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Exxon and BP and the Koch Brothers probably don't have my address which
explains<br>
why I haven't been getting my cut of those Dollars for Deniers.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/26/11 12:58, Morton K. Brussel wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:9D2BD3BA-F78E-424D-B40E-D5DEB0DA4AAB@illinois.edu"
type="cite">The perversity of these supposedly clever arguments can
hardly be overestimated.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The money behind the (anthropogenic) global warming "deniers"
comes mainly from fossil energy corporations and right wing elements
such as Tea Partyers (funded by Koch like types) and their
representatives in Congress.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Abysmal ignorance on the environmental problems facing the
globe, or whatever else is hidden behind this (facade of?) ignorance,
on the part of those who may be "anti-war" ought not to be excused.
Carl ought to query his idol Chomsky on what he thinks about AGW, and
while at it he might query him about the catastrophic dangers of
nuclear power about which Chomsky has been strangely silent. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--mkb</div>
<div> <br>
<div>
<div>On Jul 25, 2011, at 4:21 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> These are the Obama Years:
the Second Law of Thermodynamics will be RIGOROUSLY ENFORCED until a
desirable result is obtained. (But the media are not to investigate or
report on the process, until a successful outcome is reached; cf. <span
class="st">Overseas Contingency Operations from Libya to Pakistan<em></em></span>.)<br>
<br>
The important question about AGW is of course, How do you make money
from it? As my old friend Cooey Bono (no relation to singers of that
name), use to say "Who's ox [or was it 'ogs?] is being al-Gored?" <br>
<br>
We need in fact an Al-Gore rhythm to beat upon our fellow citizens'
heads and calculate how they'll react to the temperature's being slowly
raised on their immersed anuras...<br>
<br>
<br>
On 7/25/11 4:04 PM, "E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森" wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4E2DDA75.90107@pigs.ag" type="cite">
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Ultimately it seems that the general good will be greater threatened <br>
by coldness than by being excessively warmed.<br>
<br>
Carbon dioxide is great stuff if you are a plant, and plants seem to
have exceptional utility.<br>
<br>
There is a tendency toward aggregation, and aggregation seems to result
in concentration of wastes although<br>
there is some economy in non-duplication of some shared solutions to
needs.<br>
<br>
It's not just big business but big cities also are a problem as well as
a solution.<br>
<br>
[It's the Second Law of Thermodynamics that's the problem. <br>
Perhaps if we can cut the funding for its enforcement, it<br>
will just sort of recede into the dustbin of obsolescence?]<br>
<br>
The problem is not so much Government itself (yes it hurts to say so)
but<br>
rather it's the Perversion of Government and the Perversion of the Law<br>
such that the Many are bent to serve the desires of the Few.<br>
<br>
I perceive that the Few embrace the AGW/climate change concept as
another opportunity for<br>
further concentration of wealth and concentration of authority.
Authority<br>
concentrated is the power to gain more and more wealth.<br>
<br>
It is a pretty cool trick to harness the energies of those who champion
for the Many<br>
and pervert their activities into the service of the goals of the Few.
Predators<br>
have lotsa cool trix for snaring kids. Silly rabbi.<br>
<br>
Championing for a better environment is a lofty goal and a desirable
end. Thy keepers and owners hath<br>
not such ideals. They see every popular cause as a ripe plumpness to
be expertly massaged and milked<br>
for their benefit. Those with milk await the relief of their burdens.<br>
<br>
Those in power care not for history, data, or ideals. They dont give a
frank fuck (a "wan, eitolated [sic] damn",<br>
as "Fred Reed" noted) about you. But they are certainly willing to
(reluctantly) take on more and more authority so<br>
that they can improve their own lives while creating the illusion of
improving yours.<br>
They really do care,more than you think, about what you think.<br>
<br>
Hence war, hence too big to fail, hence bailouts (not for us), hence a
number of other<br>
evils too numinous to count.<br>
<br>
On 07/25/11 8:20, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4E2CB6E4.70101@illinois.edu" type="cite">
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I don't think there's any doubt that there are long-term climate
changes, including warming and cooling trends. And the historical
record seems clear that these trends have social effects. <br>
<br>
In Europe, the Medieval Warm Period (aka the "Medieval Climate
Optimum") - e.g, England was a major wine-producer in in the 12th &
13th centuries - was perhaps the most important factor in the great
cultural efflorescence of the High Middle Ages. It was reversed by the
climate changes of the 14th century (bad harvests, a Malthusian crisis,
and the conditions conducive to the spread of bubonic plague), which
brought the medieval mode of production to an end and led to the rise
of capitalism.<br>
<br>
It's also agreed that the Little Ice Age was a period of cooling that
occurred after the Medieval Warm Period. The term LIA was introduced by
François E. Matthes in 1939. It is conventionally defined as a period
extending from the 16th to the 19th centuries. NASA considers the term
to refer to a cold period between 1550 CE and 1850 CE and notes three
particularly cold intervals: one beginning about 1650, another about
1770, and the last in 1850, each separated by intervals of slight
warming. <br>
<br>
It also seems that we're in the midst of another warming trend. The
question is whether it's anthropogenic. Has industrialization added to
what may be a normal fluctuation? It would seem reasonable, but it some
sense it doesn't matter too much: we need to control industrial
pollution, the externalities of industrial production, and that can be
done only by concerted government action. Driving a Prius doesn't make
much difference, but neither does condemning the heretics who have
turned away from the great god AGW.<br>
<br>
Climatologists have only interpreted the world; the task is to change
it. <br>
<br>
<br>
On 7/24/11 6:15 PM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4E2CA776.1090801@pigs.ag" type="cite">
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I dont think it's a conspiracy, I think that it is Fraud.<br>
<br>
But thanks for the links.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 7/25/2011 7:02 AM, Morton K. Brussel wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CE67411F-B641-4712-8EEA-2215E48B6C62@illinois.edu"
type="cite">Read the IPCC report, or its summary. Another will be
coming out soon. Here are other sources, with data.
