<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">Good post, Bob, thanks.<div>And of course, NONE of these libertarian-right-wing-nut jobs claim to be Progressives, nor do they support- and fight for ANY Progressive causes.<div> --Jenifer</div><div><br>--- On <b>Tue, 10/19/10, Robert Naiman <i><naiman.uiuc@gmail.com></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc@gmail.com><br>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Matt Taibbi: Tea Party Parasites<br>To: "David Green" <davegreen84@yahoo.com><br>Cc: "Peace Discuss" <peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net><br>Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 8:53 AM<br><br><div class="plainMail">Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about what is<br>"shocking," "dishonest," and "utterly reprehensible." For me, people<br>who wear the mantle of
"progressive" while carrying water for the<br>violent and racist far-Right are "shocking," "dishonest," and "utterly<br>reprehensible." So, as I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree.<br><br>On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 8:47 AM, David Green <<a ymailto="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com" href="/mc/compose?to=davegreen84@yahoo.com">davegreen84@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>> Bob, this just really shocks me, I guess. Paul's hypocrisy is allegedly to<br>> take money from the government whiling being "anti-government." The<br>> hypocrisy of the "democratically-elected" Democrats is to condescend to<br>> people who are "mad as hell" (for lots of good reasons, although not often<br>> clearly articulated), and then drop bombs on Pakistan and support Israel's<br>> behavior, etc. I'll take the hypocrisy of "the people" any day, even someone<br>> is problematic as Rand Paul. For you to play the McVeigh card is dishonest<br>> and utterly
reprehensible. How did you feel about the government dropping a<br>> bomb in Waco?<br>><br>> David<br>><br>> ________________________________<br>> From: Robert Naiman <<a ymailto="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com" href="/mc/compose?to=naiman.uiuc@gmail.com">naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</a>><br>> To: E.Wayne Johnson <<a ymailto="mailto:ewj@pigs.ag" href="/mc/compose?to=ewj@pigs.ag">ewj@pigs.ag</a>><br>> Cc: Peace-discuss List <<a ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" href="/mc/compose?to=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>><br>> Sent: Tue, October 19, 2010 8:28:18 AM<br>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Matt Taibbi: Tea Party Parasites<br>><br>> Cheap shot? It is an essential fact to understand. Someone who is a<br>> darling of the "anti-government" Tea Party Right is taking government<br>> money as a major source of their income. This is a key fact that<br>>
people should know in evaluating whether the Tea Party offers a<br>> political alternative that progressives should have sympathy for.<br>><br>> Most people who count themselves progressive could never agree to your<br>> claim that just because a group of people are "mad as hell about the<br>> status quo" we should count ourselves among their number. Timothy<br>> McVeigh was "mad as hell about the status quo." In a showdown between<br>> the fellow travelers of Timothy McVeigh and the democratically-elected<br>> government, I will be on the side of the democratically-elected<br>> government.<br>><br>> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 9:49 PM, E.Wayne Johnson <<a ymailto="mailto:ewj@pigs.ag" href="/mc/compose?to=ewj@pigs.ag">ewj@pigs.ag</a>> wrote:<br>>> I like the way that Matt Taibbi points out many ills in the society<br>>> generally without compromise.<br>>><br>>> Matt Taibbi rightly points out the
hypocrisy, and I am not a big fan<br>>> of Rand Paul (he ain't Ron), it is a pretty cheap shot saying that an eye<br>>> doctor<br>>> has a blind spot in his ideology because he treats patients who are<br>>> funded by government programs.<br>>><br>>> The Tea Party is a highly diverse group of people who are mad as hell<br>>> about<br>>> the status quo.<br>>><br>>> We all ought to be Tea Partiers on that account.<br>>><br>>> The Powers That Be in both parties hate and fear the Tea Party. .<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Naiman" <<a ymailto="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com" href="/mc/compose?to=naiman.uiuc@gmail.com">naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</a>><br>>> To: "Peace-discuss List" <<a ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"
href="/mc/compose?to=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>><br>>> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 10:43 PM<br>>> Subject: [Peace-discuss] Matt Taibbi: Tea Party Parasites<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> <a href="http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/matt-taibbi/blogs/TaibbiData_May2010/218982/83512" target="_blank">http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/matt-taibbi/blogs/TaibbiData_May2010/218982/83512</a><br>>><br>>> October 12, 2010 4:16 P.M. EDT | By Matt Taibbi<br>>><br>>> More Tea Party Hilarity<br>>><br>>> Quelle surprise! So it turns out that one after another of the Tea<br>>> Party candidates is in one way or another mooching off the government.<br>>> The latest series of hilarious disclosures center around Alaska’s<br>>> GI-Joe-bearded windbag Senatorial candidate, Joe Miller, who appears<br>>> to have run virtually the
