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<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>><FONT face="Times New Roman">Make a list of anti-war
Democrats - ones who are willing to vote against funding the current war, for
example - not just those who say "I'm against war." (Everyone is for peace
- on their own terms.)</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><FONT face="Times New Roman">While the point about those
who merely say that they are something are often only so in their own minds and
on their own terms is a valid point to an extent, I might point out that the
same thing can be said for your assertion that you are an (actual)
socialist.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><FONT face="Times New Roman">Having said that, I also
will not that you have just changed the nature and terms of your original
assertion that there are more anti-war tea-partiers than there are anti-war
Democrats to one that restricts the populations of each heading to specific
sub=populations that were never specified before. You have restricted
those that are considered for the purpose of your challenge to not only
members of a formally organized group (e.g., the Democratic Party) but to
elected officials who are members of that political party and not just the
ordinary membership of that political party or those who identify as Democrats
but are not formally members or participants in the formal organization (e.g.,
ordinary voters who identify as Democrats but have not direct affiliation with
the party and its machinery except to contribut money to it and vote in
elections for its candidates). Similarly you have extended your
population of tea-partiers to those who are informally or loosely
associated with the loosely defined tea-party movement , for want of a better
term, as well as those who are formally members of formally organized and
established tea-party organizations. Moreover, you have arbitrarily
assigned several formally organized groups that may have members who are part of
or support the tea-party movement and its members but which themselves do not
claim to be tea-party organizations or that all their members are
tea-partiers. Futhermore, none of the formally associated people
identified as formal members of an established and organized tea-party
organization is an elected official who has actually voted against funding the
current war as opposed to merely saying that they are willing to or would if
elected and placed in a position where they were given the choice. As far
as I know, neither Ron Paul or Tim Johnson claim to be tea-partiers or formally
belong to a organized tea-party political party or established
tea-party organization. They are both Republicans, as far as I know, and
may have organized groups of people who are their followers or they may
associate or affiliate with certain formal journals.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><FONT face="Times New Roman">None of this was specified
in your original assertion but only now are being specified. Somehow, you
have confirmed what Mort said you would do - changed the nature of the assertion
you made</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu">C. G. Estabrook</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 21, 2010 3:18 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=brussel@illinois.edu
href="mailto:brussel@illinois.edu">Brussel</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A
title="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss List</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] DN: NAACP Report Ties Tea Party to
Militia and Racist Groups</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Mort--<BR><BR>Make a list of anti-war Democrats - ones who are
willing to vote against funding the current war, for example - not just those
who say "I'm against war." (Everyone is for peace - on their own
terms.)<BR><BR>Send me your list, and I'll send you a longer one - beginning
with Ron Paul's and Justin Raimondo's people - of those associated with the
teapartiers who are against this war. <BR><BR>I remember, from a math class long
ago, that this was a way to prove the existence of multiple infinities, by a
process of iteration...<BR><BR>Neither group is infinite, but they do differ in
magnitude. <BR><BR>Furthermore, the ones I refer to are organized - into
Paul's R3VOLution, the Libertarian party, the paleoconservatives around several
journals - while there is no organized Democratic party opposition to the
Democratic president and administration.<BR><BR>Those of us with memories of a
generation ago want to believe that there is an anti-war movement on the left
wing of the Democratic party.<BR><BR>Unfortunately, no one's home. It's
been Obama's great contribution to the war effort to make that so. --CGE
<BR><BR><BR>On 10/21/10 2:38 PM, Brussel wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:66CABF1F-FA73-42B4-B68E-0A247FA7D0B0@illinois.edu
type="cite">Karen,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ask Carl where he gets his data (re. his first line below). Ask where
most of the funding, who are the biggest contributors, and where most of the
PR for the Tea party comes from. And so what conclusion may one draw?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Don't be surprised if he switches the subject, refuses to answer, or
cannot answer, because he doesn't have reliable sources. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>--mkb</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:18 AM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">Come on, Karen. There are more
anti-war teapartiers than anti-war Democrats.<BR><BR>Obama's co-option of
the anti-war movement meant that there is no parallel among the Democrats to
Ron Paul's movement of principled opposition to the war, nor to that of
libertarians and paleoconservatives around the website <A
href="http://Antiwar.com" moz-do-not-send="true">Antiwar.com</A> or the
journal <I>The American Conservative</I>. <BR><BR>As an (actual) socialist,
I deplore that fact. <BR><BR>On 10/21/10 9:30 AM, Karen Medina wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE
cite=mid:AANLkTimcYfa1ye2PA0=B1rvtp2Jsk+Zx-rSHUtJ=-gy7@mail.gmail.com
type="cite"><PRE wrap="">I did notice that there were very few "constitutionalists" around
before the scare tactic of "they are going to give health care to
undocumented immigrants" became popular.
Very few of the tea-partiers are in the anti-war movement.
All I am saying is that it is easy to count the ones that are consistent.
With the ones that are inconsistent, it is harder to count them, but
it is easy to tell if they have read the constitution.
-karen medina
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