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Uh, Laurie? What does one have to be/believe/do to be an actual
socialist? Let me know, and I'll see if I measure up.<br>
<br>
Meanwhile, what I think anyone would recognize as a socialist
position was set out in lapidary fashion by Noam Chomsky in his
famous lecture "Government in the Future," 40 years ago. There he
outlined what was called libertarian socialism in 20th century
Europe and contrasted it with Soviet Communism and American
corporatism. Libertarian socialism - anarchism - is a critique of
Leninism from the Left: Lenin wrote against people who held that
view in <i>"Left-Wing" Communism: An Infantile Disorder </i>(1920).<br>
<br>
It has an honorable history through Rosa Luxembourg, the Council
Communists, the Spanish Anarchists (see Orwell's <i>Homage to
Catalonia</i>), on into the American New Left. It hasn't gone
away; I heard Chomsky's lecture, was happy to sign up then, and have
seen no reason to abandon my youthful faith in the intervening
years. --CGE<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/21/10 3:41 PM, Laurie Solomon wrote:
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<div>Actually, I will give him the benefit of the doubt about
having empirical supporting data to back up his assertion that
"There are more anti-war teapartiers than anti-war Democrats"
ask for the exact number of tea-partiers there actually are as
compared to the exact number of Democrat there actually are and
the exact number and percentage of those total number of
tea-partiers that are anti-war as compared with the same for
total Democrats and anti-war Democrats. If he has the empirical
data (as opposed to opinion or speculation) to support his
statement that "There are more anti-war teapartiers than
anti-war Democrats", he surely will have no trouble supplying me
with the numbers and percentages as well as citing the sources
of that data.</div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri">As for his statement, "</font>As an
(actual) socialist, I deplore that fact", I cannot question the
part where he says he deplores that fact ; but with respect to
the first part of the statement, I would suggest that he is no
more an "actual socialist" philosophically, ideologically, or
practically than he is a race horse, a palm tree, or a rocket
ship except in his own mind and his self-attaching the label to
himself and his beliefs. To be sure, his believes may contain
some elements drawn from the socialist tradition and some of his
actions may have a socialist element to them;<font
face="Calibri"> but that does not make him an "actual
socialist" whatever the hell that means any more than standing
in a garage makes one an automobile.</font><br>
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<div style=""><b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="brussel@illinois.edu"
href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu">Brussel</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 21, 2010 2:38 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="galliher@illinois.edu"
href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu">C. G. Estabrook</a> </div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss
List</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Peace-discuss] DN: NAACP Report Ties
Tea Party to Militia andRacist Groups</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
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Karen,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ask Carl where he gets his data (re. his first line below).
Ask where most of the funding, who are the biggest contributors,
and where most of the PR for the Tea party comes from. And so
what conclusion may one draw?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Don't be surprised if he switches the subject, refuses to
answer, or cannot answer, because he doesn't have reliable
sources. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--mkb</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:18 AM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:</div>
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<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">Come on, Karen. There
are more anti-war teapartiers than anti-war Democrats.<br>
<br>
Obama's co-option of the anti-war movement meant that
there is no parallel among the Democrats to Ron Paul's
movement of principled opposition to the war, nor to that
of libertarians and paleoconservatives around the website
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://Antiwar.com">Antiwar.com</a>
or the journal <i>The American Conservative</i>. <br>
<br>
As an (actual) socialist, I deplore that fact. <br>
<br>
On 10/21/10 9:30 AM, Karen Medina wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTimcYfa1ye2PA0=B1rvtp2Jsk+Zx-rSHUtJ=-gy7@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I did notice that there were very few "constitutionalists" around
before the scare tactic of "they are going to give health care to
undocumented immigrants" became popular.
Very few of the tea-partiers are in the anti-war movement.
All I am saying is that it is easy to count the ones that are consistent.
With the ones that are inconsistent, it is harder to count them, but
it is easy to tell if they have read the constitution.
-karen medina
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