<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">Discussions of this nature belong on Peace Discuss. <br><br>--- On <b>Wed, 10/20/10, C. G. Estabrook <i><galliher@illinois.edu></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: C. G. Estabrook <galliher@illinois.edu><br>Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote<br>To: "Gregg Gordon" <ggregg79@yahoo.com><br>Cc: "Peace List" <peace@lists.chambana.net>, "Peace-discuss" <peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net><br>Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 11:09 PM<br><br><div id="yiv1527430980">
First, Iraq and Afghanistan are both part of what the Pentagon calls
"The Long War" (for oil) in the Mideast. So far, the US has killed
a million people in Iraq under Clinton (whose Secretary of State
said that the tens of thousands of dead children were "worth it"); a
million under Bush; and apparently hundreds of thousands in AfPak
under Bush and his third (Obama) term.<br>
<br>
That falls short of the perhaps 4 million we killed in SE Asia, but
of course Obama's escalated murders in SW Asia are in no way
justified by being fewer in number than Kennedy-Johnson-Nixon's in
Vietnam. <br>
<br>
It's difficult to determine when the Long War begins, but it takes a
tick up in the Carter administration when Carter (and Obama's)
adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski sends Osama bin Laden and friends into
Afghanistan (before the Russian invasion) "to give the Russians a
Vietnam of their own," as he said at the time, in the most expensive
CIA operation to date.<br>
<br>
If a Republican administration after 2012 brings Obama's AfPak war
to an end, then we'll have a third example of a Democratic war
concluded by Republicans in as many generations. But that may not be
likely. The news suggests that the Obama administration is looking
to expand the war with an attack on Pakistan and/or Iran. It
certainly isn't looking to abandon the world's greatest
energy-producing region.<br>
<br>
Control of Mideast energy resources has been a cornerstone of US
foreign policy since 1945. Obama is simply lying when he says the
war is to "stop terrorism" - it obviously increases terrorism - but
he has to lie, because the only Constitutional authority he has to
wage war in the Mideast is Congress' "Authorization for the Use of
Military Force" of September 2001 - which is directed against
terrorism. <br>
<br>
Something positive to do: years ago, there was a great debate in
America, "How do we get out of Vietnam?" The best answer was given
by Herb Caen: "Ships and planes." Load up the troops and bring them
home. The Russians did - and survived and prospered from the end of
their war.<br>
<br>
Eventually we did, but it took two presidents' being driven from
office and (even more important) a revolt of the American conscript
army to do it. <br>
<br>
Regards, CGE<br>
<br>
On 10/20/10 7:15 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div>So I conclude from your statement that you don't consider
either Iraq or Afghanistan to be "major" wars. So why are you
so worked up about them? I think you're just still mad at
Lyndon Johnson.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>And please, don't accuse me of being some kind of racist
who doesn't mind us murdering brown people. That is <em>so</em>
lame. It's just that not all of us see the world in as simple
terms as you seem to. Simple solutions are nice, but they're
mainly for the simple-minded.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>All I'm saying is if you're so gung-ho on stopping the war,
why don't you come up with something positive to do (as
opposed to sniping from the sidelines) that might help get us
closer to that goal? We'll all get behind you.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;"><br>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2">
<hr size="1">
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> C. G.
Estabrook <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=galliher@illinois.edu"><galliher@illinois.edu></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Gregg
Gordon <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=ggregg79@yahoo.com"><ggregg79@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Jenifer
Cartwright <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=jencart13@yahoo.com"><jencart13@yahoo.com></a>; Peace List
<a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=peace@lists.chambana.net"><peace@lists.chambana.net></a>; Peace-discuss
<a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"><peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wed,
October 20, 2010 5:10:40 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fw: Money Can't Vote<br>
</font><br>
You are aware, are you not, that America's major wars since
WWII - called by synecdoche "Korea" and "Vietnam" - were
started by Democratic administrations and ended by
Republican administrations. Since the current Democratic
administration has greatly expanded the killing in AfPak,
it's hard to argue that they're going to reverse their
policies. Voting for them is an acquiescence to those
policies. <br>
<br>
To say of Obama and the Democrats, "Let them kill some
Asians, because they might do some good someplace else," is
at best a counsel of despair, if not an outright criminal
attitude. Particularly when it seems that they're doing
precisely the wrong things elsewhere, too - not
surprisingly, because they're working for the owners of the
banks, the insurance companies, the oil and construction
companies, etc. --CGE<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/20/10 4:48 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">
<div>Maybe because there are other important issues that
she <em>does</em> agree with him on. The only way
you're going to find a candidate you're in 100%
agreement with is to run for office. If support for
the war is an absolute deal breaker for you, fine.
