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Why, man, he doth bestride the narrow world<br>
Like a Colossus, and we petty men<br>
Walk under his huge legs and peep about<br>
To find ourselves dishonorable graves.<br>
Men at some time are masters of their fates:<br>
The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,<br>
But in ourselves, that we are underlings. <br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/21/11 6:28 PM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4D87DF02.7020601@pigs.ag" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Obama lied. <br>
<br>
That's what he does. <br>
<br>
We can't seem to blame him for it any more<br>
than one can blame Limburger cheese for its odor<br>
or blame narcissi for being yellow. Those things<br>
are intrinsic to the program.<br>
<br>
At this point, it is much worse than useless to <i>politely
beseech
the Congress</i> to <br>
do anything at all. The problem is not with the Congress, the
cheese,<br>
the bulbs, or even Mr Obama.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/22/2011 2:53 AM, Robert Naiman wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTinjtkwi=mjzk46V-nWgC53fmHtUkENw4NinYWpz@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
I don't know if you are being sarcastic. The point here is to
reach out
to people who are undecided about or supportive of the Libya
intervention and point out to them that a dangerous precedent is
being
set if there is no Congressional debate. According to a recent
CNN
poll, a clear majority support the intervention right now (last
week,
it was the other way; this is typical - typically there is a
significant swing to support once it is a fait accompli.)
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Incidentally, here is Obama on Presidential authority to
bomb
other countries, 2007:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Q. In what circumstances, if
any,
would the president have constitutional authority to bomb
Iran without
seeking a use-of-force authorization from Congress?
(Specifically, what
about
the strategic bombing of suspected nuclear sites -- a
situation that
does not
involve stopping an IMMINENT threat?)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">A.The President does not have
power
under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military
attack in a
situation that does not involve stopping an actual or
imminent threat
to the
nation.</p>
<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New
Roman";"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/specials/CandidateQA/ObamaQA/">http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/specials/CandidateQA/ObamaQA/</a></span><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 1:25 PM, E.
Wayne
Johnson <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ewj@pigs.ag">ewj@pigs.ag</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px
solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">I understand the
threat much
more clearly and it really does make so
more<br>
sense to worry about war when it is framed in the
spectral context of
"President Palin".<br>
<br>
<br>
*<br>
<br>
And this one woman, she was 23 or 24 And she was laying
on the bed And
you knew she was going to die... And, erh, we gave her a
bottle of
shampoo...
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/22/2011 1:33 AM, Robert Naiman wrote: </div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_quote"><span style="color:
rgb(85, 85, 85); font-family: Arial;
font-size: 13px;"><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://my.firedoglake.com/robertnaiman/2011/03/21/congress-must-debate-the-libya-war/"
target="_blank">http://my.firedoglake.com/robertnaiman/2011/03/21/congress-must-debate-the-libya-war/</a><br>
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href="http://my.firedoglake.com/robertnaiman/2011/03/21/congress-must-debate-the-libya-war/"
rel="bookmark" title="Permanent
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Debate the Libya War</a></h2>
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<td style="border-width: 0px; margin:
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color:
transparent;">By: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://my.firedoglake.com/members/robertnaiman/"
title="Robert Naiman"
style="border-width: 0px; margin:
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width:
0px; font-size: 13px;
vertical-align: baseline;
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color: rgb(15, 102, 145);
text-decoration: none;"
target="_blank">Robert Naiman</a> Monday
March 21, 2011 1:12 pm</td>
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<div style="border-width: 0px; margin: 0.85em
0px 5px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
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rgb(68, 68, 68);">
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align: baseline;
background-color: transparent;">The
U.S.
is now at war in a third Muslim country,
according to the
“official tally” (that is, counting Iraq,
Afghanistan and Libya but not
Pakistan or Yemen, for example.) But
Congress has never authorized or
debated the U.S. military intervention in
Libya. (A sharply disputed
claim holds that the Pakistan and Yemen
actions are covered by the 2001
authorization of military force, but
no-one has dared to argue that the
2001 AUMF covers Libya.)</p>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align: baseline;
background-color: transparent;">Some
will no doubt claim that the President is
acting in Libya within
his authority as Commander-in-Chief. But
this is an extremely dangerous
claim.</p>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align: baseline;
background-color: transparent;">To
put
it crudely: as a matter of logic, if
President Obama can bomb Libya
without Congressional authorization, then
President Palin can bomb Iran
without Congressional authorization. If,
God forbid, we ever get to
that fork in the road, you can bet your
bottom dollar that the
advocates of bombing Iran will invoke
Congressional silence now as
justification for their claims of
unilateral Presidential authority to
bomb anywhere, anytime.</p>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align: baseline;
background-color: transparent;">Some
Members of Congress have strongly objected
to President Obama’s
bombing of Libya without Congressional
approval.</p>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align: baseline;
background-color: transparent;">On
the
Democratic side, John Larson, chair of the
Democratic Caucus in the
House, called for President Obama to seek
congressional approval. Reps.
