<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><DIV>Well, that strikes me as quite a stretch to lay responsibility for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars on the back of Jimmy Carter. I could take your logic just a small step further and put it on FDR. Or William McKinley. Or James K. Polk. Plus it ignores the question of why three subsequent Republican presidents failed to end it, as your premise indicates they should have done. It is a sad fact that since the disastrous and misguided McGovern campaign (God bless him), Democrats have been so bullied and intimidated by charges of being anti-military (not that there's anything wrong with that) that they too often feel compelled to prove they have gonads. I thought Clinton kept Saddam around just to have somebody to bomb when he needed to look
tough. That's murderous and deplorable and certainly won't get him into heaven, but that's the political landscape we find ourselves in. Deal with it. Anyway, wealth and power breed arrogance. Americans, like the British, Spanish, Romans, and every great empire before us, think we should have our way just because God obviously loves us so. (If He didn't, we wouldn't be an empire.) That's human nature, and liberals are just as susceptible to it as conservatives. More often than not, Democratic militarism just takes the form of seeing to it that veterans actually receive the benefits they've been promised, for which they get no credit whatsoever. And "spineless" is not the same as "evil" in my eyes. The "spineless" need to be encouraged. The "evil" need to be stopped. Who can blame the Democrats for being spineless? Who's got their backs? The left?</DIV>
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<DIV>I'm a Bernie Sanders kind of guy. I don't really consider myself a Democrat, but I caucus with them because I think the alternative is so much worse. But if you <EM>really</EM> can't see <EM>any</EM> difference between, say, Karl Rove and Dennis Kucinich, I'm not going to waste any more time arguing with you. You're not serious.<BR></DIV>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> C. G. Estabrook <galliher@illinois.edu><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Gregg Gordon <ggregg79@yahoo.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13@yahoo.com>; Peace List <peace@lists.chambana.net>; Peace-discuss <peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wed, October 20, 2010 11:09:24 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fw: Money Can't Vote<BR></FONT><BR>First, Iraq and Afghanistan are both part of what the Pentagon calls "The Long War" (for oil) in the Mideast. So far, the US has killed a million people in Iraq under Clinton (whose Secretary of State said that the tens of thousands of dead children were "worth it"); a million under Bush; and apparently hundreds of thousands in AfPak under Bush and his third
(Obama) term.<BR><BR>That falls short of the perhaps 4 million we killed in SE Asia, but of course Obama's escalated murders in SW Asia are in no way justified by being fewer in number than Kennedy-Johnson-Nixon's in Vietnam. <BR><BR>It's difficult to determine when the Long War begins, but it takes a tick up in the Carter administration when Carter (and Obama's) adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski sends Osama bin Laden and friends into Afghanistan (before the Russian invasion) "to give the Russians a Vietnam of their own," as he said at the time, in the most expensive CIA operation to date.<BR><BR>If a Republican administration after 2012 brings Obama's AfPak war to an end, then we'll have a third example of a Democratic war concluded by Republicans in as many generations. But that may not be likely. The news suggests that the Obama administration is looking to expand the war with an attack on Pakistan and/or Iran. It certainly isn't looking to abandon
the world's greatest energy-producing region.<BR><BR>Control of Mideast energy resources has been a cornerstone of US foreign policy since 1945. Obama is simply lying when he says the war is to "stop terrorism" - it obviously increases terrorism - but he has to lie, because the only Constitutional authority he has to wage war in the Mideast is Congress' "Authorization for the Use of Military Force" of September 2001 - which is directed against terrorism. <BR><BR>Something positive to do: years ago, there was a great debate in America, "How do we get out of Vietnam?" The best answer was given by Herb Caen: "Ships and planes." Load up the troops and bring them home. The Russians did - and survived and prospered from the end of their war.<BR><BR>Eventually we did, but it took two presidents' being driven from office and (even more important) a revolt of the American conscript army to do it. <BR><BR>Regards, CGE<BR><BR>On 10/20/10
7:15 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
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<DIV>So I conclude from your statement that you don't consider either Iraq or Afghanistan to be "major" wars. So why are you so worked up about them? I think you're just still mad at Lyndon Johnson.</DIV>
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<DIV>And please, don't accuse me of being some kind of racist who doesn't mind us murdering brown people. That is <EM>so</EM> lame. It's just that not all of us see the world in as simple terms as you seem to. Simple solutions are nice, but they're mainly for the simple-minded.</DIV>
