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Vatican: Everyone can use condoms to prevent HIV<br>
By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press 11/23/10<br>
<br>
VATICAN CITY – Using a condom is a lesser evil than transmitting HIV
to a sexual partner — even if that means a woman averts a possible
pregnancy, the Vatican said Tuesday...<br>
Benedict received a copy of the book "Light of the World" during an
audience Tuesday with the author, Peter Seewald, who conducted
several hour-long interviews with the pontiff last summer.<br>
"I hope that this book is useful for the faith of many people,"
Benedict said.<br>
The pope's comments in the book implied that he was referring
primarily to homosexual sex, when condoms aren't being used as a
form of contraception. Questions arose immediately about the pope's
intent, though, because the Italian translation of the book used the
feminine for prostitute, whereas the original German used the
masculine.<br>
[Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico] Lombardi told reporters
Tuesday that he asked the pope whether he intended to refer only to
male prostitutes. Benedict replied that it really didn't matter, the
important thing was the person in question took into consideration
the life of the other, Lombardi said.<br>
"I personally asked the pope if there was a serious, important
problem in the choice of the masculine over the feminine," Lombardi
said. "He told me 'no.' The problem is this ... It's the first step
of taking responsibility, of taking into consideration the risk of
the life of another with whom you have a relationship."<br>
"This is if you're a man, a woman, or a transsexual. We're at the
same point. The point is it's a first step of taking responsibility,
of avoiding passing a grave risk onto another," Lombardi said...<br>
In the book, the pope was not justifying or condoning gay sex,
condoms as a means of artificial contraception or heterosexual sex
outside of a marriage. He reaffirms the Vatican opposition to
homosexual acts and artificial contraception and reaffirms the
inviolability of marriage between man and woman.<br>
But by broadening the condom comments to also apply to women, the
pope is saying that condom use is a lesser evil than passing HIV
onto a partner even when pregnancy is possible.<br>
"We're not just talking about an encounter between two men, which
has little to do with procreation. We're now introducing
relationships that could lead to childbirth," Martin said.<br>
While the lesser evil concept has long been a tenet of moral
theology, the pope's comments mark the first time a pope had ever
publicly applied the theory to condom use as a way to fight HIV
transmission. Individual bishops and theologians have applied that
theory...<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun Nov 21 16:22:35 CST 2010, Corey Mattson <coreymattson at
gmail.com> wrote<br>
<br>
I don't fancy myself an expert on Catholic doctrine. But from being
raised<br>
Catholic, and from my long exposure as a child to conservative
Catholic<br>
thought via my extended family, I was under the impression that the
Church's<br>
prohibition on condoms stemmed from their obstruction of the natural
process<br>
of procreation. I was thinking, in my first post, that the
permissibility of<br>
condom use for homosexual males could now be justified by the Pope
since two<br>
males cannot procreate. This seems straightforward. Otherwise why
would the<br>
Pope not say heterosexual couples can use condoms as well? Is this
not what<br>
explains the Pope's statements, the Church's position against
artificially<br>
impeding conception?<br>
---Corey<br>
<br>
On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 12:55 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at
illinois.edu
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss"><http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss></a>>wrote:<br>
<br>
<span style="white-space: pre;">> / The text as published in
L'Osservatore Romano (in Italian) says <br>
> "una</span><br>
/>/ prostituta," but the interview (and the book) are probably in
German.<br>
/>/<br>
/>/ I must say though that that this detailed consideration of
what the bishop<br>
/>/ of<br>
/>/ Rome says has in my experience been limited to theologians,
and indeed only<br>
/>/ some of them... But apparently the interpretation is not
easy: e.g.,<br>
/>/ Jenifer is<br>
/>/ surely not correct when she says "he's protecting just the
guys and the<br>
/>/ gays."<br>
/>/<br>
/>/ ---- Original message ----<br>
/>/ >Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 10:49:53 -0600<br>
/>/ >From: Stuart Levy <slevy at ncsa.illinois.edu
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss"><http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss></a>><br>
/>/ >Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Pope...<br>
/>/ >To: Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss"><http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss></a>><br>
/>/ ><br>
/>/ >On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 08:28:28AM -0800, Jenifer
Cartwright wrote:<br>
/>/ >> Yep, he's protecting just the guys and the gays when
it comes to HIV-<br>
/>/ AIDS, continues to exclude heteros. He also sez gays should
follow DADT if<br>
/>/ they're already ordained, and find another career if they're
not. My<br>
/>/ personal<br>
