If you want to have a discussion please take it elsewhere or at least please stop hitting reply all. It is not that we do not want to hear <i>what</i> you have to say but rather that your negativity is not something most peaceful people appreciate. Thank you.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:19 PM, C. G. Estabrook <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu">galliher@illinois.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Why? Does your inbox get clogged up? Does your delete key not work?<br>
<br>
'If liberty means anything', George Orwell once said, 'it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear'.<br>
<br>
Amen.<br>
<br>
On 10/21/10 7:03 PM, Stuart Levy wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 06:58:00PM -0500, C. G. Estabrook wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Why don't you participate in discussions of this nature on Peace Discuss?<br>
<br>
I know that you at least once upon a time thought that our killing people<br>
in Asia was important enough to be concerned about.<br>
</blockquote>
Carl, and all,<br>
<br>
Please avoid discussions, regardless of worthiness, on the Peace list.<br>
It is not for that, and we should respect the wishes of people<br>
who choose to subscribe to it and not to peace-discuss.<br>
<br>
If someone else writes to Peace, and you'd like to discuss the issues involved,<br>
please *change* the destination to Peace-Discuss.<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 10/21/10 11:38 AM, carol inskeep wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Discussions of this nature belong on Peace Discuss.<br>
<br>
--- On *Wed, 10/20/10, C. G. Estabrook /<<a href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" target="_blank">galliher@illinois.edu</a>>/* wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
From: C. G. Estabrook<<a href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" target="_blank">galliher@illinois.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote<br>
To: "Gregg Gordon"<<a href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com" target="_blank">ggregg79@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Cc: "Peace List"<<a href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">peace@lists.chambana.net</a>>, "Peace-discuss"<br>
<<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>><br>
Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 11:09 PM<br>
<br>
First, Iraq and Afghanistan are both part of what the Pentagon calls<br>
"The<br>
Long War" (for oil) in the Mideast. So far, the US has killed a<br>
million<br>
people in Iraq under Clinton (whose Secretary of State said that the<br>
tens<br>
of thousands of dead children were "worth it"); a million under Bush;<br>
and<br>
apparently hundreds of thousands in AfPak under Bush and his third<br>
(Obama)<br>
term.<br>
<br>
That falls short of the perhaps 4 million we killed in SE Asia, but of<br>
course Obama's escalated murders in SW Asia are in no way justified by<br>
being fewer in number than Kennedy-Johnson-Nixon's in Vietnam.<br>
<br>
It's difficult to determine when the Long War begins, but it takes a<br>
tick<br>
up in the Carter administration when Carter (and Obama's) adviser<br>
Zbigniew<br>
Brzezinski sends Osama bin Laden and friends into Afghanistan (before<br>
the<br>
Russian invasion) "to give the Russians a Vietnam of their own," as he<br>
said at the time, in the most expensive CIA operation to date.<br>
<br>
If a Republican administration after 2012 brings Obama's AfPak war to<br>
an<br>
end, then we'll have a third example of a Democratic war concluded by<br>
Republicans in as many generations. But that may not be likely. The<br>
news<br>
suggests that the Obama administration is looking to expand the war<br>
with<br>
an attack on Pakistan and/or Iran. It certainly isn't looking to<br>
abandon<br>
the world's greatest energy-producing region.<br>
<br>
Control of Mideast energy resources has been a cornerstone of US<br>
foreign<br>
policy since 1945. Obama is simply lying when he says the war is to<br>
"stop<br>
terrorism" - it obviously increases terrorism - but he has to lie,<br>
because<br>
the only Constitutional authority he has to wage war in the Mideast is<br>
Congress' "Authorization for the Use of Military Force" of September<br>
2001<br>
- which is directed against terrorism.<br>
<br>
Something positive to do: years ago, there was a great debate in<br>
America,<br>
"How do we get out of Vietnam?" The best answer was given by Herb<br>
Caen:<br>
"Ships and planes." Load up the troops and bring them home. The<br>
Russians<br>
did - and survived and prospered from the end of their war.<br>
<br>
Eventually we did, but it took two presidents' being driven from<br>
office<br>
and (even more important) a revolt of the American conscript army to<br>
do it.<br>
<br>
Regards, CGE<br>
<br>
On 10/20/10 7:15 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
So I conclude from your statement that you don't consider either Iraq<br>
or<br>
Afghanistan to be "major" wars. So why are you so worked up about<br>
them? I think you're just still mad at Lyndon Johnson.<br>
And please, don't accuse me of being some kind of racist who doesn't<br>
mind<br>
us murdering brown people. That is /so/ lame. It's just that not<br>
all of<br>
us see the world in as simple terms as you seem to. Simple solutions<br>
are<br>
nice, but they're mainly for the simple-minded.<br>
All I'm saying is if you're so gung-ho on stopping the war, why don't<br>
you<br>
come up with something positive to do (as opposed to sniping from the<br>
sidelines) that might help get us closer to that goal? We'll all get<br>
behind you.<br>
<br>
<br>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
*From:* C. G. Estabrook<<a href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" target="_blank">galliher@illinois.edu</a>><br>
</mc/compose?to=<a href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" target="_blank">galliher@illinois.edu</a>><br>
*To:* Gregg Gordon<<a href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com" target="_blank">ggregg79@yahoo.com</a>><br>
</mc/compose?to=<a href="mailto:ggregg79@yahoo.com" target="_blank">ggregg79@yahoo.com</a>><br>
*Cc:* Jenifer Cartwright<<a href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jencart13@yahoo.com</a>><br>
</mc/compose?to=<a href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jencart13@yahoo.com</a>>; Peace List<br>
<<a href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">peace@lists.chambana.net</a>> </mc/compose?to=<a href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">peace@lists.chambana.net</a>>;<br>