entire gamut of government aid en route to<br>>> becoming a staunch, fist-shaking opponent of the welfare state.<br>>><br>>> Miller’s pomposity and piety with regard to government aid programs<br>>> has all along been in line with the usual screechingly hysterical<br>>> self-righteousness Tea Party candidates bring to such matters, railing<br>>> against Obamacare and other “entitlement” programs and promising to<br>>> end the “welfare state.” That makes it all the more delicious now that<br>>> he and his family have been exposed for taking state medical aid,<br>>> unemployment insurance, farm subsidies, hell, even for using state<br>>> equipment to run a private political campaign.<br>>><br>>> Back in June, Miller was saying this about his Republican primary<br>>> opponent Lisa Murkowski, blasting her for supporting a state health<br>>> care
program:<br>>><br>>> As you are aware, just last week the Anchorage Daily News reported<br>>> that the Denali KidCare Program funded 662 abortions last year.<br>>> Senator Murkowski has been a champion of this program, voting against<br>>> the majority of her Republican colleagues for CHIPRA (HR 2) in January<br>>> of 2009.<br>>><br>>> Of course it now turns out that back in the Nineties, Miller himself<br>>> and his three children (with one on the way; he now has eight) were at<br>>> one point receiving assistance via a program almost exactly like the<br>>> Denali KidCare program, which is only for low-income earners. Various<br>>> reports note that Miller received this assistance after he’d bought a<br>>> house and been hired by a prestigious law firm; he also got low-income<br>>> hunting and fishing licenses during that time. It’s also come out that<br>>> he
received some $7,000 in farm subsidies and that his wife received<br>>> unemployment insurance benefits.<br>>><br>>> So now of course Miller, who said he and his family “absolutely” used<br>>> Alaska’s state medical program, is backtracking and saying that he’s<br>>> not against the modern Denali Kidcare program, only against the<br>>> “expansion” of it. But even more telling was his longer answer about<br>>> the program, as reported in the Anchorage Daily News:<br>>><br>>> Miller said what he's advocating is complete state control of the<br>>> programs. "That doesn't mean we cut off the programs. That is<br>>> ultimately a state decision. And I think there is a use; in fact the<br>>> most effective use is probably those programs that help transition the<br>>> populations from more of a situation of dependency" to one where they<br>>> can be economically
independent, Miller said.<br>>><br>>> You see, when a nice white lawyer with a GI Joe beard uses state aid<br>>> to help him through tough times and get over the hump – so that he can<br>>> go from having three little future Medicare-collecting Republican<br>>> children to eight little future Medicare-collecting Republican<br>>> children – that’s a good solid use of government aid, because what<br>>> we’re doing is helping someone “transition” from dependency to<br>>> economic independence.<br>>><br>>> This of course is different from the way other, less GI-Joe-looking<br>>> people use government aid, i.e. as a permanent crutch that helps<br>>> genetically lazy and ambitionless parasites mooch off of rich white<br>>> taxpayers instead of getting real jobs.<br>>><br>>> I can’t even tell you how many people I interviewed at Tea Party<br>>> events
who came up with one version or another of the Joe Miller<br>>> defense. Yes, I’m on Medicare, but… I needed it! It’s those other<br>>> people who don’t need it who are the problem!<br>>><br>>> Or: Yes, it’s true, I retired from the police/military/DPW at 54 and<br>>> am on a fat government pension that you and your kids are going to be<br>>> paying for for the next forty years, while I sit in my plywood-paneled<br>>> living room in Florida watching Fox News, gobbling Medicare-funded<br>>> prescription medications, and railing against welfare queens. But I<br>>> worked hard for those bennies! Not like those other people!<br>>><br>>> This whole concept of “good welfare” and “bad welfare” is at the heart<br>>> of the Tea Party ideology, and it’s something that is believed<br>>> implicitly across the line. It’s why so many of their political<br>>>
champions, like Miller, and sniveling Kentucky rich kid Rand Paul (a<br>>> doctor whose patient base is 50% state insured), and Nevada “crazy<br>>> juice” Senate candidate Sharron Angle (who’s covered by husband Ted’s<br>>> Federal Employee Health Plan insurance), are so completely<br>>> unapologetic about taking state aid with one hand and jacking off<br>>> angry pseudo-libertarian mobs with the other.<br>>><br>>> They genuinely don’t see the contradiction, much in the same way that<br>>> some Wall Street people genuinely can’t see the problem with their<br>>> company, say, taking $13 billion in bonuses in the same year that they<br>>> accepted $13 billion in state bailouts. You wave a pitchfork at them<br>>> with little post-its of the relevant figures taped to the ends, and<br>>> ask them to confess – and they can’t, because they literally don’t see<br>>>
your point.<br>>><br>>> After all, these bankers will protest, we needed to pay out those<br>>> billions in bonuses to stay competitive! It’s not like we’re just<br>>> taking the money willy-nilly, like those dreadful people in ratty army<br>>> coats who shop with food stamps in the bodega downstairs!<br>>><br>>> The rationalization continues: If I can’t help my department heads buy<br>>> Porsches, they say, the whole system collapses, and the system is<br>>> what’s important. It’s not like simply handing out money to people who<br>>> can’t pay their mortgages, which of course is real waste. As Berkshire<br>>> Hathaway investment titan Charles Munger put it, it’s those people who<br>>> have to “suck it in and cope.” But bailouts for companies like the<br>>> ones Munger invests in, like Wells Fargo and Goldman, that’s<br>>> preserving the system –