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/">http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/publications_and_data_reports.shtml">http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/publications_and_data_reports.shtml</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are many others, but deniers like you refuse to
accept the scientific data and their arguments. There is overwhelming
consensus on this from the climate/scientific community. It is not a
conspiracy. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And I have no idea what you are talking about ("same
cats") in your last paragraph. It's nonsense. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--mkb</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Jul 24, 2011, at 4:41 PM, E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Urbana is a
completely unprotected location on vast flat terrain<br>
with no buffering body of water nearby.<br>
<br>
There is good mixing of air with winds coming from all directions.<br>
Urbana appears to be a reasonable sample. <br>
<br>
Indeed it is only one point on the big grid, but it has lots of data, <br>
and one should see <i>something</i> if there is a major shift going on.<br>
<br>
After all, every cloudburst cyclone heatwave dryspell and blizzard<br>
is the result of "climate change" if one believes the media.<br>
<br>
Denier seems to suggest that belief in AGW (like that in GWB) is a
matter of faith.<br>
I would rather say I am not a denier but rather am unconvinced by the
lack of<br>
a thread of evidence. All the warping and woofing is not convincing me
that <br>
it's not all made up of whole cloth.<br>
<br>
The fray is relevant here because those same cats who gave us the
endless war,<br>
the end of democracy, and economic-financial terrorism want to bring us
<br>
embroidered eco-authoritarianism under the cloak of some general good.<br>
<br>
They have a motive.<br>
<br>
Where's the data?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/25/11 2:02, Morton K. Brussel wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:2D83C648-DE9C-4D08-88EC-CEC896EB8F9F@illinois.edu"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">It doesn't seem like anything dramatic is happening in these two plots, although they are somewhat hard for the interpretation of any trends, if any existed.
But the far more important point is that Urbana is but one point on the global map. No conclusions can be made from any one location. The global data on temperature and related events are conclusive that warming has been occurring, and, moreover, scientist studying the climate know there are physical reasons why.
I'm surprised you are (still?) a denier.
--Mort
On Jul 24, 2011, at 1:13 AM, E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森 wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Urbana is pretty much the center of the meterologic universe as judged by the meteorism that
typifies its city government. Thus it's temperature data can be used for global inferences about
climatic trends.
Urbana is the furthest northern point at which I ever domiciled, and I always felt as if there was nothing
between Urbana and the north pole except an ill-maintained barb-wire fence.
If there really were such a thing as global warming, it would have to be for the
benefit of Urbana's frozen few. The Urbana Water Survey has the daily temperature data
to tell for the asking all the way back to the Gay90's.
The plot below shows the daily minimum temperatures (T min)for
days below 10F (very cold days under my assumption of what is "cold").
<moz-screenshot-9.png>
My great-grandmother told me about the terrible winters of her childhood in the
late 19th century. 1977 and 1978 were truly awful for sure, but not the coldest it seems.
There might be some rough suggestion of periodicity, but one needs a few
hundred years more data to work it out clearly. The relatively mild winters
of the 1940 to 1970 were still pretty cold. One doesnt find any trend
suggesting a permanent reprieve from the ravages of those nasty Urbana winters.
*
The international media are suggesting that AGW is verified by the heat waves
that plague the United States. Below I present the incidence and intensity
of hot (>92F) days in Urbana. Keillor says that on really hot days the cats go to the basement
and put their feet in the air. Such data is not readily available and there could be many variables,
particularly since most cats dislike water, and do generate CO2 and other volatilities.
One has to make do with the available data.
<幻灯片1.JPG>
I was in-utero for most of 1954 but I don't recall my mother complaining about the heat,
although she did take me to the doctor because of my profuse perspiration which has
been a lifetime condition so far.
I have heard stories about 1936. A certain Mr. J.N. Irvin of Hamilton County
told me that it was so hot in 1936 that he and his brother used to dig
holes in the yard and sleep in the dust just to stay cool. The data supports his remembrance
and perhaps the behaviour as well. They didn't have electricity in Twigg Twp in '36
let alone AC or even Tang Dynasty fans for Anthropogenic Local Cooling.
They say that in Iowa it was so hot the children used to wet the bed to stay cool.
The inconvenient truth seems to be that there is no trend toward any sort of
warming as judged from Urbana other than the typical cycling progression of the seasons previously
observed by Enoch.
There is also a persistent lack of persistence of memory and maybe some soft clocks.
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