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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>don't spam my ibex.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=bill.strutz@gmail.com href="mailto:bill.strutz@gmail.com">Bill
Strutz</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=galliher@illinois.edu
href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu">C. G. Estabrook</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=carolinskeep@yahoo.com
href="mailto:carolinskeep@yahoo.com">carol inskeep</A> ; <A
title=slevy@ncsa.illinois.edu href="mailto:slevy@ncsa.illinois.edu">Stuart
Levy</A> ; <A title=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 22, 2010 9:25
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] This
list is for brief announcementsonly</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><A
href="http://www.break.com/index/theres-no-point-arguing-with-an-ibex.html">http://www.break.com/index/theres-no-point-arguing-with-an-ibex.html</A><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:19 PM, C. G. Estabrook <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu">galliher@illinois.edu</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>Why? Does your inbox get clogged up? Does your
delete key not work?<BR><BR>'If liberty means anything', George Orwell once
said, 'it means the right to tell people what they do not want to
hear'.<BR><BR>Amen.
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=h5><BR><BR>On 10/21/10 7:03 PM, Stuart Levy wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 06:58:00PM -0500, C. G.
Estabrook wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>Why don't you participate in discussions of this
nature on Peace Discuss?<BR><BR>I know that you at least once upon a
time thought that our killing people<BR>in Asia was important enough to
be concerned about.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>Carl, and all,<BR><BR>Please avoid
discussions, regardless of worthiness, on the Peace list.<BR>It is not for
that, and we should respect the wishes of people<BR>who choose to
subscribe to it and not to peace-discuss.<BR><BR>If someone else writes to
Peace, and you'd like to discuss the issues involved,<BR>please *change*
the destination to Peace-Discuss.<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>On 10/21/10 11:38 AM, carol inskeep wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>Discussions of this nature belong on Peace
Discuss.<BR><BR>--- On *Wed, 10/20/10, C. G. Estabrook /<<A
href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"
target=_blank>galliher@illinois.edu</A>>/* wrote:<BR><BR><BR>
From: C. G. Estabrook<<A href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"
target=_blank>galliher@illinois.edu</A>><BR> Subject:
Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote<BR> To:
"Gregg Gordon"<<A href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com"
target=_blank>ggregg79@yahoo.com</A>><BR> Cc: "Peace
List"<<A href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net"
target=_blank>peace@lists.chambana.net</A>>,
"Peace-discuss"<BR> <<A
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"
target=_blank>peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>><BR>
Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 11:09 PM<BR><BR>
First, Iraq and Afghanistan are both part of what the Pentagon
calls<BR>"The<BR> Long War" (for oil) in the Mideast.
So far, the US has killed a<BR>million<BR> people
in Iraq under Clinton (whose Secretary of State said that
the<BR>tens<BR> of thousands of dead children were "worth
it"); a million under Bush;<BR>and<BR> apparently
hundreds of thousands in AfPak under Bush and his
third<BR>(Obama)<BR> term.<BR><BR> That
falls short of the perhaps 4 million we killed in SE Asia, but
of<BR> course Obama's escalated murders in SW Asia are in
no way justified by<BR> being fewer in number than
Kennedy-Johnson-Nixon's in Vietnam.<BR><BR> It's
difficult to determine when the Long War begins, but it takes
a<BR>tick<BR> up in the Carter administration when Carter
(and Obama's) adviser<BR>Zbigniew<BR> Brzezinski sends
Osama bin Laden and friends into Afghanistan (before<BR>the<BR>
Russian invasion) "to give the Russians a Vietnam of their
own," as he<BR> said at the time, in the most expensive
CIA operation to date.<BR><BR> If a Republican
