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Carl,<br>
Always room for repentance and the embrace of new values, I suppose.
But I'm not a priest and to me this smacks more of Tim's usual
pre-election maneuvering to triangulate middle-of-the-road voters
into his corner than an epiphany.<br>
<br>
And Tim should be worried. Wasn't Congress recently getting an
approval rating of something like 12%? That'll put religion in
almost any Congresscritter. So far, I've seen nothing that suggests
Tim should be returned to DC any more than any of the rest of them.
Better to wipe the slate clean and start over. It would be hard to
do worse -- and their replacements couldn't be more venal than the
present gang.<br>
<br>
And Tim, if you take him at his word (a few years back), is way
overdue to come home anyway, right?<br>
<br>
But that's just a single issue -- and I'm not a single issue voter.
On almost every other issue of importance to me, Tim comes up FAIL
Not necessarily an endorsement of whoever his opponent might be,
Tim's got an uphill battle in convincing me he'd be on my side more
than anyone else. And that's just if we get trapped in the usual
"less evil of two evils" choice. If I can't hold my nose and vote --
I just don't. Damned if I'm granting my consent to the likes of most
Illinois politicians. <br>
<br>
You're not suggesting I compromise my values to hold my nose to vote
"Tim for Peace," because it would be a slightly smaller compromise
on that than on everything else about him, are you? If so, I'm
really worried that the quality of our local curmudgeons is being
compromised by some warped desire to pick a winner, rather than hold
a principled, moral position.<br>
Mike Lehman<br>
<br>
On 9/29/2011 1:40 PM, C. G. ESTABROOK wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:5E09519A-EA34-4023-9CDC-C051C1279E7A@shout.net"
type="cite">We don't know about the state of his soul, Mike - his
sincerity or commitment - but we do know that for some time now
he's said he was wrong to vote for the invasions of Afghanistan
and Iraq, and - even more importantly - has consistently voted
against more money for war in the Mideast. He even joined Reps.
Kucinich & Paul et al. in a suit against the illegal attack on
Libya.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Aren't we trying to get the members of this government,
whatever their moral purity, to put an end to this criminal war?
Vietnam ended, not because we elected angels, but because the
same people who'd been there all along were forced to end it. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When I ran against Tim on the eve of the invasion of Iraq, I
condemned his apparent willingness to support it. During the
campaign, I met privately with Tim & his people (at his
invitation) to try to dissuade him from voting for the
"Authorization for the Use of Military Force against Iraq." But
the administration apparently sold him the yellow-cake story
("secret information"), & he voted for the AUMF.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>His subsequent declaration that he shouldn't have done so -
and even more his consistent votes against the Bush/Obama war in
the Mideast - shouldn't be set aside. Are we going to vote for
Democrats who "support the president" as he continues to expand
the drone attacks, the "special operations," the killing across
SW Asia and Africa? <br>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards, CGE</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Sep 29, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Mike Lehman wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Carl,<br>
35 years of experience with the duplicitous Tim - always
railing against things he's in fact supported at various
more politically convenient times -- doesn't convince me
he has much sincerity or commitment to his new, now
seemingly dovish position.<br>
Mike Lehman<br>
<br>
On 9/29/2011 10:37 AM, C. G. ESTABROOK wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:DBCADA15-6868-403A-8633-208733F65739@shout.net"
type="cite">That's an astonishing statement, Mike. Here
we spend ten years trying to convince the government to
cease its criminal wars, and when a congressman - no
better than he should be - comes around to the correct
point view, we dismiss it...?
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Sep 29, 2011, at 10:10 AM, Mike Lehman
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="background-color: #fff;"> <span
style="display:none"> </span>
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<p> A stopped clock is right twice a day.
That hardly rates a headline -- or a
Subject line -- in my book.<br>
Mike Lehman<br>
<br>
On 9/29/2011 10:06 AM, C. G. ESTABROOK
wrote: </p>
<blockquote
cite="mid:B75967DD-ACB9-45B0-B848-D85A74E1CAC4@shout.net"
type="cite"> Apparently similar in this
regard to his potential Democratic
opponents (whom he also resembles in
talking nonsense about the deficit). <br>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Sep 29, 2011, at 8:56 AM,
David Green wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:times
new roman, new york, times,
serif;font-size:12pt;">
<div><span>And also unwilling to
consider the implications re
Israel/Palestine.</span></div>
<div><br>
<blockquote
style="border-left-color:
rgb(16, 16,
255);border-left-width:
2px;border-left-style:
solid;">
<div style="font-family:
times new roman, new york,
times, serif;font-size:
12pt;">
<div style="font-family:
times new roman, new
york, times,
serif;font-size: 12pt;"><font
face="Arial" size="2"><b><span
style="font-weight:
bold;">From:</span></b>
C. G. ESTABROOK <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" moz="true" href="mailto:cge@shout.net">cge@shout.net</a>><br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:
bold;">To:</span></b>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
moz="true"
href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a><br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:
bold;">Cc:</span></b>
sf-core <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
moz="true"
href="mailto:sf-core@yahoogroups.com">sf-core@yahoogroups.com</a>><br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:
bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, September
29, 2011 8:51 AM<br>
<b><span
style="font-weight:
bold;">Subject:</span></b>
[Peace-discuss] Local
rep. right about
war...<br>
</font><br>
<div id="yiv79045151">
<div>[...but wrong
about Social
Security, Medicare,
and the deficit...