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<DIV>All I'm saying is if you're so gung-ho on stopping the war, why don't you come up with something positive to do (as opposed to sniping from the sidelines) that might help get us closer to that goal? We'll all get behind you.<BR></DIV>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> C. G. Estabrook <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"><galliher@illinois.edu></A><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Gregg Gordon <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com"><ggregg79@yahoo.com></A><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Jenifer Cartwright <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com"><jencart13@yahoo.com></A>; Peace List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net"><peace@lists.chambana.net></A>; Peace-discuss <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"><peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net></A><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wed, October 20, 2010 5:10:40 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fw: Money Can't Vote<BR></FONT><BR>You are aware, are you not, that America's major wars since WWII - called by synecdoche "Korea" and "Vietnam" - were started by Democratic administrations and ended by Republican administrations. Since the current Democratic administration has greatly expanded the killing in AfPak, it's hard to argue that they're going to reverse their policies. Voting for them is an acquiescence to those policies. <BR><BR>To say of Obama and the Democrats, "Let them kill some Asians, because they might do some good someplace else," is at best a counsel of despair, if not an
outright criminal attitude. Particularly when it seems that they're doing precisely the wrong things elsewhere, too - not surprisingly, because they're working for the owners of the banks, the insurance companies, the oil and construction companies, etc. --CGE<BR><BR><BR>On 10/20/10 4:48 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
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<DIV>Maybe because there are other important issues that she <EM>does</EM> agree with him on. The only way you're going to find a candidate you're in 100% agreement with is to run for office. If support for the war is an absolute deal breaker for you, fine. Not everybody sees it that way. But if you think the war will end sooner if more Republicans get elected, I think you're out of your mind.<BR></DIV>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> C. G. Estabrook <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"><galliher@illinois.edu></A><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Jenifer Cartwright <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com"><jencart13@yahoo.com></A><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Peace List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net"><peace@lists.chambana.net></A>; Peace-discuss <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"><peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net></A><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wed, October 20, 2010 4:33:52 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote<BR></FONT><BR>This guy supports the war. I can't see why anyone on an anti-war list would contribute to him.<BR><BR><BR>On 10/20/10 4:28 PM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
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<TD vAlign=top><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Another request for help...</SPAN></FONT>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=3><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px">I love this guy!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=3><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px"> --Jenifer<BR></SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">--- On </SPAN></FONT><B style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Wed, 10/20/10, Rep. Alan Grayson <I><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com"><alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com></A></I></B><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> wrote:</SPAN></FONT>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0.5em; TEXT-ALIGN: center"><B><A href="http://callforgrayson.com/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>CallforGrayson.com</A></B></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0.5em; TEXT-ALIGN: center"><A href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=EiO1kyCw5ZXoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j" target=_blank rel=nofollow><IMG height=156 alt="" width=125></A></P>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><STRONG><A href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2B2LAE05OJuToQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Make 10 calls now!</A></STRONG></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV>
<P>Dear Jenifer,</P>
<P>This election is about the people standing against corporate special interests, which are trying to bury me with lying ads because they know I can’t be bought. But money can’t vote – people can.</P>
<P>This week is the first week of Early Vote, which means people in Central Florida are voting right now. </P>
<P>Getting our supporters to the polls now could make up our winning margin, and that's why we need you calling supporters and asking them to vote.</P>
<P>You can start calling whenever you like, but<B> we really need people to start calling at 4 p.m. Eastern Time</B>.</P>
<P>Can you sign up for a shift <STRONG><A href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=skqQDKWGeY%2FoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j" target=_blank rel=nofollow>today from 4-6 p.m. ET</A>, or <A href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=5nA4hYzIEJnoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j" target=_blank rel=nofollow>this evening 6-8 p.m. ET</A></STRONG>?</P>
<P>We'll give you suggestions on what to say, and a reporting tool so it's easy to let us know how it's going.</P>
<P>Thank you.</P>
<P>Truth,</P>
<P>Alan Grayson</P>
<P>P.S. -- If you don't have time today, please sign up to make calls on another day between now and Election Day, November 2. Every voter you talk to will make a difference.</P>
<P><STRONG><A href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=BcjPfm%2B%2FQSzoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Sign up now.</A></STRONG></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P>Paid for and Authorized by the Committee to Elect Alan Grayson</P></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center"><A href="http://www.salsalabs.com/?email" target=_blank rel=nofollow><IMG alt="empowered by Salsa" border=0></A></DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><IMG height=1 alt="Web Bug from http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/TrackImage?key=29044283" width=1></SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><PRE><FIELDSET class=mimeAttachmentHeader></FIELDSET>
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