Jerrold Nadler, Donna Edwards, Mike
Capuano, Dennis Kucinich, Maxine
Waters, Rob Andrews, Sheila Jackson Lee,
Barbara Lee and Eleanor Holmes
Norton “all strongly raised objections to
the constitutionality of the
president’s actions” during a Saturday
call organized by Larson, the <em
style="border-width: 0px; margin: 0px;
padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color:
transparent;">Politico </em><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51595.html"
style="border-width: 0px; margin: 0px;
padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color: transparent;
color: rgb(15, 102, 145);
text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">reports</a>.</p>
<blockquote style="border-width: 0px;
margin: 0px 0px 0px 2em; padding: 0px;
outline-width: 0px; font-size: 13px;
vertical-align: baseline; quotes: none;
font-family: sans-serif; font-style:
italic; color: rgb(67, 98, 129);">
<div style="border-width: 0px; margin:
0px; padding: 3px 30px 2px;
outline-width: 0px; font-size: 13px;
vertical-align: baseline;">
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color:
transparent;">“They
consulted
the Arab League. They consulted the
United Nations. They did
not consult the United States
Congress,” one Democrat[ic] lawmaker
said
of the White House. “They’re creating
wreckage, and they can’t obviate
that by saying there are no boots on
the ground. … There aren’t boots
on the ground; there are Tomahawks in
the air.”</p>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color:
transparent;">“Almost
everybody who spoke was opposed to any
unilateral actions or
decisions being made by the president,
and most of us expressed our
constitutional concerns. There should
be a resolution and there should
be a debate so members of Congress can
decide whether or not we enter
in whatever this action is being
called,” added another House Democrat
opposed to the Libyan operation.</p>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color:
transparent;">“Whose
side are we on? This appears to be
more of a civil war than some
kind of a revolution. Who are
protecting? Are we with the people
that
are supposedly opposed to [Qadhafi]?
You think they have a lot of
people with him? If he is deposed, who
will we be dealing with? There
are a lot of questions here from
members.”</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align: baseline;
background-color: transparent;">On
the
Republican side, Senator Richard Lugar,
ranking Member on Senate
Foreign Relations, told <em
style="border-width: 0px; margin: 0px;
padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color:
transparent;">CBS</em>‘
Face
the Nation yesterday that if we’re going
to war with Libya, we
ought to have a declaration of war by the
Congress:</p>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align: baseline;
background-color: transparent;">A
memo distributed to Republican aides in
the Senate Armed Services and
Foreign Relations Committee made the case
that Congressional
authorization is necessary and used Barack
Obama’s own words to make
the case, <em style="border-width: 0px;
margin: 0px; padding: 0px;
outline-width: 0px; font-size: 13px;
vertical-align: baseline;
background-color: transparent;">ABC</em> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/congress-vote-libya-fly-zone/story?id=13167045"
style="border-width: 0px; margin: 0px;
padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color: transparent;
color: rgb(15, 102, 145);
text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">reported</a>.</p>
<blockquote style="border-width: 0px;
margin: 0px 0px 0px 2em; padding: 0px;
outline-width: 0px; font-size: 13px;
vertical-align: baseline; quotes: none;
font-family: sans-serif; font-style:
italic; color: rgb(67, 98, 129);">
<div style="border-width: 0px; margin:
0px; padding: 3px 30px 2px;
outline-width: 0px; font-size: 13px;
vertical-align: baseline;">
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color:
transparent;">The
memo
quotes Obama when he was in the Senate
and there were concerns
that then-President George W. Bush
would take strike Iran.</p>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color:
transparent;">“The
president
does not have power under the
Constitution to unilaterally
authorize a military attack in a
situation that does not involve
stopping an actual or imminent threat
to the nation,” the memo quotes
then-Senator Obama saying on Dec. 20,
2007.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align: baseline;
background-color: transparent;">In
times
like this, you can be sure some journalist
will marvel at the “<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/20/obama-libya_n_838219.html"
style="border-width: 0px; margin: 0px;
padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color: transparent;
color: rgb(15, 102, 145);
text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">strange
bedfellows</a>” coalition of Democrats
and
Republicans standing up to the President.
