<html><head><base href="x-msg://1791/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I'm not sure what to make of a fin de siecle cross between Freud and Hertzl, but Qumsiyeh posted an reference to an intriguing video about the antisemitism of Hertzl (a self-hating Jew?). <div><br></div><div><a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4452153918748081072#docid=902406897">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4452153918748081072#docid=902406897</a><br>2366598651 </div><div><br></div><div>What do you make of that?</div><div><br></div><div>--mkb</div><div><br><div><div>On Nov 9, 2010, at 10:36 AM, David Green wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">No, Michael has retired and moved to Chicago. The currently vapid status seekers are Matti Bunzl and Bruce Rosenstock--the latter does a good job of affecting a kind of Viennese fin de siecle appearance, perhaps a cross between Freud and Herzl. It was actually more honest and refreshing (and more straightforwardly outrageous) when PJCS was being administered by someone who was honestly vile about his Zionism and his contempt for the Palestinians (and the truth). I think that this pair are smart enough to know that the jig is up, and are positioning themselves to survive intact. The fence that they are building in order to sit on is quite impressive.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "><br><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">From:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Robert Naiman <<a href="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com">naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>David Green <<a href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">davegreen84@yahoo.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Cc:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Peace Discuss <<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Sent:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tue, November 9, 2010 10:07:16 AM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Subject:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Peace-discuss] Help the Palestinians. Go See This Movie<br></font><br>Excellent. Who should I contact? Is it still Michael Shapiro?<br><br><div class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 10:05 AM, David Green<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">davegreen84@yahoo.com</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Of course the JCS program will sponsor it. It doesn't actually require them to do anything to help the Palestinians, but they can pretend that they are on their side, hopefully without provoking an unpleasant response from the Jewish Community Relations Council.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "><br><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><div class="im" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">From:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Robert Naiman <<a href="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com">naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</a>><br></div><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Jenifer Cartwright <<a href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com">jencart13@yahoo.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Cc:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>David Green <<a href="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:davegreen84@yahoo.com">davegreen84@yahoo.com</a>>; Peace Discuss <<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Sent:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tue, November 9, 2010 9:55:26 AM<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "></div><div class="h5" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Subject:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Peace-discuss] Help the Palestinians. Go See This Movie<br></div></div></font><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "></div><div class="h5" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br>Another approach would be to try to rent the Art for a single showing of Budrus.<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Would anyone be interested in pursuing this? Perhaps we can get the Committee on Jewish Culture and Society to co-sponsor. It is, after all, an Israeli film. :)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><div class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Jenifer Cartwright<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:jencart13@yahoo.com">jencart13@yahoo.com</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; "><table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top"><font size="4" face="arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">Doubtful that The Art will show this, tho' AWARE Films might take it on (after we show STANDING ARMY, if ever).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 13px; ">I might be up for Bob's suggestion if carpools form:</span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: arial; font-size: 10pt; "><span style="line-height: 16px; font-family: monospace; font-size: 14px; ">"How about a Budrus road trip to Chicago? We could look for a showing on Saturday afternoon the 20th, take a carload or two, go up and come back on the same day."</span></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="line-height: 16px; font-family: monospace; font-size: 14px; "> </span><span style="line-height: 16px; "><span style="font-size: small; "><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">--Jenifer</font></span></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br><font size="4" face="arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">--- On<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font><b style="font-family: arial; font-size: 10pt; ">Tue, 11/9/10, Robert Naiman<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i><<a href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a>></i></b><font size="4" face="arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote</span></font><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><blockquote style="border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 5px; font-family: arial; margin-left: 5px; font-size: 10pt; "><br><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To me, the key phrase here is this:<br><br>"Calling for non-violence when one is not standing by the non-violent"<br><br>Because precisely what I am calling for is "standing by the<br>non-violent." That is why I am trying to get as many Americans as<br>possible to see the movie "Budrus" - a small but feasible and<br>important way of "standing by the non-violent" is to learn their<br>stories, and someone has gone to the trouble of packaging a bunch of<br>those stories in a particularly accessible form - a form that a<br>Washington Post reporter called "riveting" and "a sure-fire<br>crowd-pleaser," and former AIPAC staffer M.J. Rosenberg called a<br>"totally engaging" story of "regular people" who "take their fate into<br>their own hands." It seems to me that trying to take advantage of such<br>an opportunity is a minimum thing that one can do.<br><br>I had an exchange with the Art Theater guy. He is fairly skeptical but<br>promised he would consider it, probably not in the near term.<br><br>Meanwhile, the film is showing at Facets Multimedia in Chicago from<br>Nov 19 - Nov 27.<br><br>How about a Budrus road trip to Chicago? We could look for a showing<br>on Saturday afternoon the 20th, take a carload or two, go up and come<br>back on the same day.