<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><DIV>"NONE of these libertarian-right-wing-nut jobs claim to be Progressives"</DIV>
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<DIV>to their credit.<BR></DIV>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13@yahoo.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> David Green <davegreen84@yahoo.com>; naiman.uiuc@gmail.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Peace Discuss <peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tue, October 19, 2010 9:03:23 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Peace-discuss] Matt Taibbi: Tea Party Parasites<BR></FONT><BR>
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<TD vAlign=top>Good post, Bob, thanks.
<DIV>And of course, NONE of these libertarian-right-wing-nut jobs claim to be Progressives, nor do they support- and fight for ANY Progressive causes.
<DIV> --Jenifer</DIV>
<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 10/19/10, Robert Naiman <I><naiman.uiuc@gmail.com></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc@gmail.com><BR>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Matt Taibbi: Tea Party Parasites<BR>To: "David Green" <davegreen84@yahoo.com><BR>Cc: "Peace Discuss" <peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net><BR>Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 8:53 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV class=plainMail>Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about what is<BR>"shocking," "dishonest," and "utterly reprehensible." For me, people<BR>who wear the mantle of "progressive" while carrying water for the<BR>violent and racist far-Right are "shocking," "dishonest," and "utterly<BR>reprehensible." So, as I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree.<BR><BR>On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 8:47 AM, David Green <<A rel=nofollow>davegreen84@yahoo.com</A>> wrote:<BR>> Bob, this just really shocks me, I guess. Paul's hypocrisy is allegedly to<BR>> take money from the government whiling being "anti-government." The<BR>> hypocrisy of the "democratically-elected" Democrats is to condescend to<BR>> people who are "mad as hell" (for lots of good reasons, although not often<BR>> clearly articulated), and then drop bombs on Pakistan and support Israel's<BR>> behavior, etc. I'll take the hypocrisy of "the people" any day, even
someone<BR>> is problematic as Rand Paul. For you to play the McVeigh card is dishonest<BR>> and utterly reprehensible. How did you feel about the government dropping a<BR>> bomb in Waco?<BR>><BR>> David<BR>><BR>> ________________________________<BR>> From: Robert Naiman <<A rel=nofollow>naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</A>><BR>> To: E.Wayne Johnson <<A rel=nofollow>ewj@pigs.ag</A>><BR>> Cc: Peace-discuss List <<A rel=nofollow>peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>><BR>> Sent: Tue, October 19, 2010 8:28:18 AM<BR>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Matt Taibbi: Tea Party Parasites<BR>><BR>> Cheap shot? It is an essential fact to understand. Someone who is a<BR>> darling of the "anti-government" Tea Party Right is taking government<BR>> money as a major source of their income. This is a key fact that<BR>> people should know in evaluating whether the Tea Party offers a<BR>> political alternative that
progressives should have sympathy for.<BR>><BR>> Most people who count themselves progressive could never agree to your<BR>> claim that just because a group of people are "mad as hell about the<BR>> status quo" we should count ourselves among their number. Timothy<BR>> McVeigh was "mad as hell about the status quo." In a showdown between<BR>> the fellow travelers of Timothy McVeigh and the democratically-elected<BR>> government, I will be on the side of the democratically-elected<BR>> government.<BR>><BR>> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 9:49 PM, E.Wayne Johnson <<A rel=nofollow>ewj@pigs.ag</A>> wrote:<BR>>> I like the way that Matt Taibbi points out many ills in the society<BR>>> generally without compromise.<BR>>><BR>>> Matt Taibbi rightly points out the hypocrisy, and I am not a big fan<BR>>> of Rand Paul (he ain't Ron), it is a pretty cheap shot saying that an eye<BR>>>