But there’s nothing strange
about this bed. Everyone who wants to live
in a constitutional republic
belongs in this bed. Everyone who wants to
hold the Administration to
its promise of a “limited intervention”
aimed at “protecting
civilians,” rather than overthrowing the
Libyan government, and to
avoid “mission creep” from the former to
the latter, belongs in this
bed.</p>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align: baseline;
background-color: transparent;">Congressional
debate
is a key means of compelling the
Administration to
clearly state its case and its objectives,
to be honest and transparent
about the potential cost of its proposed
policies, and to limit its
actions to its stated objectives; and to
force Members of Congress to
go on the record, in opposition or in
support, and to state clearly, if
they support, what it is that they
support. On cost, for example: each
Tomahawk missile is reported to cost on
the order of a million dollars.
So, firing 110 of them over the weekend
cost about $100 million, far
more than House Republicans cut from
National Public Radio with great
fanfare. Shouldn’t Congress consider this
expenditure?</p>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align: baseline;
background-color: transparent;">Two
days into the military intervention, there
was already sharp
dispute over whether the military
intervention that has unfolded has
already gone beyond what the UN Security
Council authorized and what
the Arab League endorsed.</p>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align: baseline;
background-color: transparent;">Yesterday,
the <em style="border-width: 0px; margin:
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color:
transparent;">New
York
Times</em> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/21/world/africa/21libya.html"
style="border-width: 0px; margin: 0px;
padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color: transparent;
color: rgb(15, 102, 145);
text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">reported</a>:</p>
<blockquote style="border-width: 0px;
margin: 0px 0px 0px 2em; padding: 0px;
outline-width: 0px; font-size: 13px;
vertical-align: baseline; quotes: none;
font-family: sans-serif; font-style:
italic; color: rgb(67, 98, 129);">
<div style="border-width: 0px; margin:
0px; padding: 3px 30px 2px;
outline-width: 0px; font-size: 13px;
vertical-align: baseline;">
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color:
transparent;">A
day
after a summit meeting in Paris set
the military operation in
motion, some Arab participants in the
agreement expressed unhappiness
with the way the strikes were
unfolding. The former chairman of the
Arab League, Amr Moussa, told Egyptian
state media that he was calling
for an emergency Arab League meeting
to discuss the situation in the
Arab world and particularly Libya.</p>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color:
transparent;">“What
is happening in Libya differs from the
aim of imposing a no-fly
zone, and what we want is the
protection of civilians and not the
bombardment of more civilians,” he
said, referring to Libyan government
claims that allied bombardment had
killed dozens of civilians in and
near Tripoli.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align: baseline;
background-color: transparent;">Today,
Moussa
appeared to <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110321/wl_nm/us_libya_arabs_moussa_1"
style="border-width: 0px; margin: 0px;
padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color: transparent;
color: rgb(15, 102, 145);
text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">walk
back</a> these remarks.</p>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align: baseline;
background-color: transparent;">But
with Benghazi apparently no longer under
Libyan government threat,
and with Western bombs falling in Tripoli,
this dispute over the scope
of Western bombing is virtually certain to
intensify.</p>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align: baseline;
background-color: transparent;">You
can
debate the constitutional issue of war
powers until the cows come
home; but as a practical matter, if
Congress doesn’t formally address
the issue, such debate isn’t very
relevant. If a majority of the House
and the Senate support the present US
military intervention in Libya,
let them say so on the record, at least,
by voting for a resolution to
authorize military force. If the majority
of the House or Senate are
opposed, let them say so on the record. A
minimum standard for
transparency in government is that the
House and the Senate go on the
record for or against a new war.</p>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align: baseline;
background-color: transparent;"> <strong
style="border-width: 0px; margin: 0px;
padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color:
transparent;">UPDATE:</strong> Former
MoveOn
and Democracy for America staffer Ilya
Sheyman, who is exploring
a run for Congress in Illinois’ 10th
Congressional District, has a <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ilyasheyman.com/on-libya/"
style="border-width: 0px; margin: 0px;
padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color: transparent;
color: rgb(15, 102, 145);
text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">petition</a> calling
for Congress to debate the war in
Libya.</p>
<p style="border-width: 0px; margin: 1em
0px; padding: 0px; outline-width: 0px;
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background-color: transparent;"> <i
style="border-width: 0px; margin: 0px;
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font-size: 13px; vertical-align:
baseline; background-color:
transparent;">Robert
Naiman
is Policy Director at <a
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href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/"
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transparent; color: rgb(15, 102, 145);
text-decoration: none;"
target="_blank">Just Foreign Policy</a>.</i></p>
</div>
</span><br>
<font color="#888888">-- <br>
Robert Naiman<br>
Policy Director<br>
Just Foreign Policy<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org"
target="_blank">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org"
target="_blank">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>
<br>
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<pre><hr size="4" width="90%">
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<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Robert Naiman<br>
Policy Director<br>
Just Foreign Policy<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.justforeignpolicy.org" target="_blank">www.justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:naiman@justforeignpolicy.org" target="_blank">naiman@justforeignpolicy.org</a><br>
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<pre wrap="">
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