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Why don't you participate in discussions of this nature on Peace
Discuss? <br>
<br>
I know that you at least once upon a time thought that our killing
people in Asia was important enough to be concerned about.<br>
<br>
On 10/21/10 11:38 AM, carol inskeep wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:54544.5685.qm@web113319.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="font: inherit;" valign="top">Discussions of this
nature belong on Peace Discuss. <br>
<br>
--- On <b>Wed, 10/20/10, C. G. Estabrook <i><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"><galliher@illinois.edu></a></i></b>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16,
255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>
From: C. G. Estabrook <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"><galliher@illinois.edu></a><br>
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't
Vote<br>
To: "Gregg Gordon" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com"><ggregg79@yahoo.com></a><br>
Cc: "Peace List" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net"><peace@lists.chambana.net></a>,
"Peace-discuss" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"><peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net></a><br>
Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 11:09 PM<br>
<br>
<div id="yiv1527430980"> First, Iraq and Afghanistan are
both part of what the Pentagon calls "The Long War"
(for oil) in the Mideast. So far, the US has killed a
million people in Iraq under Clinton (whose Secretary
of State said that the tens of thousands of dead
children were "worth it"); a million under Bush; and
apparently hundreds of thousands in AfPak under Bush
and his third (Obama) term.<br>
<br>
That falls short of the perhaps 4 million we killed in
SE Asia, but of course Obama's escalated murders in SW
Asia are in no way justified by being fewer in number
than Kennedy-Johnson-Nixon's in Vietnam. <br>
<br>
It's difficult to determine when the Long War begins,
but it takes a tick up in the Carter administration
when Carter (and Obama's) adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski
sends Osama bin Laden and friends into Afghanistan
(before the Russian invasion) "to give the Russians a
Vietnam of their own," as he said at the time, in the
most expensive CIA operation to date.<br>
<br>
If a Republican administration after 2012 brings
Obama's AfPak war to an end, then we'll have a third
example of a Democratic war concluded by Republicans
in as many generations. But that may not be likely.
The news suggests that the Obama administration is
looking to expand the war with an attack on Pakistan
and/or Iran. It certainly isn't looking to abandon
the world's greatest energy-producing region.<br>
<br>
Control of Mideast energy resources has been a
cornerstone of US foreign policy since 1945. Obama is
simply lying when he says the war is to "stop
terrorism" - it obviously increases terrorism - but he
has to lie, because the only Constitutional authority
he has to wage war in the Mideast is Congress'
"Authorization for the Use of Military Force" of
September 2001 - which is directed against terrorism.
<br>
<br>
Something positive to do: years ago, there was a great
debate in America, "How do we get out of Vietnam?"
The best answer was given by Herb Caen: "Ships and
planes." Load up the troops and bring them home. The
Russians did - and survived and prospered from the end
of their war.<br>
<br>
Eventually we did, but it took two presidents' being
driven from office and (even more important) a revolt
of the American conscript army to do it. <br>
<br>
Regards, CGE<br>
<br>
On 10/20/10 7:15 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<style type="text/css"><!--#yiv1527430980 DIV {margin:0px;}--></style>
<div style="font-family: times new roman,new
york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div>So I conclude from your statement that you
don't consider either Iraq or Afghanistan to be
"major" wars. So why are you so worked up about
them? I think you're just still mad at Lyndon
Johnson.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>And please, don't accuse me of being some
kind of racist who doesn't mind us murdering
brown people. That is <em>so</em> lame. It's
just that not all of us see the world in as
simple terms as you seem to. Simple solutions
are nice, but they're mainly for the
simple-minded.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>All I'm saying is if you're so gung-ho on
stopping the war, why don't you come up with
something positive to do (as opposed to sniping
from the sidelines) that might help get us
closer to that goal? We'll all get behind you.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times
new roman,new york,times,serif;"><br>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times
new roman,new york,times,serif;"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2">
<hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:
bold;">From:</span></b> C. G. Estabrook
<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"
target="_blank"
href="/mc/compose?to=galliher@illinois.edu"><galliher@illinois.edu></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
Gregg Gordon <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com"
target="_blank"
href="/mc/compose?to=ggregg79@yahoo.com"><ggregg79@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b>
Jenifer Cartwright <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com"
target="_blank"
href="/mc/compose?to=jencart13@yahoo.com"><jencart13@yahoo.com></a>;
Peace List <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net"
target="_blank"
href="/mc/compose?to=peace@lists.chambana.net"><peace@lists.chambana.net></a>;
Peace-discuss <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank"
href="/mc/compose?to=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"><peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Wed, October 20, 2010 5:10:40 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fw: Money Can't
Vote<br>
</font><br>
You are aware, are you not, that America's
major wars since WWII - called by synecdoche
"Korea" and "Vietnam" - were started by
Democratic administrations and ended by
Republican administrations. Since the current
Democratic administration has greatly expanded
the killing in AfPak, it's hard to argue that
they're going to reverse their policies.