--CGE]</div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<b>Johnson stance on
war draws support</b>
<div
id="yiv79045151node-736076">
<div>Wed, 09/28/2011
- 9:03pm | Tom
Kacich</div>
<div>
<div align="">DECATUR
-- About two
years after he
first called for
the withdrawal
of U.S. troops
from Iraq and
Afghanistan,
U.S. Rep. Tim
Johnson,
R-Urbana, now
appears to be
gaining the
support of his
constituents.</div>
<div align="">Speaking
to about 100
people -- nearly
all white and
conservative --
at the Decatur
Public Library,
Johnson received
a burst of
applause
Wednesday
evening when he
again called for
an end to U.S.
military
involvement in
the Middle East.</div>
<div align="">Johnson
also suggested
gradually
raising the
retirement age
to strengthen
Social Security
and Medicare,
and said he was
willing to look
at revenue
measures, not
just budget
cuts, to reduce
the federal
deficit.</div>
<div align="">The
six-term
congressman
criticized
Democrats for
not being
willing to make
cuts in federal
spending and hit
Republicans for
supporting only
"cuts in
non-defense
discretionary
spending."</div>
<div align="">"That
is not
acceptable,
ladies and
gentlemen," said
Johnson. "I
understand there
are people in
here who are
going to
vehemently
disagree with me
and who believe
that every war
is a good war.
The reality is
that by the time
we will have
completed our
quote-unquote
mission -- and I
don't know what
the mission is,
ladies and
gentlemen -- we
will have spent
close to 4
trillion dollars
in those wars.</div>
<div align="">"We
cannot exclude
defense from the
cuts in dealing
with our
national debt."</div>
<div align="">Johnson
said he doesn't
believe his
constituents
"are one iota
safer because
we're losing
thousands of
American men and
women, and
hundreds of
thousands of
innocent
civilians in
Afghanistan and
Libya and Iraq."</div>
<div align="">"I
have
consistently
voted in
appropriation
after
appropriation
and bill after
bill to get out
of Iraq and
Afghanistan and
Libya," he said.
It was at that
point and during
other statements
about defense
spending that
Johnson received
his only
sustained
applause during
the meeting.</div>
<div align="">"We
can't afford it
in our men and
women's lives,
we can't afford
it in our
infrastructure,
and we can't
afford it
fiscally," he
said of the
wars.</div>
<div align="">Following
the meeting,
Johnson said he
was surprised by
the response.</div>
<div align="">"But
generally in the
public and even
among the
conservative
base, people are
starting to say,
why are we here?
Why are we
spending the
money? Why are
we allowing men
and women to be
killed for a
mission we
cannot define? I
think it's
critical to our
economic and
moral future
that we get out
tomorrow, and
that we don't
engage in some
new stupid war
the next time.
I'm just quoting
the president."</div>
<div align="">On
other issues,
Johnson said:</div>
<div align="">--
He thinks Social
Security and
Medicare can be
strengthened by
gradually
raising the
retirement age.</div>
<div align="">"To
prevent the
system from
going bankrupt,
there have to be
modest changes
for new workers
in the system,"
he said. "For
people who are
entering the
system tweaking
the age of
retirement, when
it has stayed
the same for
decades, makes
economic sense.
Relatively small
changes in the
retirement age
have a dramatic
effect on the
fiscal soundness
of Social
Security. I'm
not suggesting
we move the age
to 75, but
moving it to 67
1/2 over a
phased-in period
makes economic
sense and moral
sense."</div>
<div align="">He
also said he
wouldn't rule
out the need for
higher
contributions
into the system.</div>
<div align="">"I'm
not ruling
anything out but
what I'm ruling
in is the fact
that we have to
make
common-sense,
fair changes to
preserve the
safety net," he
said. "If we
don't do that
there's going to
be no Social
Security, no
Medicare for the
future."</div>
<div align="">--
He is not ruling
out the need for
revenue measures
to cut into the
federal budget
deficit.</div>
<div align="">"The
revenue side of
the equation has
to be examined.
There are a
number of tax
loopholes that
exist now, some
tax breaks that
are being phased
out that I
support phasing
out and others
that I don't. I
think we need to
look at the
whole picture. I
don't think you
can responsibly
look at the debt
crisis we face
without looking
at every aspect
of ways to solve
it."</div>
<div align=""><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
moz="true"
href="http://www.news-gazette.com/news/politics-and-government/2011-09-28/johnson-stance-war-draws-support.html">http://www.news-gazette.com/news/politics-and-government/2011-09-28/johnson-stance-war-draws-support.html</a></div>
<div align=""><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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list<br>
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<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
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