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Self-styled "progressives" screaming for censorship - to protect
their "community" from incorrect thoughts!<br>
<br>
Since Brian's favored form of argument seems to be an expletive, I
suppose I shouldn't be surprised.<br>
<br>
On 10/27/10 1:05 PM, Brian Dolinar wrote:<br>
<span style="white-space: pre;">> Seriously, are you folks going
to allow this fool to bully his way<br>
> into everybody's mailboxes. He's already destroyed the AWARE
group,<br>
> now are you going to allow him to cause a mass exodus from
the peace<br>
> list, a valuable resource to the progressive community?<br>
> <br>
> BD<br>
> <br>
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 12:56 PM, C. G. Estabrook<br>
> <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu">galliher@illinois.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu"><mailto:galliher@illinois.edu></a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Mort--<br>
> <br>
> Naturally I appreciate your tender concern for my absence
from AOTA's<br>
> interview with David Gill. In fact at the time I was
literally up in<br>
> the air, flying Missoula-Denver-Dallas-CU and arriving home
just in<br>
> time to see the program. In fact, I would love to have asked
Gill<br>
> some questions about the war - and to quote back to him his
evasions<br>
> from the past.<br>
> <br>
> Linda got Gill to agree to be on the show - and asked me not
to be<br>
> "confrontational." But Gill said he couldn't make the regular<br>
> recording time. So I asked the accommodating people at UPTV
to<br>
> provide us with other possible times: Gill eventually chose
5-6pm on<br>
> 10/26. As it happened, I was out of town Friday-Tuesday.<br>
> <br>
> I've been corresponding with Gill since he announced for the
seat in<br>
> the fall of 2009 - trying to get him to come clean on his
stance on<br>
> the war. (From the News-Gazette, October, 2009: "Gill said he
would<br>
> not support a total withdrawal of U.S. forces from
Afghanistan...")<br>
> <br>
> Gill's statement read at the top of program managed to evade
any<br>
> mention of (a) the administration's motive for the AfPak war
and its<br>
> lies ("stopping terrorism") about those motives; (b) any
principled -<br>
> as opposed to "pragmatic" ("we might not be winning") -
reason to<br>
> oppose the war (as found, e.g., among Ron Paulists,
Libertarians and<br>
> paleo-conservatives); and/or (c) a pledge like Tim Johnson's
to vote<br>
> against any more money for war. (And Johnson is in fact
voting that<br>
> way.) What the statement does contain are self-serving errors
in fact<br>
> about the history of the AfPak war.<br>
> <br>
> As for the no-hope comment, did you note that the NYT gave
Gill a<br>
> 0.2% (that's two-tenths of one percent) chance of winning?<br>
> <br>
> And I'm sorry you don't see the difference between Gill's
campaign<br>
> and the "presumed futile" Green party campaign for the same
seat in<br>
> 2002. The Greens took advantage of a quirk in the repressive<br>
> election laws to run a campaign - which they knew they would
loose -<br>
> in order to raise issues that would not be raised by the
Republicans<br>
> or Democrats. Gill evaded issues - especially the war - in
order to<br>
> try to be elected.<br>
> <br>
> It's not a smear to point out those evasions. --CGE<br>
> <br>
> On 10/26/10 11:45 PM, Morton K. Brussel wrote:<br>
>> Most telling of all is the<br>
> absence of Carl Estabrook on the panel. If<br>
> <br>
>> he were able to participate (Did he require an invitation<br>
> [for a<br>
> <br>
>> program he initiated]? Did Gill object to his possible<br>
> presence on<br>
> <br>
>> the panel with him?), his absence indicates rank
cowardice.<br>
> Evidently<br>
> <br>
>> Estabrook feels he can mouth off accusations better if
there<br>
> is no<br>
> <br>
>> face-to face rebuttal.<br>
> <br>
>> <br>
> <br>
>> As for the sly "no-hope" comment, Estabrook should know
what<br>
> it means<br>
> <br>
>> to run a campaign presumed futile. His attempt to smear
the<br>
> program<br>
> <br>
>> is appalling.<br>
> <br>
>> <br>
> <br>
>> I thought Gill expressed himself admirably, and Karen,
Ron<br>
> and Linda<br>
> <br>
>> deserve our thanks for carrying on and preparing well.<br>
> <br>
>> <br>
> <br>
>> --mkb<br>
> <br>
>> <br>
> <br>
>> On Oct 26, 2010, at 11:06 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:<br>
> <br>
>> <br>
> <br>
>>> The program tonight as broadcast showed a remarkable<br>
> development to<br>
> <br>
>>> David Gill's views on the US war in the Middle East.<br>
> (Gill is the<br>
> <br>
>>> no-hope Democratic candidate running against the<br>
> Republican<br>
> <br>
>>> incumbent, Tim Johnson, for the local congressional<br>
> seat.) He even<br>
> <br>
>>> struggled to modify the statement - his statement -
read<br>
> by a<br>
> <br>
>>> member of the panel at the beginning of the program!<br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
>>> One can see why - that statement is a tissue of lies.<br>
> What he said<br>
> <br>
>>> tonight - together with that statement - is a painful<br>
> exercise in<br>
> <br>
>>> misrepresentation - both of his own views and those
of<br>
> his<br>
> <br>
>>> opponent. That has of course been the practice of the<br>
> Democrats<br>
> <br>
>>> since the beginning of this phase of the Long War.<br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