Voting for them is an acquiescence to those
policies. <br>
<br>
To say of Obama and the Democrats, "Let them
kill some Asians, because they might do some
good someplace else," is at best a counsel of
despair, if not an outright criminal
attitude. Particularly when it seems that
they're doing precisely the wrong things
elsewhere, too - not surprisingly, because
they're working for the owners of the banks,
the insurance companies, the oil and
construction companies, etc. --CGE<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/20/10 4:48 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
times new roman,new york,times,serif;">
<div>Maybe because there are other
important issues that she <em>does</em>
agree with him on. The only way you're
going to find a candidate you're in 100%
agreement with is to run for office. If
support for the war is an absolute deal
breaker for you, fine. Not everybody
sees it that way. But if you think the
war will end sooner if more Republicans
get elected, I think you're out of your
mind.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
times new roman,new york,times,serif;"><br>
<div style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: times new roman,new
york,times,serif;"><font face="Tahoma"
size="2">
<hr size="1"> <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
C. G. Estabrook <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" target="_blank"
href="/mc/compose?to=galliher@illinois.edu"><galliher@illinois.edu></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
Jenifer Cartwright <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
href="/mc/compose?to=jencart13@yahoo.com"><jencart13@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b>
Peace List <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank"
href="/mc/compose?to=peace@lists.chambana.net"><peace@lists.chambana.net></a>;
Peace-discuss <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank"
href="/mc/compose?to=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"><peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Wed, October 20, 2010 4:33:52 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw:
Money Can't Vote<br>
</font><br>
This guy supports the war. I can't see
why anyone on an anti-war list would
contribute to him.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/20/10 4:28 PM, Jenifer
Cartwright wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top"><font
class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span"
size="4"><span
class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span"
style="font-size: 10pt;">Another
request for help...</span></font>
<div><font
class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span"
size="3"><span
class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span"
style="font-size:
13px;">I love this
guy!</span></font></div>
<div><font
class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span"
size="3"><span
class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span"
style="font-size:
13px;"> --Jenifer<br>
</span></font><br>
<font
class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span"
size="4"><span
class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span"
style="font-size:
10pt;">--- On </span></font><b
style="font-size: 10pt;">Wed,
10/20/10, Rep. Alan
Grayson <i><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com" target="_blank"
href="/mc/compose?to=alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com"><alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com></a></i></b><font
class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span" size="4"><span
class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span"
style="font-size:
10pt;"> wrote:</span></font>
<blockquote
style="padding-left:
5px; margin-left: 5px;
border-left: 2px solid
rgb(16, 16, 255);">
<div
id="yiv1527430980yiv620970849">
<div style="border:
1px none; font-size:
10pt; margin: 0pt
auto; width: 600px;">
<div style="padding:
5px; width:
590px;">
<div>
<table
style="margin:
0.5em; width:
150px;"
align="right"
border="1"
cellpadding="1"
cellspacing="1">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="margin:
0px;
font-family:
arial,sans-serif;">
<p
style="margin:
0.5em;
text-align:
center;"><b><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://callforgrayson.com/">CallforGrayson.com</a></b></p>
<p
style="margin:
0.5em;
text-align:
center;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=EiO1kyCw5ZXoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j"><img
moz-do-not-send="true" alt="" height="156" width="125"></a></p>
<p
style="text-align:
center;"><strong><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2B2LAE05OJuToQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j">Make
10 calls now!</a></strong></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<p>Dear Jenifer,</p>
<p>This election
is about the
people standing
against
corporate
special
interests, which
are trying to
bury me with
lying ads
because they
know I can’t be
bought. But
money can’t vote
– people can.</p>
<p>This week is
the first week
of Early Vote,
which means
people in
Central Florida
are voting right
now. </p>
<p>Getting our
supporters to
the polls now
could make up
our winning
margin, and
that's why we
need you calling
supporters and
asking them to
vote.</p>
<p>You can start
calling whenever
you like, but<b>
we really need
people to
start calling
at 4 p.m.
Eastern Time</b>.</p>
<p>Can you sign up
for a shift <strong><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=skqQDKWGeY%2FoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j">today
from 4-6 p.m.
ET</a>, or <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=5nA4hYzIEJnoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j">this
evening 6-8
p.m. ET</a></strong>?</p>
<p>We'll give you
suggestions on
what to say, and
a reporting tool
so it's easy to
let us know how
it's going.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>Truth,</p>
<p>Alan Grayson</p>
<p>P.S. -- If you
don't have time
today, please
sign up to make
calls on another
day between now
and Election
Day, November 2.
Every voter you
talk to will
make a
difference.</p>
<p><strong><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=BcjPfm%2B%2FQSzoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j">Sign
up now.</a></strong></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style="margin: 1em
0pt 1em 1em;
text-align: center;"><span
class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-small;"><br>
</span></p>
<div style="border:
1px solid; padding:
5px; font-size:
10pt; margin: 10px
auto; width: 400px;"
align="center">
<p>Paid for and
Authorized by the
Committee to Elect
Alan Grayson</p>
</div>
<div style="font-size:
10pt; text-align:
center;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
href="http://www.salsalabs.com/?email"><img
moz-do-not-send="true" alt="empowered by Salsa" border="0"></a></div>
<font
class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span"
size="4"><span
class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span"
style="font-size:
10pt;"><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
alt="Web Bug
from
http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/TrackImage?key=29044283"
height="1"
width="1"></span></font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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