/>/ fave is his saying that when a pope is unable to function he
should<br>
/>/ "consider"<br>
/>/ resigning (paraphrasing). I tho'd "Catholic" meant
"universal",but seems it<br>
/>/ really means "cover-up." More articles by googling pope
condoms. --Jenifer<br>
/>/ ><br>
/>/ >The BBC last night noted that the Pope had said in<br>
/>/ >Italian "una prostituta", a word used for both male and<br>
/>/ >female prostitutes. The speaker suggested that it was a<br>
/>/ >mistranslation to read that as referring to males only.<br>
/>/ ><br>
/>/ ><br>
/>/ >> --- On Sat, 11/20/10, Corey Mattson <coreymattson
at gmail.com
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss"><http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss></a>><br>
/>/ wrote:<br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >> From: Corey Mattson <coreymattson at gmail.com
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss"><http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss></a>><br>
/>/ >> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Pope...<br>
/>/ >> To: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss"><http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss></a>><br>
/>/ >> Cc: "Peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at
lists.chambana.net
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss"><http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss></a>><br>
/>/ >> Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010, 8:17 PM<br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >> Carl - I think I found where you're quoting from and
don't agree with<br>
/>/ your interpretation of it. It says that the Pope has been
criticized by<br>
/>/ even<br>
/>/ church officials on his view that monogamous couples should
not use<br>
/>/ condoms to avoid disease. It doesn't mention how many church
officials.<br>
/>/ Just<br>
/>/ before this statement, the article says that the Pope did not
mention<br>
/>/ couples<br>
/>/ where one spouse is infected, mentioning only the case of
male prostitutes.<br>
/>/ (BTW, I support any move toward condom use, but of course for
everybody,<br>
/>/ not just males and male prostitutes. Didn't want to give the
wrong<br>
/>/ impression.)<br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >> Sent from my iPhone<br>
/>/ >> On Nov 20, 2010, at 4:59 PM, "C. G. Estabrook"
<galliher at illinois.edu
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss"><http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss></a>><br>
/>/ wrote:<br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >> As the article points out, church officials have
accepted "condom<br>
/>/ >> use for ... couples [with an HIV+ spouse] to
protect the uninfected<br>
/>/ >> spouse from transmission." The pope's remarks
will reinforce that<br>
/>/ >> opinion.<br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >> On 11/20/10 4:40 PM, Corey Mattson wrote:<br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >> Huh...Surprising. Like Carl implies, it looks
like the Church<br>
/>/ >> can permit condom use when it doesn't
directly impede<br>
/>/ >> procreation. So tell me if I got the Pope's
view wrong: Condoms<br>
/>/ >> used to stop diseases are fine, only when
the sexual act in<br>
/>/ >> which they're used cannot result in
pregnancy. This is<br>
/>/ >> surprising, since someone opposed to
homosexuality could easily<br>
/>/ >> argue that allowing for condom use among
homosexual males is<br>
/>/ >> also promoting sex that does not result in
procreation. Like<br>
/>/ >> everything coming from the Vatican, it seems
a little<br>
/>/ >> convoluted.<br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >> Corey<br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >> Sent from my iPhone<br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >> On Nov 20, 2010, at 1:56 PM, "C. G.
Estabrook"<br>
/>/ <galliher at illinois.edu
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss"><http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss></a>><br>
/>/ >> wrote:<br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >> ...was making the fairly obvious point that
it's better<br>
/>/ >> not to risk the spread of disease.<br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >> His comment attracts notice only because
earlier popes had<br>
/>/ >> disapproved of condoms for birth control.<br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >> I think it's fair to say that the pope
doesn't approve of<br>
/>/ >> homosexual acts among adult males.<br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >> On 11/20/10 1:32 PM, Jenifer Cartwright
wrote:<br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/ >> Omg, color me shocked reading
the Pope's stance<br>
/>/ >> on the use of condoms for male
prostitutes until I<br>
/>/ >> realized that once again, this
benefits ONLY males<br>
/>/ >> (double duty this time, ya
might say). So the pope<br>
/>/ >> is okay w/ homosexuality so
long as it's limited<br>
/>/ >> to ADULT males?? Any chance
that the Christian<br>
/>/ >> right and tea-baggers will
follow suit, do ya<br>
/>/ >> suppose??<br>
/>/ >><br>
/>/
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101120/ap_on_re_eu/eu_pope_condoms">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101120/ap_on_re_eu/eu_pope_condoms</a><br>
/>/ >> --Jenifer<br>
<br>
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