administration after 2012 brings Obama's AfPak war to<BR>an<BR>
end, then we'll have a third example of a Democratic war
concluded by<BR> Republicans in as many generations. But
that may not be likely. The<BR>news<BR> suggests that the
Obama administration is looking to expand the war<BR>with<BR>
an attack on Pakistan and/or Iran. It certainly isn't
looking to<BR>abandon<BR> the world's greatest
energy-producing region.<BR><BR> Control of Mideast
energy resources has been a cornerstone of US<BR>foreign<BR>
policy since 1945. Obama is simply lying when he says the war
is to<BR>"stop<BR> terrorism" - it obviously increases
terrorism - but he has to lie,<BR>because<BR> the only
Constitutional authority he has to wage war in the Mideast
is<BR> Congress' "Authorization for the Use of Military
Force" of September<BR>2001<BR> - which is directed
against terrorism.<BR><BR> Something positive to do:
years ago, there was a great debate in<BR>America,<BR>
"How do we get out of Vietnam?" The best answer was given by
Herb<BR>Caen:<BR> "Ships and planes." Load up the troops
and bring them home. The<BR>Russians<BR> did - and
survived and prospered from the end of their war.<BR><BR>
Eventually we did, but it took two presidents' being driven
from<BR>office<BR> and (even more important) a revolt of
the American conscript army to<BR>do it.<BR><BR>
Regards, CGE<BR><BR> On 10/20/10 7:15 PM, Gregg Gordon
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote> So I conclude from your statement
that you don't consider either Iraq<BR>or<BR>
Afghanistan to be "major" wars. So why are you so worked up
about<BR>them? I think you're just still mad at Lyndon
Johnson.<BR> And please, don't accuse me of being some
kind of racist who doesn't<BR>mind<BR> us murdering
brown people. That is /so/ lame. It's just that
not<BR>all of<BR> us see the world in as simple terms
as you seem to. Simple solutions<BR>are<BR> nice,
but they're mainly for the simple-minded.<BR> All I'm
saying is if you're so gung-ho on stopping the war, why
don't<BR>you<BR> come up with something positive to do
(as opposed to sniping from the<BR> sidelines) that
might help get us closer to that goal? We'll all get<BR>
behind
you.<BR><BR><BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
*From:* C. G. Estabrook<<A
href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"
target=_blank>galliher@illinois.edu</A>><BR>
</mc/compose?to=<A href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"
target=_blank>galliher@illinois.edu</A>><BR> *To:*
Gregg Gordon<<A href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com"
target=_blank>ggregg79@yahoo.com</A>><BR></mc/compose?to=<A
href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com"
target=_blank>ggregg79@yahoo.com</A>><BR> *Cc:*
Jenifer Cartwright<<A href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com"
target=_blank>jencart13@yahoo.com</A>><BR>
</mc/compose?to=<A href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com"
target=_blank>jencart13@yahoo.com</A>>; Peace List<BR>
<<A href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net"
target=_blank>peace@lists.chambana.net</A>>
</mc/compose?to=<A href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net"
target=_blank>peace@lists.chambana.net</A>>;<BR>
Peace-discuss<<A href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"
target=_blank>peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>><BR>
</mc/compose?to=<A
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"
target=_blank>peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>><BR>
*Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 5:10:40 PM<BR>
*Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fw: Money Can't
Vote<BR><BR> You are aware, are you not, that America's
major wars since WWII -<BR>called<BR> by synecdoche
"Korea" and "Vietnam" - were started by Democratic<BR>
administrations and ended by Republican administrations. Since
the<BR> current Democratic administration has greatly
expanded the killing in<BR> AfPak, it's hard to argue
that they're going to reverse their<BR>policies.<BR>
Voting for them is an acquiescence to those policies.<BR><BR>
To say of Obama and the Democrats, "Let them kill some
Asians,<BR>because<BR> they might do some good
someplace else," is at best a counsel of<BR>despair,<BR>
if not an outright criminal attitude.