doctor<BR>>> has a blind spot in his ideology because he treats patients who are<BR>>> funded by government programs.<BR>>><BR>>> The Tea Party is a highly diverse group of people who are mad as hell<BR>>> about<BR>>> the status quo.<BR>>><BR>>> We all ought to be Tea Partiers on that account.<BR>>><BR>>> The Powers That Be in both parties hate and fear the Tea Party. .<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Naiman" <<A rel=nofollow>naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</A>><BR>>> To: "Peace-discuss List" <<A rel=nofollow>peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>><BR>>> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 10:43 PM<BR>>> Subject: [Peace-discuss] Matt Taibbi: Tea Party Parasites<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> <A href="http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/matt-taibbi/blogs/TaibbiData_May2010/218982/83512" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/matt-taibbi/blogs/TaibbiData_May2010/218982/83512</A><BR>>><BR>>> October 12, 2010 4:16 P.M. EDT | By Matt Taibbi<BR>>><BR>>> More Tea Party Hilarity<BR>>><BR>>> Quelle surprise! So it turns out that one after another of the Tea<BR>>> Party candidates is in one way or another mooching off the government.<BR>>> The latest series of hilarious disclosures center around Alaska’s<BR>>> GI-Joe-bearded windbag Senatorial candidate, Joe Miller, who appears<BR>>> to have run virtually the entire gamut of government aid en route to<BR>>> becoming a staunch, fist-shaking opponent of the welfare state.<BR>>><BR>>> Miller’s pomposity and piety with regard to government aid programs<BR>>> has all along been in line with the usual screechingly hysterical<BR>>> self-righteousness Tea Party candidates bring to such matters,
railing<BR>>> against Obamacare and other “entitlement” programs and promising to<BR>>> end the “welfare state.” That makes it all the more delicious now that<BR>>> he and his family have been exposed for taking state medical aid,<BR>>> unemployment insurance, farm subsidies, hell, even for using state<BR>>> equipment to run a private political campaign.<BR>>><BR>>> Back in June, Miller was saying this about his Republican primary<BR>>> opponent Lisa Murkowski, blasting her for supporting a state health<BR>>> care program:<BR>>><BR>>> As you are aware, just last week the Anchorage Daily News reported<BR>>> that the Denali KidCare Program funded 662 abortions last year.<BR>>> Senator Murkowski has been a champion of this program, voting against<BR>>> the majority of her Republican colleagues for CHIPRA (HR 2) in January<BR>>> of 2009.<BR>>><BR>>>
Of course it now turns out that back in the Nineties, Miller himself<BR>>> and his three children (with one on the way; he now has eight) were at<BR>>> one point receiving assistance via a program almost exactly like the<BR>>> Denali KidCare program, which is only for low-income earners. Various<BR>>> reports note that Miller received this assistance after he’d bought a<BR>>> house and been hired by a prestigious law firm; he also got low-income<BR>>> hunting and fishing licenses during that time. It’s also come out that<BR>>> he received some $7,000 in farm subsidies and that his wife received<BR>>> unemployment insurance benefits.<BR>>><BR>>> So now of course Miller, who said he and his family “absolutely” used<BR>>> Alaska’s state medical program, is backtracking and saying that he’s<BR>>> not against the modern Denali Kidcare program, only against the<BR>>>
“expansion” of it. But even more telling was his longer answer about<BR>>> the program, as reported in the Anchorage Daily News:<BR>>><BR>>> Miller said what he's advocating is complete state control of the<BR>>> programs. "That doesn't mean we cut off the programs. That is<BR>>> ultimately a state decision. And I think there is a use; in fact the<BR>>> most effective use is probably those programs that help transition the<BR>>> populations from more of a situation of dependency" to one where they<BR>>> can be economically independent, Miller said.<BR>>><BR>>> You see, when a nice white lawyer with a GI Joe beard uses state aid<BR>>> to help him through tough times and get over the hump – so that he can<BR>>> go from having three little future Medicare-collecting Republican<BR>>> children to eight little future Medicare-collecting Republican<BR>>> children –