>>> See the statement here:<br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.gill2010.com/issues/foreign-policy/afghanistan/"><http://www.gill2010.com/issues/foreign-policy/afghanistan/></a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.gill2010.com/issues/foreign-policy/afghanistan/"><http://www.gill2010.com/issues/foreign-policy/afghanistan/></a>.<br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
>>> We might actually get a debate on the war if people
have<br>
> a chance<br>
> <br>
>>> to see how disingenuous Gill's statement is - even
with<br>
> his<br>
> <br>
>>> "evolutions" on tonight's program.<br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
>>> Gill's major charge against Johnson is that he
"doesn't<br>
> support the<br>
> <br>
>>> troops" - a made-up Bushism. But Gill's
prevarications<br>
> and<br>
> <br>
>>> misrepresentations have deprived the local voters of
a<br>
> real debate<br>
> <br>
>>> on the war - which looked liked happening, when
Johnson<br>
> said he<br>
> <br>
>>> was wrong to vote for the invasions of Afghanistan
and<br>
> Iraq, and<br>
> <br>
>>> pledged to vote against any more money for war in the<br>
> Mideast - and<br>
> <br>
>>> he is voting that way. Gill still won't make that
pledge,<br>
> as a<br>
> <br>
>>> close examination of his statement shows.<br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
>>> Both parties have worked hard to make sure that next<br>
> week's<br>
> <br>
>>> election is meaningless - and have largely succeeded.
It<br>
> will not,<br>
> <br>
>>> most importantly, be a vote on the war. We should<br>
> therefore be<br>
> <br>
>>> working to stir up people across the political
spectrum<br>
> on the<br>
> <br>
>>> military and economic betrayals of the current
president<br>
> and<br>
> <br>
>>> Congress.<br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
>>> The question is, Whom are we going to allow Barack
Obama<br>
> to kill<br>
> <br>
>>> going forward, and why?<br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
>>> Some people are talking about what Obama and the<br>
> Democratas are<br>
> <br>
>>> actually doing. Contrast Chris Floyd's remarks, as<br>
> follows, with<br>
> <br>
>>> Gill's evasions, above:<br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
>>> "...Friends, it's very simple: if you support Barack<br>
> Obama and the<br>
> <br>
>>> Democrats -- even if reluctantly, even if you're just<br>
> being all<br>
> <br>
>>> sophisticatedly super-savvy and blogospherically<br>
> strategic about<br>
> <br>
>>> it, playing the "long game" or eleven-dimensional
chess<br>
> or what<br>
> <br>
>>> have you -- you are supporting the outright murder of<br>
> innocent<br>
> <br>
>>> people who have never done anything against you or
yours.<br>
> You have<br>
> <br>
>>> walked into a house, battered down the bedroom door,
put<br>
> the barrel<br>
> <br>
>>> of a gun against the temple of a sleeping child, and<br>
> pulled the<br>
> <br>
>>> trigger. That is what you are supporting, that is
what<br>
> you are<br>
> <br>
>>> complicit in, that is what you yourself are doing."<br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
>>> Full article at<br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://chris-floyd.com/articles/1-latest-news/2035-obamas-finest-hour-killing-innocent-people-for-qmade-up-crapq.html"><http://chris-floyd.com/articles/1-latest-news/2035-obamas-finest-hour-killing-innocent-people-for-qmade-up-crapq.html></a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://chris-floyd.com/articles/1-latest-news/2035-obamas-finest-hour-killing-innocent-people-for-qmade-up-crapq.html"><http://chris-floyd.com/articles/1-latest-news/2035-obamas-finest-hour-killing-innocent-people-for-qmade-up-crapq.html></a>.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> <br>
>> <br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> On 10/25/10 12:05 PM, Karen Medina wrote:<br>
>>>> Dr. Gill is coming to<br>
> talk with<br>
> <br>
>>> AWARE (the local anti-war,<br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
>>>> anti-racism effort of Champaign-Urbana). Would
you<br>
> like to<br>
> <br>
>>> come and<br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
>>>> share your reasons for being against this war
with<br>
> Dr. Gill?<br>
> <br>
>>> We would<br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
>>>> greatly appreciate it.<br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
>>>> <br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
>>>> Tuesday, October 26, 2010 5pm-6pm UPTV (in the
Urbana<br>
> City<br>
> <br>
>>> Council<br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
>>>> Chambers) 400 South Vine Street, Urbana, IL A
taping<br>
> of AWARE<br>
> <br>
>>> on the<br>
> <br>
>>> <br>
> <br>
>>>> Air for Channel 6 that will air at 10pm Tuesday<br>
> evening.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________ Peace mailing
list <br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Peace@lists.chambana.net">Peace@lists.chambana.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Peace@lists.chambana.net"><mailto:Peace@lists.chambana.net></a> <br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace</a><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -- Brian Dolinar, Ph.D. 303 W. Locust St. Urbana, IL 61801 <br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:briandolinar@gmail.com">briandolinar@gmail.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:briandolinar@gmail.com"><mailto:briandolinar@gmail.com></a></span><br>
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