Particularly when it seems<BR>that<BR> they're
doing precisely the wrong things elsewhere, too - not<BR>
surprisingly, because they're working for the owners of the
banks,<BR>the<BR> insurance companies, the oil and
construction companies, etc. --CGE<BR><BR><BR> On
10/20/10 4:48 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote> Maybe because there are other
important issues that she /does/ agree<BR> with him
on. The only way you're going to find a candidate
you're<BR>in<BR> 100% agreement with is to run for
office. If support for the war is<BR>an<BR>
absolute deal breaker for you, fine. Not everybody sees it
that<BR>way. But if you think the war will end
sooner if more Republicans<BR>get<BR> elected, I
think you're out of your
mind.<BR><BR><BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
*From:* C. G. Estabrook<<A
href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"
target=_blank>galliher@illinois.edu</A>><BR>
</mc/compose?to=<A href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"
target=_blank>galliher@illinois.edu</A>><BR> *To:*
Jenifer Cartwright<<A href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com"
target=_blank>jencart13@yahoo.com</A>><BR>
</mc/compose?to=<A href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com"
target=_blank>jencart13@yahoo.com</A>><BR> *Cc:*
Peace List<<A href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net"
target=_blank>peace@lists.chambana.net</A>><BR>
</mc/compose?to=<A href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net"
target=_blank>peace@lists.chambana.net</A>>;
Peace-discuss<BR> <<A
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"
target=_blank>peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>><BR>
</mc/compose?to=<A
href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net"
target=_blank>peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</A>><BR>
*Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 4:33:52 PM<BR>
*Subject:* Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't
Vote<BR><BR> This guy supports the war. I can't see
why anyone on an anti-war<BR>list<BR> would
contribute to him.<BR><BR><BR> On 10/20/10 4:28 PM,
Jenifer Cartwright wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote> Another request for
help...<BR> I love this guy!<BR>
--Jenifer<BR><BR> --- On *Wed, 10/20/10, Rep.
Alan Grayson<BR> /<<A
href="mailto:alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com"
target=_blank>alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com</A>><BR>
</mc/compose?to=<A
href="mailto:alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com"
target=_blank>alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com</A>>/*wrote:<BR><BR>
*CallforGrayson.com<<A
href="http://callforgrayson.com/"
target=_blank>http://callforgrayson.com/</A>>*<BR><BR><BR><<A
href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=EiO1kyCw5ZXoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j"
target=_blank>http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=EiO1kyCw5ZXoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j</A>><BR><BR>
*Make 10 calls now!<BR><BR><<A
href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2B2LAE05OJuToQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j"
target=_blank>http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2B2LAE05OJuToQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j</A>>*<BR><BR>
Dear Jenifer,<BR><BR>
This election is about the people standing against
corporate<BR> special interests,
which are trying to bury me with lying ads<BR>
because they know I can’t be bought. But money
can’t vote<BR>– people can.<BR><BR>
This week is the first week of Early Vote, which means
people<BR>in<BR> Central Florida are
voting right now.<BR><BR> Getting our
supporters to the polls now could make up
our<BR>winning<BR> margin, and that's
why we need you calling supporters and<BR>asking<BR>
them to vote.<BR><BR>
You can start calling whenever you like, but*we really
need<BR>people<BR> to start calling
at 4 p.m. Eastern Time*.<BR><BR> Can
you sign up for a shift *today from 4-6 p.m. ET<BR><BR><<A
href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=skqQDKWGeY%2FoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j"
target=_blank>http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=skqQDKWGeY%2FoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j</A>>,<BR>
or this evening 6-8 p.m. ET<BR><BR><<A
href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=5nA4hYzIEJnoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j"
target=_blank>http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=5nA4hYzIEJnoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j</A>>*?<BR><BR>
We'll give you suggestions on what to say,
and a reporting tool<BR>so<BR> it's
easy to let us know how it's going.<BR><BR>
Thank you.<BR><BR>
Truth,<BR><BR> Alan
Grayson<BR><BR> P.S. -- If you don't
have time today, please sign up to make<BR>calls<BR>
on another day between now and Election
Day, November 2. Every<BR> voter you
talk to will make a difference.<BR><BR>
*Sign up now.<BR><BR><<A
href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=BcjPfm%2B%2FQSzoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j"
target=_blank>http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=BcjPfm%2B%2FQSzoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j</A>>*<BR><BR><BR>
Paid for and Authorized by the Committee to
Elect Alan Grayson<BR><BR> empowered
by Salsa<<A href="http://www.salsalabs.com/?email"
target=_blank>http://www.salsalabs.com/?email</A>><BR>
Web Bug from<BR><A
href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/TrackImage?key=29044283"
target=_blank>http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/TrackImage?key=29044283</A><BR><BR><BR><BR>
_______________________________________________<BR>
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clear=all><BR>--
<BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>"The
Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found
difficult and not tried." -- GK Chesterton<BR><BR>
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