Thank you, Carl. I believe I speak for everyone on this list when I say that you've succeeded in convincing us, at long last, that War Is a Bad Thing. We owe you a profound debt of gratitude. Or is it a debt of profound gratitude?<div>
<br></div><div>Reverently.</div><div><br></div><div>John</div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:15 PM, C. G. Estabrook <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu">galliher@illinois.edu</a>></span> wrote:</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
"...Obama is forever 'murdering' people around the world rather than
that his (administration's) policies indeed lead to the slaughter of
innocents..." <br>
--M. Brussel<br>
<br>
"Killing one person is murder; killing thousands is foreign policy"<br>
--bumper sticker purchased from AWARE table at Farmers' Market <br>
<br>
I met Murder on the way -<br>
He had a mask like Castlereagh* -<br>
Very smooth he looked, yet grim;<br>
Seven blood-hounds followed him:<br>
<br>
All were fat; and well they might<br>
Be in admirable plight,<br>
For one by one, and two by two,<br>
He tossed the human hearts to chew<br>
Which from his wide cloak he drew.<br>
<br>
Next came Fraud, and he had on,<br>
Like Eldon, an ermined gown;<br>
His big tears, for he wept well,<br>
Turned to mill-stones as they fell.<br>
<br>
And the little children, who<br>
Round his feet played to and fro,<br>
Thinking every tear a gem,<br>
Had their brains knocked out by them...<br>
<br>
'And that slaughter to the Nation<br>
Shall steam up like inspiration,<br>
Eloquent, oracular;<br>
A volcano heard afar.<br>
<br>
'And these words shall then become<br>
Like Oppression's thundered doom<br>
Ringing through each heart and brain,<br>
Heard again - again - again -<br>
<br>
'Rise like Lions after slumber<br>
In unvanquishable number -<br>
Shake your chains to earth like dew<br>
Which in sleep had fallen on you -<br>
Ye are many - they are few.'<br>
<br>
--from "The Masque of Anarchy," by Percy Bysshe Shelley, written on
the occasion of the "Peterloo Massacre" carried out by the British
Government at St Peter's Field, Manchester, on 16 August 1819, when
cavalry charged into a crowd of 60,000–80,000 gathered at a meeting
to demand the reform of parliamentary representation. (Cf. the
attack on the unarmed Bonus Expeditionary Force - 43,000 marchers,
including 17,000 World War I veterans and their families - in
Washington DC on 28 July 1932 by US army infantry and cavalry
supported by six tanks, and commanded by Army Chief of Staff General
Douglas MacArthur; Major, later President, Dwight D. Eisenhower was
his liaison with Washington police, and Major George Patton led the
cavalry.)<br>
___________<br>
<br>
*British Foreign Minister who eventually killed himself by cutting
his throat with a letter-opener.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/27/10 12:07 AM, Brussel Morton K. wrote:<br>
<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">> Joy and others,<br>
> <br>
> I've been pondering the nature of the peace-discuss list for
some <br>
> time, and am sympathetic to your annoyance and exasperation
with its <br>
> current incarnation. Since it is an open forum, however, I'm
not<br>
> sure anything can or should be done about it. Relatively few<br>
> contribute routinely to the discussion there. I have been
among them,<br>
> but aside from articles I run across that appear pertinent to
AWARE's<br>
> supposed mission—anti-war and anti-racism—, I usually only
respond to<br>
> opinions or commentary I find fault with.<br>
> <br>
> What irritates me in some of the discussion is a grossly
repetitious <br>
> insistence on certain themes, themes to which I do not
necessarily <br>
> disagree, but whose presentation I think are not quite
honest, hence <br>
> destructive. Thus, Obama is forever "murdering" people around
the <br>
> world rather than that his (administration's) policies indeed
lead<br>
> to the slaughter of innocents. For some, it seems any slight<br>
> deviation from their own beliefs are to be condemned. There
is scant<br>
> nuance, to an extent often bordering on intellectual
dishonesty<br>
> and/or distortion. Distinctions are avoided. "Liberals", the
"left", <br>
> Democrats, and even "progressives"—defined rather arbitrarily
<br>
> according to the points to be made—are too often cast as
stooges or <br>
> dupes for the power elites (not insufficiently
anti-capitalist, <br>
> anti-war, and/or anti-imperialist). "Abortion is murder" is
another <br>
> example. Religious doctrine/beliefs (God) also sometimes get
thrown <br>
> in where, from my point of view, they have no relevance to
the <br>
> mission of AWARE. Not infrequently, when a discussion occurs,
and <br>
> questions are raised, the questions are not answered honestly
or <br>
> directly, but rather a bait-and-switch rhetorical technique
ensues.<br>
> <br>
> But to repeat, perhaps the most irritating aspect that arises
for me <br>
> is the obsessional repetition of what one wants to have
others <br>
> believe. Furthermore, I find that the discussions on the list
are<br>
> not broadly balanced; the variety of opinions on the list
seems to me<br>
> to be too narrow.<br>
> <br>
> Presentations found at ZNet is much better.<br>
> <br>
> One obvious solution to all this is to simply remove oneself
from<br>
> the list. But there are useful things to be aware of that are<br>
> exposed there. It's akin to subscribing and hence being led
to read<br>
> the editorial page of the News-Gazette or the NYT, not to
mention<br>
> the choice of articles presented. I'm often tempted to cease
my <br>
> subscriptions, but I haven't followed through.<br>
> <br>
> My 2˘.<br>
> <br>
> --mk<br></span></div></blockquote></div></div>