that’s a good solid use of government aid, because what<BR>>> we’re doing is helping someone “transition” from dependency to<BR>>> economic independence.<BR>>><BR>>> This of course is different from the way other, less GI-Joe-looking<BR>>> people use government aid, i.e. as a permanent crutch that helps<BR>>> genetically lazy and ambitionless parasites mooch off of rich white<BR>>> taxpayers instead of getting real jobs.<BR>>><BR>>> I can’t even tell you how many people I interviewed at Tea Party<BR>>> events who came up with one version or another of the Joe Miller<BR>>> defense. Yes, I’m on Medicare, but… I needed it! It’s those other<BR>>> people who don’t need it who are the problem!<BR>>><BR>>> Or: Yes, it’s true, I retired from the police/military/DPW at 54 and<BR>>> am on a fat government pension that you and your kids are going to
be<BR>>> paying for for the next forty years, while I sit in my plywood-paneled<BR>>> living room in Florida watching Fox News, gobbling Medicare-funded<BR>>> prescription medications, and railing against welfare queens. But I<BR>>> worked hard for those bennies! Not like those other people!<BR>>><BR>>> This whole concept of “good welfare” and “bad welfare” is at the heart<BR>>> of the Tea Party ideology, and it’s something that is believed<BR>>> implicitly across the line. It’s why so many of their political<BR>>> champions, like Miller, and sniveling Kentucky rich kid Rand Paul (a<BR>>> doctor whose patient base is 50% state insured), and Nevada “crazy<BR>>> juice” Senate candidate Sharron Angle (who’s covered by husband Ted’s<BR>>> Federal Employee Health Plan insurance), are so completely<BR>>> unapologetic about taking state aid with one hand and
jacking off<BR>>> angry pseudo-libertarian mobs with the other.<BR>>><BR>>> They genuinely don’t see the contradiction, much in the same way that<BR>>> some Wall Street people genuinely can’t see the problem with their<BR>>> company, say, taking $13 billion in bonuses in the same year that they<BR>>> accepted $13 billion in state bailouts. You wave a pitchfork at them<BR>>> with little post-its of the relevant figures taped to the ends, and<BR>>> ask them to confess – and they can’t, because they literally don’t see<BR>>> your point.<BR>>><BR>>> After all, these bankers will protest, we needed to pay out those<BR>>> billions in bonuses to stay competitive! It’s not like we’re just<BR>>> taking the money willy-nilly, like those dreadful people in ratty army<BR>>> coats who shop with food stamps in the bodega downstairs!<BR>>><BR>>> The
rationalization continues: If I can’t help my department heads buy<BR>>> Porsches, they say, the whole system collapses, and the system is<BR>>> what’s important. It’s not like simply handing out money to people who<BR>>> can’t pay their mortgages, which of course is real waste. As Berkshire<BR>>> Hathaway investment titan Charles Munger put it, it’s those people who<BR>>> have to “suck it in and cope.” But bailouts for companies like the<BR>>> ones Munger invests in, like Wells Fargo and Goldman, that’s<BR>>> preserving the system – and we should all “thank God” for that kind of<BR>>> state aid.<BR>>><BR>>> The reason these arguments are inherently ridiculous is that if you<BR>>> live in America, you have a pretty good chance of being in some way or<BR>>> another dependent upon government aid. Whether it’s aerospace or<BR>>> military contracting or
farm subsidies or grants in academia, medicine<BR>>> or the arts… most of us are in some way living off of this spending,<BR>>> directly or indirectly. Defense spending in particular has been a<BR>>> primary engine of American capitalism for more than half a century<BR>>> now. And government subsidies of agriculture and financial services<BR>>> have begun to rival defense largesse.<BR>>><BR>>> All of which would normally make it unfair for any journalist to go<BR>>> after a politician for taking government aid. After all, pretty much<BR>>> everybody has in some way or another lived off the government in his<BR>>> life – whether by working in a firm that takes government contracts,<BR>>> or attending a state school, or getting into a college thanks to<BR>>> affirmative action programs, or serving in the military or law<BR>>> enforcement, or collecting Medicare or food
