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    Carl,<br>
    35 years of experience with the duplicitous Tim - always railing
    against things he's in fact supported at various more politically
    convenient times -- doesn't convince me he has much sincerity or
    commitment to his new, now seemingly dovish position.<br>
    Mike Lehman<br>
    <br>
    On 9/29/2011 10:37 AM, C. G. ESTABROOK wrote:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:DBCADA15-6868-403A-8633-208733F65739@shout.net"
      type="cite">That's an astonishing statement, Mike.  Here we spend
      ten years trying to convince the government to cease its criminal
      wars, and when a congressman - no better than he should be - comes
      around to the correct point view, we dismiss it...?
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>
        <div>
          <div>On Sep 29, 2011, at 10:10 AM, Mike Lehman wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <blockquote type="cite">
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                style="display:none"> </span>
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                    <p> A stopped clock is right twice a day. That
                      hardly rates a headline -- or a Subject line -- in
                      my book.<br>
                      Mike Lehman<br>
                      <br>
                      On 9/29/2011 10:06 AM, C. G. ESTABROOK wrote: </p>
                    <blockquote
                      cite="mid:B75967DD-ACB9-45B0-B848-D85A74E1CAC4@shout.net"
                      type="cite"> Apparently similar in this regard to
                      his potential Democratic opponents (whom he also
                      resembles in talking nonsense about the deficit). <br>
                      <div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>On Sep 29, 2011, at 8:56 AM, David Green
                          wrote:</div>
                        <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div>
                            <div
                              style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:times
                              new roman, new york, times,
                              serif;font-size:12pt;">
                              <div><span>And also unwilling to consider
                                  the implications re Israel/Palestine.</span></div>
                              <div><br>
                                <blockquote style="border-left-color:
                                  rgb(16, 16, 255);border-left-width:
                                  2px;border-left-style: solid;">
                                  <div style="font-family: times new
                                    roman, new york, times,
                                    serif;font-size: 12pt;">
                                    <div style="font-family: times new
                                      roman, new york, times,
                                      serif;font-size: 12pt;"><font
                                        face="Arial" size="2"><b><span
                                            style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
                                        C. G. ESTABROOK <<a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          moz="true"
                                          href="mailto:cge@shout.net">cge@shout.net</a>><br>
                                        <b><span style="font-weight:
                                            bold;">To:</span></b> <a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          moz="true"
                                          href="mailto:peace-discuss@anti-war.net">peace-discuss@anti-war.net</a><br>
                                        <b><span style="font-weight:
                                            bold;">Cc:</span></b>
                                        sf-core <<a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          moz="true"
                                          href="mailto:sf-core@yahoogroups.com">sf-core@yahoogroups.com</a>><br>
                                        <b><span style="font-weight:
                                            bold;">Sent:</span></b>
                                        Thursday, September 29, 2011
                                        8:51 AM<br>
                                        <b><span style="font-weight:
                                            bold;">Subject:</span></b>
                                        [Peace-discuss] Local rep. right
                                        about war...<br>
                                      </font><br>
                                      <div id="yiv79045151">
                                        <div>[...but wrong about Social
                                          Security, Medicare, and the
                                          deficit...  --CGE]</div>
                                        <div><b><br>
                                          </b></div>
                                        <b>Johnson stance on war draws
                                          support</b>
                                        <div id="yiv79045151node-736076">
                                          <div>Wed, 09/28/2011 -
                                            9:03pm | Tom Kacich</div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div align="">DECATUR --
                                              About two years after he
                                              first called for the
                                              withdrawal of U.S. troops
                                              from Iraq and Afghanistan,
                                              U.S. Rep. Tim Johnson,
                                              R-Urbana, now appears to
                                              be gaining the support of
                                              his constituents.</div>
                                            <div align="">Speaking to
                                              about 100 people -- nearly
                                              all white and conservative
                                              -- at the Decatur Public
                                              Library, Johnson received
                                              a burst of applause
                                              Wednesday evening when he
                                              again called for an end to
                                              U.S. military involvement
                                              in the Middle East.</div>
                                            <div align="">Johnson also
                                              suggested gradually
                                              raising the retirement age
                                              to strengthen Social
                                              Security and Medicare, and
                                              said he was willing to
                                              look at revenue measures,
                                              not just budget cuts, to
                                              reduce the federal
                                              deficit.</div>
                                            <div align="">The six-term
                                              congressman criticized
                                              Democrats for not being
                                              willing to make cuts in
                                              federal spending and hit
                                              Republicans for supporting
                                              only "cuts in non-defense
                                              discretionary spending."</div>
                                            <div align="">"That is not
                                              acceptable, ladies and
                                              gentlemen," said Johnson.
