><BR>Posted in Liberaland by Alan • September
17, 2010,<BR><BR>Pope Benedict’s speech to Queen Elizabeth in
England praised how<BR>Britain fought “Nazi tyranny that wished to
eradicate God from<BR>society,” prompting one of the world’s best
known atheists, Richard<BR>Dawkins, to proclaim it “a
despicable outrage.” What set off Dawkins<BR>is this
paragraph:<BR><BR>“Even in our own lifetime, we can recall how
Britain and her leaders<BR>stood against a Nazi tyranny that
wished to eradicate God from society<BR>and denied our common
humanity to many, especially the Jews, who were<BR>thought unfit
to live. I also recall the regime’s attitude to<BR>Christian
pastors and religious who spoke the truth in love, opposed<BR>the
Nazis and paid for that opposition with their lives. As we
reflect<BR>on the sobering lessons of the atheist extremism of the
twentieth<BR>century, let us never forget how the exclusion of
God, religion and<BR>virtue from public life leads ultimately to a
truncated vision of man<BR>and of society and thus to a “reductive
vision of the person and his<BR>destiny” (Caritas in Veritate,
29).”<BR><BR>Dawkins responds:<BR><BR>Even if Hitler had been an
atheist, his political philosophy was not<BR>based upon atheism
and had no connection with atheism. Hitler was<BR>arguably (and by
his own account) a Roman Catholic. In any case he<BR>enjoyed the
open support of many of the most senior catholic clergy
in<BR>Germany and the less demonstrative support of Pope Pius XII.
Even if<BR>Hitler had been an atheist (he certainly was not), the
rank and file<BR>Germans who carried out the attempted
extermination of the Jews were<BR>Christians, almost to a man:
either Catholic or Lutheran, primed to<BR>their anti-Semitism by
centuries of Catholic propaganda about<BR>‘Christ-killers’ and by
Martin Luther’s own seething hatred of the<BR>Jews. To mention
Ratzinger’s membership of the Hitler Youth might be<BR>thought to
be fighting dirty, but my feeling is that the gloves are<BR>off
after this disgraceful paragraph by the pope.<BR><BR>Dawkins is
urging a letter-writing campaign to British media in protest,
adding:<BR><BR>I am incandescent with rage at the sycophantic BBC
coverage, and the<BR>sight of British toadies bowing and scraping
to this odious man. I<BR>thought he was bad before. This puts the
lid on it.<BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
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