stamps or unemployment.<BR>>><BR>>> But these Tea Partyers make themselves fair game with their<BR>>> preposterous absolutist stance on government. If you call Obamacare<BR>>> radical socialism and unemployment insurance a parasitic welfare state<BR>>> program—well, guess what, asshole, you’re going to get rung up when we<BR>>> find out you had your whole family living off state medical aid and<BR>>> farm subsidies.<BR>>><BR>>> Even beyond that, though, is the way that Tea Party candidates and<BR>>> activists demonize the consumers of “entitlement” programs, branding<BR>>> them as lazy parasites who are taking from hard-working folk by<BR>>> supporting “redistributionist” politicians. You probably heard about<BR>>> the story of David Jungerman, the Kansas farmer who created a<BR>>> billboard that read as follows:<BR>>><BR>>> ARE YOU A PRODUCER OR
A PARASITE?<BR>>><BR>>> DEMOCRATS – THE PARTY OF PARASITES<BR>>><BR>>> Of course it now turns out that Jungerman himself took over a million<BR>>> dollars in farm subsidies since 1995. When asked about the apparently<BR>>> contradiction, Jungerman offered the Miller defense:<BR>>><BR>>> “That’s just my money coming back to me,” Jungerman, 72, said Monday.<BR>>> “I pay a lot in taxes. I’m not a parasite.”<BR>>><BR>>> In Tea Party legend the “parasites” would I suppose be people who<BR>>> don’t pay taxes, or pay few taxes, and receive government support in<BR>>> excess of what they pay. Maybe they mean the 39-odd million Americans<BR>>> (about 1 in 8) who are now receiving food stamps. In the Hobbesian<BR>>> jungle the Tea Partyers would prefer we all live in, it’s true, most<BR>>> of those 39 million people (including the just under
50% of all<BR>>> children, and 90% of black children, who will at some point in their<BR>>> lives eat a meal bought with food stamps) would indeed be sucking wind<BR>>> instead of eating cheese.<BR>>><BR>>> These are the parasites they’re probably talking about. You know,<BR>>> children. Meanwhile, a slick grownup yuppie politician with a GI Joe<BR>>> beard and a breeder wife and eight kids, leeching off the state at<BR>>> every turn and gunning for a U.S. Senate salary and pension on an<BR>>> anti-welfare platform, he’s just a hardworking citizen who simply<BR>>> needed a lift during a “transitional” period. Man, did they break the<BR>>> mold when they made these assholes.<BR>>><BR>>> --<BR>>> Robert Naiman<BR>>> Policy Director<BR>>> Just Foreign Policy<BR>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org<BR>>> <A
rel=nofollow>naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR>>><BR>>> Urge Congress to Support a Timetable for Military Withdrawal from<BR>>> Afghanistan<BR>>> <A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern</A><BR>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>> Peace-discuss mailing list<BR>>> <A rel=nofollow>Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A><BR>>> <A href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</A><BR>>><BR>>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> --<BR>> Robert Naiman<BR>> Policy Director<BR>> Just Foreign Policy<BR>> www.justforeignpolicy.org<BR>> <A rel=nofollow>naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR>><BR>> Urge Congress to Support a Timetable for Military Withdrawal from<BR>>
Afghanistan<BR>> <A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern</A><BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> Peace-discuss mailing list<BR>> <A rel=nofollow>Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A><BR>> <A href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</A><BR>><BR>><BR><BR><BR><BR>-- <BR>Robert Naiman<BR>Policy Director<BR>Just Foreign Policy<BR>www.justforeignpolicy.org<BR><A rel=nofollow>naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</A><BR><BR>Urge Congress to Support a Timetable for Military Withdrawal from Afghanistan<BR><A href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern</A><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Peace-discuss
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