                                              "I understand there are
                                              people in here who are
                                              going to vehemently
                                              disagree with me and who
                                              believe that every war is
                                              a good war. The reality is
                                              that by the time we will
                                              have completed our
                                              quote-unquote mission --
                                              and I don't know what the
                                              mission is, ladies and
                                              gentlemen -- we will have
                                              spent close to 4 trillion
                                              dollars in those wars.</div>
                                            <div align="">"We cannot
                                              exclude defense from the
                                              cuts in dealing with our
                                              national debt."</div>
                                            <div align="">Johnson said
                                              he doesn't believe his
                                              constituents "are one iota
                                              safer because we're losing
                                              thousands of American men
                                              and women, and hundreds of
                                              thousands of innocent
                                              civilians in Afghanistan
                                              and Libya and Iraq."</div>
                                            <div align="">"I have
                                              consistently voted in
                                              appropriation after
                                              appropriation and bill
                                              after bill to get out of
                                              Iraq and Afghanistan and
                                              Libya," he said. It was at
                                              that point and during
                                              other statements about
                                              defense spending that
                                              Johnson received his only
                                              sustained applause during
                                              the meeting.</div>
                                            <div align="">"We can't
                                              afford it in our men and
                                              women's lives, we can't
                                              afford it in our
                                              infrastructure, and we
                                              can't afford it fiscally,"
                                              he said of the wars.</div>
                                            <div align="">Following the
                                              meeting, Johnson said he
                                              was surprised by the
                                              response.</div>
                                            <div align="">"But generally
                                              in the public and even
                                              among the conservative
                                              base, people are starting
                                              to say, why are we here?
                                              Why are we spending the
                                              money? Why are we allowing
                                              men and women to be killed
                                              for a mission we cannot
                                              define? I think it's
                                              critical to our economic
                                              and moral future that we
                                              get out tomorrow, and that
                                              we don't engage in some
                                              new stupid war the next
                                              time. I'm just quoting the
                                              president."</div>
                                            <div align="">On other
                                              issues, Johnson said:</div>
                                            <div align="">-- He thinks
                                              Social Security and
                                              Medicare can be
                                              strengthened by gradually
                                              raising the retirement
                                              age.</div>
                                            <div align="">"To prevent
                                              the system from going
                                              bankrupt, there have to be
                                              modest changes for new
                                              workers in the system," he
                                              said. "For people who are
                                              entering the system
                                              tweaking the age of
                                              retirement, when it has
                                              stayed the same for
                                              decades, makes economic
                                              sense. Relatively small
                                              changes in the retirement
                                              age have a dramatic effect
                                              on the fiscal soundness of
                                              Social Security. I'm not
                                              suggesting we move the age
                                              to 75, but moving it to 67
                                              1/2 over a phased-in
                                              period makes economic
                                              sense and moral sense."</div>
                                            <div align="">He also said
                                              he wouldn't rule out the
                                              need for higher
                                              contributions into the
                                              system.</div>
                                            <div align="">"I'm not
                                              ruling anything out but
                                              what I'm ruling in is the
                                              fact that we have to make
                                              common-sense, fair changes
                                              to preserve the safety
                                              net," he said. "If we
                                              don't do that there's
                                              going to be no Social
                                              Security, no Medicare for
                                              the future."</div>
                                            <div align="">-- He is not
                                              ruling out the need for
                                              revenue measures to cut
                                              into the federal budget
                                              deficit.</div>
                                            <div align="">"The revenue
                                              side of the equation has
                                              to be examined. There are
                                              a number of tax loopholes
                                              that exist now, some tax
                                              breaks that are being
                                              phased out that I support
                                              phasing out and others
                                              that I don't. I think we
                                              need to look at the whole
                                              picture. I don't think you
                                              can responsibly look at
                                              the debt crisis we face
                                              without looking at every
                                              aspect of ways to solve
                                              it."</div>
                                            <div align=""><a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                moz="true"
href="http://www.news-gazette.com/news/politics-and-government/2011-09-28/johnson-stance-war-draws-support.html">http://www.news-gazette.com/news/politics-and-government/2011-09-28/johnson-stance-war-draws-support.html</a></div>
                                            <div align=""><br>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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