Peace-discuss<<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>><br>
</mc/compose?to=<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>><br>
*Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 5:10:40 PM<br>
*Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fw: Money Can't Vote<br>
<br>
You are aware, are you not, that America's major wars since WWII -<br>
called<br>
by synecdoche "Korea" and "Vietnam" - were started by Democratic<br>
administrations and ended by Republican administrations. Since the<br>
current Democratic administration has greatly expanded the killing in<br>
AfPak, it's hard to argue that they're going to reverse their<br>
policies.<br>
Voting for them is an acquiescence to those policies.<br>
<br>
To say of Obama and the Democrats, "Let them kill some Asians,<br>
because<br>
they might do some good someplace else," is at best a counsel of<br>
despair,<br>
if not an outright criminal attitude. Particularly when it seems<br>
that<br>
they're doing precisely the wrong things elsewhere, too - not<br>
surprisingly, because they're working for the owners of the banks,<br>
the<br>
insurance companies, the oil and construction companies, etc. --CGE<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/20/10 4:48 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Maybe because there are other important issues that she /does/ agree<br>
with him on. The only way you're going to find a candidate you're<br>
in<br>
100% agreement with is to run for office. If support for the war is<br>
an<br>
absolute deal breaker for you, fine. Not everybody sees it that<br>
way. But if you think the war will end sooner if more Republicans<br>
get<br>
elected, I think you're out of your mind.<br>
<br>
<br>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
*From:* C. G. Estabrook<<a href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" target="_blank">galliher@illinois.edu</a>><br>
</mc/compose?to=<a href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" target="_blank">galliher@illinois.edu</a>><br>
*To:* Jenifer Cartwright<<a href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jencart13@yahoo.com</a>><br>
</mc/compose?to=<a href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jencart13@yahoo.com</a>><br>
*Cc:* Peace List<<a href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">peace@lists.chambana.net</a>><br>
</mc/compose?to=<a href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">peace@lists.chambana.net</a>>; Peace-discuss<br>
<<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>><br>
</mc/compose?to=<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>><br>
*Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 4:33:52 PM<br>
*Subject:* Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote<br>
<br>
This guy supports the war. I can't see why anyone on an anti-war<br>
list<br>
would contribute to him.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/20/10 4:28 PM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Another request for help...<br>
I love this guy!<br>
--Jenifer<br>
<br>
--- On *Wed, 10/20/10, Rep. Alan Grayson<br>
/<<a href="mailto:alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com" target="_blank">alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com</a>><br>
</mc/compose?to=<a href="mailto:alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com" target="_blank">alangrayson@graysonforcongress.com</a>>/*wrote:<br>
<br>
*CallforGrayson.com<<a href="http://callforgrayson.com/" target="_blank">http://callforgrayson.com/</a>>*<br>
<br>
<br>
<<a href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=EiO1kyCw5ZXoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j" target="_blank">http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=EiO1kyCw5ZXoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j</a>><br>
<br>
*Make 10 calls now!<br>
<br>
<<a href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2B2LAE05OJuToQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j" target="_blank">http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2B2LAE05OJuToQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j</a>>*<br>
<br>
Dear Jenifer,<br>
<br>
This election is about the people standing against corporate<br>
special interests, which are trying to bury me with lying ads<br>
because they know I can’t be bought. But money can’t vote<br>
– people can.<br>
<br>
This week is the first week of Early Vote, which means people<br>
in<br>
Central Florida are voting right now.<br>
<br>
Getting our supporters to the polls now could make up our<br>
winning<br>
margin, and that's why we need you calling supporters and<br>
asking<br>
them to vote.<br>
<br>
You can start calling whenever you like, but*we really need<br>
people<br>
to start calling at 4 p.m. Eastern Time*.<br>
<br>
Can you sign up for a shift *today from 4-6 p.m. ET<br>
<br>
<<a href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=skqQDKWGeY%2FoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j" target="_blank">http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=skqQDKWGeY%2FoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j</a>>,<br>
or this evening 6-8 p.m. ET<br>
<br>
<<a href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=5nA4hYzIEJnoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j" target="_blank">http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=5nA4hYzIEJnoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j</a>>*?<br>
<br>
We'll give you suggestions on what to say, and a reporting tool<br>
so<br>
it's easy to let us know how it's going.<br>
<br>
Thank you.<br>
<br>
Truth,<br>
<br>
Alan Grayson<br>
<br>
P.S. -- If you don't have time today, please sign up to make<br>
calls<br>
on another day between now and Election Day, November 2. Every<br>
voter you talk to will make a difference.<br>
<br>
*Sign up now.<br>
<br>
<<a href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=BcjPfm%2B%2FQSzoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j" target="_blank">http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=BcjPfm%2B%2FQSzoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j</a>>*<br>
<br>
<br>
Paid for and Authorized by the Committee to Elect Alan Grayson<br>
<br>
empowered by Salsa<<a href="http://www.salsalabs.com/?email" target="_blank">http://www.salsalabs.com/?email</a>><br>
Web Bug from<br>
<a href="http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/TrackImage?key=29044283" target="_blank">http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/TrackImage?key=29044283</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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