Not everybody sees it that way. But if you think the
war will end sooner if more Republicans get elected, I
think you're out of your mind.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;"><br>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2">
<hr size="1">
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
C. G. Estabrook <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=galliher@illinois.edu"><galliher@illinois.edu></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
Jenifer Cartwright <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=jencart13@yahoo.com"><jencart13@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b>
Peace List <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=peace@lists.chambana.net"><peace@lists.chambana.net></a>;
Peace-discuss <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"><peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Wed, October 20, 2010 4:33:52 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote<br>
</font><br>
This guy supports the war. I can't see why anyone on
an anti-war list would contribute to him.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/20/10 4:28 PM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
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<td valign="top"><font class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt;">Another
request for help...</span></font>
<div><font class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">I love this
guy!</span></font></div>
<div><font class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"> --Jenifer<br>
</span></font><br>
<font class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt;">--- On </span></font><b style="font-size: 10pt;">Wed,
10/20/10, Rep. Alan Grayson <i><a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1527430980moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com"><alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com></a></i></b><font class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt;"> wrote:</span></font>
<blockquote style="padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);">
<div id="yiv1527430980yiv620970849">
<div style="border: 1px none; font-size: 10pt; margin: 0pt auto; width: 600px;">
<div style="padding: 5px; width: 590px;">
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<td style="margin: 0px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<p style="margin: 0.5em; text-align: center;"><b><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://callforgrayson.com/">CallforGrayson.com</a></b></p>
<p style="margin: 0.5em; text-align: center;"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=EiO1kyCw5ZXoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j"><img alt="" width="125" height="156"></a></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><strong><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2B2LAE05OJuToQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j">Make
10 calls now!</a></strong></p>
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</div>
<p>Dear Jenifer,</p>
<p>This election is about the
people standing against
corporate special interests,
which are trying to bury me
with lying ads because they
know I can’t be bought. But
money can’t vote – people can.</p>
<p>This week is the first week
of Early Vote, which means
people in Central Florida are
voting right now. </p>
<p>Getting our supporters to the
polls now could make up our
winning margin, and that's why
we need you calling supporters
and asking them to vote.</p>
<p>You can start calling
whenever you like, but<b> we
really need people to start
calling at 4 p.m. Eastern
Time</b>.</p>
<p>Can you sign up for a shift <strong><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=skqQDKWGeY%2FoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j">today from
4-6 p.m. ET</a>, or <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=5nA4hYzIEJnoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j">this
evening 6-8 p.m. ET</a></strong>?</p>
<p>We'll give you suggestions on
what to say, and a reporting
tool so it's easy to let us
know how it's going.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>Truth,</p>
<p>Alan Grayson</p>
<p>P.S. -- If you don't have
time today, please sign up to
make calls on another day
between now and Election Day,
November 2. Every voter you
talk to will make a
difference.</p>
<p><strong><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=BcjPfm%2B%2FQSzoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j">Sign up
now.</a></strong></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style="margin: 1em 0pt 1em 1em; text-align: center;"><span class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-small;"><br>
</span></p>
<div style="border: 1px solid; padding: 5px; font-size: 10pt; margin: 10px auto; width: 400px;" align="center">
<p>Paid for and Authorized by the
Committee to Elect Alan Grayson</p>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 10pt; text-align: center;"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.salsalabs.com/?email"><img alt="empowered by Salsa" border="0"></a></div>
<font class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="yiv1527430980Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt;"><img alt="Web Bug from
http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/TrackImage?key=29044283" width="1" height="1"></span></font></div>
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