<br><br>On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 9:04 AM, David Green <<a href="http://mc/compose?to=davegreen84@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be</b></font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>davegreen84@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>> Max Ajl, at the Jewbonics website, has written quite a bit about the "double<br>> standard" regarding tactics, including recently:<br>><br>> "Since “targeted” murders are illegal, one would expect outcry. One would<br>> expect it, but it never comes. Again, compare “targeted assas si na tions”<br>> of the resis tance when they are simply going about their business in their<br>> own land versus “targeted assas si na tions” of illegal settlers in the West<br>> Bank undoubt edly carrying out war crimes. Or, actually compare the<br>> response, espe cially on the liberal left: hand-wringing about the barbarity<br>> of one set of killings, quietude about another."<br>><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.maxajl.com/?p=4400" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.maxajl.com/?p=4400</a><br>><br>> Also,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.maxajl.com/?p=3574" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.maxajl.com/?p=3574</a><br>><br>> "Calling for non-violence when one is not standing by the non-violent is an<br>> attempted affirmation of purity, nothing more. Gandhi and King stood on the<br>> front lines of their efforts, whether or not they were correct (Michael<br>> Neumann has shown fairly persuasively that as practical matters both King<br>> and Gandhi’s efforts were failures). They were embedded organically in the<br>> social movements they sought to influence."<br>><br>><br>> ________________________________<br>> From: E.Wayne Johnson <<a href="http://mc/compose?to=ewj@pigs.ag" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ewj@pigs.ag</a>><br>> To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://mc/compose?to=naiman.uiuc@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be</b></font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</a>; Peace-discuss List<br>> <<a href="http://mc/compose?to=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be</b></font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>><br>> Sent: Mon, November 8, 2010 11:14:48 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Help the Palestinians. Go See This Movie<br>><br>> Seriously, Bob, I am quite interested in non-violent action and positively<br>> detest violent action.<br>> I am repulsed by the notion of violence almost as much as I am by the threat<br>> thereof.<br>><br>> But, I perceive that the concept of any captive people being freed from an<br>> occupation by nonviolent<br>> action is ridiculous.<br>><br>> Hey! Mister Shark! I'm being nice and non-violent. Would you like to spit<br>> my leg out now? I'm going to be late for Oprah if you don't let me go real<br>> soon.<br>><br>> The only problem with your suggestion (as I see it), Bob, is that it fails<br>> to take into<br>> account the characteristics of sharks, the theoretical fundamentals of<br>> communication with sharks, and the characteristics of ostensibly bitable<br>> appendages, among other things, perhaps...<br>><br>> However, other than that, I am sure that Palestine can be freed quickly and<br>> the whole world can participate in a historic rewrite of the future - at<br>> home, on the couch, in front of their TV sets, when this movie comes out on<br>> DeeVeeDee.<br>><br>><br>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Naiman" <<a href="http://mc/compose?to=naiman.uiuc@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be</b></font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</a>><br>> To: "Peace-discuss List" <<a href="http://mc/compose?to=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be</b></font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>><br>> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 6:17 AM<br>> Subject: [Peace-discuss] Help the Palestinians. Go See This Movie<br>><br>><br>>> If many Americans see the movie Budrus, about the successful<br>>> nonviolent resistance of Palestinians and Israelis against the route<br>>> of the Israeli "separation barrier" and its confiscation of<br>>> Palestinian land in the West Bank village of Budrus, it could lead to<br>>> concrete changes in U.S. policy that would lead to real improvement in<br>>> the ability of Palestinians in the West Bank to free themselves from<br>>> the occupation by nonviolent action.<br>>><br>>><br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/help-the-palestinians-go_b_780609.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/help-the-palestinians-go_b_780609.html</a><br>>><br>>> --<br>>> Robert Naiman<br>>> Policy Director<br>>> Just Foreign Policy<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://mc/compose?to=naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be</b></font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>>><br>>> Urge Congress to Support a Timetable for Military Withdrawal from<br>>> Afghanistan<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern</a><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Peace-discuss mailing list<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://mc/compose?to=Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be</b></font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br>>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Peace-discuss mailing list<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://mc/compose?to=Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be</b></font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Peace-discuss mailing list<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://mc/compose?to=Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be</b></font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br>><br>><br><br><br><br>--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Robert Naiman<br>Policy Director<br>Just Foreign Policy<br><a href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br><a href="http://mc/compose?to=naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be</b></font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br><br>Urge Congress to Support a Timetable for Military Withdrawal from Afghanistan<br><a href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>Peace-discuss mailing list<br><a href="http://mc/compose?to=Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be</b></font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Peace-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Robert Naiman<br>Policy Director<br>Just Foreign Policy<br><a href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br><a href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br><br>Urge Congress to Support a Timetable for Military Withdrawal from Afghanistan<br><a href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern</a><br><br> <br></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Robert Naiman<br>Policy Director<br>Just Foreign Policy<br><a href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br><a href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br><br>Urge Congress to Support a Timetable for Military Withdrawal from Afghanistan<br><a href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/feingold-mcgovern</a><br><br> <br></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Peace-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>