<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
    <title></title>
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
    In fact, it was a topic seriously discussed in the Republican party
    in the generation after the Civil War.<br>
    <br>
    The Radical Republicans argued that since they fought a war to end
    chattel slavery, they should now turn their attention to wage
    slavery and eliminate that.  (Lincoln, ever the political realist,
    was aware of the issue, as the State of the Union message I cited
    shows.)  It produced a severe ideological contest within the
    Republican party, because that party also represented the
    industrialists of the North - those whose interests "were most
    carefully attended to," in the destruction of their Southern rivals.<br>
    <br>
    There was obvious force in the pre-war arguments from slaveholders,
    that they took better care of their workers than the Northerners
    did. (Just as you take better care of the car you own than of a
    rental.) E.g., when the pestilential swamps around New Orleans were
    drained, Irish wage-laborers were imported from New York for a task
    that was too dangerous for slaves: a dead slave was a capital loss,
    but a dead Irishman just meant you rented another one. <br>
    <br>
    The matter was settled, at least for a time, by the "robber barons"
    of the Gilded Age, who - as one of their number, Jay Gould, is
    supposed to have said (in the context of the Great Southwest
    Railroad Strike of 1886) - "could hire one-half the American working
    class to kill the other half." So the war against chattel slavery
    was won (?) and the war against wage-slavery lost, but the
    immiseration of American workers, black and white (and Asian)
    continued apace. <br>
    <br>
    The struggle emerged again after the depression of the 1890s with
    the American socialist movement. It took war, repression (the Palmer
    Raids), judicial chicanery ('fire in a crowded theater'), and the
    development of full-fledged propaganda system (Creel Commission) -
    all on the part of a liberal Democratic administration - to defeat
    it. <br>
    <br>
    On 4/10/11 12:24 PM, Morton K. Brussel wrote:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:F1287683-BD5B-4DA9-99EC-222FAEF1503D@illinois.edu"
      type="cite">Evidently, Slavery is equivalent (in moral and
      economic terms)  working for a wage. An amazing revisionist view
      of the Civil War. 
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>--mkb</div>
      <div><br>
        <div>
          <div>On Apr 10, 2011, at 9:18 AM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Societies are defined
              by how the ruling class gets enough to eat.  The American
              civil war was a conflict between two ways of doing that.<br>
              <br>
              Two dominant political groups, one primarily resident
              North of the Mason-Dixon Line and the other south of it,
              competed because they profited from two different and
              incompatible ways of exploiting labor - by renting it or
              owning it (i.e., by chattel-slavery or wage-contract). 
              Extracting surplus value from the direct producer could be
              done ether way, but probably not by a mixture of both.  <br>
              <br>
              That's what Lincoln meant when he said in 1858, "I believe
              this government cannot endure, permanently half slave and
              half free ... it will cease to be divided. It will become
              all one thing or all the other ... Either the opponents of
              slavery, will arrest the further spread of it, and place
              it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it
              is in the course of ultimate extinction; or its advocates
              will push it forward, till it shall become alike lawful in
              all the States, old as well as new — North as well as
              South." <br>
              <br>
              ("Free" labor has a technical meaning - it refers to the
              labor of those who have no right to live without working
              for their masters, i.e., those to whom the society had no
              responsibility.)<br>
              <br>
              The Southern ruling class understood that the new
              Republican party, with its central plank of "no extension
              of slavery" was the vehicle of the northern ruling class
              and wage-slavery, as opposed to their form of slavery.
              When its candidate was elected president, the the rulers
              of the Southern states knew an attack was imminent and
              declared their independence - as these governments had
              done three generations earlier, in 1776.<br>
              <br>
              Gen. Winfield Scott, the leading US military figure - his
              generation's George Washington - wrote on the day before
              Lincoln's inauguration (March 3, 1861) and suggested the
              new president could conquer the Southern states at the end
              of a long, expensive, and desolating war, and to no good
              purpose; or he could say to the seceded States, "Wayward
              sisters, depart in peace!" <br>
              <br>
              Lincoln chose the former, and Scott was retired. <br>
              <br>
              That Lincoln understood what was at stake in his
              state-building is clear from his first State of the Union
              address:
              <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="http://www.presidentialrhetoric.com/historicspeeches/lincoln/stateoftheunion1861.html">&lt;http://www.presidentialrhetoric.com/historicspeeches/lincoln/stateoftheunion1861.html&gt;</a>.<br>
              <br>
              <br>
              On 4/10/11 6:02 AM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote:
              <blockquote cite="mid:4DA18E3D.7060005@pigs.ag"
                type="cite"> The best explanation of the "War of
                Northern Aggression" that I ever heard came from Fred
                Madsen,<br>
                who took a bullet in South Vietnam during reconnaissance
                in the early 60's.<br>
                <br>
                Fred said that the war was fought over who would control
                the Land occupied by the southern states.<br>
                <br>
                I find Fred's explanation to be unassailable.<br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                On 4/10/2011 10:49 AM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
                <blockquote
                  cite="mid:30011.30286.qm@web44915.mail.sp1.yahoo.com"
                  type="cite">
                  <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
                    <tbody>
                      <tr>
                        <td style="font: inherit;" valign="top">
                          <table border="0" cellpadding="0"
                            cellspacing="0">
                            <tbody>
                              <tr>
                                <td style="font: inherit;" valign="top">
                                  <blockquote style="border-left: 2px
                                    solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left:
                                    5px; padding-left: 5px;">
                                    <div id="yiv790352220">
                                      <table border="0" cellpadding="0"
                                        cellspacing="0">
                                        <tbody>
                                          <tr>
                                            <td style="font: inherit;"
                                              valign="top"><font
                                                class="yiv790352220Apple-style-span"
                                                size="2">I  ran into
                                                this today on Google or
                                                Yahoo news and made it
                                                into a word doc b/c I
                                                tho't it was interesting
                                                and enlightening enuff
                                                on its own, plus it had
                                                parallels with today's
                                                issues, i e poor white
                                                farmers [who were not
                                                slave-owners] supporting
                                                the Confederacy because
                                                that was the class they
                                                aspired to and
                                                identified with...
                                                (Sociologist James
                                                Loewen wrote <i>Lies My
                                                  Teacher Told Me</i> and <i>Sundown

                                                  Towns</i>).</font>
                                              <div><font
                                                  class="yiv790352220Apple-style-span"
                                                  size="2"> --Jenifer</font></div>
                                            </td>
                                          </tr>
                                        </tbody>
                                      </table>
                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </td>
                              </tr>
                            </tbody>
                          </table>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                        </td>
                      </tr>
                    </tbody>
                  </table>
                  <pre wrap=""><hr size="4" width="90%">
_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a>
  </pre>
                </blockquote>
                <br>
                <pre wrap=""><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a>
</pre>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            Peace-discuss mailing list<br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a><br>
            <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a><br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
      <pre wrap="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net">Peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss">http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>