and we should all “thank God” for that kind of<br>>> state aid.<br>>><br>>> The reason these arguments are inherently ridiculous is that if you<br>>> live in America, you have a pretty good chance of being in some way or<br>>> another dependent upon government aid. Whether it’s aerospace or<br>>> military contracting or farm subsidies or grants in academia, medicine<br>>> or the arts… most of us are in some way living off of this spending,<br>>> directly or indirectly. Defense spending in particular has been a<br>>> primary engine of American capitalism for more than half a century<br>>> now. And government subsidies of agriculture and financial services<br>>> have begun to rival defense largesse.<br>>><br>>> All of which would normally make it unfair for any journalist to go<br>>> after a politician for taking government aid. After all, pretty much<br>>>
everybody has in some way or another lived off the government in his<br>>> life – whether by working in a firm that takes government contracts,<br>>> or attending a state school, or getting into a college thanks to<br>>> affirmative action programs, or serving in the military or law<br>>> enforcement, or collecting Medicare or food stamps or unemployment.<br>>><br>>> But these Tea Partyers make themselves fair game with their<br>>> preposterous absolutist stance on government. If you call Obamacare<br>>> radical socialism and unemployment insurance a parasitic welfare state<br>>> program—well, guess what, asshole, you’re going to get rung up when we<br>>> find out you had your whole family living off state medical aid and<br>>> farm subsidies.<br>>><br>>> Even beyond that, though, is the way that Tea Party candidates and<br>>> activists demonize the consumers of
“entitlement” programs, branding<br>>> them as lazy parasites who are taking from hard-working folk by<br>>> supporting “redistributionist” politicians. You probably heard about<br>>> the story of David Jungerman, the Kansas farmer who created a<br>>> billboard that read as follows:<br>>><br>>> ARE YOU A PRODUCER OR A PARASITE?<br>>><br>>> DEMOCRATS – THE PARTY OF PARASITES<br>>><br>>> Of course it now turns out that Jungerman himself took over a million<br>>> dollars in farm subsidies since 1995. When asked about the apparently<br>>> contradiction, Jungerman offered the Miller defense:<br>>><br>>> “That’s just my money coming back to me,” Jungerman, 72, said Monday.<br>>> “I pay a lot in taxes. I’m not a parasite.”<br>>><br>>> In Tea Party legend the “parasites” would I suppose be people who<br>>> don’t pay
taxes, or pay few taxes, and receive government support in<br>>> excess of what they pay. Maybe they mean the 39-odd million Americans<br>>> (about 1 in 8) who are now receiving food stamps. In the Hobbesian<br>>> jungle the Tea Partyers would prefer we all live in, it’s true, most<br>>> of those 39 million people (including the just under 50% of all<br>>> children, and 90% of black children, who will at some point in their<br>>> lives eat a meal bought with food stamps) would indeed be sucking wind<br>>> instead of eating cheese.<br>>><br>>> These are the parasites they’re probably talking about. You know,<br>>> children. Meanwhile, a slick grownup yuppie politician with a GI Joe<br>>> beard and a breeder wife and eight kids, leeching off the state at<br>>> every turn and gunning for a U.S. Senate salary and pension on an<br>>> anti-welfare platform, he’s just a
hardworking citizen who simply<br>>> needed a lift during a “transitional” period. Man, did they break the<br>>> mold when they made these assholes.<br>>><br>>> --<br>>> Robert Naiman<br>>> Policy Director<br>>> Just Foreign Policy<br>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org<br>>> <a ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" href="/mc/compose?to=naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>>><br>>> Urge Congress to Support a Timetable for Military Withdrawal from<br>>> Afghanistan<br>>> <a href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern" target="_blank">http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern</a><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Peace-discuss mailing list<br>>> <a ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"
href="/mc/compose?to=Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>>> <a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br>>><br>>><br>><br>><br>><br>> --<br>> Robert Naiman<br>> Policy Director<br>> Just Foreign Policy<br>> www.justforeignpolicy.org<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" href="/mc/compose?to=naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>><br>> Urge Congress to Support a Timetable for Military Withdrawal from<br>> Afghanistan<br>> <a href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern" target="_blank">http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern</a><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Peace-discuss mailing list<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"
href="/mc/compose?to=Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br>><br>><br><br><br><br>-- <br>Robert Naiman<br>Policy Director<br>Just Foreign Policy<br>www.justforeignpolicy.org<br><a ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" href="/mc/compose?to=naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br><br>Urge Congress to Support a Timetable for Military Withdrawal from Afghanistan<br><a href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern" target="_blank">http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>Peace-discuss mailing list<br><a ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" href="/mc/compose?to=Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br><a
href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br></div></blockquote></div></div></td></tr></table><br>